What does she really want?

[cooldude123]

I completely second Beachead's post here on the relationship and breakup dynamics. I am just hard headed as you are with love and affection winning everything else in the world. But trust me that is in a perfect World! We do not live in one. We live in a world which is very unfair and all this love, honesty and stuff takes a backstage. I cared for my ex very much. We had lots of fights, arguments which drove our relationship downhill ending up in divorce. Yes I let her go with love. However, the anger and resentment that she has will last for many many years to come and she will be split minded until she finds another person in her life.

I used to argue with all the folks (Not here) in a different forum citing similar reasons like what you mentioned and that my ex would be back. NO NO NO and for the nth time NO. listen to all the suggestions of experienced people like beachead and bluespower. They have posted very wise words here. A man has to maintain his dignity. If he acts insecure and chicken, even approaching a woman who does not want you, it shows his weakness. NO WOMAN LIKES THIS. They may expect you to be a bit emotional but not to this extent. They want you to man it up. You ex is undecided, confused, insecure. You have given everything in this world to make this relationship work. Now you simply tell her that you have your own life, once she has made up her mind and decided she can come back. And if you are still available she and you can be together.

A relationship is made by 2 working together. Not 1 person who is always trying and the other hardly giving a damn! Be a humble guy, maintain your dignity as a man and work on yourself.

Oh btw you can see some dumper's remorse here. check my posts in a different thread "Dumper's remorse". Here the dumper clearly mentions she would not missed her ex so much if it were not for him to go NC and dark. She is having a remorse now. I feel, that is pretty much what you need to do in your relationship as well. By doing that your woman will wonder what you are upto. If she feels you have moved on like others mentioned here, she will move heaven and earth to correct her mistakes and be with you. If not you are simply ignored.

 

You will get a closure and your answer either ways with what may happen above. But definitely being with her and not making her miss you, you are just not helping your relationship. Yes i want to be proven wrong here. Please come back and post that I was wrong. I would be very very happy to have a constructive criticism on my post!!!

[ThreeRainbows]

hose who were ready to be in something longterm and would have made amazing partners end up ruining themselves being with people like this. Their loyalty and giving nature ends up costing them. They recover, they get back on the horse only to get hurt by someone else for something similar. It keeps on happening to them until they eventually grow cold and become selfish themselves. It all adds up to a very toxic dating culture.

 

 

I don't think it usually results in them growing cold and selfish themselves, unless maybe it happens earlier (like in adolescence) - when personality is still forming. I think it makes people become wiser to other peoples' antics and games. It helps us learn to spot sociopaths and narcissists. And it helps us learn self-respect.

 

 

It's not all bad Predators help the rest of the animal world evolve.

[leepetrus]

 

Know yourself worth. You could be with anyone else but you risked your heart again to give her a second chance and here she is doing this. For that reason alone, I'm willing to bet there's another guy in the picture and she's trying to figure out what she wants so she's keeping you on the backburner.

 

 

OP, it is quite clear to me that that is the case. She's stringing you along. If she was sure on her mindset, she wouldn't say that "there are unfinished business that need to be dealt with" and then put you on her shelf. We all know what unfinished business followed by "if we are meant to be together, we will be" means.

 

Move on with your life. Cut ties, go NC, block her everywhere, grief, then heal and find yourself somebody else who you deserve, who loves you and wants you as much as do you want them.

[marky00]

I'm starting to see why so many relationships fail as everybody seems to only see the negative in everything and seem to think there's no way to fix anything.

 

Your right in a way. Most of the vets on here came to LS as a heart broken dumpee. And because the breakups stuck 99 percent of the time, that's where the negativity (realism) comes from.

 

Thing is, sometimes reconciliations happen but if they do, those people aren't going to post here. The Internet is littered with negative stories, the happy/positive stories rarely appear on the Net because those people are too busy enjoying themselves.

 

Fact is, most people posting here as dumpees don't have much chance at a reconciliation because usually posting here is when the relationship was dead long before. Despite that fact, I agree the negativity here can get pretty old. Seems most people like to play devil's advocate. Its pretty crazy when you see a heart broken dumpee after a 10 yr relationship being told 2 days after the BU to move on and go NC. And that advice will come from people who probably have been dumped in years. A little more empathy would be nice but instead you can pretty much expect the same script (NC etc) as the default response for pretty much every thread.

[Beachead]

Your right in a way. Most of the vets on here came to LS as a heart broken dumpee. And because the breakups stuck 99 percent of the time, that's where the negativity (realism) comes from.

 

Thing is, sometimes reconciliations happen but if they do, those people aren't going to post here. The Internet is littered with negative stories, the happy/positive stories rarely appear on the Net because those people are too busy enjoying themselves.

 

Fact is, most people posting here as dumpees don't have much chance at a reconciliation because usually posting here is when the relationship was dead long before. Despite that fact, I agree the negativity here can get pretty old. Seems most people like to play devil's advocate. Its pretty crazy when you see a heart broken dumpee after a 10 yr relationship being told 2 days after the BU to move on and go NC. And that advice will come from people who probably have been dumped in years. A little more empathy would be nice but instead you can pretty much expect the same script (NC etc) as the default response for pretty much every thread.

 

Very sobering perspective.

[marky00]

I don't think it usually results in them growing cold and selfish themselves.

 

It does in a way.

 

I'm of the belief that dumpees tend to add a tougher and slightly cold edge to their arsenal for later life. Just based on self-preservation. They start to look after no1 (themselves) more.

 

Dumpers might add a slightly softer edge for future relationships, possibly realising that being rough with a partner never ends well.

 

It is of course possible that neither person changes but I think its rare the dumpee wouldn't make some changes. If the dumpee was a good person, I think its also rare that a dumper wouldn't make some changes to avoid hurting someone again.

[Beachead]

It does in a way.

 

I'm of the belief that dumpees tend to add a tougher and slightly cold edge to their arsenal for later life. Just based on self-preservation. They start to look after no1 (themselves) more.

 

Dumpers might add a slightly softer edge for future relationships, possibly realising that being rough with a partner never ends well.

 

It is of course possible that neither person changes but I think its rare the dumpee wouldn't make some changes. If the dumpee was a good person, I think its also rare that a dumper wouldn't make some changes to avoid hurting someone again.

 

Yep. I only said this because of personal experience. I've seen a lot of people change in real life. I've changed myself. Ideally, it's assumed that we become better and stronger after a setback but those assumptions don't take into account that we are imperfect. So sometimes, we may not deal with pain in the healthiest of ways. Maybe we don't have the right guidance or support. Maybe our break up/divorce was extremely traumatic or multiple rejections and relationship failures pushed us to the point where scars are left. Suddenly, we find ourselves afraid to get close to another person and we may unknowingly withdraw into a shell and developed defense mechanisms. If enough time passes by, what started out as a reaction to something painful eventually embeds itself into our wiring, becomes a part of who we are and is reflected through our actions and decisions without us even knowing.

 

One of my exes was an example of this. Her own ex left her and disappeared from her life and it broke her heart. The combination of trauma and who she was as a person made her bury the pain and run away from it instead of dealing with it. When she met me and we began to date 2 years after that breakup of hers, she brought it all into the relationship. I thought it was me at first..but I soon realized it wasn't. Was one of the biggest reasons we ended.

 

I'm not saying it happens all the time..but it's fairly common.

 

- Beach

[marky00]

It's pretty simple to me.

 

Someone dumps you like your a piece dirt. That's a wake up call of how a very dark side of life exists.

 

Once you see that, you change forever. You might still have some ideals but that youthful innocence with an idealistic approach has to be adjusted after such a wake up call.

 

I miss the younger version of me, the one who had lots of ideals and dreams. Bit like missing being a kid really. Most of the posters on LS almost sound robotic due to their negative life experiences. Anyone comes on here and talks about ideals or fantasies, they will be shot down in seconds

 

I think as the years go by after a very bad breakup (being dumped), you do tend to pull yourself back into line somewhat in an effort to not inflict pain on others. But the fact is, when push comes to shove, you are more likely to put yourself first in most situations and thus are more likely to hurt others, regardless.

 

Once you have seen the very dark side of life, you cannot reverse that discovery. That definitely causes change.

Edited July 29, 2018 by marky00

[MountainGirl111]

I respect all your guys' perspective on this and know it comes from experience. But still, none of you are experts on what makes each woman tick nor the woman in this case. I'm a bit jaded too, but not totally jaded. I think in some cases the fire still lingers long after people split. I know it's not ideal to chase after things that may be a waste of time. But the reality is, some people do know in their heart what they want and what they feel....they just don't know how to go about it. It's true some women are drawn to strong men and a bit turned off by weak men. But there are many women who have been burned by "strong men" and just want a man who would be more kind and flexible. All this "alpha male" stuff. What is that, really? A true alpha male isn't even aware he's an alpha male and certainly doesn't need to attempt to do so...he is just himself. The OP still loves this woman; that's clear. If he wants to give her a second chance and she wants to give it a second chance....I would just say go in with your eyes open and don't get your hopes up too much. Maybe she's afraid of breaking up with the current boyfriend. Maybe he has abusive or violent sides to his character.

[MountainGirl111]

It's pretty simple to me.

 

 

Once you have seen the very dark side of life, you cannot reverse that discovery. That definitely causes change.

 

True, YES! I've seen many dark things in life many times over. No, can't go back and have redo's on those discoveries. Sure it changes you. Yet....YET....for myself: the challenge is to become wise, but not hard in my heart to such an extent I have no softness for anything or anyone. Unyielding. There are times when we perhaps need to yield a little; step back....

[Beachead]

True, YES! I've seen many dark things in life many times over. No, can't go back and have redo's on those discoveries. Sure it changes you. Yet....YET....for myself: the challenge is to become wise, but not hard in my heart to such an extent I have no softness for anything or anyone. Unyielding. There are times when we perhaps need to yield a little; step back....

 

Yea that will always be the battle for those that have been damaged.

 

It will always be the question of is it worth softening up to welcome new people into our lives, risk possible heartbreak again for a possible chance of success OR hardening up, not risking anything, focus on ourselves, simplifying our life and not allowing anybody to enter. Just depends on where we're at emotionally.

[Ralph79]

I respect all your guys' perspective on this and know it comes from experience. But still, none of you are experts on what makes each woman tick nor the woman in this case. I'm a bit jaded too, but not totally jaded. I think in some cases the fire still lingers long after people split. I know it's not ideal to chase after things that may be a waste of time. But the reality is, some people do know in their heart what they want and what they feel....they just don't know how to go about it. It's true some women are drawn to strong men and a bit turned off by weak men. But there are many women who have been burned by "strong men" and just want a man who would be more kind and flexible. All this "alpha male" stuff. What is that, really? A true alpha male isn't even aware he's an alpha male and certainly doesn't need to attempt to do so...he is just himself. The OP still loves this woman; that's clear. If he wants to give her a second chance and she wants to give it a second chance....I would just say go in with your eyes open and don't get your hopes up too much. Maybe she's afraid of breaking up with the current boyfriend. Maybe he has abusive or violent sides to his character.

 

I agree that no one here should consider themselves experts in relationships. However I rarely see posters claiming as much. If ever. Some do have a more aggressive approach in the advise they give and some get easily offended. Let's not forget that we came for advise on a public forum and we should be grateful for the time others spend reading and typing advise on our behalf. Weather we agree or not with that advise shouldn't take away from the fact that people came with good intentions to try and help the poster in their own way.

 

Also, I did a little research on behalf of the OP. Back in June of last year , the poster shared these details about his relationship (I took the liberty of bolding what I thought was of importance):

 

1.- "I was dating this girl for about 6-7 months and all was going well."

2.- "After about 6 months, she started acting very distant and sometimes flat out ignoring me."

3.- "I find out she received her court date for her custody hearing so I'm thinking that's probably what's bugging her."

4.- "Being ignored would frustrate me so when she eventually replied(possibly a day or two later after I sent 3-4 texts), I would already be mad and our conversation would just end up in a fight."

5.- "After about a month of this, I got fed up and broke up with her."

6.- "I immediately regretted my decision because I did it out of anger"

7.- "At this age and in my location, there's not much of a selection so finding somebody without a kid is rare enough let alone one with no drama. I can live with some drama, just not the amount she's bringing in the picture now."

 

The next month, He shared with us that She still visited His parents because Her kid had grown attached to them, to which he stated:

 

1.- "At this point, I'd take her back in a heartbeat if that was an option but she's made it clear that it's not an option"

2.- "I don't feel comfortable allowing her and her son to keep in contact with my family because I think it will make it harder for me to move on."

3.- " The kid really needs a father figure as his dad is a deadbeat and I think she still sees me as this for him but she can't have it both ways. If she wants me to be his father figure, it's gotta be as a family. It's a package deal. "

 

The following month He shared:

 

1.- "She's had a lot of stress in her life in the past bit which I think was the main factor in our breakup."

2.- "Every time I bring up the subject, she keeps shooting it down saying there's no chance of reconciliation."

3.- "She also has a 5 year old son and I don't want to involve him unless I know things are fully patched up either. That's also another thing that she's done to make me question what she wants. When I asked her what she told him about me not being around, she says she just told him that I was too busy. Why would you say that if you don't plan on having the person around at all anymore?"

 

Weeks later he asks:

 

1.- "So my question is, would it be acceptable to break NC that day to wish her son a happy birthday?"

 

Months Later, in March 2018 He states:

 

1.- " I sent her a heartfelt apology a week ago.

From her reply which came 2 days later, she's clearly still extremely pissed off at me. It almost seems like she's madder now than she was after the breakup."

2.- "FYI, I didn't apologize to get back together. I did it for for myself to feel better about the situation."

 

So , to recap OP:

 

When she was dealing with one of her most important and trying times in her life while fighting for her son's custody, you got mad because she wasn't paying enough attention to you and broke up with her. Which you immediately regretted because you realized your mistake.

 

You tried to deny her son the opportunity to visit your parents (which I might add you had every right to do), and you weren't willing to be there for either of them unless she got back with you. Initiated NC , probably missed them , which is why you asked if it was OK to break NC when it was the Kid's birthday, and simply stopped talking to her at all later on. After several months, in which she met someone else & invites him to move in, you sent an apology which at first she didn't take well to. Then kept in touch until she decided she wanted to go back to you.

 

So now she breaks up her current relationship to come back to you , but tells you she needs time. And you are wondering why is it taking long ?

 

Do you realize that as a Mother , she needs to explain a LOT of things and protect her son ? . What is the kid going to say after having someone sleep with mommy for months, all of a sudden disappear and have you reappear in their lives. Remember, you dumped her. So she needs to be sure that you will not go into another fit of rage and dump her again over impatience or lack of attention.

 

Lastly, I don't have the exact dates on hand but from the looks of things, and I want to state this clearly I am making an assumption here: You are the OM in this case and you interfered with an ongoing relationship. You've stated that she dumped him to be with you.

 

So there is another guy out there, asking his friends why his GF is dumping him , asking for advise on how to fix a relationship.

 

Please don't be so self centered. Don't make the same mistakes you did the first time.

 

We only know your side of the story, we don't know hers, or that guy living with her. But I am trying to make you see things that are obvious faults to me when I'm reading them.

 

I'm not saying get back with her. I'm not saying forget her. I simply see a pattern of actions and reactions on all sides and unless she is 100% certain of what she wants, my friend you WILL have bumps on the road that the posters on these forums have seen all too often enough to be able to accurately predict most of the time.

 

I not only wish you succeed in whatever it is you want, more importantly I hope you have the peace of mind to realize if this is truly what you want.

 

Cheers Bud

[Beachead]

I agree that no one here should consider themselves experts in relationships. However I rarely see posters claiming as much. If ever. Some do have a more aggressive approach in the advise they give and some get easily offended. Let's not forget that we came for advise on a public forum and we should be grateful for the time others spend reading and typing advise on our behalf. Weather we agree or not with that advise shouldn't take away from the fact that people came with good intentions to try and help the poster in their own way.

 

Also, I did a little research on behalf of the OP. Back in June of last year , the poster shared these details about his relationship (I took the liberty of bolding what I thought was of importance):

 

1.- "I was dating this girl for about 6-7 months and all was going well."

2.- "After about 6 months, she started acting very distant and sometimes flat out ignoring me."

3.- "I find out she received her court date for her custody hearing so I'm thinking that's probably what's bugging her."

4.- "Being ignored would frustrate me so when she eventually replied(possibly a day or two later after I sent 3-4 texts), I would already be mad and our conversation would just end up in a fight."

5.- "After about a month of this, I got fed up and broke up with her."

6.- "I immediately regretted my decision because I did it out of anger"

7.- "At this age and in my location, there's not much of a selection so finding somebody without a kid is rare enough let alone one with no drama. I can live with some drama, just not the amount she's bringing in the picture now."

 

The next month, He shared with us that She still visited His parents because Her kid had grown attached to them, to which he stated:

 

1.- "At this point, I'd take her back in a heartbeat if that was an option but she's made it clear that it's not an option"

2.- "I don't feel comfortable allowing her and her son to keep in contact with my family because I think it will make it harder for me to move on."

3.- " The kid really needs a father figure as his dad is a deadbeat and I think she still sees me as this for him but she can't have it both ways. If she wants me to be his father figure, it's gotta be as a family. It's a package deal. "

 

The following month He shared:

 

1.- "She's had a lot of stress in her life in the past bit which I think was the main factor in our breakup."

2.- "Every time I bring up the subject, she keeps shooting it down saying there's no chance of reconciliation."

3.- "She also has a 5 year old son and I don't want to involve him unless I know things are fully patched up either. That's also another thing that she's done to make me question what she wants. When I asked her what she told him about me not being around, she says she just told him that I was too busy. Why would you say that if you don't plan on having the person around at all anymore?"

 

Weeks later he asks:

 

1.- "So my question is, would it be acceptable to break NC that day to wish her son a happy birthday?"

 

Months Later, in March 2018 He states:

 

1.- " I sent her a heartfelt apology a week ago.

From her reply which came 2 days later, she's clearly still extremely pissed off at me. It almost seems like she's madder now than she was after the breakup."

2.- "FYI, I didn't apologize to get back together. I did it for for myself to feel better about the situation."

 

So , to recap OP:

 

When she was dealing with one of her most important and trying times in her life while fighting for her son's custody, you got mad because she wasn't paying enough attention to you and broke up with her. Which you immediately regretted because you realized your mistake.

 

You tried to deny her son the opportunity to visit your parents (which I might add you had every right to do), and you weren't willing to be there for either of them unless she got back with you. Initiated NC , probably missed them , which is why you asked if it was OK to break NC when it was the Kid's birthday, and simply stopped talking to her at all later on. After several months, in which she met someone else & invites him to move in, you sent an apology which at first she didn't take well to. Then kept in touch until she decided she wanted to go back to you.

 

So now she breaks up her current relationship to come back to you , but tells you she needs time. And you are wondering why is it taking long ?

 

Do you realize that as a Mother , she needs to explain a LOT of things and protect her son ? . What is the kid going to say after having someone sleep with mommy for months, all of a sudden disappear and have you reappear in their lives. Remember, you dumped her. So she needs to be sure that you will not go into another fit of rage and dump her again over impatience or lack of attention.

 

Lastly, I don't have the exact dates on hand but from the looks of things, and I want to state this clearly I am making an assumption here: You are the OM in this case and you interfered with an ongoing relationship. You've stated that she dumped him to be with you.

 

So there is another guy out there, asking his friends why his GF is dumping him , asking for advise on how to fix a relationship.

 

Please don't be so self centered. Don't make the same mistakes you did the first time.

 

We only know your side of the story, we don't know hers, or that guy living with her. But I am trying to make you see things that are obvious faults to me when I'm reading them.

 

I'm not saying get back with her. I'm not saying forget her. I simply see a pattern of actions and reactions on all sides and unless she is 100% certain of what she wants, my friend you WILL have bumps on the road that the posters on these forums have seen all too often enough to be able to accurately predict most of the time.

 

I not only wish you succeed in whatever it is you want, more importantly I hope you have the peace of mind to realize if this is truly what you want.

 

Cheers Bud

 

Great Post Ralph79. Very balanced and level headed analysis.

 

- Beach

[MountainGirl111]

Yea that will always be the battle for those that have been damaged.

 

It will always be the question of is it worth softening up to welcome new people into our lives, risk possible heartbreak again for a possible chance of success OR hardening up, not risking anything, focus on ourselves, simplifying our life and not allowing anybody to enter. Just depends on where we're at emotionally.

 

I get it. Right now I'm feeling kind of hard. But I don't want to become a bitter person. I just broke up with my boyfriend. It does change your readiness for risks. I'm also trying not to lump all men together. He sort of dumped me first; I found out he was sleeping with someone else, but I officially broke it off. He said he wasn't getting enough sex from our relationship, so he took on a side piece, maybe more than one side piece. I don't know. To tell you the truth...I felt like he was mainly interested in sex and didn't value other aspects. He didn't respect my opinions, or much else. As long as he got sex when he wanted he was pleasant to be around. If he didn't get it when he wanted it he was a bear.

[Beachead]

I get it. Right now I'm feeling kind of hard. But I don't want to become a bitter person. I just broke up with my boyfriend. It does change your readiness for risks. I'm also trying not to lump all men together. He sort of dumped me first; I found out he was sleeping with someone else, but I officially broke it off. He said he wasn't getting enough sex from our relationship, so he took on a side piece, maybe more than one side piece. I don't know. To tell you the truth...I felt like he was mainly interested in sex and didn't value other aspects. He didn't respect my opinions, or much else. As long as he got sex when he wanted he was pleasant to be around. If he didn't get it when he wanted it he was a bear.

 

 

I'm sorry to hear that. So he justified his cheat and blamed you for it.

 

He could have communicated his issues to you rather than cheating. A person who's all in with you would have done this because they see a future with you that they don't want to risk losing. Instead, he looked for a way out because he had one foot out the door. He's a weak person who showed his quality. Hope you don't contact him again.

 

- Beach

[MountainGirl111]

I'm sorry to hear that. So he justified his cheat and blamed you for it.

 

He could have communicated his issues to you rather than cheating. A person who's all in with you would have done this because they see a future with you that they don't want to risk losing. Instead, he looked for a way out because he had one foot out the door. He's a weak person who showed his quality. Hope you don't contact him again.

 

- Beach

 

Yeah. He indicated that if I would have sex whenever he wanted it he would never be tempted to have sex with someone else...even if I was not in the mood...he didn't like to take no for an answer and would guilt me into having sex when I didn't want to. Bad sign, I know. He did attempt to communicate but it was very awkward and he would pick the worst times to bring things up like when I'm on my way to work he would lay stuff on me and I'm thinking about my upcoming work day. He'd say, "I'm sexually frustrated." I'm like, and what do you want me do about that right now? As I'm driving in the car on my way to work! He told me once he wanted me for himself and didn't want to share me with anyone. And what does he go and do? He gets with someone else while I am busy working my tail off. I won't be contacting him.