Prevalence of 50-50 custody

[rjthefirst]

If you think 50/50 custody is the norm you are very deluded.

There is only one state in the country right now with shared parenting laws, and Title IV is still in effect meaning - the courts are incentivized to award majority of custody to one party to Maximus child support.

 

I agree w the poster who said you have to go scorched earth if you even want anything resembling a fair outcome.

Edited June 29, 2018 by rjthefirst

[Striver]

Just a pragmatic comment. Is it possible that your partner is having this fight over the $5K a year? If she needs it you might be pushing her into a corner and wondering why she won't back down.

 

If you offered that to her even if you had 50-50 custody would that make a difference? If nothing else the courts will see this as a sign of your intention to share the children outside of the financial implications.

 

The ex has access to far more money. Access. She is not working. Could work, certainly part time. I would not even see that money, would be all hers, since I am imputing income.

 

I don't know, if a court was looking at that, that my side would be taken at this point. Even though I work, she doesn't, she is married, has access to family money, could work without too much trouble. Money from her H or family doesn't help me.

 

When we were married, xW was insistent on doing the finances. My attorney made an offhand comment about how things were structured, as it looked like she did the finances with the presumption that she might take off some day. Ex is a shark.

[Striver]

If you think 50/50 custody is the norm you are very deluded.

There is only one state in the country right now with shared parenting laws, and Title IV is still in effect meaning - the courts are incentivized to award majority of custody to one party to Maximus child support.

 

I agree w the poster who said you have to go scorched earth if you even want anything resembling a fair outcome.

 

Title IV never came up in my case. My ex never applied for aid, she has no need. In my state, support is auto-deducted from my paycheck, consequently harder to evade.

 

My state does have soft shared custody guidelines. It's ambiguous, but better than nothing.

 

I'm sure 50-50 is easier to get if:

 

Wife is working full time and kids are in day care anyway

Kids are in school full time

Wife does not contest

 

None of that applied to me. I was not scorched earth. I did hold firm on not going any lower than 6-8 and got it. The soft guidelines of the state did help there. Better than them not being there.

[rjthefirst]

Title IV never came up in my case. My ex never applied for aid, she has no need. In my state, support is auto-deducted from my paycheck, consequently harder to evade.

 

My state does have soft shared custody guidelines. It's ambiguous, but better than nothing.

 

I'm sure 50-50 is easier to get if:

 

Wife is working full time and kids are in day care anyway

Kids are in school full time

Wife does not contest

 

None of that applied to me. I was not scorched earth. I did hold firm on not going any lower than 6-8 and got it. The soft guidelines of the state did help there. Better than them not being there.

 

 

 

Title IV is part of the social security act and is a federal law. It affects all states.

 

Are you from Kentucky? That’s the only state right now w shared parenting legislation.

[Striver]

Title IV is part of the social security act and is a federal law. It affects all states.

 

Are you from Kentucky? That’s the only state right now w shared parenting legislation.

 

I'm in Wisconsin.

 

This is from a website and what I saw everywhere:

 

"Under most circumstances, when a court sets a parenting schedule in a placement order, it is required to set a schedule that allows the children to have regularly occurring, meaningful periods of physical placement with each parent that maximizes the amount of time the child may spend with each parent."

 

That is what I mean by a soft guideline. 50-50 with extenuating circumstances blah blah blah.

[AMarriedMan]

The situation with the money is "perfectly legal." I wouldn't call it fair. I can live with the money. The personal stuff, the mistrust I have now, is probably worse. I don't know what to do with that. I do not want to hate women. But I feel I know too much of their true nature now, as it's expressed in the year of 2018.

 

Who says you have to hate anybody? Anger at first is a normal emotion. But once you get over that you can quite calmly draw your conclusions about what you have learned from your interactions with women and adjust your lifestyle accordingly.

 

Men and women are not put in this world to make each other happy but continue the species. It's enough for young people to harbor illusions, get together and have children. Nature doesn't care if their life is about suffering silently thereafter.

 

There are few things about life that put it into sharper focus that we are little else but puppets of our DNA than this whole reproduction business and everything that has to do with it. People whose psychological makeup is such that they genuinely want none of anything associated with it and draw happiness from other things are the ultimate winners. Of course, such people are dead ends of evolution which is why they are so rare.

Edited July 14, 2018 by AMarriedMan

[Striver]

Who says you have to hate anybody? Anger at first is a normal emotion. But once you get over that you can quite calmly draw your conclusions about what you have learned from your interactions with women and adjust your lifestyle accordingly.

 

Men and women are not put in this world to make each other happy but continue the species. It's enough for young people to harbor illusions, get together and have children. Nature doesn't care if their life is about suffering silently thereafter.

 

There are few things about life that put it into sharper focus that we are little else but puppets of our DNA than this whole reproduction business and everything that has to do with it. People whose psychological makeup is such that they genuinely want none of anything associated with it and draw happiness from other things are the ultimate winners. Of course, such people are dead ends of evolution which is why they are so rare.

 

We aren't salmon, though. Once born, children need quite a bit of physical and emotional care before they get to the illusions-get together-have children point.

 

One of the consequences of children of divorce is that the illusions are shattered before the other two happen. The modeling from prior generations isn't there. I believe I have seen statistics that bear this out. I know with my former in-laws, one of her uncles was divorced. He and his exW both remarried. Three children. One of those those children had two kids, divorce, lesbian relationship that also failed. Another divorce with no kids. Another, no divorce, but didn't marry until 40s. The illusions matter.

 

For me, yeah, I know the nature of women better now. Doesn't help my relationships. I would rather have the illusions. I have concluded I need to get my needs met in some sort of LTR. I will need to try again, and again if necessary. If I am happier in a LTR than I am out of it, I need to do it for my own health.

 

Are we better off in the current free for all than when society did more to enforce the illusions? Probably not. I don't control that though, and it won't change, if it ever does, until long after I am gone and not dealing with the issue. So I need to make the best choices from what is out there for me. That really isn't any different than before I was ever married.

[AMarriedMan]

We aren't salmon, though. Once born, children need quite a bit of physical and emotional care before they get to the illusions-get together-have children point.

 

Sure they do. What about never having kids? Then you don't have to worry about those things at all. What the statistics bear out is that a lot of fence sitters about that are leaning towards never having kids these days.

 

One of the consequences of children of divorce is that the illusions are shattered before the other two happen. The modeling from prior generations isn't there. I believe I have seen statistics that bear this out. I know with my former in-laws, one of her uncles was divorced. He and his exW both remarried. Three children. One of those those children had two kids, divorce, lesbian relationship that also failed. Another divorce with no kids. Another, no divorce, but didn't marry until 40s. The illusions matter.

 

Yes, the illusions motivate us to go about the business of reproduction and everything it entails. In my generation (mid-forties) divorce is rampant. About a half of my closest friends have gone through divorce already or have had their common law marriages end. Three of them came from a families of divorce.

 

The odds are akin to Russian roulette. If you're not crazy about having kids why bother. My daughter is awesome but if she'd never have been born, I wouldn't miss her.

 

For me, yeah, I know the nature of women better now. Doesn't help my relationships. I would rather have the illusions. I have concluded I need to get my needs met in some sort of LTR. I will need to try again, and again if necessary. If I am happier in a LTR than I am out of it, I need to do it for my own health.

 

Sounds tragic. In order to feel whole again, you need to risk going through another train crash.

 

Are we better off in the current free for all than when society did more to enforce the illusions? Probably not. I don't control that though, and it won't change, if it ever does, until long after I am gone and not dealing with the issue. So I need to make the best choices from what is out there for me. That really isn't any different than before I was ever married.

 

My marriage has long since turned into the kind if quiet desperation Oscar Wilde must have been talking about. In a way, walking away now or soon would be a relief. But I'm afraid as long as we have an underage child together, getting a divorce would not make us argue much less but give us new, difficult problems to argue about and it would be expensive. Also, I think we are better parents together than separately because we have such different strengths and weaknesses as parents.

 

But if things don't get better before our daughter is off to college, and I don't think they will, I'll be out as well. If and when that happens, I will spend the rest of my life alone blessed with having lost all the illusions. I can't even look at attractive women any longer without wondering what type of crap they would put me through if I got together with them. Now, it could be that I'm the toxic one but that's all the more reason for me to abstain from relationships forever.

[Striver]

Sure they do. What about never having kids? Then you don't have to worry about those things at all. What the statistics bear out is that a lot of fence sitters about that are leaning towards never having kids these days.

 

Then the world will belong to the Amish and the Muslims. The cultures that can pop out and raise the kids.

 

 

Yes, the illusions motivate us to go about the business of reproduction and everything it entails. In my generation (mid-forties) divorce is rampant. About a half of my closest friends have gone through divorce already or have had their common law marriages end. Three of them came from a families of divorce.

 

The odds are akin to Russian roulette. If you're not crazy about having kids why bother. My daughter is awesome but if she'd never have been born, I wouldn't miss her.

 

I'm a little older than you (53.) I would agree, from what I've seen, that it gets worse the younger you go. Most of my relatives are older, they mostly escaped it. A younger person in secular USA, whole different issue.

 

Sounds tragic. In order to feel whole again, you need to risk going through another train crash.

 

I'm making a realistic assessment of who I am. I know they can leave now. I am too much of a loner to have a great friendship network. Too late to fix that now. I reach out as much as I can, but I am not going to fool myself.

 

When I came out of the D, I didn't really sleep around much. Had no appeal. Had a GF, that thing is currently in limbo. Tried to protect myself and it hurts like hell anyway.

 

My marriage has long since turned into the kind if quiet desperation Oscar Wilde must have been talking about. In a way, walking away now or soon would be a relief. But I'm afraid as long as we have an underage child together, getting a divorce would not make us argue much less but give us new, difficult problems to argue about and it would be expensive. Also, I think we are better parents together than separately because we have such different strengths and weaknesses as parents.

 

But if things don't get better before our daughter is off to college, and I don't think they will, I'll be out as well. If and when that happens, I will spend the rest of my life alone blessed with having lost all the illusions. I can't even look at attractive women any longer without wondering what type of crap they would put me through if I got together with them. Now, it could be that I'm the toxic one but that's all the more reason for me to abstain from relationships forever.

 

Your experience is probably different than mine. I was a loner, married at about 40. Marriage was fine. xW and I still get along fine. Parenting is fine.

It was just selfishness and Machivellianism on her part. She had a friend who was available at the time we married. Likes him more than she liked me. But he was a commitmentphobe, wouldn't give her the marriage and kids. I did. Then he decided he was willing to be a stepdad. So she left me for him. She stuck the landing, it was an ace performance. She's presumably happy, I'm depressed.

[AMarriedMan]

Then the world will belong to the Amish and the Muslims. The cultures that can pop out and raise the kids.

 

The Muslim birthrate is crashing, too. Modernization and urbanization are killing birthrates everywhere. The world will never belong to the breeders. It will always belong to those with the money and the best guns. Technological development is accelerating. Jobs will be gone, too.

 

I'm a little older than you (53.) I would agree, from what I've seen, that it gets worse the younger you go. Most of my relatives are older, they mostly escaped it. A younger person in secular USA, whole different issue.

 

Yep.

 

I'm making a realistic assessment of who I am. I know they can leave now. I am too much of a loner to have a great friendship network. Too late to fix that now. I reach out as much as I can, but I am not going to fool myself.

 

When I came out of the D, I didn't really sleep around much. Had no appeal. Had a GF, that thing is currently in limbo. Tried to protect myself and it hurts like hell anyway.

 

I see. You won't be having kids any longer anyway so you wouldn't be risking as much as you would if you were younger.

 

Your experience is probably different than mine. I was a loner, married at about 40. Marriage was fine. xW and I still get along fine. Parenting is fine.

It was just selfishness and Machivellianism on her part. She had a friend who was available at the time we married. Likes him more than she liked me. But he was a commitmentphobe, wouldn't give her the marriage and kids. I did. Then he decided he was willing to be a stepdad. So she left me for him. She stuck the landing, it was an ace performance. She's presumably happy, I'm depressed.

 

You were used as breeding stock and a workhorse. What I'm wondering is what that commitmentphobic other guy sees in being a stepdad.

[Striver]

You were used as breeding stock and a workhorse. What I'm wondering is what that commitmentphobic other guy sees in being a stepdad.

 

What does he get? Sex? A nicer home than his apartment? He had been in a seven year relationship that was ending when I met him, before I married xW, because he wouldn't have a family with his woman. I don't know how much of a player he was recently, old and fat.

 

xW obviously calls all of the shots in that household, though she actually needs him, because she doesn't work and he won't be paying child support if they split up. So he has that going for him.

[AMarriedMan]

What does he get? Sex? A nicer home than his apartment? He had been in a seven year relationship that was ending when I met him, before I married xW, because he wouldn't have a family with his woman. I don't know how much of a player he was recently, old and fat.

 

xW obviously calls all of the shots in that household, though she actually needs him, because she doesn't work and he won't be paying child support if they split up. So he has that going for him.

 

I assume that nicer home is partly paid for with your child support money. I still don't think this is a good deal for him financially because your xW does not work. He is probably getting sex because otherwise supporting your xW wouldn't make any sense.

 

Do you know if he's in good terms with your kids or merely tolerated? If he gets along with them really well and develops a good relationship with them, the downside of his situation is that if he and your xW and split up, he has no rights whatsoever with regards to the kids.

[Striver]

I assume that nicer home is partly paid for with your child support money. I still don't think this is a good deal for him financially because your xW does not work. He is probably getting sex because otherwise supporting your xW wouldn't make any sense.

 

Do you know if he's in good terms with your kids or merely tolerated? If he gets along with them really well and develops a good relationship with them, the downside of his situation is that if he and your xW and split up, he has no rights whatsoever with regards to the kids.

 

The kids are too young to really know what is going on, they just accept it. Maybe blowback down the road if I am not doing well and they perceive him to be the cause. They have an awareness now that he is the reason the marriage broke up, but haven't put it together more than that.

 

He does not come to a lot of kid functions when I am there. A handful. Her parents come to those more than he does.

 

They must be doing okay financially. She could work, just choosing not to. She has a hobby business that she has some fantasy will bring in more than the few thousand it does now. I impute her income for the child support, so she could get a part time job and keep all of that and the child support.

 

She also has a lot of family money coming her way, inheritance. Parents have a lot of money and will help out the kids with stuff. Mine can't do that. Really her parents help her too much, and she does not respect them deep down. Part of the issue why she could pull off the divorce.

 

This guy was apparently heavily entwined into my ex's social world. When I told my former sister in law what was going down, sister in law said that the night she met her husband, this guy hit on her. Good Lord.

 

My ex is too tied to her parents and looks backward a lot. I suppose with the money coming to her she does not need to challenge herself. I don't think she ever would have cheated on me with someone new. She doesn't make new friends. This guy makes complete sense. Someone from her past.

 

I don't think they were physically intimate before the ex blew up the marriage. Clearly an emotional affair. He was sending hundreds of emails about her hobby business, trying to "help."

 

My guess is his perspective was that he'd turned down family with his long term girlfriend and was feeling the consequences of that, regretting it. xW was there with resources, friendship, and step-family.

 

Looking backward is pretty common after people get to a certain age. I get the appeal. Something is difficult, let's retreat to the simpler time. I know of at least one woman where that would be the primary appeal for me. I knew her before I met my ex. She was married then, divorced now. Maybe feels better than some random divorced woman.

 

I need to move forward. Probably need to couple up. Just the way it is. I go to my kids' functions, and I am almost always the only single parent there. I wonder if the other long term single parents just stop coming to those as much. I am getting worn down by it myself. I know some of the couples there are not first marriages. Like you said, if #2 blows up it's less expensive because no kids. It comes down to the best choice for me in my remaining years, my days, how do I want to spend my time.

[AMarriedMan]

 

(...)

 

I need to move forward. Probably need to couple up. Just the way it is. I go to my kids' functions, and I am almost always the only single parent there. I wonder if the other long term single parents just stop coming to those as much. I am getting worn down by it myself. I know some of the couples there are not first marriages. Like you said, if #2 blows up it's less expensive because no kids. It comes down to the best choice for me in my remaining years, my days, how do I want to spend my time.

 

That's a pretty thorough explanation. I get it.

 

I'm usually the one at our kid's functions because my wife often doesn't have time to come. She does but much of the time I'm the only one there. She's at the most important ones but I'm often the only adult from our family at PTA meetings.

[Jim D]

Virginia passed a law that took effect on July 1 that required judges to "consider" joint custody in every case. That's how far we are from things always being equitable. Sure, sometimes it came out 50-50 in some circumstances with some judges, but I saw this quote in one of the articles about the law change:

Virginia’s new law requires the court to formally consider joint/shared custody on par with sole custody. While some might argue that Virginia’s statutes already allow for such a consideration, the truth is that approximately 85% of the time, sole or primary custody is still awarded.