Author giotto Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 Could you tell her that the reason you left was not sex but rather that you were not capable or strong enough to deal with her mental illness? Maybe this will wake her up and give her the strength to do something. We've had many discussions about this. She knows the impact all of this is having on me. I have dealt with this for the last 15 years, with the promise she would seek help. She hasn't and she never will (her words). I know she is not well, but I can't cope anymore and instead of spiralling into deep depression myself, I have to get out. I understand the vows, but I'm getting ill as well. Would that be of any use? To anybody? It's time I look after myself before it's too late. We still have 2 children to look after on and off. I need to be sane and available for them. I'm keeping an eye on my wife... it's not that I'm disappearing, but I have to protect myself. Link to post Share on other sites
SummerDreams Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 What you are saying now is more honorable and candid than "I left for sex". I wish you good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 What you are saying now is more honorable and candid than "I left for sex". I wish you good luck. Thank you... stopping the sex unilaterally has compounded my depression even further. She obviously sees that as the main reason for my leaving (she is ill after all), but it just pushed me to the edge and I have to function to run the house and the kids, even if we are separated. I'm separating because I need to protect myself too. I'm not abandoning her. I'm worried about her and I want to make sure she doesn't get worse. I know she sees my action as selfish, but it's not. I'm not just leaving "for sex". But she refuses to understand my reasons. Link to post Share on other sites
SummerDreams Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Do you realize you are contradicting yourself though? First you say you need sex for intimacy, now you say you need it to function but then you say you are not interested in finding another woman. Do you see why your wife might be confused with what you are saying? Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 Do you realize you are contradicting yourself though? First you say you need sex for intimacy, now you say you need it to function but then you say you are not interested in finding another woman. I need sex for intimacy with my wife. Without it, it makes my functioning in our relationship even more difficult. It makes me more depressed. I'm not interested in other women. I have explained this to her. She still thinks I'm leaving her for sex. Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 My daughter lived with major depression for some time. The worst wasn't the sadness. It was when she reached the "nothingness", the prospect of living he rest of her life like that was moe than she could take If your wife has reached that point, you have my upmost sympathy. It's awful. She was a minor at the time so we could make her get help.Recovery took a huge amount of work on her part, and it was over several years. If your wife was anything like how our daughter got, marriage is not the place for her. SO much of your self is focused on your own illness and getting better that it leaves you little room for anything else. Some people can make it work and will put the effort in, others get too lost in their illness. If you let them, they'll drag you along too. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 Some people can make it work and will put the effort in, others get too lost in their illness. If you let them, they'll drag you along too. My dilemma has always been this. She's lost in her illness and she can't find a way out, apart from trying to function by swallowing a (now) hefty dose of anti-depressants. All of this has dragged me along and down, has made me angry, depressed and difficult to live with. So, I had to break this co-dependency cycle, but it's difficult. It's difficult to see her struggling and there's nothing I can do about it. I could stay and support her, I guess. But that would make me even more depressed. Two depressed people? How is that going to work? I feel guilty about leaving her and I am also terribly worried, but I have to protect myself too... all in all, I still feel trapped, because these feeling are not leaving me, even with therapy. Maybe I should go back and be a martyr for the rest of my life... Link to post Share on other sites
Marc878 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 You don't need anyone's approval to do what you think is right for your life. You only get one. There are no do overs or mulligans here. Everyone who has issues that are fixable bears the responsibility to at least take a step in that direction. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 Everyone who has issues that are fixable bears the responsibility to at least take a step in that direction. Yes, but it's her illness that it's stopping her from going any further... so, where do we draw the line? From the outside, she pretends everything is fine, but I know she is fighting a losing battle inside. I can't do anything to help and I'm watching her trying to survive and failing miserably. This is really heartbreaking and I can't help feeling guilty for abandoning her. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Everyone who has issues that are fixable bears the responsibility to at least take a step in that direction. Are her issues fixable? Mental illness is not like breaking a leg. Put the leg in plaster for a few weeks and it is as good as new... It doesn't work like that for mental health issues. Sufferers especially long term sufferers do not think like mentally healthy people. They get stuck in abnormal thought processes, that often mean they do not seek help. Their motivation to do anything about their illness is often severely restricted by their illness, and some are convinced they are acting normally and do not need help and some are "happy" in their "ill" state. Some have little or no insight into their condition. With mental health issues in the mix, there are no easy fixes. The normal rules of marriage or relationship advice do not apply as there is no "normal". Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 Are her issues fixable? They cannot be fixed, but they can be managed better with a combined therapy (drugs + CBT). My wife believes CBT (+ ERP) therapy to be a waste of time. She says it doesn't work. But she hasn't tried it. Because she doesn't want to face her ghosts. It's the illness talking. I get it. But where does this leave me? She could function, we could have a family life and a full marriage before. With menopause, empty nest syndrome and depression, her symptoms are getting worse, to the point that she's doubled her SSRI's dose... I don't see any improvement, though. I have told her I'm always around to support her, but I'm not the problem. The problem is in her head. And I can't fix that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 (edited) Update: my wife had a nervous breakdown, so I've gone back to her to support her. I cancelled the separation for the moment. We are not having a sexual relation, I'm just there to help her until she recovers. I'm not staying forever, just for the moment. I've also developed an incurable skin condition, probably stress-related. Her present, I guess... 😂 So, my life is at a standstill again. To be honest, I don't really care. When she is better, I will be gone again... Edited December 23, 2019 by giotto 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BC1980 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Your wife doesn't sound mentally fit enough to be in a marriage, and she might never be. Some people just aren't good partners and can't function in a relationship. If you want out of this dysfunction, you'll have to just pull the bandaid off and file divorce papers. She's a grown up, and you're not her keeper. Sounds like you've done what you can do. I couldn't live with someone like that. How depressing to have a marriage with no sex either. Physical intimacy is just as important as emotional intimacy. Your thread sounds so hopeless. Please get out of this awful situation. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 My sympathies during this difficult time. Given the general winter tone and holiday stresses, hopefully this is transitory and she'll bounce back. I know the holiday periods were always tough when I was caregiving and usually got better after. Keep posting. A lot of people know your story and hopefully more old-timers will show up with the new forum to assist. It'll work out. It is tough to leave someone we've spent our lives with even recognizing it's an unhealthy situation to remain in. Best wishes! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 I'm sorry you're having such a bad time, Giotto. Please go forward knowing that this was an unusual rare circumstance and it's unlikely that the same thing or similar will happen to you again. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BluEyeL Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 I am sorry this happened to you and everything is so difficult. I am a woman and I do not understand why some people shame you for leaving for lack of sex. I think it's a very good reason to leave a mariage. Expecting one to never have sex again in their lives with their spouse is just too much. Relationships sometimes end in this day and time and both can go on with their lives. We live longer lives and we don't marry for goats, land, and survival, we expect a partner and sex. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted December 26, 2019 Author Share Posted December 26, 2019 Thanks for your comments... my wife is better and we spent Christmas together, as a family, with some of the children. Although very nice, going back has made me realise that our marriage is indeed dead and buried. At least, it's served some purpose. I guess it will be difficult to leave her again when the time comes, but I can't be in this marriage like this. She needs help, but I have exhausted all the options and I can't be there for her all the time if she wants to maintain the status quo. I also have my health to consider now. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Ellener Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Good luck for the new year and your plans. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 7 hours ago, giotto said: ... my wife is better and we spent Christmas together, as a family, with some of the children. How much of her mental improvement is directly linked to you coming home to her and calling off the separation? Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, elaine567 said: How much of her mental improvement is directly linked to you coming home to her and calling off the separation? Probably a lot. I think she felt lost on her own, so I gave her stability back. As my daughter said to me when I mentioned that she seemed happier, she replied: she's got what she wanted. Very true. The separation has been called off momentarily, for the time being. I never said it was called off permanently. At first I thought I made a mistake. Then I spoke with the therapist and I slowly started to realise I had to go through this step to finally detach completely. Somehow, I was still hoping that she would want me back. Now I know 100% it's over. I'm not looking forward to the new separation - for me, for my wife and the children - because we will have to start the process again. But I don't want to be in this prison for the rest of my life. Edited December 27, 2019 by giotto 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ellener Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 I actually think it's beautiful that you have considered every angle of this, tried all you can. It makes you a compassionate, whole, authentic person: you signed up for something and did your best to see it through. Now you're ready to let go, gently and with more compassion. My marriage, oh my goodness, I could not let go. My ex was symbolically in his own dysfunctional way trying all he could to end it, I don't want to diminuish domestic violence or abuse in any way but that's where we should have recognised immediately- this is too wrong. Instead we got further entangled via well-meaning friends and counsellors etc. It wasn't fixable, we couldn't even be civil to each other, let alone fix our sex life or raise a child together happily; if we had accepted this earlier there would have been less drama, I won't say less mental illness because later when I got super-stressed by the flood/losing my home etc I also developed severe anxiety disorder and I've had to learn to manage that. Nothing to do with anyone else- it's part of me and my responsibility to manage. Fortunately I had good health-seeking-themselves people around me to help by this point. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 21 minutes ago, giotto said: Probably a lot. I think she felt lost on her own, so I gave her stability back. As my daughter said to me when I mentioned that she seemed happier, she replied: she's got what she wanted. Very true. OK I get you are now clearer in your own mind regarding separation, but how are you going to convince her that you leaving is going to be the best option for her. I can see this quickly reverting back to "breakdown" territory as soon as you tell her you are leaving again. Is she getting continuing support or is she "fixed" now that you are back on the scene?. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 4 hours ago, Ellener said: I actually think it's beautiful that you have considered every angle of this, tried all you can. It makes you a compassionate, whole, authentic person: you signed up for something and did your best to see it through. Now you're ready to let go, gently and with more compassion. My wife wouldn't see it like that. She sees me like an angry man, who hounded her for sex, making her life miserable (well, for some years). She doesn't see the reason for my behaviour. Yes, I went through a phase of being angry and isolated myself and that's when she detached. I didn't hound her for sex. We were having sex twice a month, if at all. She couldn't and still can't see beyond her immediate need of defending herself from the outside world. I wish we divorced 15 years ago, when - instead - she opted for a fake compromise. I have faults, but I did my best in light of the zero information I was given about her condition and mental state. And even that wasn't her fault. Wasn't her fault she was ill and she could not tell me. It's one of those things. I have accepted it now and I don't feel guilty anymore. But I'm not looking forward to let her go gently... I never know what's going to happen next. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 3 hours ago, elaine567 said: OK I get you are now clearer in your own mind regarding separation, but how are you going to convince her that you leaving is going to be the best option for her. I can see this quickly reverting back to "breakdown" territory as soon as you tell her you are leaving again. Is she getting continuing support or is she "fixed" now that you are back on the scene?. I don't think I will ever be able to convince her unfortunately. She doesn't really function like a "normal" person... but I don't think she will revert to breakdown territory. This time she won't be able to accuse me of leaving her for sex. I have come back to support her, wanting nothing from her. When I leave next, it won't be because of sex... it will be because there is no relationship at all. There is nothing left and there is no point in us being together. I won't be leaving her because I want to be with someone else. I want to leave because we are not even friends now. She has achieved her goal. I have fallen out of love and I am ready to go. She's stopped seeing her therapist. Didn't last long. I'm afraid her sisters will have to take care of her when I'm gone. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 I am not sure why you think she can't accuse you of leaving for sex. You left for sex, you came home, there was no sex and so you left again... It is a moot point though as it is not "the reason" that is important. It is the fact you are leaving and she will be all alone again that I guess is the most important bit to her. Link to post Share on other sites
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