How much is a woman really worth?

[Babeindawoods]

Hi...

 

I have a question about judgement.. from a man's perspective..

 

What I'm wondering is this:

 

Do men believe that a woman's ability to empathize has been broken if she no longer cries over manipulations?

 

What I'm trying to say is... if a man has totally trashed a woman so thoroughly that she has been exposed to every dirty trick in the book and can no longer be hooked by any other men using "man bible tactics"...

 

Do other men then see this woman as garbage?

 

I ask these questions because my ex introduced me to a lot of these phrases.

 

He said that "Thrift Shop" is code word for hunting older women and single moms on dating websites because they are considered "used goods."

 

This guy told me that I am a "used handbag" and that after he was done with me, I would never be respected or desired again.

 

My ex also told me that men call women "toilets" and "appliances" and that they all laugh at women who have had kids or are out of their twenties.

 

A lot of this he said to me when he was really stoned and drunk, so I know it was meant to hurt me, but at the same time... it left me wondering about a lot.

 

While I was trying to get over my ex, I got on a dating website and met up with a random guy. This guy said some things like, "yeah you still have some life left in you" and several other comments that made me think my ex had been telling the truth.

 

Anyway, my ex also told me that he was going to make sure I got killed because he said I'm too ugly to be allowed to live.

 

So, I'm just wondering if:

 

1. Any of that is true as far as other men are concerned..

 

And,

 

2. If after being exposed to someone like this, and noticing some relevancy in what he said, does that mean that I am jaded and/or broken if I can no longer be bought with promises and gifts?

[S2B]

That's some sick and twisted views of women.

 

I hope you don't believe that kind of crap he's doled out - it's a terribly unhealthy perspective.

[heavenonearth]

Wow your ex was some abusive douche bag for sure.

I am sorry that he was able to gaslight you into thinking you are worthless.

 

I hope you are able to remove yourself from toxic situations like this in the future as soon as they appear.

 

That being said, of course there are a lot of men out there who have very little respect for women and who are using the patriarchy to talk down women for their personal gain. But be assured there are also some good people out there, some of which are kind men who will treat you with respect and who will love you for who you are. Just make sure to not allow yourself to be found in another situation as you mentioned in your post, because any negative experience will make you more insecure and left feeling a lot of self doubt.

That’s exactly what men like your ex want to achieve and you don’t want to give them that satisfaction. Men who use these tactics to talk down women do it because they are insecure themselves and this is the only way for them to feel assuaged in their own self doubts.

 

So i wish you good luck for the future and i hope you will have better luck dating men who care about you the way you deserve.

[Andy_K]

1. Any of that is true as far as other men are concerned..

 

There's going to be a grain of truth in some things - there are men who treat women entirely as disposable objects, and many of them can be found online. Furthermore, some will target women who have kids or are 30+, since they're easier targets, as they'll often be less in demand than otherwise. Still plenty of decent guys out there whore aren't like that though. As always, your ability to judge character will determine your experiences.

 

2. If after being exposed to someone like this, and noticing some relevancy in what he said, does that mean that I am jaded and/or broken if I can no longer be bought with promises and gifts?

 

No woman should be bought with promises and gifts in the first place. Empty words and shallow gifts shoudln't make you swoon. You're looking for character and compatibility. Humour, empathy, honesty, openness, confidence, compassion, intelligence, etc

[Babeindawoods]

S2B,

 

If you were in a relationship with a woman who was the same age as you and she was in love with you and interested in a lifelong commitment... and you got approached by a much younger woman who just wanted to have some fun...

 

Would you be inspired to chase the younger woman?

 

My ex told me that monogomy is a joke on women in general and that younger women are much smarter these days because they know about this and don't want or expect a commitment.

 

He said thats what makes men desire to commit to a woman... when she is younger and not that interested in a commitment.

 

Yeah... a lot was said to hurt my feelings. And he was and still is in a partnership with a woman who is about the same age as him, but who he said was comfortable with an open relationship.

 

They are an alternative couple. They are trans...

 

I didn't know about it until right before he left me.

 

So there were tons and tons of lies thrown at me with some truth mixed in and I'm still trying to figure out what's true and what's a lie.

 

Can you give me some more detailed feedback?

[coolheadal]

Your to worried about this jerk you had! Dump him in the trash pale. Move on and look for a real man! Whatever you do don't judge us other men in this sort of fashion. Then you will never find true love ever again. He was toxic what you was with!

[Babeindawoods]

Hi @heaven...

 

Thats a great user name, btw... makes me think I'm talking to an angel .

 

Thank you for responding with some uplifting words of comfort. Have you been through any kind of situation like this?

 

I mean, you look like you're really beautiful, so I imagine men haven't really called you ugly very much... but I'm interested to hear if anyone else has been through anything remotely close to what I've experienced..

[Babeindawoods]

@Andyk,

 

I appreciate your honesty! Yeah... In the past, I've delt with some smoke and mirrors for sure. After that guy left me, I threw away the diamonds he bought and that did make me feel better actually.

 

What I've encountered since then, however, is men thinking that if they buy me dinner, that I owe them sex. This is when I just tried to be friends...

 

I can't even find a man who can kiss passionately anymore. I feel like it's because I'm in my 30's :/. So I thought maybe I'll just be friends with a guy... but none of them want to hang out that way.

 

The whole thing sucks because I'm just totally turned off by men right now.

[heavenonearth]

Hi @heaven...

 

Thats a great user name, btw... makes me think I'm talking to an angel .

 

Thank you for responding with some uplifting words of comfort. Have you been through any kind of situation like this?

 

I mean, you look like you're really beautiful, so I imagine men haven't really called you ugly very much... but I'm interested to hear if anyone else has been through anything remotely close to what I've experienced..

 

Thank you, I also really love talking to enchanting women roaming through forests, it's really something special.

 

And yes, I have dated a bunch of narcissists and also physically and verbally abusive men. At 19, I entered a 4 year relationship with an abusive guy who constantly made me feel worthless, he hit me, he locked me in our house, he spit on me, he found all sorts of ways to lower my self-esteem. It was the only way he was able to feel better about himself, because he himself was unhappy with his own life. It took a long time until I was able to remove myself from the relationship, and I am still suffering the repercussions now, 12 years later. I advise you to not get stuck with a man like this, it's a waste of your time, and it can really ruin your self esteem for many years to come, which takes hours of therapy to reverse.

 

I also have had very bad experiences on dating sites, where men, when I did not reply to them (because i simply wasn't interested) threw insults at me, such as that I am ugly, fat, too old, and what not.... You need to understand that men who treat you like this are not doing it because the things they say about you are true -- they say this because it is the only way they can feel better about themselves. They are unhappy with themselves, so they need to put another person down, and they have been learned that the easiest victim for them is a woman they can undermine. Even the most beautiful woman on the planet will be insulted by men like these, if she does not respond to them the way they desire.

 

What I advise you is to immediately remove yourself from situations like these.

You don't want to expose yourself to this kind of negativity. You must know you are worthy of love. You are beautiful, and it is YOU who chooses the person you want to be with, not the other way around. YOU choose who is a good match for YOU. Think about what YOU deserve (someone awesome), and who is worthy of YOU (ONLY someone awesome!).

Try to lift yourself up, not talk yourself down. That's what these men you encountered want to achieve, but you're stronger than that.

 

Hope this helps.

[heavenonearth]

@Andyk,

 

I appreciate your honesty! Yeah... In the past, I've delt with some smoke and mirrors for sure. After that guy left me, I threw away the diamonds he bought and that did make me feel better actually.

 

What I've encountered since then, however, is men thinking that if they buy me dinner, that I owe them sex. This is when I just tried to be friends...

 

I can't even find a man who can kiss passionately anymore. I feel like it's because I'm in my 30's :/. So I thought maybe I'll just be friends with a guy... but none of them want to hang out that way.

 

The whole thing sucks because I'm just totally turned off by men right now.

 

This has become a big problem in online dating culture nowadays.

As I said, remove yourself from situations like these immediately.

 

Have you thought about perhaps if you have a certain pattern of men that you date?

This can often be the case if you have unresolved issues from the past.

 

I dated the same kind of man for YEARS until I finally met my current boyfriend, who is the opposite of every guy I was with before.

 

And don't give up on finding the person who will kiss you passionately, he exists, trust me. Don't think that because you're in your 30s that your love life is over. I met my boyfriend when I was 30 (he is 39), and it's the most passionate love I ever had.

 

There are billions of people in this world, you, too, will find someone who deserves you. Just try to break that pattern of dating the same douche bag over and over again.

[Babeindawoods]

Now that I think about it... the kissing is probably a pretty good way to tell if a guy is being at least somewhat honest about his feelings..

 

My ex didn't kiss me with any kind of passion either. When I try to think back to when I experienced a passionate kiss... I can't remember anything worth mentioning except back in high school maybe..

 

Ugh... I can even fantasize about any guy at all because of this.

 

My ex only wanted perverted **** in the bedroom and it had nothing to do with passion.

 

Are there still men who are interested in slow dancing and making out?

 

Or are you all just wanting the role playing crap? I find that **** nauseating.

 

It makes me wonder who you've been with recently that you would want some kind of daddy talk. You see... it wasn't just this last ex who acted like that..

 

This is why I question whether men even want an adult woman at all these days...

 

Someone tell me where I can find an adult man who sees any value at all in an adult woman without her having to cook and clean all day and turn the other cheek when he smells weird coming home from a "meeting." Anybody.. please.

[heavenonearth]

Now that I think about it... the kissing is probably a pretty good way to tell if a guy is being at least somewhat honest about his feelings..

 

My ex didn't kiss me with any kind of passion either. When I try to think back to when I experienced a passionate kiss... I can't remember anything worth mentioning except back in high school maybe..

 

Ugh... I can even fantasize about any guy at all because of this.

 

My ex only wanted perverted **** in the bedroom and it had nothing to do with passion.

 

Are there still men who are interested in slow dancing and making out?

 

Or are you all just wanting the role playing crap? I find that **** nauseating.

 

It makes me wonder who you've been with recently that you would want some kind of daddy talk. You see... it wasn't just this last ex who acted like that..

 

This is why I question whether men even want an adult woman at all these days...

 

Someone tell me where I can find an adult man who sees any value at all in an adult woman without her having to cook and clean all day and turn the other cheek when he smells weird coming home from a "meeting." Anybody.. please.

 

It seems you are already very much stuck in this way of thinking.

 

How about this?

How about, you just give up dating at all for a while. 6 months to a year. Focus on YOURSELF and improving yourself and doing things for YOU!

 

Don't focus on finding some man to get with.

Just be YOU.

 

It's nice to find someone to love, but at first we must love ourselves.

And treat ourselves well.

 

If you remove yourself from the dating pool, I think you will be a lot happier and see things differently.

 

And oftentimes, love will come to us when we least expect it.

[Babeindawoods]

@heaven,

 

Thank you so much for the kind words. I have been out of the situation for a while now. I had minimal contact with him recently and the pain is no longer there. In fact, based on the phrases used, I could tell that he and his partner were handing the phone back and forth... and I had to laugh at that.

 

But it did make me want to find out if there are more couples like him and his partner out there than people might think.

 

And I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to balance logic and heart in this particular day and age.

 

How do you feel you can trust your boyfriend when there are a gazillion 18 yr olds with social media all over the place?

[heavenonearth]

@heaven,

 

Thank you so much for the kind words. I have been out of the situation for a while now. I had minimal contact with him recently and the pain is no longer there. In fact, based on the phrases used, I could tell that he and his partner were handing the phone back and forth... and I had to laugh at that.

 

But it did make me want to find out if there are more couples like him and his partner out there than people might think.

 

And I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to balance logic and heart in this particular day and age.

 

How do you feel you can trust your boyfriend when there are a gazillion 18 yr olds with social media all over the place?

 

Because he loves me and because an 18 year old is no freaking competition to me in any sort of way. An 18 year old is still a child.

Any guy in his 30s who dates an 18 year old is a creep. If you feel you cannot trust ANY guy you have recently dated, and think they're hooking up with 18 year olds, then you need to reevalute your pattern of men that you date. It is obvious you have a talent for picking douchebags. It's ok, it happens, it happened to me too, I was constantly dating guys who did not want to commit to me because they were scared they'd miss out on life (my pattern was dating guys in their early 20s when I was in my late 20s -- bad pattern).

 

 

That being said, nobody is a competition to me in my relationship, because my partner and I have a strong bond and we love each other to pieces.

 

I hope for you to find a love like that some day, but please remember that finding love is not what makes you a worthy of being a woman.

 

LOVE YOURSELF! <3

[nospam99]

I wasn't sure whether to post on this thread ... but WTH ... my insights are my own (as all of ours are).

 

Based on Babe the OP's other thread she has been traumatized by a 'particularly unusual' experience. But she also suggests that she has had several bad, though not that unusual, other experiences, too.

 

My answer is typical - fix your picker. Yes, WAY easier said than done.

 

If I may (LOL - OF COURSE I may - only the mods can stop me), I'd like to share another side of the story. I think I'm one of the 'good men'. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. However I am now 'chronologically mature' (64) and not in 'the game' with women like Babe and Heaven. But ... I can project my thoughts back 40 years. I claim I was a 'good man' then, too. It was difficult for me to find a partner. I didn't do the bar or the party scene and I wouldn't walk up to a woman and ask her out JUST because she was hot. I doubt it would have worked anyway because I'm more of an Ezra Miller than a Ben Afleck (absolutely no Jason Momoa). Was I the kind of dependable beta that a woman 'should' have 'picked' to avoid being used? Probably. And I'd be remiss to not point out that I ended up in a failed marriage that only lasted as long as it did for the sake of the kids. But then it's back to the old 'women pick the bad boys' cliche. Babe just happened to pick a VERY bad boy.

 

Using me as a counter example aside, I assert the answer to the subject question is that a woman is worth EVERYTHING to 'the right man'. And if a woman wants to find the right man? Back to the picker. Other 'young' women will have more specific strategies for successful picking (hunting/fishing). But I feel comfortable suggesting

- don't go looking in bars, traditional things like community picnics and volunteering draw more 'good people'

- keep sex 'in perspective' - a bad boy may get you off but he's probably even more interested in getting himself off

- talk, get to know your partner, see how he treats his friends and family

 

Bottom line: for me, and I'll assume for other men and women, too, there are two dimensions of exciting sex and committed love. We must all be thoughtful and patient about how we mix those dimensions in our searches for the people we may wish to find to be our partners.

Edited June 28, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[stillafool]

OP it might be wise to seek independent counseling for the abuse you've accepted through the years that has brought down your self esteem and why you gravitate towards abusive men. It might be best to put off dating until you've had counseling.

[carhill]

For an abusive man, the one apparently described here, she's worth the babies she produces and her contribution to his social power base. The reverse corollary is he's worth the money and lifestyle.

[kendahke]

He said that "Thrift Shop" is code word for hunting older women and single moms on dating websites because they are considered "used goods."

 

That's why I slice left on men younger than me on apps. Not here to babysit.

 

To answer the question posed in the title: the woman decides what her worth is, no one else. It's none of her business what anyone else thinks of her--that's their problem, not hers.

 

This guy told me that I am a "used handbag" and that after he was done with me, I would never be respected or desired again.

 

My ex also told me that men call women "toilets" and "appliances" and that they all laugh at women who have had kids or are out of their twenties.

 

Sweetie, don't let eff-boys stress you out like this. Anyone who has that kind of opinion has got some deep psychological issues that you don't need to be around.

 

My ex told me

 

Consider the source... I think he's demolished his credibility and his opinion has no value in your world. He cannot speak for other men and seriously--would you want some man who meets with his approval anyway?

Edited June 27, 2018 by kendahke

[GreenTea937]

@Andyk,

 

I appreciate your honesty! Yeah... In the past, I've delt with some smoke and mirrors for sure. After that guy left me, I threw away the diamonds he bought and that did make me feel better actually.

 

What I've encountered since then, however, is men thinking that if they buy me dinner, that I owe them sex. This is when I just tried to be friends...

 

I can't even find a man who can kiss passionately anymore. I feel like it's because I'm in my 30's :/. So I thought maybe I'll just be friends with a guy... but none of them want to hang out that way.

 

The whole thing sucks because I'm just totally turned off by men right now.

 

 

These are not good men. They are emotionally abusive. 30's is not that old. I'm about to turn 37 in August, and most of the men who approach me are in their 20s and 30's. Please talk to a licensed therapist. Anyone who makes you feel bad about yourself and lowers your self esteem is not worth it. I do not feel threatened by 18 year olds b/c I know they dont have my life experience or my wisdom that comes with age. And if thats all that a man wants, then he just wants sex with a young woman or to control her in some way. He does not want a real relationship

[JDJ]

It makes me wonder who you've been with recently that you would want some kind of daddy talk. You see... it wasn't just this last ex who acted like that..

 

I would question any man that wants to call his woman "daddy". Sounds like a topic for therapy. If it is the other way around, with the woman giving the man "daddy talk", then just ewwww.

 

Babe, from your other thread, your ex is the hermaphrodite, right? That was a messed up situation, and I wouldn't listen to anything your ex said. I think you need to give yourself a lot of time and space to relax and reset towards a normal, loving relationship. It may take a while. But let go of all of those warped and toxic ideas. Real men do not think of women that way.

[Babeindawoods]

Thanks Carhill.