Failing New Marriage

[Ronin3993]

New User here, been perusing sites like these for awhile but never reached out until now. I have a new marriage that is quite literally falling apart, and I don't know what to do. Backstory, met my wife in college 5 years ago, 2 years into relationship learned she was pregnant, got engaged shortly after that, lived together for a couple years while raising our daughter (she was a stay at home mom for the first 2 years, due to a lack of employment, financial constraints, and breastfeeding).

 

So August of last year we finally got married, and moved to a new region (closer to her family) I began a new job and she started working. I thought all was well and went about being content in my fresh marriage, our intimacy had slowed down but I chalked that up to typical marital relations and due to her discomfort at the beginning of sex caused by childbirth. About a month ago she expressed that she felt trapped in the marriage among other things, which threw up a huge red flag for me and I started paying a lot more attention to her and what was going on.

 

From there I noticed she had been acting strangely, which lead me to ask her if there was someone else, actually ask her multiple times as I continued to notice warning signs. She dismissed my concerns and eventually during a talk she said she didn't know if she still loved me. That night I wasn't able to sleep at all, and in the morning in bad fashion I looked at her phone while she was in the shower (I realize that was a huge mistake, and that I should have never done that, in fact I immediately felt overcome with guilt and still feel bad about it) to find a message chain with one of her male coworkers.

 

She shared a lot of information with him and it seemed like he turned down a proposition from her for sex. I stewed the entire day while she was at work, and when she got home I confessed to her what I had done and apologized for invading her privacy. I asked her about the other guy and she told me that nothing actually happened, but that she was sorry.

 

From there I brought up going to couples counseling, which resulted in a non-committal response. Things have since continued to be bad, with us arguing anytime I try to talk about us, and now reaching where she fully acknowledges that she doesn't love me anymore.

 

I realized I had made mistakes, not really taking her out like I use to, not giving the relationship the time it deserved, and I've made steps to fix that. She has agreed to go to individual counseling, but that is all. I am not convinced she has ended things with the other guy and has made no overture to inspire my trust in her, or any interest in trying to save the marriage.

 

I suspect the only reason she hasn't just left is due to financial instability and our daughter. I still love her and I want her back but I have no idea how. A lot of things I have read are to give her space, focus on improving myself, and let her work through her thoughts/feelings.

 

Which makes complete sense, but I’m worried that since problems began from a lack of time together that doing that would make things worse.

Edited July 6, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[d0nnivain]

You two have a lot of talking to do if you are to fix this. Your idea to get MC is a good one. Press for that.

 

At a minimum she needs to give you some concrete info about what would make her feel lest trapped.

 

I am not suggesting you cave to her every whim but do have some real heart to hearts so you can figure out what's best for you both & your child.

[Art_Critic]

Not sure what I would do in that case, but I suspect there are more guys you don't know about.. her reaction to you finding out about her propositioning the other guy means to me that there are more guys in the wings or she is getting ready to move one into the wings...

 

If you are not getting any committal to fix things then you have no choice but to move on, seek a divorce.. she is trying to cheat and cheating emotionally with another man..

 

Has she had postpartum depression or had any depression issues ?

[Mr. Lucky]

I immediately felt overcome with guilt and still feel bad about it) to find a message chain with one of her male coworkers. She shared a lot of information with him and it seemed like he turned down a proposition from her for sex. I stewed the entire day while she was at work, and when she got home I confessed to her what I had done and apologized for invading her privacy. I asked her about the other guy and she told me that nothing actually happened, but that she was sorry. From there I brought up going to couples counseling, which resulted in a non-committal response. Things have since continued to be bad, with us arguing anytime I try to talk about us, and now reaching where she fully acknowledges that she doesn't love me anymore.

I realized I had made mistakes, not really taking her out like I use to, not giving the relationship the time it deserved, and I've made steps to fix that. She has agreed to go to individual counseling, but that is all. I am not convinced she has ended things with the other guy and has made no overture to inspire my trust in her, or any interest in trying to save the marriage. I suspect the only reason she hasn't just left is due to financial instability and our daughter.

 

Unfortunately Ronin3993, her reaction - or lack thereof - indicates the relationship has already begun. You've seen a single text stream, who knows what has occurred through other means or in person that tells the whole story? Trickle truth has already begun and, you're probably right, she only stays to buy time to figure things out.

 

You're at the beginning of a very painful process. One person can't fight for a marriage as you'll quickly find out. At the very least, you should begin the 180, pinned at the top of the Infidelity forum and listed below:

 

The 180

 

1. Don’t pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

 

2. No frequent phone calls.

 

3. Don’t point out “good points” in marriage.

 

4. Don’t follow her/him around the house.

 

5. Don’t encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

 

6. Don’t ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.

 

7. Don’t ask for reassurances.

 

8. Don’t buy or give gifts.

 

9. Don’t schedule dates together.

 

10. Don’t keep saying, “I Love You!” Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

 

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

 

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

 

13. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

 

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don’t push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

 

15. If you’re in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

 

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that “they (the wayward partner)” are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…without them!

 

17. Don’t be nasty, angry or even cold – Just pull yourself back. Don’t always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you’re missing.

 

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self-assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

 

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

 

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control. YOURSELF!

 

21. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.

 

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

 

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Hear what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

 

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

 

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

 

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

 

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

 

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

 

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It’s not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don’t care.

 

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

 

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It “ain’t over till it’s over!”

 

32. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

 

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don’t work out with the affair partner.

 

Keep posting...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Ronin3993]

d0nnivain The only answer I've gotten for her feeling trapped is that she has been unhappy for awhile. Also any attempt to bring up MC anymore results in silence, or her "I already agreed to go to individual counseling." I can't get her to open up about things to actually have heart to hearts, its mostly silence or "I don't know" to every question.

 

 

Art_Critic You might be right about moving another guy into the wings, she has been talking more with a guy that she has arranged play dates with (He is also married with a kid). I don't want to snoop again, but I'm actually concerned that she might damage his marriage. She was never diagnosed with PPD but things were rough after childbirth, she claims it was due to our living condition (we were living with my parents while getting set up) and how badly she was injured during. She has been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder but not depression. I actually began suspecting that she may be depressed, but when I kindly broached to topic she reacted very defensively, and said she didn't want to talk about that. I understand I may need to move on and I accept that but I can't do it without exhausting every option first. I've never been one to give up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mr. Lucky Those are the kind of messages I was referring to at the end, I mean I understand them, I want to live by them, but given how this originated I wasn't certain that it would be the best. Hearing your affirmation encourages me to double down on it, so thank you.

[Mr. Lucky]

Mr. Lucky Those are the kind of messages I was referring to at the end, I mean I understand them, I want to live by them, but given how this originated I wasn't certain that it would be the best. Hearing your affirmation encourages me to double down on it, so thank you.

 

Few here would discourage you from fighting for your marriage if that's what you choose.

 

Just be smart about how you go about it and realistic about what you're up against.

 

You'll get a number of "dump her" responses, but there's also lots of good advice from those that have been down this road. Keep your head up and keep posting...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Adiron]

I looked at her phone while she was in the shower (I realize that was a huge mistake, and that I should have never done that

 

 

It wasn't a mistake to look at her phone. Your suspicions were aroused and you did the necessary investigative work and in fact found evidence that she's cheating on you or at least was strongly considering it. It's a huge problem that you feel "badly" about covering your ass and it's something you really need to work on.

 

 

 

when she got home I confessed to her what I had done and apologized for invading her privacy.

 

 

Totally lame action on your part. She's the guilty one, not you. She's the one who needs to be apologizing and running around in circles trying to please you and make things right not the other way around. Women don't respect weak, beta men. Toughen up and give her something to want. Or she'll continue to get it elsewhere.

[somanymistakes]

Women can't stand men who use terms like 'beta'.

 

 

Not true of all women? Neither is your statement.

[Ronin3993]

It wasn't a mistake to look at her phone. Your suspicions were aroused and you did the necessary investigative work and in fact found evidence that she's cheating on you or at least was strongly considering it. It's a huge problem that you feel "badly" about covering your ass and it's something you really need to work on.

Agree to disagree, in retrospect the best option would have been to tell her my suspicions, and demanding to see her phone to prove otherwise, going behind her back to look at her phone (while not nearly as bad as what she did) was still wrong.

Totally lame action on your part. She's the guilty one, not you. She's the one who needs to be apologizing and running around in circles trying to please you and make things right not the other way around. Women don't respect weak, beta men. Toughen up and give her something to want. Or she'll continue to get it elsewhere.

On the latter that is a fair assessment, but its not as though I was crying and groveling when I confessed, I merely attempted to approach the situation with a relatively level head, addressing my own faults and trying to open a dialogue instead of merely punishing her (Which trust me was not easy).

[d0nnivain]

d0nnivain The only answer I've gotten for her feeling trapped is that she has been unhappy for awhile. Also any attempt to bring up MC anymore results in silence, or her "I already agreed to go to individual counseling." I can't get her to open up about things to actually have heart to hearts, its mostly silence or "I don't know" to every question.

.

 

To the extent that Mr. Lucky is encouraging you to be strong, do that. Define strong however you like but don't become a doormat.

 

I can be kind of a jerk when pushed into a corner. In your situation I'd probably do something counter productive like scream:

 

You say you are unhappy & feel trapped but You caused a lot of this mess. When you 1st started feeling unhappy instead of talking to me, your spouse, the person you promised to love, honor & cherish, in good times & bad, til death us to part, you ran off & practically started an affair. I know you said nothing happened but right now I don't believe you. You broke this. You broke me. If you are unwilling to get off your ass, honor your vows & work with me to make this a happy marriage for our kids, just get the F out & start mailing the child support checks. If you don't want that, here's the names of 3-4 local marriage counselors who are willing to work with us. Pick one & make an appointment. Otherwise, leave your keys & tell me where my lawyers can send the paperwork.

 

Again not particularly conciliatory but I'm not one to brook being lied to easily.

 

Agree to disagree, in retrospect the best option would have been to tell her my suspicions, and demanding to see her phone to prove otherwise, going behind her back to look at her phone (while not nearly as bad as what she did) was still wrong..

 

Snooping is never great but when you snoop & hit pay dirt. . . . the snooping diminishes in wrongness by comparison.

[Ronin3993]

To the extent that Mr. Lucky is encouraging you to be strong, do that. Define strong however you like but don't become a doormat.

I've slowly been resolving to be stronger, I've recently started working out again (bought a heavy bag when I learned what she had done). I've started conquering the massive chore list that we've both been neglecting, and I actually think I'm going to take up boxing.

 

You say you are unhappy & feel trapped but You caused a lot of this mess. When you 1st started feeling unhappy instead of talking to me, your spouse, the person you promised to love, honor & cherish, in good times & bad, til death us to part, you ran off & practically started an affair.

Oh trust me, during one of our conversations I nearly said that verbatim, I just didn't scream it, and I didn't give her an ultimatum. Probably because at the time I still held out hope that she would come back and we could work on improving things together.

 

Snooping is never great but when you snoop & hit pay dirt. . . . the snooping diminishes in wrongness by comparison.

That is true but I pride myself on taking responsibility for ones actions and learning from things. And what I learned was there was a better way to handle the situation.

[Adiron]

Agree to disagree, in retrospect the best option would have been to tell her my suspicions, and demanding to see her phone to prove otherwise, going behind her back to look at her phone (while not nearly as bad as what she did) was still wrong.

 

 

Disagree all you want. Your wife can clearly not be trusted, as long as you stay with her (or she stays with you), you'll either live with blinders on and being forced to accept the BS she feeds you and be in a constant state of anxiety and suspicion or you'll check up on her constantly and feel guilty about it because you think it's wrong not to take the word of a person who has lied to you and is most likely being unfaithful.

[JDJ]

I am not convinced she has ended things with the other guy and has made no overture to inspire my trust in her, or any interest in trying to save the marriage. I suspect the only reason she hasn't just left is due to financial instability and our daughter. I still love her and I want her back but I have no idea how. A lot of things I have read are to give her space, focus on improving myself, and let her work through her thoughts/feelings. Which makes complete sense, but I’m worried that since problems began from a lack of time together that doing that would make things worse.

 

Please read what you wrote here and absorb it. Do you plan to be the cuckold husband? Once she has no "interest in trying to save the marriage", you don't get her back. She is already gone with the other man in her head, at least, waiting for the "financial instability" to resolve so that she can jump ship. Do you think that your offer of spending more time with you, the dull husband, can compete with the exciting fantasy of the other man? She does not want more time with you. She wants less time with you ("space"). These are the facts as you have written them. Do not live in a fantasy world of your own making.

[Ronin3993]

She is already gone with the other man in her head, at least, waiting for the "financial instability" to resolve so that she can jump ship.

Well we do not have financial instability together, the financial instability I was referring is that she would encounter were she to live by herself. So it is not like it will ever be resolved. But despite your abrasive tone, I suppose you are correct, there may be no saving the marriage.

 

 

At the moment I want to give her an ultimatum, tell her that if she doesn't take steps to work on the marriage then there is no marriage and she should leave. Honestly, I can't tell whether that is the pain/hurt talking or self-respect, maybe it is both. I think my biggest fears are that I am doing a disservice to my daughter by not trying, and a fear that my wife has depression. Not saying she would get a free pass if that were but it would explain her behavior, people do irrational things while depressed (I mean hell they commit suicide, one of the most irrational things in my opinion) and I don't want to be the man who abandoned her when she needed support. Don't worry I understand "She has already abandoned you" and that it may sound pathetic but it is what is on my mind at the moment.

[S2B]

She isn't checked out due to the OM and her high interest level in only him.

 

She showed signs of concern - under those circumstances you had every right to look at her phone.

 

There's nothing to save if she doesn't end it immediately with the OM.

 

Tell her if she doesn't do that and give complete transparency for all access to her phone and computer etc - then she can move out today.

 

Help her pack one bag.

 

 

Being weak isn't gonna save your marriage.

[Mr. Lucky]

Don't worry I understand "She has already abandoned you" and that it may sound pathetic but it is what is on my mind at the moment.

 

Simple fact - one person can't fix a relationship between two people.

 

So unless she decides to get real with you, you can only worry about protecting yourself and preparing for the future, whatever that might bring.

 

Time to move from denial to action. And in doing so, you may force her to do the same...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Ronin3993]

Well I gave her an ultimatum, she either submit to marriage counseling or she goes. I said I deserve and need to move forward with my life, whether that be working on the marriage or moving on. I told her I deserve to be loved, whether that be her after she fixes herself or someone else. She is taking a drive to think atm but packed a bag in case she doesn't want to come home tonight, I told her she has until tomorrow before she either has to agree to my terms or get out... being strong hurts a lot more than I thought

Edited June 30, 2018 by Ronin3993

[S2B]

Well I gave her an ultimatum, she either submit to marriage counseling or she goes. I said I deserve and need to move forward with my life, whether that be working on the marriage or moving on. I told her I deserve to be loved, whether that be her after she fixes herself or someone else. She is taking a drive to think atm but packed a bag in case she doesn't want to come home tonight, I told her she has until tomorrow before she either has to agree to my terms or get out... being strong hurts a lot more than I thought

 

How much money can she access tonight?

 

You may want to move money into your name only so she can't take it all tomorrow when the bank opens.

 

 

Any possibility she went over to see the coworker? Do you know where he lives?

 

I think you need to do a drive by his house tonight.

Edited June 30, 2018 by S2B

[whichwayisup]

Well I gave her an ultimatum, she either submit to marriage counseling or she goes. I said I deserve and need to move forward with my life, whether that be working on the marriage or moving on. I told her I deserve to be loved, whether that be her after she fixes herself or someone else. She is taking a drive to think atm but packed a bag in case she doesn't want to come home tonight, I told her she has until tomorrow before she either has to agree to my terms or get out... being strong hurts a lot more than I thought

 

Ouch, sorry for your pain. You did the right thing by talking to her.

 

If she leaves, how are you two going to settle custody? Don't let her take off with your child. If she wants out, she can move out but she isn't to take your baby away from you. Especially if there is another man involved.

 

Protect yourself, talk to a lawyer.

[Ronin3993]

If she leaves, how are you two going to settle custody? Don't let her take off with your child. If she wants out, she can move out but she isn't to take your baby away from you. Especially if there is another man involved.

 

Protect yourself, talk to a lawyer.

I'd agree / fight like he'll for 50/50 custody... despite it all she is a good mom, part of the reason I do still love her... But I have to stand by my assessment I deserve to be loved and if she can't agree to at least work on that she had to go...

[Ronin3993]

How much money can she access tonight?

 

You may want to move money into your name only so she can't take it all tomorrow when the bank opens.

 

 

Any possibility she went over to see the coworker? Do you know where he lives?

 

I think you need to do a drive by his house tonight.

 

We still have separate bank accounts, we kept putting it off and it was a non-issue as we would just write each other checks if we needed to... she might have who knows... if she did she isn't coming back so I don't really care... also drive bys are a level of suspicious I never will be

[JDJ]

We still have separate bank accounts, we kept putting it off and it was a non-issue as we would just write each other checks if we needed to... she might have who knows... if she did she isn't coming back so I don't really care... also drive bys are a level of suspicious I never will be

 

Ronin, sorry if you found my tone abrasive. That was not my intention, but I did want to put the facts in front of your face, so to speak, because your initial post seemed so uncertain.

 

It sounds like you have been strong enough with your ultimatum. I would side with you now in your decision not to turn into an antagonistic and suspicious person, battling against your wife.

 

Maybe we are all influenced too much by our own past experiences. In my case, I experienced infidelity but managed to divorce without acrimony or lawyers, and I was able to start a new and better life. So I tend to believe this is possible. Other commenters have different histories. But we are all just commenters here, while it is your life. So don't take me too seriously Good luck!

[Ronin3993]

Well she said she won't be coming home tonight, I know what I did was necessary, but I feel much worse than I had been. I may have been meaner than necessary and I regret that... but I know I have to stand strong, she is the one that has to change

[S2B]

Well she said she won't be coming home tonight, I know what I did was necessary, but I feel much worse than I had been. I may have been meaner than necessary and I regret that... but I know I have to stand strong, she is the one that has to change

 

Where did she say she's staying?

 

Don't cave - you're right, she needs to change.

 

I'd bet money she's really involved with someone. Do you have the child tonight?

[Art_Critic]

If she is with someone else you may get her back quicker than you realize, once it becomes real for the OM he is libel to push back with her, meaning it's fine when he is just getting sex and all but live with her.. totally new level and she may be shocked at his response...

 

 

I think it always takes two to make or break a marriage and if one person has checked out then the only thing left is for that person to do what they need to to feel good about the breakup, if it means going to counseling by themselves till they are strong enough to make the break then fine, if it means filing the next day then fine... it's all fine.. however don't be her doormat...