Tell me something I haven't thought of...

[anika99]

look, marriages should only fail based on the marriage itself. Meaning that when one is thinking about leaving, it should never be based on there being another person waiting in the wings. Ending a relationship for no other purpose than to be with a new squeeze is not a good idea.

 

You say his marriage was fine and they had lot's of sexual intimacy before you came along so it sounds like he was reasonably happily married. I think he would be foolish to leave a stable home and marriage just because he has some romantic love/lust relationship on the side. He probably thinks so too but he won't ever outright tell you that.

 

After all these years his wife isn't just his wife, she is his family. I'm in my fifties. I've had 3 long term serious relationships and in all of those relationships I believed that they were my soulmate, my destiny. But those relationships ended and guess who is still here? My friends and family. Family ties run deep and they should not be broken frivolously. I know lots of OW think their romantic relationship with the MM is the be all and end all and that's it worth risking everything for but they are misguided. Romance and those in love feelings ebb and flow in a long term marriage. Sometimes people who are married fall in and out of love with each other several times during the span of their marriage. When they are not madly in love with each other they still have their friendship and family ties to keep them bonded to each other.

 

There are 2 couples in my family who have been married over 40 yrs. They are loving and happily married now but they says there were definitely times in their marriage where they thought they didn't love each other any more and it was only their marriage commitment and family ties that kept them together through those times. They also say they are really glad that they rode out those tough times and didn't rashly run for a divorce.

 

I don't see your MM leaving for you. I don't doubt that he has a romantic love for you and that he wants you but he doesn't want anything else in his life to change. He doesn't want to give up his faithful loyal companion of 3 decades, his house, the extended family he shares with his wife. If he left he would be one of these MM who freak out as soon as he starts to see the consequences of that decision and runs back home in a few weeks. It would just be unending drama of him picking you, then picking his wife, then you, then his wife.

 

As for you having integrity. You may have had integrity before and you might have integrity again someday, but right you are lacking integrity. Integrity is something you live by. People who have integrity, act with integrity.

[anika99]

DKT3 - I've seen things (texts, notes etc) from her that would support what he tells me about their sex life being pretty close to non-existent and her being worried that he's going to leave her. Nothing direct but little things that make me think things are not going great over there.

 

You say his sex life with her was fine before he met you. Now rather than being honest with her, he is withholding intimacy from her while she tortures herself trying to figure what is happening with her marriage. What a cruel came he plays with her.

 

Worse he then shows you her intimate private messages that she sent to him and you happily read her messages expressing her fears and innermost pain and I guess reading those messages makes you feel good because they make you believe that you are more special. Again where is this integrity you speak of?

[knitwit]

*We know that what we're doing is terrible. She is a nice person and doesn't deserve this. He is very close to his kids too and lying to all of them is killing him. I see the stress and torture that this causes him as he's always had a lot of integrity. He is someone who has always done what's best for everyone else and is constantly taking care of other people - his family (including his elderly parents), people he works with, his friends. And for me, I feel like I have ruined what was otherwise a pretty successful marriage.

 

He knows that I would like him to leave his wife but I also know that leaving would devastate not only her but also their whole family. I don't want that but I also don't know how to go through the rest of my life without this person. I've been in a couple of long-term relationships by this point in my life (and while none of them were bad, but there was always something lacking it seemed) and now I feel like the universe is playing a cruel joke by finally showing me this person who fits me so perfectly, and yet we are in an impossible situation. That us being happy means other people being destroyed. He has said many times that even if he stays, he knows he'll only be doing it to save the family from a huge upheaval, and will spend the rest of his life miserable too. We are truly stuck between a rock and a hard place, and it seems like no matter which way things go, there will be sadness of some kind for a long time.

 

What do we do? Is there any way to come out of this okay? Does anyone have advice or thoughts that I could ponder that perhaps I haven't thought of?

 

OP, I am sorry you're in pain and in this untenable situation.

 

One thing that I don't think you've considered is that even if he did leave and he was "happy" with you, it is highly unlikely that he would be truly happy. He might be happy in his relationship with you, but he would be miserable with the rest of his life. This is because he would have to live with the pain and devastation he caused. He would lose his reputation, he would no longer be widely considered a "good man." He will be thought of as one of "those men" who left his wife, a long and successful marriage, for someone much younger.

 

He will lose the respect and possibly any real meaningful relationship with his adult children. People pooh pooh this, but you are looking at adult children who grew up within a strong family, with a successful marriage. They will forever look at you as a home-wrecker and they will be bitterly and deeply disappointed in their father. They are never going to accept that he was unhappy before you came along- because in truth, he wasn't. They will never look at him or trust him in the same way again. And obviously, he would damage his wife of multiple decades, and he would have to live with that.

 

I think you should look up some of the other stories here. There is one MM in particular I hope you find, although I am blanking on his name now. He fiercely loved his AP, but he realized that he could not leave his family. He is in reconciliation with his wife now.

 

I hope some of the other posters can refer you to him. The thing he says is that while he truly loved his OW, he came to realize that she was an indulgence that he never, ever should have given into. It caused devastation to the OW, him, and his family. He is grateful that he has a chance to reclaim his life, his family, his marriage. This is what he spent his whole life building before he started his relationship with his OW.

 

You think that your MM would be happier with you, but if you are accurately describing him, you know that this cannot be the truth. He will have spent over half a century creating his life, building his reputation, strengthening his family and community roots. He is probably the person his kids look up to most. If he were to leave his marriage, this will all be destroyed.

 

He was happy before he let down his boundaries and foolishly started up with you. You are like a Pandora's Box to him. You are the drug that he was perfectly happy without but now that he's had it, nothing else can compare. But it's a drug, it is not real, it cannot bring him the full life and true satisfaction that his real life should bring.

 

Sometimes things are just not meant to be. It is one of the twisted things in life that something that feels so good and makes you so happy is actually damaging you. You are losing years of your life on this relationship, which has probably already provided its peak happiness. You want more than you can have and like any other addiction, it's impossible to just want less without experiencing a lot more pain.

 

This is a relationship that feels very good but in truth is destructive to you, your MM, and his family. You all lose here. No one really wins, regardless of the outcome. Very 1980s: "the only way to win is to decline to play the game."

 

I don't really expect you to make any changes based on this post, but I wanted to put it out there for your consideration. So often OW are told "if he just loved you enough" but many times, it's just not that simple. I hope that you are able to make the changes in your life so that you are able to bring some lasting and sustainable happiness. I strongly suggest that you try to find another job so you can at least give yourself a chance to build a life without your MM. I doubt you will, though. Us humans- none of us willingly change without a push- usually a painful push. I wish you the best.

Edited June 21, 2018 by knitwit

[Poppy47]

Thank you Knitwit for your very wise and sensible words.

 

Indeed, what happens to the rest of MM's long life once he leaves for the OW????

 

It is not realistic to say he doesn't love her enough. He very well might love her to the moon and back but it is simply too late and too difficult to start over with her. He would lose everything and further more, end up hating the OW.

 

Poppy

[DKT3]

[]

I think you should look up some of the other stories here. There is one MM in particular I hope you find, although I am blanking on his name now. He fiercely loved his AP, but he realized that he could not leave his family. He is in reconciliation with his wife now.

 

I hope some of the other posters can refer you to him. The thing he says is that while he truly loved his OW, he came to realize that she was an indulgence that he never, ever should have given into. It caused devastation to the OW, him, and his family. He is grateful that he has a chance to reclaim his life, his family, his marriage. This is what he spent his whole life building before he started his relationship with his OW.

 

[]

 

Jenkins is his username

Edited June 21, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote

[Starswillshine]

To expand on a previous post about the adult children, they are adults, they no longer have need for their father. My children are young and are repairing their damage their father created by his affair. Because they need him. Because children need their father. But as an adult? That need isnt there, so I believe less need to repair the damage.

 

I'm the wife (soon to be ex-wife) in the situation similar to yours. We had a great marriage. Longterm. Everyone thought we had it all. I thought we had it all. We were happy. We had a great connection. We would take long road trips and never once turn on the radio... even 20 years later. I was absolutely crazy about him... he seemed to be, too. During his affair, we sit together on the couch at night and he would tell me all the ways he loved me and was in love with me. We had a very fulfilling sex life. Everything was great. Large family with kids ranging from high school to preschool. Success. We had it all.

 

He had an affair. He told the OW the same things your MM is telling you. Except most were lies and half truths. I found out. I left. Is he with this great love? No. In fact, he has said numerous times (and backed by his actions to date) that he had to fill the OW with all those emotions because once he found himself in a situation (that started off as something just for fun), he didn't have a good way out without insuring she wouldn't blow up his family. So he kept her strong along, hoping she would get bored. It didn't work, I found out, I left. He didn't go running to his "great love." Its been 8 months and he blocked every way she can communicate with him.

[MidnightBlue1980]

 

I'm curious, what you want for your life? You are young. You still have the opportunity to find a husband and perhaps have a family of your own. Will you regret not having your own children/family?

 

This was my thought. You asked for things to think about. Think about the fact that even if he did leave and you got him, you won't have children of your own or get to experience all the things people do when they have a family of their own.

 

And even if you don't care about that, it's okay now, you are in your 30s and he is in his 50s. Twenty years from now you will be in your 50s and be married to a man in his 70s. I know several woman in this situation and it's not good. There is a really big difference in how the two people want to live their lives. Women in their 50s tend to be ready to live life finally and men in their 70s are basically preparing to wind down life. From what they tell me, there are big differences in sexual desires as well. The women I know are unhappy, one separated and the other has affairs.

 

When I was in my early 30s I was involved with this guy with kids in a permanent state of separation. I finally ended it because I wanted a chance to have a family of my own and just be normal, walk in the sun, so to speak.

[BaileyB]

To expand on a previous post about the adult children, they are adults, they no longer have need for their father.

 

Yes, but as adult children they are old enough and wise enough to have their own opinions and pass judgment on their fathers decisions/affairs. This may have a very different impact on the relationship - they may even chose to end the relationship.

[Starswillshine]

Yes, but as adult children they are old enough and wise enough to have their own opinions and pass judgment on their fathers decisions/affairs. This may have a very different impact on the relationship - they may even chose to end the relationship.

 

Agreed. There is less need to repair the damage.

[georgia girl]

Tell you something you haven’t thought about?

 

Well, you are young and he’s an old guy, for one. And two, you only get one life. Every second you spend in this relationship is a second where you could be out living life, finding true love, seeking new adventures, experiencing new things. So, while you are waiting for the phone to ring, your peers are out there living. There will come a day when you will vehemently regret this wasted time. Minimize your regrets and make this time as short as possible.

[BaileyB]

I'm the wife (soon to be ex-wife) in the situation similar to yours. We had a great marriage. Longterm. Everyone thought we had it all. I thought we had it all. We were happy. We had a great connection. We would take long road trips and never once turn on the radio... even 20 years later. I was absolutely crazy about him... he seemed to be, too. During his affair, we sit together on the couch at night and he would tell me all the ways he loved me and was in love with me. We had a very fulfilling sex life. Everything was great. Large family with kids ranging from high school to preschool. Success. We had it all.

 

He had an affair. He told the OW the same things your MM is telling you. Except most were lies and half truths. I found out. I left. Is he with this great love? No. In fact, he has said numerous times (and backed by his actions to date) that he had to fill the OW with all those emotions because once he found himself in a situation (that started off as something just for fun), he didn't have a good way out without insuring she wouldn't blow up his family. So he kept her strong along, hoping she would get bored. It didn't work, I found out, I left. He didn't go running to his "great love." Its been 8 months and he blocked every way she can communicate with him.

 

First things first, I'm sorry Starswillshine for the loss of your marriage. I'm impressed with your strength and resiliency.

 

And for OP, think about all this man has lost because of his affair. Think about everything that his wife and his children have lost. Do you really want to be THE CAUSE of such pain? Do you want to be (at least partly) responsible for the destruction of a family? How does that feel when you rest your head in your pillow at night...

 

I believe that you are living in a fantasy land... This is a stark reminder that actions have consequences. It is also a stark reminder that even if he does leave the marriage (which he has given no indication that he plans to do), it still doesn't mean that he will choose you...

[Aloha123]

Here are some things you may or may not have thought of but which i remind myself of on a daily basis since finding this forum. I say this from a place of utmost compassion since I am right there with you at this point:

 

Your affair is following a script. It is not special. It is not the exception. You are not his soulmate. Even if you were, he is not leaving his wife for you, so it doesn't matter. Even if he "loves" you, again, he is not leaving his wife, so what difference does it make . Even assuming you two are "in love", you are each in love with a highly romanticized and unrealistic version of each other. The 'forbidden" nature is part of what makes you so attracted to one another, and why it feels so "magical" . Because it is "just out of reach" . That is half of what keeps you sucked in.

Affairs end in one of 2 ways -- one person ends it voluntarily, or it ends because of D-day. It does NOT end with you two riding off into the sunset together.

Now, you can choose to acknowledge all of this and still decide you want to continue/ are not ready to end things (which is sadly where I am right now), but please, PLEASE do not waste anymore energy trying to convince yourself or anybody on this forum who has "been there, done that" that any of this is somehow not true in your case.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Aloha123

[FoundMyStrength]

What do we do? Is there any way to come out of this okay? Does anyone have advice or thoughts that I could ponder that perhaps I haven't thought of?

 

 

I don't think this will be anything new, but here's my take. It is extremely rare for a married man to leave his wife for the other woman, love or not. There are too many reasons to stay: sex, kids, reputation, comfort, finances, and the desire to avoid a messy, terrible divorce. When people divorce due to affairs, people always take sides. He will lose friends and family members. His reputation with the ones he keeps will be tainted.

 

 

 

I also truly believe that the other woman, even if there is love, will never be "pure" again in his eyes. His wife has been loyal and trustworthy. She is the loving mother of his kids. While you have been complicit in him betraying and deceiving her, and the kids too. I believe the guilt and weight of that wins out most times. The other woman, no matter how good of a person overall, will never be wife material to the man she's screwing around with.

[BluesPower]

Thus far I've continued to make the daily decision that even if that never happens, it's still worth it for what I get to experience with him. To have him in my life for however long I get to. But it also breaks my heart every day to be in this situation.

 

I wish, I wish... you could actually understand what some of these women are telling you.

 

As a guy, let me tell you this. At a different time in my life, I was really not a good person.

 

I had several woman that loved me like you love your MM. Some of them I loved as well, but I was never going to be with them.

 

At the time, I was such a creep that, oh well, I like that they love me, so why not.

 

I was not a good enough man, to understand or care how much I hurt them. One girl nearly killed herself when the breakup came.

 

I just wish you could understand what a mistake you are making with your life...

[pepperbird]

 

I've asked him about the open arrangement idea - it's not my preference but I do understand how that could be a possibility. But he's pretty sure she would not be okay with that, and I think it would be a temporary fix at best. All romantic love between them has evaporated and so they'd both be aware that he was only staying for the sake of stability. I can't imagine how tense and awkward that might get as she would want more from him than that.

 

.

 

 

If all he romance has gone, why would she expect more? Why would it devastate her so much?

 

If he's using those as excuses, then it could well be there is far more between them than he would have you believe.

 

 

 

I think those are questions you need to ask yourself.

[pepperbird]

To comment on some of the responses saying that the "staying for the kids" thing is just an excuse. It may be. I'm not blind to that possibility. But this is a man who sees his adult children almost daily - they're an incredibly close family. And it's broader than that - the extended family relies on him a fair bit too and if his family were to break down, there would be implications for a lot of people. He always says he feels it would be incredibly selfish to leave, and he's never made me any false promises that he would leave either. But he truly seems to want to. He said that his mind just swings back and forth all day between feeling guilty about what he's doing to them and feeling miserable about not being able to be with me. So I guess my point is, he does seem genuinely tortured. It doesn't mean I have to stay, but of course I love him so I feel torture of another kind.

 

 

So this man, who is terrified to leave because it will hurt others is perfectly fie with doing the one things - engaging in an affair-that has a really high chance of blowing up the lives of these people n a very painful way.

 

 

That doesn't even make sense.

[pepperbird]

DKT3 - I've seen things (texts, notes etc) from her that would support what he tells me about their sex life being pretty close to non-existent and her being worried that he's going to leave her. Nothing direct but little things that make me think things are not going great over there.

 

 

So his wife is likely sitting there blaming herself for his sudden lack of interest. She's probably wondering what changed about her to make him not interested in her anymore. She's very well likley feeling terrible about herself and blaming herself, when it turns out, it's not her but it's it's HIM ( with some help form you) that have the issues.

 

 

He's fine with her feeling bad so long as he has a source on the side and doesn't have to have his good guy image tarnished.

 

 

That doesn't square with the man you describe at all.

[Bufo]

Looks like it’s time for Prof Bufo’s homework assignment again.

 

Pick any 10 OW posts at random. Keep score on how many end happily ever after versus how many end with heartbreak, regret and pain for the OW.

 

If that doesn’t tell you what lies ahead in your future, repeat the exercise with another random ten threads.

 

If you haven’t yet had a glimpse into your future, write a one page essay on why this A will end happily ever after based on real facts in your A. Not wishes and hopes.

 

One more assignment. Tell us why life isn’t passing you by every day you wait for long term happiness with MM.

[Birdies]

Even if he does truly love you and you would truly be great together (which can happen - it happened to me and things are wonderful despite the terrible, soul-crushing destruction done to our former lives) - what are the realistic chances that he is going to completely destroy his wife and children by leaving them all for you? Not good. Not good at all.

 

What is more likely is that you two will continue this affair until a mistake is made and it comes out. We all think we are keeping the secret so we’ll, right up until the moment it blows up in our face. Then, he will realize that nothing is worth further piling onto the pain he’s already put on his family, and you’ll be out of the picture - even though he does love you.

 

That will suck immensely. You would be better off choosing the end of your affair yourself, rather than having it foisted upon you.

[Robert]

Seems this was a driveby, if the thread starter would like it reopened in the future just alert on my post and we will do so, thanks all who participated.