husband duped / not paying attention

[BettyDraper]

My sister swears her husband does this with washing dishes. She never complains about the dirty dishes she pulls out of the cupboards, though. It's like a power struggle.

 

I've witnessed men doing the same because they would rather be lazy and play video games or watch sports. I think that behavior is rather pathetic and childish. We all have duties in life. Being helpful to our spouses is one of them if we don't want resentment to poison our marriages.

 

Women are usually socialized to be caregivers so we put the comfort of others ahead of ourselves. We also excuse immaturity and incompetence from men. Men are not typically socialized to think of others so selfish behavior becomes the norm for them until they are alerted to it. A close friend of mine has a husband who wants another child. They have a 5 year old. My friend refuses to have another baby because her husband barely helps with their first child. How someone can ask about having another baby while doing nothing to help his spouse is beyond me. It's just so selfish. My friend had the flu recently and her husband actually asked her to get out of bed and make taco salad for him. There was no consideration for the fact that my friend was ill.

 

The point I am making is that wives need to stop coddling husbands and set firm boundaries. That's the only way marriages will become more equitable in terms of chores and childrearing.

[Maraud3r]

Thanks for the laugh.

Same right back to you. I was mostly addressing S2B and her take on the situation/attitude rather than yours. Yours never came off anywhere near as extreme and aggressive albeit slightly leaning into a certain direction.

[Maraud3r]

Some people think that wives should never voice any negative opinions in a marriage. They think that husbands’ egos are more important. A real man would be able to handle a justified negative reaction to his behavior, provided that the reaction was measured and calm.

Who are those some people? Because that's certain not me. So stating this in your response to her response to me seems, odd. My problem isn't with criticism or voicing opinions. It's with the approach taken here which moves very far out of the boundaries of how two adults, two adults in a relationship of equals should interact with one another.

 

Because it's approaching the opposite of what you said here, a relationship where the wife acts more like the mother and authority figure who has to deal with the unruly and childish husband.

[knitwit]

@dOnnivain, I think your reaction to his anger is very normal! You have every reason to react negatively. There is nothing wrong with you and the answer is for your husband to better handle his emotions, not for you to get a thicker skin.

 

It cracks me up to see people posting that he is being baby-fied because of her requests to grocery shop with lists and pictures; actually, he should be held accountable for his immature angry outbursts. As a grown up he should have enough ego control to handle this without going off on the OP.

 

Re shopping lists: everyone has strengths and weaknesses. I realize that you were in a pinch, but I would try to do the shopping as often as possible. My H will blow our entire week's budget on a single meal if I send him out. It is just is what it is. I pick my battles. There are things that are very easy for him to do and I will never be able to them adequately, let alone well.

[Kamille]

Who said superior? He was being incompetent after clear instructions.

 

Why are you making clear excuses for inadequate performance?

 

She should be able to question him reasonably after he failed miserably... and she wasn't being mean - he was inadequate and he knew it... to the point of being defensive.

 

He didn't fail or perform inadequately. Was is he, her employee? He went to the store and brought back the right protein, just not in the format, the quantity or at the price she wanted.

 

Heck, that's minor. So minor that I think most people would do as she did and simply point it out (hey, why did you buy this instead of the cheaper kind) or roll with it. And yes, have a few nights of pasta that week, which is not a punishment. Who the heck doesn't like pasta?

 

It's too bad he felt criticized when she pointed it out - and that might speak to some undercurrent between them. At the same time, it's now all sorted, so what are we even arguing about?

[anika99]

My gut still says he did it on purpose by acting like a child.

 

Since he's incapable of simple tasks - take him and hold his hand through it like he is a child.

 

Seriously a grown man who can't grocery shop? He is spoiled and acting like a brat.

 

My kids did better when they were 10 years old.

 

 

Quit spoiling him. I stand by my suggestion of VERY simple meals (3 this week) since he didn't buy enough for the six meals you planned.

 

Or... let him return to the market and spend next to nothing to plan AND cook three meals himself. Does he cook often?

 

Good Lord! Do people really treat their spouses this way? You sound so punitive and retaliatory. So the OP's husband sucks at grocery shopping. Big freaking deal! Can you do every single thing that your husband does? Equally as well as he does it?

 

The OP's husband went grocery shopping and screwed it up. That doesn't mean he needs to be treated like a child or that his wife should impose some sort of punitive consequences on him. In my last longterm relationship my SO did the bulk of the cooking because he loved to cook and he was better at than me. But when he worked late and couldn't do it then I did it. If I messed something up or didn't prepare something as he liked he never said a word. I would be the one to call attention to my mistakes and he would make me feel better by pointing out all the things I did well.

 

God help him if he treated me like you are suggesting the OP treat her husband.

"Well this chicken isn't cooked right. You must be doing this on purpose, guess I'm going to have to hold your hand like a child and teach you the right way to cook. Meanwhile, you can eat rice and beans for the next 3 days because I don't have time to cook" Oh, HELL TO THE NO!!

 

That is not a healthy adult way for people to treat each other. I can only imagine the kind of problems that kind of behaviour would lead to in a marriage, If one person is screwing up on purpose just to be passive aggressive then that is a much bigger and different problem and requires counselling. Not being treated like a child or being punished.

[No_Go]

Betty I am pretty sure the price is not much different. What people don't include in the cooking costs is, on top of price of groceries is 1) gas/electricity used, 2) water/detergents for dishwashing 3) cookware (very expensive!)/ cookware wear&tear 4) time (that can be used to make money e.g. with longer working hours).

 

It is the same with owning a car vs ubering around. I've done both and can say for sure I spend more owning a car vs using car shares and my car is brand new so needs minimal maintenance. Imagine an old one that needs repairs every other day...

 

Cleaning - it is maaaaybe still cheaper to DIY although this is also arguable if you include the cost of your own time.

 

Just nowadays services become a hobby not a necessity. Almost nobody nowadays sews their own clothes because the confection is so cheap. Same thing will happen with cooking sooner than later.

 

That's why it's a bit mind boggling when people talk about a 'burden' of house chores, husband/wife responsibilities etc. It's a want not a need.

 

 

Cooking is a life skill because buying cooked items and frozen items becomes expensive. Being unable or unwilling to cook shows a lack of responsibility and maturity. Most people have families with children at some point so cooking becomes a necessity at that point due to cost.

 

Being able to cook, clean and grocery shop are all basic tasks of adulthood.

 

As for the OP, I don’t believe that it’s unreasonable to expect a spouse to be able to follow basic instructions. Perhaps spouses who do not wish to be treated like children should behave like adults. An intelligent grown person should be able to follow a grocery list unless he cannot read. Unfortunately, it’s quite common for men to be clueless about domestic tasks because most men are coddled by parents and then wives when it comes to such matters. I don’t understand why men’s incompetence in this area is laughed off. I find it hard to respect adults who cannot be trusted with simple everyday tasks.

 

While I believe that respect and appreciation are extremely important to men, it is not helpful to tiptoe around men’s emotions to protect their egos. This creates an unhealthy imbalance in a marriage. Lashing out for no good reason is unbecoming for an adult. Constructive criticism is necessary even if it doesn’t always feel good.

[Els]

 

As for the OP, I don’t believe that it’s unreasonable to expect a spouse to be able to follow basic instructions. Perhaps spouses who do not wish to be treated like children should behave like adults. An intelligent grown person should be able to follow a grocery list unless he cannot read. Unfortunately, it’s quite common for men to be clueless about domestic tasks because most men are coddled by parents and then wives when it comes to such matters. I don’t understand why men’s incompetence in this area is laughed off. I find it hard to respect adults who cannot be trusted with simple everyday tasks.

 

 

It's not a gender thing. If a man reacted in S2B's manner towards his wife who came back from the hardware store with the wrong item ("cold showers for the next 3 days for you!!!" ), I'd tell her to seriously reconsider her marriage, too. (The OP's reaction was fine IMO, and she and her H seem to have worked it out, so I see no issue there)

[No_Go]

LOL my list is about the same sans the alcoholic stuff. I though everybody keeps their bread in the fridge? I've been doing that since I start living alone.

 

convenient, affordable, and lots of options - that's the thing - with prices dropping grocery shopping/cooking is no longer a necessity. I'm sure with the hidden costs (utilities, cookware, time etc) it is 9/10 times MORE expensive to make a home dish than buy one.

 

The whole aspect of splitting 'chores' between spouses boggles my mind. There is nearly nothing to be done in a family without kids besides hobby things like home repairs or cooking or gardening (yup, I enjoy home repairs- I don't NEED to do it but it's fun to do it like in the olden days instead of hiring a handyman). Nothing essential that takes substantial amount of time I mean.

 

I just checked my fridge. It's full, but with...

 

- Four tubs of cold pressed avo

- A tub of greek yogurt

- A few punnets of berries, other fruits

- Lots of different drinks. Non-alch, beer, wine...

- Few types of cheese

- Various spreads and jams

- Bread (yes, we keep this in the fridge)

- Eggs (yes, yes...)

 

Not much that we can cook with, haha. We usually cook only 1-2x/week nowadays, since food delivery in this city is so convenient, affordable, and lots of options. We did cook a lot more often when we lived in a small town and I was only working part-time, though. Now that I'm working full-time, honestly I can't be arsed most of the time. The SO is actually a really good cook, but he just doesn't have the time to do it on weekdays due to his work hours, and weekends (if he's not working) are date nights.

[Els]

Betty I am pretty sure the price is not much different. What people don't include in the cooking costs is, on top of price of groceries is 1) gas/electricity used, 2) water/detergents for dishwashing 3) cookware (very expensive!)/ cookware wear&tear 4) time (that can be used to make money e.g. with longer working hours).

 

I actually did the math here - we'd save $10-15 by cooking, compared to eating at an affordable hole-in-the-wall place. However, it'd take about an hour for prep + cooking + dishes + cleanup, not counting extra time for groceries/inventory. Personally, I don't find $10/hr to be a good salary...

 

Although, I'd say that it isn't just about the money. Some people like to be able to know exactly what goes into their food, or sometimes there aren't many affordable food options close by, etc etc. Even money-wise, it's not necessarily easy for everyone to be able to pick up additional side income, so there may not be the option of working for the extra cash (it's easy in my field, but not in all fields). That's all completely understandable.

 

There can be joy in cooking (and then eating) together, too, if a couple has the time and inclination.

[Els]

convenient, affordable, and lots of options - that's the thing - with prices dropping grocery shopping/cooking is no longer a necessity. I'm sure with the hidden costs (utilities, cookware, time etc) it is 9/10 times MORE expensive to make a home dish than buy one.

 

 

Really depends on where you live. IME this is true in the big cities, not really true in most other places. We once lived in a tiny town where literally the only affordable options were fast food and terrible greasy faux-Asian food (I say faux-Asian because authentic Asian food is nothing like that). You better believe we cooked a lot there, lol...

[No_Go]

I agree with your analysis and it can definitely be a bonding experience to cook and then eat together. Even I (someone who's totally content with ice cream dinners ) start doing it for bonding purposes.

 

But here people say D0n's husband is incompetent and lacking life skills?! C''mon. There was an issue and it was his anger management, provoked or not... But not 'life skills'.

 

On a side note, I'm not that sure that eating home is healthier either. The lack of proper QC of food prep is a big thing to underestimate...

 

 

I actually did the math here - we'd save $10-15 by cooking, compared to eating at an affordable hole-in-the-wall place. However, it'd take about an hour for prep + cooking + dishes + cleanup, not counting extra time for groceries/inventory. Personally, I don't find $10/hr to be a good salary...

 

Although, I'd say that it isn't just about the money. Some people like to be able to know exactly what goes into their food, or sometimes there aren't many affordable food options close by, etc etc. Even money-wise, it's not necessarily easy for everyone to be able to pick up additional side income, so there may not be the option of working for the extra cash (it's easy in my field, but not in all fields). That's all completely understandable.

 

There can be joy in cooking (and then eating) together, too, if a couple has the time and inclination.

[SJS]

To add, I’m not sure how this “following her to the grocery store so that he can teach him” is going to work. Next time, just send him a snapshot of the coupon and he can ask the people working there: “Where can I find this chicken/steak that is currently on sale?”

 

This.

My husband is a major DIY'er. I can't tell you how many times he's been in the middle of a project, under a car, whatever, and needs X part. He's not going to stop in the middle of the project to run to the hardware or auto parts store, so off I go, completely out of my element. And I always ask for help so I don't bring home the wrong item (granted, you can make any chicken breast work but can't substitute a 3/4" pipe when 1/2" is needed). Point being, that's what the workers are there for and if he isn't sure, he needs to step up and ask. It may only be $10 this trip, but add up $10 on all the trips in a month and that's a bill you could've paid.

[BettyDraper]

I agree with your analysis and it can definitely be a bonding experience to cook and then eat together. Even I (someone who's totally content with ice cream dinners ) start doing it for bonding purposes.

 

But here people say D0n's husband is incompetent and lacking life skills?! C''mon. There was an issue and it was his anger management, provoked or not... But not 'life skills'.

 

On a side note, I'm not that sure that eating home is healthier either. The lack of proper QC of food prep is a big thing to underestimate...

 

All of the costs of cooking you mentioned are completely irrelevant because you would have used the time, money, and utilities saved for other tasks. I find your explanation funny. I’m sure you’re not sitting at work thinking “I saved 34.65 minutes by buying my meals. Now I can stay at work for that amount of time!” Also, your argument about taking the time to earn more money doesn’t make sense for those who are not paid hourly.

 

When you eat at restaurants or buy prepared meals at supermarkets, you have no idea which ingredients are in your food. Cooking at home means that you have the opportunity to see exactly which ingredients are in your meals.

 

Reading comprehension and being able to follow clear instructions are both necessary skills needed to survive in the world. So is being able to nourish yourself by buying and preparing food. I don’t think these concepts are difficult to grasp.

Edited July 7, 2018 by BettyDraper

[No_Go]

When I bought my home I decided to step up my cooking game and buy the necessary equipment. I don’t even want to think of how much money I spent on pots and pans, if I had to buy the appliances it would have been 10x worse. Having a functional kitchen comes with HUGE upfront cost that people forget about?

 

The utilities used for cooking you’d use for what else? It’s an added expense.

 

For ingredients you’re right, I still believe getting the proper QC that quality food facilities provide (any actually, they’ll get closed otherwise) offsets the potential health benefit of home cooking.

 

For time, I’m personally not paid hourly but leaving 2 hours earlier each day to do ‘chores at home’ is sure going to have an effect on my pay by simply not getting promoted because if not getting things done...

 

Anyway, both positions are valid life choices, the only time I see it as an issue is if two spouses / family members have vastly different idea of which choice is ‘better’... and poke each other for it...

 

All of the costs of cooking you mentioned are completely irrelevant because you would have used the time, money, and utilities saved for other tasks. I find your explanation funny. I’m sure you’re not sitting at work thinking “I saved 34.65 minutes by buying my meals. Now I can stay at work for that amount of time!” Also, your argument about taking the time to earn more money doesn’t make sense for those who are not paid hourly.

 

When you eat at restaurants or buy prepared meals at supermarkets, you have no idea which ingredients are in your food. Cooking at home means that you have the opportunity to see exactly which ingredients are in your meals.

 

Reading comprehension and being able to follow clear instructions are both necessary skills needed to survive in the world. So is being able to nourish yourself by buying and preparing food. I don’t think these concepts are difficult to grasp.

[Robert]

***Moderator's Note***

 

Let's swing the posts back to the topic please and let's also not post insults disguised as advice.

 

Thread starter, if you would like this thread closed then alert on a post and we will do so, thanks

 

Robert

[camillalev]

Hey OP, did you hear, it's cheaper to just eat out for every meal. Or just get a private chef to make all your meals for you, because that too is super afforable

 

I ordered affordable delivery for three meals recently and the price of the food, delivery fee, tax, and tip still added up to what could have been a week of groceries that covered breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Maybe it depends on where you live? In most cities like LA, NYC, SF, Austin, etc, grocery shopping is far cheaper than ordering delivery everyday or eating out mutiple times a day. In smaller towns, I have no idea.

 

OP, It's clear to your husband has to learn how to do these things. It may seem like small beans now, but if you ever have kids(which will impact your finances in a big way) and he doesn't know how to shop for necessities like food on a budget, it will become a bigger issue. It seems like you don't want to be one of those wives who work during the day then comes home and does everything for your family, including your husband. He needs to and will need to know how to show up for you. Buying food and spending within a budget is a basic adult skill, particularly when looking after a family. Not knowing the difference between a chicken thigh and a chicken breast is pretty strange for someone in their 40s. Has he never ordered a plate of buffulo chicken wings/drumsticks and had a preference? Or ordered fried chicken with different chicken parts? Or seen a turkey on thanksgiving?

 

Does your husband care about eating healthily? If not that might just be a difference in values. Some people are fine eating instant ramen and frozen chicken nuggets for every meal, or ordering out thai. If that's the case, show him what it is you're looking for as far as grocery shopping.

We can argue all day about how he doesn't know xyz at whatever age, but if this is important to you and you want him to be able to contribute to grocery shopping/bringing healthy food home/grocery shopping for two(or a family) on a budget, guide him. If he's genuinely clueless he'll catch on with time. If he's acting this way on purpose as some have suggested, I think it'll become pretty obvious.

Edited July 8, 2018 by camillalev

[Els]

I don't understand why everyone keeps talking about kids. AFAIK OP has no kids and doesn't ever plan to have kids. Perhaps she can chime in on that?

 

Our last food delivery bill came up to a whopping $30 for two people, inclusive of everything. We got a good spread of rice, Hainanese chicken, a veggie dish, a special chili paste, and noodle soup in real chicken broth... all of which would have taken over 15 ingredients costing $20+ and over an hour to make. Granted you COULD cook something simpler and less tasty for less than $20... but the point is that the value for money wasn't horrible.

 

 

 

I agree that it's important that both spouses see things the same way, though.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Elswyth

[Els]

All of the costs of cooking you mentioned are completely irrelevant because you would have used the time, money, and utilities saved for other tasks. I find your explanation funny. I’m sure you’re not sitting at work thinking “I saved 34.65 minutes by buying my meals. Now I can stay at work for that amount of time!” Also, your argument about taking the time to earn more money doesn’t make sense for those who are not paid hourly.

 

An example of how this worked out for me - putting cooking on the back burner for a bit enabled me to focus on putting extra effort/time into my job, which got me a raise of $1000/month (which is actually fairly small as far as raises go). That's an extra $30+/day - it more than made up for the amount spent on eating out. Plus, your career tends to be exponential.

 

Could I have gotten it while STILL cooking on a daily basis? I doubt so. Not without seriously jeopardizing my health, sanity, or relationship in the process, anyway. I firmly believe that R&R time is more important towards all aspects of life (including job performance and consequently earning potential), than people give it credit for.

 

There is always a tradeoff for everything. Saving money at the expense of time may be necessary in some contexts, less important in others. It really depends on the individual and the situation. It's entirely valid for the OP to value money more at this stage, but it's not necessarily a black-and-white thing for EVERYONE.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Elswyth

[JuneL]

Elswyth’s post above made a few good points. Personally, I enjoy cooking sometimes and enjoy picking up some new recipes. But I’ve also seen plenty who claimed they know how to cook, but their typical meal may consist of putting salt and pepper on some chicken breasts and put them in whatever kitchenware/instrument, and boiling some frozen vegetables.

[d0nnivain]

I don't understand why everyone keeps talking about kids. AFAIK OP has no kids and doesn't ever plan to have kids. Perhaps she can chime in on that?

 

No kids & well past the time that they are an option.

 

I made the expensive organic chicken the other night & my husband made a joke out of it, which I appreciated. He said since we're gonna have the fancy chicken we need the good china. He actually got out our wedding china, washed it, set the table, lit some candles & babbled on & on about how much better this chicken was then plain old chicken. For a minute I thought he was serious. I asked if he could taste the difference because I couldn't & I have a more delicate palate then he does. He looked at me like I was daft & carried on about the alleged superiority of this chicken. It was all great fun. But that is what I love about my husband -- his uncanny ability to make me laugh.

[Zapbasket]

I've witnessed men doing the same because they would rather be lazy and play video games or watch sports. I think that behavior is rather pathetic and childish. We all have duties in life. Being helpful to our spouses is one of them if we don't want resentment to poison our marriages.

 

Women are usually socialized to be caregivers so we put the comfort of others ahead of ourselves. We also excuse immaturity and incompetence from men. Men are not typically socialized to think of others so selfish behavior becomes the norm for them until they are alerted to it. A close friend of mine has a husband who wants another child. They have a 5 year old. My friend refuses to have another baby because her husband barely helps with their first child. How someone can ask about having another baby while doing nothing to help his spouse is beyond me. It's just so selfish. My friend had the flu recently and her husband actually asked her to get out of bed and make taco salad for him. There was no consideration for the fact that my friend was ill.

 

The point I am making is that wives need to stop coddling husbands and set firm boundaries. That's the only way marriages will become more equitable in terms of chores and childrearing.

 

I had exactly the same problem with a guy I dated in my twenties. I didn't have a dishwasher and he washed the dishes and did a terrible job--as in, whole food chunks you could see from across the room stuck to the "washed" plates. I tried so hard to not say anything but finally I just threw it out there: "Are you only half-washing the dishes on purpose so I'll do that chore, and not you?"

 

To his credit, he immediately (and sheepishly) copped to it. He said his mother assigned him to wash the dishes growing up and he'd purposefully do a terrible job so that she'd stop asking him.

 

And that's the problem right there. If his mom had set him straight instead of giving in, I wouldn't have had the problem I did. It generally takes so much less mental effort and energy to just do the job right rather than do it half-arsed.

 

I'm in the camp that any adult ought to be expected to be able to go to the store and pick up the right things, or at least follow the logic of the budget: "I couldn't find the chicken breasts you wanted but there was a great sale on chicken thighs...." It's not OP's job to soothe his "male ego" (what do we think that even means anymore, anyway, as a society? It's antiquated, and talk about condescending to women and men both. ); it's his job to get over it and be more aware the next time she asks him to go to the store / do any other household task.

[Zapbasket]

I made the expensive organic chicken the other night & my husband made a joke out of it, which I appreciated. He said since we're gonna have the fancy chicken we need the good china. He actually got out our wedding china, washed it, set the table, lit some candles & babbled on & on about how much better this chicken was then plain old chicken. For a minute I thought he was serious. I asked if he could taste the difference because I couldn't & I have a more delicate palate then he does. He looked at me like I was daft & carried on about the alleged superiority of this chicken. It was all great fun. But that is what I love about my husband -- his uncanny ability to make me laugh.

 

That's pretty funny. It was his way of acknowledging his fault and also ribbing the both of you for your respective roles in the situation. That would make me laugh, too.

 

Did you address his outburst with him, or just decide to let it all go for now?

[d0nnivain]

Did you address his outburst with him, or just decide to let it all go for now?

 

I let it go because I knew in that mood there was no talking to him. I had to let him simmer down. About 2 hours later he apologized. I accepted the apology & we moved on. Hence the dinner jokes.

 

Some chicken & a few harsh words uttered in my presence but not directed at me was not the hill I wanted to die on. Remember, some of this is that I overreact to any display of anger so I have to acknowledge that my perspective on the severity of the outburst may have been skewed.

[Els]

No kids & well past the time that they are an option.

 

I made the expensive organic chicken the other night & my husband made a joke out of it, which I appreciated. He said since we're gonna have the fancy chicken we need the good china. He actually got out our wedding china, washed it, set the table, lit some candles & babbled on & on about how much better this chicken was then plain old chicken. For a minute I thought he was serious. I asked if he could taste the difference because I couldn't & I have a more delicate palate then he does. He looked at me like I was daft & carried on about the alleged superiority of this chicken. It was all great fun. But that is what I love about my husband -- his uncanny ability to make me laugh.

 

 

Sounds like good fun all around. Very glad you didn't take the option of dying on this hill!