Boss Kicks Chair

[leon123]

This is a situation that sparked a great sense of hurt and some anger, but mostly pity for how insensitive a business owner can be.

 

This is a 110M$ manufacturing company with aspirations of becoming much bigger.

 

I am a very experienced executive manager and technical professional.

 

The setting was a meeting with business owners, myself as a VP, a few middle managers, and an outside company we contracted for a very important capital project.

 

I have been leading a team in working with this company to co-develop a new technology over the last year. I know most everything about the technology, but nearly not as much as the outside company since this is their specialty. However, I have had to work with them to problem solve, evaluate their solutions, share concepts, share technical information, etc. if the technology doesn’t work or if their are people that for whatever reason take exception, then it is going to be on me so I take this assignment very seriously and have a strong plan.

 

As we were brainstorming today and another team member on our side had a basic question, I answered it because it was very simple. There were other more difficult subjects that the outside company answered.

 

However, the owner of the company kicked my chair pretty hard and told me to let them answer the question. This never happened to me in business over my 35-year career and I find it totally offensive.

 

This person has a history of being verbally abusive and shifting blame on others. Engineers instances to keep people working against each other for reasons I don’t really understand.

 

I am looking for any feedback as to how other professionals would feel if it happened to them, any insight on what my next steps should be.

 

It is quite hurtful because I really put myself out for the company and always find a way to make things work.

[preraph]

That was really unprofessional and uncalled for. He could just as easily spoken up and said, Here, let me take that. Did anyone see it besides you? If you tell your boss, it may be that he will feel the need to put someone else in there doing what you're doing with them, and frankly, that might be best. I mean, sounds like this sullied the relationship. But if others saw, then maybe you need to see what the scuttlebutt on it is. Could he have felt by answering you were taking credit for something he and his team did? Otherwise, not sure why he'd do it. I guess you can wait and see how he treats you now that he's done that, if he tries to be nice or act like nothing happened or is hateful and take it from there. But I mean, sounds like, if I'm not mistaken, your company hired that company for this project? If so, he ought to be careful he doesn't make someone mad.

[amaysngrace]

I don't know what I would do but I do know I wouldn't sit next to him again.

[newlywedder]

That does sound quite unprofessional. I would bring up the matter with him and ask if he could let you know what types of questions he wants to answer in the future. Tell him you are just putting yourself out there for his company and want to help any way you can.

[thefooloftheyear]

Speaking as a long term boss, one of the more endearing quality of my people is a thick skin...Owning and running a business is tough and most will never see that side of it...I've never kicked someones chair, but I have thrown shyt across the room and a variety of other things that some might find abhorrent..

 

You are a man, no? Don't make a mountain out of a molehill...I highly doubt it was anything personal...

 

TFY

[Mr. Lucky]

You are a man, no? Don't make a mountain out of a molehill...I highly doubt it was anything personal...

 

TFY

 

While I'm not sure what the OP's gender has to do with it, I agree the implied "hurt and anger" is an over-reaction.

 

I once had a supervisor ball up a piece of paper and throw it at me in a meeting which, since I wasn't looking, hit me in the side of the head. He was actually more embarrassed than I and I realized it was simply a misguided attempt at humor.

 

I'd guess your kick was a similar gesture gone bad. Pretty tame stuff, let it go...

 

Mr. Lucky

[bathtub-row]

I think it was a really crappy way to behave. I don’t care if you’re a male or female, that was an unprofessional thing to do to anyone, ESPECIALLY from the owner of a company.

[thefooloftheyear]

There is a gender difference...

 

I've slapped male workers on the back when they did a good job, or if I was just messing with them...Among other things...The thought to lay a hand on a female employee never crossed my mind..Slap them on the back?

 

A woman would view this move in a completely different way, IME...

 

In this case, a guy should be able to roll with this...Like I said, in no way do I see this as personal..Have we gotten so fragile that a kick of a chair would elicit such mental turmoil?? Wow...

 

TFY

[leon123]

You have to understand that building a significant company in today’s day in age requires a professional atmosphere to attract, retain and develop highly skilled key employees. If you want to operate without a sense of professionalism, what other behaviors become compromised. Loyalty, truthfulness. It is all related. Oh, by the way, our HR department would fire someone for doing this because of the liability the company risks. Believe me, the way people behave toward each other sets a tone and culture that can be positive or negative. It sounds like you make an excuse for your behavior because you can’t control your emotions.

 

As a USA SOCOM veteran, we never treated each other in disrespectful ways and our job was to manage violence. But, we were a united team that brought death and devastation to our enemies. Not many people understand that or have seen it. Having said that we showed a common decency in everything we did. We just happened to have a difficult job.

[thefooloftheyear]

You have to understand that building a significant company in today’s day in age requires a professional atmosphere to attract, retain and develop highly skilled key employees. If you want to operate without a sense of professionalism, what other behaviors become compromised. Loyalty, truthfulness. It is all related. Oh, by the way, our HR department would fire someone for doing this because of the liability the company risks. Believe me, the way people behave toward each other sets a tone and culture that can be positive or negative. It sounds like you make an excuse for your behavior because you can’t control your emotions.

 

As a USA SOCOM veteran, we never treated each other in disrespectful ways and our job was to manage violence. But, we were a united team that brought death and devastation to our enemies. Not many people understand that or have seen it. Having said that we showed a common decency in everything we did. We just happened to have a difficult job.

 

 

Say what you will...

 

I am a Chief and you an Indian...Period..Walk in those shoes and then talk..Don't tell me what I don't understand...YOU don't understand..

 

30 years and never a lawsuit or even an inquiry...SO whatever, man...

 

My brother works for one of the most successful billionaires in the world and widely respected for building one of the most powerful companies in his industry..I'd look like a Boy Scout compared to him...Also served as one of the highest political offices some deem more difficult than POTUS...I am sure you would call some of the things my brother has relayed to me as unprofessional and mean spirited, too..Tell me again how I don't understand...

 

Here is what you don't understand...IME, people that whine go nowhere in life...They sit around and complain about relatively nothing, while others let stuff roll off their back and step over the whiners on the ladder of life...

 

Your results may vary..

 

 

TFY

[bathtub-row]

I was very close to the owner of a very significant business for many years and I never once witnessed him treating anyone in the way OP has described. And if he ever heard of anyone doing it, he would’ve been all over that person. Not to say he didn’t pressure people when they weren’t performing or even jump down their throats when they did something incredibly stupid, but he would’ve never dreamed of what is described here. That act was a type of physical threat and a form of bullying. Not appropriate.

 

I’ve worked around entrepreneurs and executives all my life. I’ve never once seen any of them behave this way. Most company owners and executives are cool headed and aren’t easily ruffled. Trump is exceptionally emotional but I doubt you’d ever see even him kicking someone’s chair. He typically mows people down with words. Not great, either, but the physical stuff in the workplace is just odd.

[d0nnivain]

However, the owner of the company kicked my chair pretty hard and told me to let them answer the question. This never happened to me in business over my 35-year career and I find it totally offensive.

 

 

I think the boss was trying to get your attention but overestimated the force. He probably intended a subtle physical touch to alert you without disrupting the flow of the meeting. I have placed my hand in a stop motion, barely off the table in front of somebody during a meeting, when I was in the senior roll & I didn't want that person to speak for whatever reason, mostly because there was somebody else who I wanted to hear from more.

 

Here, especially if your boss was paying this outside vendor to deliver, he might have wanted an assurance that the vendor knew the answer to the simple Q. He probably already knew that you knew. He hired you & employs you. He knows your skills sets. He may have wanted to assure himself that he was getting the expertise he was paying for from the other company. Plus he has access to you all the time but not them.

 

Yes, it could have been handled better but I don't see it as bullying.

 

I also agree with fooloftheyear: Me chief, you Indian. When you sign the front of somebody's paycheck you can tell me how to behave in my own company. I'm not talking about being discriminatory or illegal but it's my company. I get to be impolite if I want to. That may have market effects that preclude me from retaining talent but that is my risk to take.

Edited June 13, 2018 by d0nnivain

[Art_Critic]

Yes, it could have been handled better but I don't see it as bullying.

 

I also agree with fooloftheyear: Me chief, you Indian. When you sign the front of somebody's paycheck you can tell me how to behave in my own company. I'm not talking about being discriminatory or illegal but it's my company. I get to be impolite if I want to. That may have market effects that preclude me from retaining talent but that is my risk to take.

 

I agree with you both, as long as the action wasn't something that could be considered assault (like picking up the chair and hitting him with it) the rest is on the owner.

His company, his rules, his playground...

 

That doesn't make it right however.. just makes it so that an action such as kicking the chair and piping in is an action where the person just has to suck it up and be glad he gets a paycheck.

 

I also would wonder what else was on the owners mind to make him do that.. there is more to the story.. for example maybe this was not a once and done type of deal, maybe the thread starter has been on the owners radar for what he might consider overstepping and he was trying to reel it in.. so to speak.

 

Now that was all said.. if the owner keeps doing this type of thing to the thread starter then he might think about finding other work or think about digging into what is behind the action.

[d0nnivain]

Why employ a person if you intend to stifle their opinion and input? Why not just fire them if you don't expect them to have a voice and speak their truth?

 

Because I wanted to hear from the specialized vendor I hired who I am paying more to solve the problem.

 

Somebody else's truth has no place in my business. Objective facts & results matter.

 

Plus I didn't hear the OP complaining that the boss wanted to hear from the vendor. I only head the OP complaining about the physical way the boss communicated what I saw as that desire, by kicking the chair. Chair kicking is wrong. Preferring that expensive vendor with the specialized expertise show off those skills in a joint meeting is not demeaning to the employee or an abuse of power.

[d0nnivain]

Any boss can convey a message with diplomacy and respect.

 

Kicking a chair an employee is sitting in while they are speaking is blatantly disrespectful.

 

 

It warrants a private conversation with the one who decided kicking the chair was ok. It's not ok and the OP should say so.

 

Then we agree.

 

My point was the boss wanted to hear from the vendor which is the boss' choice.

 

Kicking the chair was the wrong way to convey that desire but the desire was nevertheless legit.

[bathtub-row]

Saying the boss can do as he/she pleases and you’re the employee who should be grateful to have a paycheck is along the same lines of a man saying he has a right to have sex with his wife whenever he wants, or a parent who thinks they can torment their child because he/she has nowhere else to turn.

 

The OP said nothing about the kicking possibly being more forceful than intended. I’m working on the assumption that it was very deliberate. If it wasn't, then that’s a very different story.

[d0nnivain]

Saying the boss can do as he/she pleases and you’re the employee who should be grateful to have a paycheck is along the same lines of a man saying he has a right to have sex with his wife whenever he wants, or a parent who thinks they can torment their child because he/she has nowhere else to turn.

 

The OP said nothing about the kicking possibly being more forceful than intended. I’m working on the assumption that it was very deliberate. If it wasn't, then that’s a very different story.

 

And I'm working on the assumption that the force was an accident.

 

I didn't say that the boss can do as he/she pleases in all instances. I said the boss can chose to listen to different people in a different order & can tell a subordinate to be quiet in a meeting. If the boss always tells all women, or people of color or some other protected classification to be quiet, that is discriminatory but in general to demand that an employee be quiet while the paid vendor is speaking is well within the boss's right. If the employee feels belittled or undervalued the employee can get a job elsewhere or start a competitor company.

[bathtub-row]

And I'm working on the assumption that the force was an accident.

 

I didn't say that the boss can do as he/she pleases in all instances. I said the boss can chose to listen to different people in a different order & can tell a subordinate to be quiet in a meeting. If the boss always tells all women, or people of color or some other protected classification to be quiet, that is discriminatory but in general to demand that an employee be quiet while the paid vendor is speaking is well within the boss's right. If the employee feels belittled or undervalued the employee can get a job elsewhere or start a competitor company.

 

Someone else made that comment. That wasn’t directed at you.

[bathtub-row]

Or the employee can simply tell the chair kicker that what they did felt disrespectful.

 

Call it what it is... be honest.

 

I hope OP is willing to say these things to the dreaded chair kicker.

 

The dreaded chair kicker is the owner of the company and probably thinks he has the right to do what he did; in other words, talking to him will most likely have little effect, and could potentially backfire. If this is the boss’s usual MO, the OP should probably just look for another job.

[leon123]

This is not a situation of the vendor explaining a system that they were totally responsible for. It was co-developed and the questions I responded to were the basic things that we did on our side. One of the issues is that the boss has no idea of how technology is engineered and tends to trivialize what his engineers are capable of. The vendor, although well skilled in numerous areas, would have not been able to adapt to our needs without the ingenuity of our engineers.

 

The bully mentality goes along with thinking that you can beat up the vendor enough to get them to do what you want. Decisions are based off opinions and not scientific analysis.

 

We have had 4 engineers resign in the last year because they feel blamed for all problems and not get recognition when they deserve it. Engineers are a necessary evil. It goes on and on...

 

BTW, it should be noted that many vendors have told me that our company is difficult to work with.

 

I might also point out that the owner will orchestrate situations regarding liability if we receive a big enough claim. No one really wants to know the difficult issues. They just want you to make them go away. And they pay you to make them go away.

[leon123]

The dreaded chair kicker is the owner of the company and probably thinks he has the right to do what he did; in other words, talking to him will most likely have little effect, and could potentially backfire. If this is the boss’s usual MO, the OP should probably just look for another job.

 

 

Well said, I have concluded that and will be looking for other employment opportunities. I have worked for this company for ten years and have made them a ton of money and got them out of some sticky liability issues with innovative thinking and problem solving.

 

This was the last straw.

[d0nnivain]

leon123

 

Then you have a pattern of a bad boss. Talking to this person won't change the behavior & will most likely get you fired. It becomes up to you to decide if you want to continue working for the company.

 

While discrimination isn't tolerated, equal opportunity A-holes who are horrible to everyone regardless of race, creed, gender etc are free to act like jerks, as long as they are jerks to everyone. The law doesn't regulate bad manners or require politeness. It only requires that employees not be singled out based on their membership in a protected class.

[bathtub-row]

Well said, I have concluded that and will be looking for other employment opportunities. I have worked for this company for ten years and have made them a ton of money and got them out of some sticky liability issues with innovative thinking and problem solving.

 

This was the last straw.

 

Good decision!

 

I worked for an attorney once who was a complete loon. In the first 6 mos I was there, 5 people up and quit on her. A few months later, I did the same thing. It’s not worth your peace of mind being around people like this.

[Mr. Lucky]

You go directly to the person who kicked your chair and tell them if they do that again you plan to immediately embarrass them in public and punch them in the face.

 

I hope you're exaggerating for effect, something the OP's boss may have been guilty of also.

 

Punching your boss in the face is not a sound strategy, either for this job or the one you'd hope to get to replace it...

 

Mr. Lucky

[ChatroomHero]

The boss was not professional, but it happens. I think it indicates either he is just one to snap and act like that, or in your case it seems it was more or less the first time he actually embarrassed you, my guess is he might probably be annoyed with you over your meeting interjections over time and it built up until he snapped.

 

 

If you honestly look at it, were you trying to show your knowledge of the project and value by answering a question or questions you didn't need to, but felt you should force a "contribution"? I think if you forced a contribution, it was probably not the first time and the boss is getting tired of you "proving your worth" in meetings.

 

 

Here's how to tell...were you the main person that should have the answer or one of the main people? What I mean is if it was a question about project time lines and you manage the project and generally have as much or more discussion/info about the timeline than the rest of the team, your boss was in the wrong and that's on him.

 

 

If you're in a meeting and he asks a question the number of steel beams required to finish the job and the guy that handles steel beams is there but you pipe up and say, "Let me field this one"... just because you know the answer, that's on you and my guess is his annoyance has built up until he finally told you to shut up in a meeting.

 

 

Now only you can determine which it was. If you feel it was more on him, you should have just pulled him aside after the meeting and said, "I didn't appreciate you kicking my chair. Is there a problem?" He either would have apologized and said it was a one-off or had a deeper discussion about what he felt was wrong. Any time that is not right after the meeting, if you discuss it with him it will look a bit weak and make it look like you are stewing on it and won't be a good look right or wrong.

 

 

I'd let it go until it happens again and if it does, state exactly what you are saying here...I don't appreciate you doing that, is there an issue we need to address? If he clears the air, great. If it makes anything worse or he blows you off or he's offended, he's probably not someone you really want to work for.