I chose the other path. I got revenge.

[flubberghaster]

He called. Had a phone call with him. Went for over 3 hours.

 

Closure galore. He basically said "I'm a narcissist. I used you. I was considering leaving some time around November but you frightened me. The whole thing was a ploy. I knew you loved me, but we were toxic for each other. I just couldn't get enough of how you made me feel. I lost my wife, and my kids because of you. I cannot stand you. **** off. I'll let YOU hang up the phone so you feel like you got the upper hand." I have never heard someone so angry and broken and "done" with another human being.

 

Summary was:

 

- I was his heaping pile of validation.

- he lost his wife and children to this.

- the depth of his hate and understanding of this is incredible.

- he said he didn't love me, but couldn't answer why he came to Hawaii or why he gave me the last trip.

- "I stopped loving you after the mudslide and fires - it had nothing to do with you, but how I wanted my life to go. I was too afraid of you and what you'd do if I left."

- he said he didn't care about the outcome of this pregnancy. This was the last time we'd speak.

- he said he can't hear Australian's speak without being filled with immense rage.

- he said despire him being single, this is it. There is 0 chance of a relationship to continue.

- its obvious he's been looking into me. He basically said "you got everything you wanted and out of this with no consequences. I lost everything."

- "It was all empty calories."

- I asked if he loved me at all on this last trip, or Hawaii. He said no. He just didn't want to lose his pleasure centre, like a rat who presses a lever and gets some food.

- I asked why he didn't block me on WhatsApp, he said he didn't know why.

- the venom he spat was staggering.

- he said "I am an awful man. A very awful man. A pathological liar. The man you knew was not real. The man who loved was not real. The man who loved you, was not real.

- he said despite what he did, my actions were not justifiable.

- he said I must be incredibly broken to still want a thing to do with him, and that "I should really fix that."

- he wanted to know nothing about me or what happened since.

- its very, very very done.

 

Round'n'round. He's blocked and that's that. I feel better. Though amped full of adrenaline. I got off the phone maybe 5 minutes ago.

[FMW]

I'm glad you feel better. I hope you are able to truly move forward now and never look back.

[flubberghaster]

Tried to edit the above but wouldn't allow me to:

 

I gave him 'truths' I avoided at the time, too. Things I'm not proud of and that I absolutely need to, in future, fix.

 

- He pointed out I had inconsistencies in my responses when we got onto the topic of 'having to choose'.He said one moment I would say 'its okay we'll be fine' and the next 'don't leave me or I'll tell your wife.' I agreed and said the reason I did this was because I truly believed he would pick me.

 

- admitted that I began this 'rampage' minutes after he drove away, and didn't think about it for days afterwards. Was numb to it all. He asked why, and I said in the primitive blinding anger I was feeling, it was because "I thought if I took away everything, you'd have to come to me." That was what it boiled down to. Some sort of vendetta.

 

- I told him I didn't feel a thing until I landed back in Australia 3 days later. He broke down and cried with rage; "it took you THREE DAYS?" I said yes. And I didn't feel bad about it for a couple of weeks.

 

- he pointed out I didn't sound remorseful. I told him I wasn't really remorseful. I'm sorry you lost your life as you knew it, but I don't feel sorry for you. He pointed out the scope of the damage - he lost his reputation, his job opportunities and was lucky to keep the one he has. He lives alone. Wifey has left him for another state. He tried to relay the amount of damage I did and I simply said "none of it was a lie. You wanted to play a game, I participated."

 

- I asked why he counted how many times I begged him. He said he didn't know.

 

- He said he believed I would leave quietly when he broke up with me, "because I said I would." I told him "I also said in that same breath I would tell your wife." He cried.

 

He did have a lot 'on me' too. He never did threaten me. He had a lot of dirt on me too but did not use it. He was trying to 'walk away' and build back his life with me being the collateral damage. What I did was not right but I don't regret it anymore. This entire relationship was a long con. Should have known better than a man whose major in college was 'theatre!'

 

Bit of verbal diarrhoea here. I'm sorry for how scattered it is. Trying to get it all screwed down deep but honestly, most of it doesn't matter. I was conned. He got railroaded. We are not friends. I have serious problems (why would I still want someone who does this to me?) and so does he. He sounds like he is very committed to not being that person anymore. He asked to hear about the blood test results and if I choose to keep the baby or not for his own closure, since he gave me so much of his time. I'm undecided but it seems to be the right thing to do later on.

 

This does feel like a weight off my shoulders. He had no reason to lie throughout this, and none of it was easy to hear.

 

stillafool - still at that point, I think. This conversation was a blend of emotion and indifference. I didn't even know that was possible! He is doing A GOOD THING by blocking all my advances and recognising my own sneaky tactics to get back into his life. He shut them down quickly. This sucks, but is the right thing to do.

 

Starswillshine - I can't even imagine finding the OW here! I'm so sorry that happened. We suck for the things we do. I hope you're recovering okay - if you're here, I imagine you're finding good support. After a point none of it seems to matter anymore.

 

brokenandhopeless - until this update, lol! This all sucks. And it all hurts. And they are addictive and beautiful. But they aren't real. And that's one of my first "true" life lessons. I didn't realise how easy it was to feel so swindled.

 

bathtub-row - I caved, you were right, just a day early. lol.

Edited July 19, 2018 by flubberghaster

[CantTakeMySmile]

It must feel like a bit of relief to have total closure like that.

 

Now you can start with Day 1!! Good luck! You are free now!

[MidnightBlue1980]

Since he admitted he was a pathological liar, you should take a lot of what he says with a grain of salt.

 

You started this thread early July and his wife was a united front, they were working it out. It's still July and now he is single living in his own apartment? Didn't she recently have their 2nd baby? I highly doubt he is living alone.

 

The guy sounds just as obsessed and slightly deranged as many of us on this site, so I do believe he is in the middle of a push pull thing with you. So I totally expect him to contact you again. Whether to tell him or not about the pregnancy, that is hard to say.

 

I've been where you are and it's tough to get out. The good thing is that he is in another country so you won't see him by accident. But 3 years of history. You need to figure out the pregnancy first and then how to get away from this guy.

[flubberghaster]

He had some pretty serious conviction in his voice. He wanted out of the conversation half an hour before it ended, I kept him on the phone. I truly do not believe he will reapproach me. This man feels nothing but hate for me, and that's okay. I ruined his life. As he put it, I hit "send." Then again, you're absolutely right - I can't know for sure. I still have lingering feelings but he made it clear he was not interested.

 

They presented as once. At least I should say, SHE did in the sole message she sent me. He simply refused to speak about his personal life after the fact. Today was the most information I had gotten from him.

 

It doesn't really matter. He is blocked everywhere. He can't get through to me and I imagine he won't try. Do I wish he would? Hell yeah! Do I wish we could rebuild? Oh my god YES. Would I take him back in a heartbeat? Absolutely.

 

Do I know its over? Yes.

[flubberghaster]

It must feel like a bit of relief to have total closure like that.

 

Now you can start with Day 1!! Good luck! You are free now!

 

People here aren't wrong when they say "closure" doesn't come from the other person. None of what he said changed a thing. The only thing that changed was hearing him so cold. He sounded final and I was able to accept it. I was still holding onto shreds of "he talked to me and didn't sound MURDEROUSLY ANGRY! That means he STILL LOVES ME!"

 

No. It means I didn't touch on something raw in the last 5 minutes.

 

I feel like I got the perfect closure everyone asks for, but I promise it makes no difference. It all sucks.

[CantTakeMySmile]

It does suck. There is no denying that I am sorry you are in pain. Yes, people can be so incredibly selfish. maybe you should change your phone number.

[BaileyB]

This man feels nothing but hate for me, and that's okay. I ruined his life.

 

I still have lingering feelings but he made it clear he was not interested.

 

He is blocked everywhere. He can't get through to me and I imagine he won't try. Do I wish he would? Hell yeah! Do I wish we could rebuild? Oh my god YES. Would I take him back in a heartbeat? Absolutely.

 

I'm glad that you accept it is done. But seriously...

 

You did not ruin his life. He is a big boy, he makes his own decisions, and he will accept the consequences of his decisions. Same for you.

 

And, you need to find a good counsellor, my friend. If you are still wishing that you could rebuild and saying that you would take him back in a heartbeat... Well, that's just stupid talk. I'm sorry, but it really is... This man is a nightmare and you need to use better judgment and develop your skills of self protection.

[flubberghaster]

I'm glad that you accept it is done. But seriously...

 

You did not ruin his life. He is a big boy, he makes his own decisions, and he will accept the consequences of his decisions. Same for you.

 

And, you need to find a good counsellor, my friend. If you are still wishing that you could rebuild and saying that you would take him back in a heartbeat... Well, that's just stupid talk. I'm sorry, but it really is... This man is a nightmare and you need to use better judgment and develop your skills of self protection.

 

You're absolutely correct.

 

Its funny, he said that too. "There is something absolutely not there in you. You were willing to be used, abused, and tortured. You encouraged it. Its the dynamic you liked. The more I hurt you, the more you wanted me." And he wasn't wrong. Our sex was very very depraved (think guns, knives, choking, threats, violence, hitting). The entire dynamic was exactly what I wanted -- but that's not to say it was healthy or good or what I needed. He did bring up a lot of good points. He told me to "**** off" and I'd get excited. There's so much wrong with me. Our ****edupedness complimented each other perfectly. He was correct when he said it was toxic, I just don't believe it much yet.

 

From the outside looking in, it must have been a mess. From the inside, it was everything I'd wanted.

 

What a mess eh?

[BaileyB]

There is nothing inherently wrong with you.

 

But, you do need to understand why it was acceptable to be used and abused in this way. Because, if you don't understand the "why" and you don't consider it in relation to what is "healthy," you will be doomed to repeat this experience.

 

There are kinks and rough sex, and that is well within what many would consider to be "normal." But then, there is allowing a man to hurt, threaten, and abuse you - and going back for more. He is abusive to you for treating you this way. You are abusive to yourself for allowing it.

 

Self protection. You really need to develop some ability for self protection. It starts by blocking his call...

[Blu72]

You’d take him back after all that? Wow, you really need help. Because I promise you he will come back around because he knows you will take him back. This is why I said NO contact. Have some self respect. No one deserves an ******* like that.

[flubberghaster]

I tend to err on the side of believing you guys since... well, you're rarely wrong! But I truly feel like he will not come back. He may check in on me silently over the years but I truly do not believe he will re approach. I would be staggered if he did.

[BaileyB]

I tend to err on the side of believing you guys since... well, you're rarely wrong! But I truly feel like he will not come back. He may check in on me silently over the years but I truly do not believe he will re approach. I would be staggered if he did.

 

Be prepared to be staggered then... He will be back. He will move on to his next willing victim but someday, he will think of you and he will need some validation... Or, he will just want more sex. I would bet money that he will try again. Just like, I bet money that he would not let you end it without talking... The narcissist in him could not let you go without one parting shot!

[bathtub-row]

It appears that you're a combination of edgy and intense, putting you in that zone where most people fear to tread.

 

Wow. Overall, a good conversation. It seems both off you got a lot of your chests. Anyway, he sure has put a lot of blame on you for screwing up his life. Interesting how he had nothing to do with that. I'm with you - hard to feel sorry for him. I still kind of giggle when I think about what you did.

 

Now, an explanation about some of your seemingly-crazy emotional response to all this, meaning you'd still be willing to take him back. First of all, if the two of you did make an attempt to mend things, it would fall apart in very short order. Secondly, I truly, truly recommend a book entitled "Getting To I Do". The book isn't exactly what it sounds like. Nothing ever explained the female reaction better than this book and it explains why we, as women, need to be very selective about the men we allow into our lives. Read it. I promise you'll understand why you think these crazy thoughts. And next time, tread carefully where men are concerned.

 

I hope that, overall, you're relieved to have had that conversation with Mr. Pathological Liar. I know it all still hurts but I'm guessing you relished just hearing his voice again -- and therein lies the danger...

 

Btw, I chuckled at your comment about caving. LOL!

[CantTakeMySmile]

How can he check on you? In whatever ways he can, please block.

 

I know the feeling of they will never get back in touch. But, in my experience, they ALWAYS have. Not once has that faltered.

[bathtub-row]

Be prepared to be staggered then... He will be back. He will move on to his next willing victim but someday, he will think of you and he will need some validation... Or, he will just want more sex. I would bet money that he will try again. Just like, I bet money that he would not let you end it without talking... The narcissist in him could not let you go without one parting shot!

 

I second this!

[BaileyB]

Did you hear the underlying message in his conversation though... He doesn't respect you because you accepted his bad behavior. Here you sit, still wishing that he would come back and "pick you" but he told you - he doesn't understand why you let him hurt you and because he has lost respect for you, he doesn't want a relationship with you (despite the fact that he is now "single.")

 

A man doesn't need respect to a woman to have sex wih her or have an affair. But, he wants to respect a woman he dates and with whom he has a relationship.

 

So here is the thing, if you don't have the self respect to set boundaries for yourself and for the relationship, he has no respect for you. And, no reason to stay...

Edited July 20, 2018 by BaileyB

[jah526]

Maybe this is some form of self-harm? Not judging, I believe that was true in my case. The thing about self-harm, and I was a cutter, is that it temporarily frees you from all the negative, hard-to-handle emotions. It focuses your mind like a laser on the external, the physical pain, and in a weird way it feels like a release from the constant emotional torment.

 

I’m pretty sure for me it all stemmed from FOO issues. But at the base of it all there was always a deep hope that one day the abuser would realize the error of his ways and say they were sorry. And so we return, hope against hope...

 

I hope that this really was the closure that you needed and that you’re not just on an adrenaline high right now from the contact. Watch out for the crash in a few days...

[flubberghaster]

BaileyB - I'm fascinated to know. I made it clear - and he repeated I had made it clear - that I was interested in re-establishing a relationship. He shut down any possibility of it very very firmly. I will keep you in the loop if he finds a way! I promise if he does, I will update. But I get a pretty intense feeling of "finality." Crazy stuff, guys. This man sounded like he was about to grab an Uzi and climb a clock tower, and I had a very clear image of him walking back into his office building and breaking down after this call.

 

He has been blocked on every avenue to contact me. Phone, WhatsApp, social media, emails... the lot. Of course it's never too hard to track someone down if you want to, but all his easy avenues are blocked. Best I can do for now, I guess.

 

I kind of thought he might come back for validation, but when I brought that up, he simply said "you WERE that source. You aren't anymore. I just want to focus on being a good dad to the kids you stripped from me."

 

Fair enough. He got his parting shot. He won this; he knew I still wanted him. I told him I still loved him before I hung up the phone. He's not wrong about mixed messages either; "I love you -- so I've blocked you." I guess in my head its "I love you, but I hear what you're saying. You do not wish to remain in touch. Fair enough."

 

I don't forsee how he could respect me from here on in. I made a fool of myself and flit between joking, getting upset and indifference. Defensiveness and aggressive to feeling bad. That's on me.

 

Blu72 - without a doubt. I am not proud of it. I really dug that man, even through this - its better than the majority of relationships I've been through. He at least gave me a facade of a gentleman and of a good life. And conversation! The man was all conversation and flair, something I've been dying for for years. Which is something I'd like to find in future. Zero self respect.

 

bathtub-row - I love your comments, such a great sense of humor.

 

I think the conversation went as well as it could. I think he said what he needed to say, and I run out of things to say... so... nothing left to say!

 

He was adamant this was my fault. That he has to look around him and see the destruction I caused. "I may be a narcissist and lied to both of you, but you hit send". I let him have that -- because I did. And I shouldn't have gone so much. I CERTAINLY shouldn't have stripped his job prospects. I should not have involved innocent people - telling his wife should have been enough. But in my mind it was putting as many nails in the coffin that I could hammer in there. Hard to argue what I did was right or justified - but frankly, it killed this relationship good and dead. That's my consequence.

 

Speaking with him, I felt bad at first -- until he told me the extent of the lies. And how he knew what he was doing the whole time. And that even if I'd gone quietly, the relationship was done -- he didn't love my by then and was "scared" of me. So, I lost nothing and everyone in his life found out the truth. He even cried out "how could I want you, you HURT MY MOTHER?!?" I had to stifle a giggle. He knows he's broken. Didn't need me to remind him. I also made a greencard joke that made him almost choke on his tongue with anger.

 

Guess that means I'm getting over it?

[flubberghaster]

jah526 - bang on my friend. I hope you're past it too, its an awful spiral. You're right -- I looked at his call as it was happening and thought 'damn, this is like looking at a heroin needle emptying into my arm.'

 

Without a doubt, self harm.

[BaileyB]

BaileyB - I'm fascinated to know. I made it clear - and he repeated I had made it clear - that I was interested in re-establishing a relationship. He shut down any possibility of it very very firmly. I will keep you in the loop if he finds a way! I promise if he does, I will update. But I get a pretty intense feeling of "finality." Crazy stuff, guys. This man sounded like he was about to grab an Uzi and climb a clock tower, and I had a very clear image of him walking back into his office building and breaking down after this call.

 

He has been blocked on every avenue to contact me. Phone, WhatsApp, social media, emails... the lot. Of course it's never too hard to track someone down if you want to, but all his easy avenues are blocked. Best I can do for now, I guess.

 

I kind of thought he might come back for validation, but when I brought that up, he simply said "you WERE that source. You aren't anymore. I just want to focus on being a good dad to the kids you stripped from me."

 

Fair enough. He got his parting shot. He won this; he knew I still wanted him. I told him I still loved him before I hung up the phone. He's not wrong about mixed messages either; "I love you -- so I've blocked you." I guess in my head its "I love you, but I hear what you're saying. You do not wish to remain in touch. Fair enough."

 

I don't forsee how he could respect me from here on in. I made a fool of myself and flit between joking, getting upset and indifference. Defensiveness and aggressive to feeling bad. That's on me.

 

Blu72 - without a doubt. I am not proud of it. I really dug that man, even through this - its better than the majority of relationships I've been through. He at least gave me a facade of a gentleman and of a good life. And conversation! The man was all conversation and flair, something I've been dying for for years. Which is something I'd like to find in future. Zero self respect.

 

bathtub-row - I love your comments, such a great sense of humor.

 

I think the conversation went as well as it could. I think he said what he needed to say, and I run out of things to say... so... nothing left to say!

 

He was adamant this was my fault. That he has to look around him and see the destruction I caused. "I may be a narcissist and lied to both of you, but you hit send". I let him have that -- because I did. And I shouldn't have gone so much. I CERTAINLY shouldn't have stripped his job prospects. I should not have involved innocent people - telling his wife should have been enough. But in my mind it was putting as many nails in the coffin that I could hammer in there. Hard to argue what I did was right or justified - but frankly, it killed this relationship good and dead. That's my consequence.

 

Speaking with him, I felt bad at first -- until he told me the extent of the lies. And how he knew what he was doing the whole time. And that even if I'd gone quietly, the relationship was done -- he didn't love my by then and was "scared" of me. So, I lost nothing and everyone in his life found out the truth. He even cried out "how could I want you, you HURT MY MOTHER?!?" I had to stifle a giggle. He knows he's broken. Didn't need me to remind him. I also made a greencard joke that made him almost choke on his tongue with anger.

 

Guess that means I'm getting over it?

 

Have you been drinking tonight? This post is all over the place... it actually makes me quite concerned for you.

[flubberghaster]

Have you been drinking tonight? This post is all over the place... it actually makes e quite concerned for you.

 

I have not - I'm at work and piecing the replies together in notepad to post them. I'm sorry if they're garbled.

[flubberghaster]

Oh! Oh! Forgot a big chunk of the conversation! He said; "I would like to set the record straight. I did not have any other affairs. One girl propositioned me, but you were the only other woman in my entire marriage. I told you about the other girls so you'd be impressed with my 'game.'"

 

That stunk of lies. So who the heck knows?

[BaileyB]

I have not - I'm at work and piecing the replies together in notepad to post them. I'm sorry if they're garbled.

 

No worries. That makes more sense.