Move or not move with her ?

[HardChoice]

Well, I did the mistake to contact her.

 

She was really pissed off because of her brother - they have a "family" (well, actually she does not has a family but the broken left) Whatsapp group. Her brother seemed to go crazy and during the conversation she sent me messages and asked me whether she can delete him from the whatsapp group.

 

Me:"He seems to need help. He is not going well that are signs that he is currently struggeling"

She:"I did not ask you that. Can I delete him or NOT ?"

Me:"No, you can't."

She:"Fine.".

 

Bad mistake. She started to throw **** on me - that I never kept my promises, that I manipulated her, that I am manipulating all my friends and that I am twisting everything the way I want to see from my reality. With her new bf everything is different and she is never jealous, she feels secure and I am the bad guy. He keeps all his promises, accepts her as she is and never let anyone coming in between them. The they talk about problems and that he is not running to his friends talking about their problem and the he is not talking bad in front of his friends behind her back. That's her words.

 

 

 

Actually, I am still feeling like I am dying. Today I was in the gym - for the first time but still I don't want to see anybody. I just want to be the old, funny person I have been. My parents are worrying and try to help as best I could. My mother WISHs me to get back to the old one - powerfull, a bit too risky but always optimistic.

 

I am still searching for some kind of support - I don't want to bother other my friends anymore. I suppose I will seek out for a support group.

 

EDIT:

 

It's nice to see - When we have been a couple, she was phoning with her ex husband and shouting at him on the phone. Now with me, it's similar.

Edited September 10, 2018 by HardChoice

[Mr. Lucky]

It's nice to see - When we have been a couple, she was phoning with her ex husband and shouting at him on the phone. Now with me, it's similar.

 

Surprise, surprise. For obvious reasons, many see a need to demonize their exes. At least from the outside, looks like you've dodged a bullet. She seems high-maintenance and temperamental.

 

Time to force yourself to look ahead...

 

Mr. Lucky

[alphamale]

DO NOT move with her. You need to dump her and find someone with less drama...

[preraph]

Thanks a lot for your posts.

 

We broke up.

 

I feel miserable but this will go away. Yes, she was smart and she was pretty but her insecurities were too much. I have to admit, I am guy who gets along with a lot of different people and I have a quite strong personality. I have always been a happy, outgoing guy - anyway the lasts month were hard due to the internship and university in combination with running out of money but I did it.

 

It feels so unreal - she was my fifth girlfriend but I have never felt so devastated.

 

There are a lot of emotions going on: aggression, sadness & depression. I am feeling emotionally dead it feels like dying as a part of me has died. I supposed I sticked way too long in here atmosphere. I was at my parents place yesterday but this break up feels heavier than all 4 break ups multiplied by 100000 together.

 

Never ever again. I will teach that my kids. I want to become the guy I have been before - outgoing, easy going with girls and pure positive.

 

Requiem: Sometimes it is the happy tolerant empathetic people who end up being the only ones who will tolerate the ones with problems that others may let go right away. So sit down now you're in between relationships and write down some standards and boundaries you should adhere to to be sure you get someone on your own happiness and reliability level. Don't solve a problem case just because you are easy going enough to try. Don't live with someone high maintenance who comes from a family of discord and had no role modeling on how to get along with others. Don't be a fixer. Get someone you can be happy with.

[HardChoice]

Requiem: Sometimes it is the happy tolerant empathetic people who end up being the only ones who will tolerate the ones with problems that others may let go right away. So sit down now you're in between relationships and write down some standards and boundaries you should adhere to to be sure you get someone on your own happiness and reliability level. Don't solve a problem case just because you are easy going enough to try. Don't live with someone high maintenance who comes from a family of discord and had no role modeling on how to get along with others. Don't be a fixer. Get someone you can be happy with.

 

Thanks a lot for your posts guys.

 

@Mr. Lucky:

 

Well, that's exactly the point - why ? I don't get it. I am really making a reality check - I have a good job and people like me at work. I have good friends & a good family which is always by my side. After the relationship she was far better off than once I found her - She did not increase her debts, finished her degree, I was next to her 24/7 one year.

It's like: You do 100 things right, 2 things wrong. She points out exactly the 2 things you did wrong and forgets the 100 things you did right.

 

@preraph:

 

Well, I have to correct myself - I suppose I am a strong personality although I suppose a really strong person would not react in such a devasted way as I do.

 

Maybe I was too enthusiastic, too optimistic - I am always a quite optimistic guy and always thought "Ahhh, we wiil fix it, step by step" but I suppose - my power was also limited. If I compare her too a PC program, I would choose a benchmark tool - the tougher you are, the higher the benchmark settings will be set for the next run until you reach your limit.

 

 

Thank you all guys. Your words keep me happy.

[HardChoice]

Update there was a talk again:

 

She played the priority card. She said that I did not make her a priority and that her boyfriend actually does.

 

I replied that I made her a priority for over 1 year - we almost did everything together and have seldom been apart. I tried to explain her my point of view - nothing was valid. Everything was twisted against me i.e. that I was manipulating her, that I am manipulating everybody and that I am too convinced in myself.

 

Well...what to say ?

[basil67]

Update there was a talk again:

 

She played the priority card. She said that I did not make her a priority and that her boyfriend actually does.

 

I replied that I made her a priority for over 1 year - we almost did everything together and have seldom been apart. I tried to explain her my point of view - nothing was valid. Everything was twisted against me i.e. that I was manipulating her, that I am manipulating everybody and that I am too convinced in myself.

 

Well...what to say ?

 

She didn't play a card: She stated her perception. We each have different perceptions of any situation...and it's important to remember that perception is not fact. Her - You - Me - we all have different perceptions of the same events.

 

Say nothing and walk away. Don't contact her again.

[HardChoice]

She didn't play a card: She stated her perception. We each have different perceptions of any situation...and it's important to remember that perception is not fact. Her - You - Me - we all have different perceptions of the same events.

 

Say nothing and walk away. Don't contact her again.

 

You are totally right. In fact, this is what bothers me a lot. Yes, for two months she was not the priority - it was my thesis & my job but only for a short time period of two months. Nevertheless, the whole year we spent almost each day together. I told her that I tried to balance everything but nooo.

 

What I meant with priority card - She LOVES to twist everything. I go out with friends ? Priority. She has a tire on the highway and I have a deadline at work - I should jump and rescure her otherwise - no priority. I am busy with my life to make a good future for BOTH of us - she is not priority.

 

 

I suppose - due to the fact - the as a child her needs were never met, friends & family let her down, any sign of undevoted attention makes her crazy.

 

Life lesson learned: Never, ever again a girl with low self esteem - it's something you just can't win.

Edited September 28, 2018 by HardChoice

[HardChoice]

Little Update:

 

I am going better now. Those obsessive thoughts are getting less & less.

 

I realized - there would never have been a future. Could I live with such kind of jealousy, irrational paranoia my whole life ? No, at least nobody who appreciates his own.

 

Yes, she was a beauty and in general nice - but sometimes, that's not enough.

 

Thank you all.

[Downtown]

HC, as we discussed six weeks ago, walking away from a person having strong BPD traits is very painful, especially for caregivers like us. As you say, you had the strength to make the "hard choice" and stick with it. You did well. VERY well.

[HardChoice]

HC, as we discussed six weeks ago, walking away from a person having strong BPD traits is very painful, especially for caregivers like us. As you say, you had the strength to make the "hard choice" and stick with it. You did well. VERY well.

 

 

Thanks a lot - I suppose only people who gone through something like that, can rely.

 

Anyway, sometimes I have some kind of "saturday and sunday - down" that's happening in the morning and I have difficulties to motivate myself to do anything.

 

During the week, I am busy with my work, in the evening meeting up with friends, going to the gym but on saturday and sunday I feel some kind of emptiness.

[HardChoice]

Small Update:

 

I read some old messages (damn, I am an Idiot!!!!), here a summarize of patterns:

 

The last messages she wrote me were like:

"I need a guy who treats me well, who shows me everday how much he loves me, whom I can trust and who never betrays me but you are cold like a stone. You never put any effort in the relationship, gossiped about me with your friends, broke you promises...you remember when you have been in amsterdam ? You told me you will send me a lot of pictures, I only got two. Remember how you promised the vaccation ? Nothing - just words. You have disappointed me so many times.. I can't take that anymore. For your friends, you always have time but for me just when it's comfortable for you. I want a man who makes me to the universe of his life and who shows me every day that I am his life".

 

Reality:

- We were living 24/7 and when we have been apart we have been texting a lot. I almost lost all my friendships and the time she was absent I used to keep a connection to them.

- I read a lot of messages. That's how the pattern looks like:

 

Me:"I bought you something really nice in Amsterdam. You will like it"

She:"No, I don't want you to buy me anything. Don't do that."

Me:"Too late..."

 

Me:"I love you my dear have a good night."

She:"Good night"

Me:"That's all ..?"

She:"Yeah, you just do it because you know I want it."

Me:"No, I am really missing you.

She:"Lies, Lies, Lies.."

 

Me:"I am looking forward to see you tonight."

She:"Ah, No we won't see tonight. You told me you want to have your "freedom", here it is. Let's see in 3-4 days"

 

Me:"Well, a bit I have to admit...I am missing you if you are not around"

She:"Don't talk bull****. You want sex - that's all."

 

She:"Can you check my CV tonight ?"

Me:"Well, I wanted to go to XY - let's do it on saturday, I mean either friday night or saturday does not matter"

She:"If your friends ask you, you do it immediately but for your girlfriend..always the same bull**** with you. No, don't do it, I do it on my own"

 

So each time I told her something nice, it was punched down. How much affection should you give a girl ?! Spending 24/7, trying to get our lifes on track and still complaints.

 

What's wrong with such kind of girls ?

 

Believe me or not, I would give 5000 Bucks to get my old life back. God, never expected to whine on an anonymous internet board.

[Downtown]

What's wrong with such kind of girls?

If she is a BPDer as we discussed, she is filled with so much self loathing that she is incapable of believing you will love her for very long. She has a great fear of abandonment, fearing that you will walk away when you realize how empty she is on the inside. Until she learns how to trust herself, she cannot trust you to remain the same day to day.

 

A BPDer's feeling of emptiness is so profound that trying to fill it up is as futile as trying to fill the Grand Canyon with a squirt gun. The result is that it is impossible to build up a lasting sense of appreciation that you can later draw on during the hard days. Trying to do so is like trying to build a lasting sandcastle beside the sea. Her feelings of appreciation and gratitude will soon be washed aside by the next tide of intense feelings flooding her mind.

[HardChoice]

If she is a BPDer as we discussed, she is filled with so much self loathing that she is incapable of believing you will love her for very long. She has a great fear of abandonment, fearing that you will walk away when you realize how empty she is on the inside. Until she learns how to trust herself, she cannot trust you to remain the same day to day.

 

A BPDer's feeling of emptiness is so profound that trying to fill it up is as futile as trying to fill the Grand Canyon with a squirt gun. The result is that it is impossible to build up a lasting sense of appreciation that you can later draw on during the hard days. Trying to do so is like trying to build a lasting sandcastle beside the sea. Her feelings of appreciation and gratitude will soon be washed aside by the next tide of intense feelings flooding her mind.

 

Yes, between EVEN when I assure her, make her compliments, she refuses it. I mean, I could even do that on a daily base but I have the feeling, that I am getting more or less punished for it.

 

That's the most weirdest part.

 

Make compliments -> lying, not meaning serious, just saying

Not making compliments -> insensitive, uncaring

 

So, basically, no matter which path I take I always end up blowing up...?!

 

Hell, If I am reading all the 650 WhatsApp pages, I am surprised by myself that I was able to handle that for so long. Maybe it's because of my TOO optimisitic attitude in life (i.e. "ah, everything will be fine, always..")

[Downtown]

So, basically, no matter which path I take I always end up blowing up...?!

HC, with a BPDer, you usually will find yourself in a lose/lose situation. You will be wrong if you do and wrong if you don't. You cannot avoid triggering her fears regardless of whether you draw near to comfort her or move farther away to give her breathing space.

 

This conundrum is due to the position of her two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- at opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means that, as you back away from one fear to avoid triggering it, you will start triggering the fear at the other end of that same spectrum.

 

Your predicament is that the solution to calming her abandonment fear (drawing close and being intimate) is the very action that triggers her engulfment fear. Likewise, the solution to calming her engulfment fear (moving back away to give her breathing space) is the very action that triggers her abandonment fear.

 

Hence, as you move close to comfort her and assure her of your love, you eventually will start triggering her engulfment fear, making her feel like she's being suffocated and controlled by you. Because she has such a weak unstable self identity, she has virtually no personal boundaries. This means she quickly becomes enmeshed into your strong stable personality when you two are intimate.

 

The result is that she starts feeling controlled and may even get a scary feeling that she is somehow losing herself inside your self identity. She therefore will create a fight over nothing to push you away. This, incidentally, is why BPDers typically start the very WORST fights during or immediately after the very BEST of times.

 

Sadly, as you back away to give her breathing space, you will find that you've started triggering her abandonment fear. I'm sorry to report that, in my 15 years of experience with my BPD exW, I found that there is no midpoints solution (between "too close" and "too far away") where you can safely stand to avoid triggering those two fears.

 

Until a BPDer learns how to better regulate her own emotions and tame her two fears, that Goldilocks position will not exist. This is why a relationship with an untreated BPDer typically is characterized by a repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back.

 

Indeed, even if you are sitting perfectly still and not saying a word, a pwBPD who is experiencing hurtful feelings will project those feelings onto YOU. Her subconscious does this to protect her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality -- and to externalize the pain, getting it outside her body. Because that projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, she will consciously be convinced that the painful feeling or hurtful thought is coming from YOU.

 

Hence, as long as you remain in a relationship with an untreated BPDer having strong symptoms, you will often find yourself hurting her -- i.e., triggering her engulfment fear as you draw near, triggering her abandonment fear as you draw back, and triggering her anger even when you are sitting still in a room saying absolutely nothing.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Downtown

[HardChoice]

HC, with a BPDer, you usually will find yourself in a lose/lose situation. You will be wrong if you do and wrong if you don't. You cannot avoid triggering her fears regardless of whether you draw near to comfort her or move farther away to give her breathing space.

 

This conundrum is due to the position of her two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- at opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means that, as you back away from one fear to avoid triggering it, you will start triggering the fear at the other end of that same spectrum.

 

Your predicament is that the solution to calming her abandonment fear (drawing close and being intimate) is the very action that triggers her engulfment fear. Likewise, the solution to calming her engulfment fear (moving back away to give her breathing space) is the very action that triggers her abandonment fear.

 

Hence, as you move close to comfort her and assure her of your love, you eventually will start triggering her engulfment fear, making her feel like she's being suffocated and controlled by you. Because she has such a weak unstable self identity, she has virtually no personal boundaries. This means she quickly becomes enmeshed into your strong stable personality when you two are intimate.

 

The result is that she starts feeling controlled and may even get a scary feeling that she is somehow losing herself inside your self identity. She therefore will create a fight over nothing to push you away. This, incidentally, is why BPDers typically start the very WORST fights during or immediately after the very BEST of times.

 

Sadly, as you back away to give her breathing space, you will find that you've started triggering her abandonment fear. I'm sorry to report that, in my 15 years of experience with my BPD exW, I found that there is no midpoints solution (between "too close" and "too far away") where you can safely stand to avoid triggering those two fears.

 

Until a BPDer learns how to better regulate her own emotions and tame her two fears, that Goldilocks position will not exist. This is why a relationship with an untreated BPDer typically is characterized by a repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back.

 

Indeed, even if you are sitting perfectly still and not saying a word, a pwBPD who is experiencing hurtful feelings will project those feelings onto YOU. Her subconscious does this to protect her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality -- and to externalize the pain, getting it outside her body. Because that projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, she will consciously be convinced that the painful feeling or hurtful thought is coming from YOU.

 

Hence, as long as you remain in a relationship with an untreated BPDer having strong symptoms, you will often find yourself hurting her -- i.e., triggering her engulfment fear as you draw near, triggering her abandonment fear as you draw back, and triggering her anger even when you are sitting still in a room saying absolutely nothing.

 

15 years ?! Oh, my god you MUST HAVE BEEN damaged more than I can imagine.

 

But makes sense - no matter what you do, it's always wrong. Thanks a good I kept my job and did not move with her.

 

You know I almost believed what she said about me - but now as I read the 650 Pages (if you print it!) of Whatsapp messages, I see how nice and caring I have been.

 

But anyway, I know, now there is another guy in the trap. ;-)

 

I am happy that she is gone - seriously. I would LOVE to let her know that I know about her know - that I KNOW who she is.

 

But maybe another point:

 

I still feel quite helpless, I mean I am going better, able to go to work but when I am home I just want to have my "peace". Before her, I liked to go out, go out with friends, hitting the gym but still somehow I am emotionally messed. What can I do ?