SevenCity Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 That's the crux of it. I mean, I was shallow in that I went for looks a lot when young, but I also thought a couple of guys were hot that hardly anyone else did, but I did like some really good lookers, though. So I had that problem. A person who gets lonely/horny enough will likely start thinking a broader range of people are attractive. But like Basil said, if they don't, that's a problem they probably just need to shut up about and realize they have a conflict they aren't able to resolve. I never understood women who only liked tall guys. I mean, we all like tall guys, but it's not like other heights aren't also able to be attractive. I never liked it when guys only liked petite girls either. I mean, I actually see this as cowardly, so I read into it, which may be unfair. Tall girls had their day when it was associated with being model-like, but no one seems to want them anymore. I know a really beautiful blonde (used to know) who got some guys but she had to really work on them because they were afraid of her stature. To answer the original question, for me personally, I define someone shallow as someone who will only wear designer clothing and must have the latest everything to feel good about themselves, and unless those people are very rich and money is no object, then I see them as people with such bad self-esteem that they need props to make themselves feel worthy. I knew a guy who exemplified that once, and he had a fun personality sometimes but always dissolved into a blathering drunken unhappy mess eventually. He had no money (I know because he was my assistant) but he spent it on anything with showing a label on the outside. Now, I actually am embarrassed to wear anything with a label showing. Like I remove the patch from Ralph Lauren blazers...hate logos. But everyone is different. Cowardly for not liking tall women? There’s a new one. My preference has always been short, petite women. I’ve dated tall women and don’t really find them attractive. Not sure how that makes me a coward. But I agree that taller women have a more difficult time finding men. It was not common for me to find women shorter than 5’8” on bumble. Kids today are giants so I suspect men will have to deal with tall women. I often see ones who dwarf my 6’ stature. Both girls and boys. I blame all the horomones in food. Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 I consider anything under 10' shallow, you can usually see the bottom, Anything over that requires sinkers and depending on the current, a-lot-of-em, Some may argue that 10' isn't shallow at all and is considered quite deep, Those are the people that haven't ever fished in a lake with shorelines quite steep! Lol. There’s also my personal favorite - “He’s not deep enough to be shallow.” Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Cowardly for not liking tall women? There’s a new one. My preference has always been short, petite women. I’ve dated tall women and don’t really find them attractive. Not sure how that makes me a coward. But I agree that taller women have a more difficult time finding men. It was not common for me to find women shorter than 5’8” on bumble. Kids today are giants so I suspect men will have to deal with tall women. I often see ones who dwarf my 6’ stature. Both girls and boys. I blame all the horomones in food. Tall women=Big feet... TFY Link to post Share on other sites
S_A Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) What about the women who make the call of another being shallow? What about it? Anyone is free to call anyone shallow. Not interested in a Man vs Woman discussion tbh. But if you mean when a woman calls a man shallow because he wants a blonde with perky tits and a nice ass, well, it's how men are wired. Not sure how natural wiring can be shallow. Deep down us men have some "coding" that tries to push us to younger and healthier looking women. I'd say any woman that calls a man shallow for pursuing these younger ladies to be a woman who is probably approaching her mid 30's and is likely starting to feel "obsolete." Edited June 30, 2018 by S_A Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 What’s more interesting is how women primarily dismiss you for something over which you have no control (height, hair). Umm, you absolutely have control over your hair! Trust me, the lush locks you see on supermodels aren't exactly what they were born with (or even got out of bed that day with), lol. Even the male supermodels get quite a lot done to their hair and weren't born with it. Height preferences tend to work both ways - and you yourself mentioned that you have them. I'm not really seeing any double standard in that. Anyway, I don't blame or fault anyone for being "shallow" or not. Really, the only person who gets hurt from excessive "shallowness" is themselves - if someone's requirements are too limiting, aren't compatible with a good partner, or are unrealistic compared to what they offer... then they will either struggle to find someone, or find themselves hopping from bad R to bad R. It's entirely their prerogative to choose such. Even though personality and connection has always been my #1 priority, I certainly admit that I have a few "shallow" preferences as far as attraction goes. Most of those preferences aren't related to appearance, but they're still surface-deep. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 In many cases, "shallowness' as observed by others is just someone deciding actually what they want, because they don't need many of the other aspects of a conventional relationship... For example... I guy could be called shallow for dismissing a caring person over one that is perhaps more selfish, but maybe they don't really need a caring/nurturing type of woman...They may actually prefer the more independent type.. Some guys like motherly types of women, so they can't be shallow...They will have to get that even if it means they have to settle for a less attractive woman.. Women do it too...You see older and financially independent women looking for bad boys., or boy toy types...They don't have to settle for the donkey dad bod type of provider, so they are free to go for the better looking guy... Is that shallow? Maybe to the outside world. but it really isn't...Its only people filling a particular need, rather then choosing someone for fulfill some other non superficial needs... TFY Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 What about it? Anyone is free to call anyone shallow. Not interested in a Man vs Woman discussion tbh. But if you mean when a woman calls a man shallow because he wants a blonde with perky tits and a nice ass, well, it's how men are wired. Not sure how natural wiring can be shallow. Deep down us men have some "coding" that tries to push us to younger and healthier looking women. I'd say any woman that calls a man shallow for pursuing these younger ladies to be a woman who is probably approaching her mid 30's and is likely starting to feel "obsolete." Well, that's like saying that any man who calls a woman shallow for angling for a rich man who spends lavishly on them is probably an "unemployed useless bum". Sure, some are, some aren't - same goes with the women in your scenario. It IS kind of "shallow" to prioritize money or tits over who a person is inside, despite the biological wiring you mention. But hey, it's a free world, nothing wrong with being "shallow" if that's what truly makes you happy. Link to post Share on other sites
Garlend Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 "Shallow" is denying oneself a potentially wonderful relationship because the person of interest is perceived to be flawed in some way that destroys the attraction. And I'm not referring to bad hygiene, which I do find unacceptable, because, unless they're homeless, this nasty condition is their fault. I remember my troubled high school days when I became infatuated with a student art teacher. She was a beautiful little lady with a gorgeous smile. And she took an almost immediate interest in me as a student. Now, the shocker. This petite little lady with a radiant personality suffered a horribly withered left arm and left leg. I have no idea what could have caused this terrible deformity, but I rarely noticed it, because, rather she was aware of the fact or not, she made my young heart pound. Okay, I met this same lady on an off campus sidewalk after high school. We were both delighted to meet again. And we chatted for a lengthy period together. And I wanted to hold her and kiss her so bad at this time, it was all I could do to restrain myself, because I intuitively suspected she would not have objected to this bold maneuver on my part in the slightest. But, it wasn't the first time I denied myself something good by playing the gentleman. And it certainly wasn't the last time either. Link to post Share on other sites
S_A Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) It IS kind of "shallow" to prioritize money or tits over who a person is inside, despite the biological wiring you mention. I am undecided. For instance, it does seem that there is a biological push towards hypergamy in women. Edit: There is definitely a difference though between women that go after men with money. Some women may be lazy and/or have lost desire to work to maintain their independence, while others seem to be involuntarily attracted to men with money/power. Men on the other hand tend more towards indifference when it comes to women with celebrity and/or money. Edited June 30, 2018 by S_A Link to post Share on other sites
SevenCity Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Tall women=Big feet... TFY OMG that is the number one issue I have with tall women! As attractive as they may be, I can never overlook big feet. Size 7+ is just too much for me. Link to post Share on other sites
SevenCity Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Umm, you absolutely have control over your hair! Trust me, the lush locks you see on supermodels aren't exactly what they were born with (or even got out of bed that day with), lol. Even the male supermodels get quite a lot done to their hair and weren't born with it. Height preferences tend to work both ways - and you yourself mentioned that you have them. I'm not really seeing any double standard in that. Anyway, I don't blame or fault anyone for being "shallow" or not. Really, the only person who gets hurt from excessive "shallowness" is themselves - if someone's requirements are too limiting, aren't compatible with a good partner, or are unrealistic compared to what they offer... then they will either struggle to find someone, or find themselves hopping from bad R to bad R. It's entirely their prerogative to choose such. Even though personality and connection has always been my #1 priority, I certainly admit that I have a few "shallow" preferences as far as attraction goes. Most of those preferences aren't related to appearance, but they're still surface-deep. I was referencing guys who lose their hair. Not much you can do about that (though you will be a billionaire if you’ve figured that out). As far as short women, that’s my preference and not most guys. A lot of guys prefer tall leggy women - few women prefer short guys. But like I said, looks are just a filter. I’ve been with amazingly hot women who were selfish and immature. I don’t stay with them. Link to post Share on other sites
littleblackheart Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 If you have standards in terms of emotional maturity or some compatibility traits that matter to you personally, then it's not shallow to have personal preferences for physical traits. I don't really have specific physical prerequisites myself but I can see why others would. If the physical is all that matters to you and you are prepared to overlook important signs of incompatibility as a trade-off for being with your 'type', that's when shallowness comes into it I guess. That doesn't seem to be your case. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Echo74 Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 I think a person is shallow when they prioritize looks over all else. When you are thinking about your ideal partner, and the first thing that comes to mind is just a bunch of physical features, you are shallow. The physical attraction is what generally draws a person in, but what must follow are similar values and personality attributes of that person. If I was attracted to a person he has to also have similar values as well as kindness, intelligence, integrity, etc., etc. If not, I don't lower my standard just because of physical looks. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Echo74 Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 Everyone is way too hard on themselves. Quit worrying and live your life with whomever and whatever way you see fit. It's not shallow... it's not anything. It just is. Heh, heh, I agree. I was just curious. The woman who made the statement about "quit being shallow about height" is 6 ft. tall and I'm pretty sure her husband is shorter. No one has ever told me that my preference for a specific ethnicity or height are shallow because they know that it takes more than physical looks for me to be interested in the guy. OMG that is the number one issue I have with tall women! As attractive as they may be, I can never overlook big feet. Size 7+ is just too much for me. Your comment tickled my funny bone! I'm only 5'3" and have always been slim built with size 8 1/2 feet. Up until I was in my late 20's I was so embarrassed about my big feet. Now that I'm much older I don't care one way or another. But I do like painted toenails just so that my feet look more feminine, lol. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Echo74 Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 If you have standards in terms of emotional maturity or some compatibility traits that matter to you personally, then it's not shallow to have personal preferences for physical traits. I don't really have specific physical prerequisites myself but I can see why others would. If the physical is all that matters to you and you are prepared to overlook important signs of incompatibility as a trade-off for being with your 'type', that's when shallowness comes into it I guess. That doesn't seem to be your case. Do you have ethnicity preferences? Or have you/would you date any and all ethnicities? Ethnicity would be my top preference. Unfortunately I don't care to date anyone in my own ethnicity. Been there, done that, no longer interested. Plus I rarely meet any who are NOT from my state so they all pretty much remind me of my brothers in the way they speak, walk, questions they ask upon first meeting. Anyway, I think that most people do have an ethnicity preference but some would never admit it. Link to post Share on other sites
SevenCity Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Heh, heh, I agree. I was just curious. The woman who made the statement about "quit being shallow about height" is 6 ft. tall and I'm pretty sure her husband is shorter. No one has ever told me that my preference for a specific ethnicity or height are shallow because they know that it takes more than physical looks for me to be interested in the guy. Your comment tickled my funny bone! I'm only 5'3" and have always been slim built with size 8 1/2 feet. Up until I was in my late 20's I was so embarrassed about my big feet. Now that I'm much older I don't care one way or another. But I do like painted toenails just so that my feet look more feminine, lol. That’s huge feet for 5’3”! Glad you are ok with it - I don’t think a lot of guys care but we all have our issues lol. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
littleblackheart Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) Do you have ethnicity preferences? Or have you/would you date any and all ethnicities? I'm really not fussed at all re ethnicity, height, eye colour, hair colour, etc. but I can totally accept why anyone would have a particular type. It's not shallow at all, though I think it's probably linked with a repeated pattern of behaviour or a psychological block of some sort you can't get a certain ex out of your head or you steer away from a specific ethnicity because of one bad experience or like you, they all remind you of your brothers, or you are inconsciously stuck in a loop of mistakes. The bottom line is if you manage to.find men of your chosen ethnicity to date and you maintain your standards for all other things, continue to do what works for you. If you are physically attracted to someone who is compatible with you and who treats you right, it's all good! Edited June 30, 2018 by littleblackheart 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Echo74 Posted July 1, 2018 Author Share Posted July 1, 2018 That’s huge feet for 5’3”! Glad you are ok with it - I don’t think a lot of guys care but we all have our issues lol. I know right?!! Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 What about it? Anyone is free to call anyone shallow. Not interested in a Man vs Woman discussion tbh. But if you mean when a woman calls a man shallow because he wants a blonde with perky tits and a nice ass, well, it's how men are wired. Not sure how natural wiring can be shallow. Deep down us men have some "coding" that tries to push us to younger and healthier looking women. I'd say any woman that calls a man shallow for pursuing these younger ladies to be a woman who is probably approaching her mid 30's and is likely starting to feel "obsolete." I'll only call them shallow if they won't settle for someone without X, Y and Z but then complains about being single. If they are doing well in their search and doesn't complain to me, then good luck to them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 I am undecided. For instance, it does seem that there is a biological push towards hypergamy in women. Edit: There is definitely a difference though between women that go after men with money. Some women may be lazy and/or have lost desire to work to maintain their independence, while others seem to be involuntarily attracted to men with money/power. Men on the other hand tend more towards indifference when it comes to women with celebrity and/or money. There is a biological push towards the female sex choosing a mate who has the resources and inclination to provide for them, yes. Heck, wild mares, zebras, etc will literally leave their current mate and immediately join the new male who gains control of the waterhole. But the good thing about being human is that we have this fancy thing called a prefrontal cortex. That amazing piece of machinery prevents us from taking a dump in public, from killing the guy next door to take over his nice house... and from behaving like a shallow douche/bitch in terms of relationship behaviour. So, regardless of biological wiring, I do think it's fair to consider it "shallow" if someone prioritizes looks or money over anything else that makes a person a person. Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_K Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 Being 5'11", the 'guys must be 6' or more' grates on me a little. So, if I was 2.5cm taller I'm 'tall', but now I'm 'too short'? It's not significant in real life, but on something like Tinder... I've been unmatched for being 5'11" while a friend of mine gets great reactions when he says he is 6'. But beyond arbitrary cut-off points, everyone is entitled to be as picky as they want with regards to looks. I wouldn't class it as shallow unless it's a really minor thing that you're dismissing someone's entire personality for. Otherwise, attraction is important so you've every right to go for it, just expect that the less you offer in return the harder it'll be. Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 (edited) Being 5'11", the 'guys must be 6' or more' grates on me a little. So, if I was 2.5cm taller I'm 'tall', but now I'm 'too short'? As a woman who's 5'7 and has dated (and married 2) men who are my height or smaller, I find the whole male height thing laughable. Height and personality are generally not related - unless you're Napoleon. Shallow, shallow, shallow. Edited to add: apparently I have to rethink my previous stance about only saying "shallow" if one complains about a lack of partners.... Edited July 1, 2018 by basil67 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 As a woman who's 5'7 and has dated (and married 2) men who are my height or smaller, I find the whole male height thing laughable. Height and personality are generally not related - unless you're Napoleon. Shallow, shallow, shallow. Edited to add: apparently I have to rethink my previous stance about only saying "shallow" if one complains about a lack of partners.... I guess height is just part of the whole "looks" thing. Objectively, I do think that it "looks" nice when the man has 6+ inches over me (not too difficult when you're 5'!). But I've had a crush on a guy who was barely 5'3" before. Intellect, wit, connection... all of that completely overrides the "objective" perception of how people look in a photo, to me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 I guess height is just part of the whole "looks" thing. Objectively, I do think that it "looks" nice when the man has 6+ inches over me (not too difficult when you're 5'!). But I've had a crush on a guy who was barely 5'3" before. Intellect, wit, connection... all of that completely overrides the "objective" perception of how people look in a photo, to me. Haha, I've been 6+ inches taller than a date before (in heels) but never the other way around. FWIW, the guy who I was 6+ taller than was dead keen on me. Didn't go anywhere because he was long distance and I refused to consider it, but I still think it's great when a guy has the confidence to date a taller woman. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 In my entire lifetime,I have always been magnetically and subconsciously attracted to a specific body type in a woman...Even back in HS, it was always the same...It was so powerful that there were times where other girls/women were invisible to me unless they fit that "look"...Its really crazy...Even just flipping the channels on the tv, I always tend to stop and gaze a bit, when I see what I consider my ideal.. So, in a lot of these cases, I can't say that's shallow...You are only seeking what is somehow burned into your brain...Id say if you choose to deliberately not go there with the idea that you are expanding your horizons and opening yourself up to something else, you may never be truly happy... I know this probably sounds immature and silly, but hey, it is what it is... TFY Link to post Share on other sites
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