Long term marriage is unraveling.

[rick2016]

First of all I apologize for such a long post .....

 

I have been married for 41 yrs...we are both in our 60s....You would think after all that time that a couple would be enjoying life, and enjoying each other, but that’s not even close to what is going on in our marriage.

 

As I go through the facts I am going to be as fair as I can and accurately describe the issue that have been going on a very long time .

 

I would say the turning point for us was at least 10 to 15 yrs ago..It’s been a very gradual decline in a relationship going from happy and loving , to unhappy and not loving.

To start with my wife has always had low Self-esteem, and does not like herself, she says growing up, her mother was verbally abusive, which I agree.

 

My wife has always felt I did not love her , even in the early days , and although I was not the kind to cuddle her and tell her she beautiful and compliment her , I was always there supporting our family..and she never did without anything she wanted ...but she always wanted that soap opera type romance, that was not part of my personality.We had two children that are adults now.

 

The early years we both worked but my wife lost her job in 1993 and never went to work again, so it was all on me , to pay the bills and keep a roof over our head, but I was able to do it , and my family never did without.

 

The earliest I can remember of things starting to change is when we started sleeping in separate rooms because we both have issues sleeping, so it’s good for both of us, but you loose that closeness.

Then just activities such as watching Tv ..I hate what she likes and vice versa, so we are never in the same room, except to eat.

 

The big change that came was when she went through menopause, she admits she is not the same person .there very little left of the women I married and her personality has completely changed and not for the better. Life changes all of us , but menopause has made my wife very cold with little compassion..

 

Menopause has been going on for 10 yrs...since that time , sex and touching is gone..if I try to get her to help me..she complains, wants nothing to do with me..because she is not interested anymore.

So now I have resentment, not because of no sex, because of no contact at all..A loving partner does not do that to your life partner even if your not interested.

In my eyes and it works both ways , your just opening up a door for a wife or husband to seek companionship elsewhere.

 

She has changed so much in her personality, it’s like I don’t even know her....she will say things that don’t make sense..Like the day I said, let’s go see the grandchildren,and she says it’s to hot...too hot....we have AC in the car and they have AC in there home...who would not want to see there grandchildren and she loves her grandchildren.

 

And there is more ...I notice she stopped her Breast exams...I said why...she says because I don’t care about myself..I said think of your grandchildren, she says , if I get breast cancer I would not go through the treatment. ( her mother had breast cancer )My reply to that is your being selfish and only thinking of yourself.

 

So this brings out the subject of depression, and she says I think I have depression but not everyday, there are days I feel better.

When she was going through menopause, I said you need to get your estrogen and testosterone checked, I mentioned a few times but she will not get a simple blood test done.

I ask her to see the Doctor about depression, she will not go...She says she will be fine as long as I watch what I say , she tells me to support her...so she wants me to be her doctor.

I am not a mean person but over the years I have said rude remarks to her and she hangs on to them, even 20 yrs ago....she will not let anything go......I told her it’s not healthy to hang onto that, she is self destructive.

 

When your with a person , with low self-asteem and they don’t like themselves, it does not take much to upset them, a simple statement that most would just roll off them, it hits my wife deep..

When she upset she goes to bed for a couple days...and I just leave her alone , because bugging her does no good.

 

So I am with somebody that will not help themselves, I don’t think we even love each other anymore , everything has become so clouded..

There is not a lot of fighting, it’s quiet here, I keep to myself and through-out the day we don’t interact much. I don’t drink or smoke or do drugs..I am in good shape and I shower everyday, I just did not want you to think I am one of those other guys..lol

 

Other then kids and grandchildren we have very very little in common anymore.

I think if we had the financial means to live apart we would, but we do not.

 

If she would only help herself, then I could see she is trying, but she won’t even consider it...she wants me to support her and watch what I say, which just makes me say less to her because I do not know ahead of time what might trigger her..

 

You cannot help somebody that will not help themselves, We talked about marriage counseling, but of course she will not do it .

All this whole thing is bringing me down...I want to enjoy life, I don’t feel I have a lot of time left.

I feel like I should just leave her behind, if I want to travel or go to an event I will go it alone..I cannot see any light at the end of the tunnel.

Edited July 13, 2018 by rick2016

[d0nnivain]

It does sound like she checked out. So the Q becomes what do you want? If you want more of this stick around. If you want to try one more time to motivate her to change, give her an ultimatum -- marriage counseling or divorce. You have to be prepared to follow though if you go that route. If you are truly concerned about her health, see if you can get your kids to motivate her to go to a doctor.

[What_Did_I_Do]

As hard as you try, you can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves, even a life long spouse.

 

It doesn't seem like starting over as a divorced man is an option for you. If you can coast with your current living arrangement, why not pursue hobbies and activities that interest you. Go see your kids and grandkids. Let your wife stay at home and miss out on life. Why should you swill around in the bottom of the bucket with her? Life is so short...enjoy it while you have your health and resources.

[BluesPower]

Frankly... You blew it for the first 40 years of your marriage.

 

Not to be unkind, but you were a dolt. When you love a woman with low self esteem it, IMHO, is your job to help build that, it is not that hard.

 

Regardless, she has checked out. And she is depressed from your description.

 

Question is, what are you going to do. We could give you all the advice in the world, but it is not going to help, esp if she will not help herself.

 

Do you want to divorce, or what?

[rick2016]

Do I want a Divorce.? No...I just want a non-stressful ending to my life....Financially we would not be able to live apart, but even if we could, I am not sure it’s the answer...

Like I said , it’s quiet here , we are not at each other throats...

 

I am not sure if I should be accountable to bringing her out of her mental problems from the beginning.

I believe it’s up to the person to seek professional help....if you suffer from depression do you expect your spouse to make it all better, not likely..

 

And our younger years where different , she was able to cope with the stresses in life, we raised to kids, we had jobs...

What her mother did needed to be address by a professional, but as with a lot of mental illness, as life goes on it got worse..

 

By the way she loved her mother and looked after her like a loving daughter should ..She was there for her mother tell the end..

 

I went through depression also along with a chronic illness ( fibromyalgia) but instead of expecting my wife to make everything better , I went to many Doctors, I went to support groups, and I got on medication to help my depression , as far as the Fibromyalgia goes, it’s an on going challenge after 22 yrs of it..

So instead of crawling in a hole in self pity and expecting my spouse to help me, I went to professionals and it has been a long road and still is...

[giotto]

Do I want a Divorce.? No...I just want a non-stressful ending to my life....Financially we would not be able to live apart, but even if we could, I am not sure it’s the answer...

Like I said , it’s quiet here , we are not at each other throats...

 

I am not sure if I should be accountable to bringing her out of her mental problems from the beginning.

I believe it’s up to the person to seek professional help....if you suffer from depression do you expect your spouse to make it all better, not likely..

 

And our younger years where different , she was able to cope with the stresses in life, we raised to kids, we had jobs...

What her mother did needed to be address by a professional, but as with a lot of mental illness, as life goes on it got worse..

 

By the way she loved her mother and looked after her like a loving daughter should ..She was there for her mother tell the end..

 

I went through depression also along with a chronic illness ( fibromyalgia) but instead of expecting my wife to make everything better , I went to many Doctors, I went to support groups, and I got on medication to help my depression , as far as the Fibromyalgia goes, it’s an on going challenge after 22 yrs of it..

So instead of crawling in a hole in self pity and expecting my spouse to help me, I went to professionals and it has been a long road and still is...

 

I'm a bit younger but I have a wife with similar "problems"... despite what the others say, it's not easy to "convince" anybody to snap out of a mental condition... my wife hasn't managed it and I have tried everything. It hasn't worked. Now menopausal, she has suggested a sexless marriage that, at 55, I had to decline. No, sorry, I'm just too young. I've proposed living under the same roof but separate lives. She's agreed to that. Maybe you could do the same.

[Doost]

You should just be greatful you two aren’t fighting. Let her be miserable. You be happy and visit the grandchildren and travel alone if you must. Maybe get a younger gf on the side for sexual needs. Think of your wife as a roommate and keep the peace. If she wants to be self destructive so be it.

[Striver]

How are things with your children? Are they available to be confidants at all? To give you emotional support?

[BluesPower]

Do I want a Divorce.? No...I just want a non-stressful ending to my life....Financially we would not be able to live apart, but even if we could, I am not sure it’s the answer...

Like I said , it’s quiet here , we are not at each other throats...

 

I am not sure if I should be accountable to bringing her out of her mental problems from the beginning.

I believe it’s up to the person to seek professional help....if you suffer from depression do you expect your spouse to make it all better, not likely..

 

And our younger years where different , she was able to cope with the stresses in life, we raised to kids, we had jobs...

What her mother did needed to be address by a professional, but as with a lot of mental illness, as life goes on it got worse..

 

By the way she loved her mother and looked after her like a loving daughter should ..She was there for her mother tell the end..

 

I went through depression also along with a chronic illness ( fibromyalgia) but instead of expecting my wife to make everything better , I went to many Doctors, I went to support groups, and I got on medication to help my depression , as far as the Fibromyalgia goes, it’s an on going challenge after 22 yrs of it..

So instead of crawling in a hole in self pity and expecting my spouse to help me, I went to professionals and it has been a long road and still is...

 

Depression and low self esteem...are different. I am just saying that if you had realized in the past you could have done something to help her with that, but it is too late now.

 

But if you care, for whatever reason, women need to be TOLD how much we love them, they need to be TOLD that they look pretty, and they need to be shown.

 

It really does not matter now, but that is how it is.

 

Mental health issues are different. All you can do the ask them to get help, maybe take them to appointment, learn about their particular issue so you can deal with it differently.

 

Do you see the different issues.

 

But really if you don't want to divorce, then you are stuck in an unhappy situation.

 

Not really sure what to tell you to, I would not stay in it, but that is just me...

[Doost]

How are things with your children? Are they available to be confidants at all? To give you emotional support?

 

I would leave the family out of this if possible.

[Poutrew]

This happened to a relative of mine, some years ago. His wife had much the same attitude as yours does. He, on the other hand, was a happy go lucky guy. In the end, they stayed married, but agreed to live separate lives. He told her that if she died first, he would give her a decent funeral, and she agreed to the same for him. Well, she eventually became a shut in, sitting all day in a rocking chair and he had many women 'friends' he would see - never a dull moment. He came home one day to find his wife had died of a heart attack. The phone was right next to her, untouched...He gave her a decent funeral. He died a decade later, choked to death at a girlfriends' home... now, they are both buried next to each other for all eternity, their problems gone...ironically, they both got what they wanted.

 

In the end you might just have to settle for the least traumatic path, especially if divorce is not an option.

[Lotsgoingon]

Frankly, this is an easy call for me. Why put up with a relationship that no longer works? We do not win bonus points at the end of life for putting up with someone who is miserable.

 

I really draw the line at refusing treatment. If I'm with someone who refuses treatment (for whatever condition), then as far as I'm concerned, it's not my job to work around this refusal ... and the pain resulting from that.

 

If treatment doesn't work, that's another thing. I'm compassionate towards people who try treatment and it doesn't work ... But to not try treatment, I'm out of here.

 

Depends on what you want out of life and how much you value your life. If you're content to endure misery to your last days then stay ... If you want to live more fully, then exit. Better yet, start to live more fully now ... on the way to an exit.

 

You might try a few more options to see if they work ... just so you know you did everything you could. My mother was depressed in the last years of her life, and I went with her to the doctor, and told her doctor she was depressed. Doctor put her on an antidepressant that was amazingly helpful and effective.

 

Now, my mother was open to me going to the doctor with her, though she hemmed and hawed when I first told her I was going to go with her next time. My mom somehow would always put on the most optimistic face when going to the doctor--which showed that she still had some kick and life in her. She was willing herself to feel better.

 

But your wife sounds stubbornly committed to not getting treatment and has apparently given up on life.

 

If she is depressed, I think it's fine to get the children involved. Depression and loss of interest in life is every bit the health issue as heart disease or stroke or cancer.

 

Adult children can be idiotically blind to a parent's wellbeing and the need to step up their role and assist a parent. I think that's fully legit to get the kids involved, especially if there is a child who is particularly close to your wife.

 

Now, things are slightly tricky ... you don't wanna talk necessarily about her low esteem or about the marriage. It will, however, be obvious to the kids that the marriage is in trouble because of the depression.

 

Also, you can call her doctor without her permission. Doctors sometimes want to hear about issues even though the ethics here are a little fuzzy. But as husband, I think you're in your right to call her doctor without her pre-approval.

 

Note: getting her treated for depression is a good in and of itself and treatment still may not save the marriage. That's fine. You are giving her a chance to live and yourself a chance to really live with her.

 

Tough situation, brother. I just don't think it's your duty to live with a chronically depressed person for the rest of your life.

 

In the meantime, do the activities and hobbies you want to do. Don't try to hide your own happiness and vibrancy simply to match her mood. No, that's not good ... and not good even for a depressed person.

[Mr. Lucky]

Do I want a Divorce.? No...I just want a non-stressful ending to my life....Financially we would not be able to live apart, but even if we could, I am not sure it’s the answer...

Like I said , it’s quiet here , we are not at each other throats...

 

To a certain extent, you’re doing the same thing here your wife does to you - ignoring every realistic solution. There are three likely outcomes -

 

- Divorce and go on with your life

- Stay on the course you’re on

- Stay together but develop other arrangements for your unmet needs

 

The first and third are proactive choices, the second a passive one.

 

It’s a choice no one but you can make. At some point you’ll have to stop wishing and hoping and start acting. When that happens, the rest of your life will begin...

 

Mr. Lucky

[burnt]

To a certain extent, you’re doing the same thing here your wife does to you - ignoring every realistic solution. There are three likely outcomes -

 

- Divorce and go on with your life

- Stay on the course you’re on

- Stay together but develop other arrangements for your unmet needs

 

The first and third are proactive choices, the second a passive one.

 

It’s a choice no one but you can make. At some point you’ll have to stop wishing and hoping and start acting. When that happens, the rest of your life will begin...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

^^^ Well said.

To add:

 

About You:

Divorcing doesn't sound like an option due to financial limitations. OK, so that's out. So the question is what can you do/get that would make make your life happier?

Which brings the question: what do you want? What do you need?

 

It sounds like you are still seeking physical intimacy but your wife is not. Can you tell your wife (not request, but tell) that your needs are not being met and that you will now seek that outside the marriage. If you choose that route, then you can start another thread here asking for help on how to find that.

Point is, divorce is not an option, but your wife changing to meet your needs is also not an option.

 

Which means the only option would be: stay married, but start doing things you like and enjoy. Doing things alone that you enjoy and finding new hobbies can be quite exhilarating actually. Please realize there are people who do that and still maintain a healthy lifestyle. Marriage doesn't mean all activities need to be shared. You two can have separate alone times where each can pursue what you like/need.

 

About Your Wife:

Your greatest mistake was repeated asking your wife to seek help for mental health. As someone who has suffered from depression for many years, all I can say is the worst thing you can do to make matters worse is pushing them and telling them they are mentally ill. When someone is feeling down hearing they are messed up only pulls them even deeper down.

 

The best and the kindest thing you can do now, is get off your high chair and leave her to decide how to help herself when she is ready and willing to do so. If she doesn't, she has the human right to do so: learn to respect that. Though you are the spouse, she is a human being with full rights to decide what treatment she wants or refuses.

By repeatedly pushing her all you are doing is making it worse.

 

She has told you what she needs from you:

Acceptance. Allow her to be as she is.

Respect. Allow her to be as she is.

 

Listen to her.

 

Stop trying to fix her.

 

If you can't, then stop saying anything at all.

Silence is much better than hearing the wrong thing.

[Lotsgoingon]

The original poster doesn't sound like he's pushing her at all.

 

He has endured going on 40 years of his wife's lack of interest.

 

Saying she will refuse even cancer checkups ... and doesn't care if she lives ... I don't see how giving someone "room" about that helps. She's not going through a phase. She's not struggling. She's going down ... and has been for a long while ... and has fully accepted this.

 

Heck maybe she's partly in despair about him ... and so encouraging her to get help might strengthen her to leave him. Even that is a better option for the OP than the current situation.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Lotsgoingon

[springy]

Agree with Blues's synopsis in post #4.

 

"My wife has always felt I did not love her , even in the early days , and although I was not the kind to cuddle her and tell her she beautiful and compliment her , I was always there supporting our family..and she never did without anything she wanted ...but she always wanted that soap opera type romance, that was not part of my personality."

 

Would it have killed you to compliment your wife and hold her from time to time? She was telling you what her needs were. Fine and dandy that you provided for her physical needs, but you left her hanging emotionally. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that most women "need" this from their partners, low self esteem or not...heck, some men like it too! So right here at the beginning is where the downhill slide began. It's not something I like therefore I won't do it. Stage 1 of how to kill a relationship.

 

 

"The earliest I can remember of things starting to change is when we started sleeping in separate rooms because we both have issues sleeping, so it’s good for both of us, but you loose that closeness.

Then just activities such as watching Tv ..I hate what she likes and vice versa, so we are never in the same room, except to eat."

 

Relationship killer #2... sleeping in separate rooms. I get it, you need to sleep, but what was attempted prior to bedroom separation? Even if you couldn't work it out, more effort needed to be put into activity outside of the bedroom. The TV thing...just sad. Was that the only thing you two did together? Watch TV? You became the most basic roommate relationship with these decisions. Any marital relationship would die under these conditions.

 

"Menopause has been going on for 10 yrs...since that time , sex and touching is gone..if I try to get her to help me..she complains, wants nothing to do with me..because she is not interested anymore.

So now I have resentment, not because of no sex, because of no contact at all..A loving partner does not do that to your life partner even if your not interested. "

 

Oh you don't say? Maybe it's just not a part of her personality anymore. It's your needs that aren't being met now. Now you've got real problems.

 

The woman is obviously deeply depressed. The fact that she hasn't bothered to seek help is not your fault, but what have you tried to do to ignite emotional intimacy? Did you ever go on dates? Did you try to think of a way to get back into the same room at night? Did you ever try complimenting her? Did you guys just have sex right after eating together and then go to your separate rooms to watch different TV programs?

 

It's possible that genuine concern and compassion from you would help her get to the place where she will seek help. I don't know that that is the case, but you might need to give in to some things that are "not your personality" to get the ball rolling. She is deeply depressed and has no motivation to change anything. Kids are grown. She's got a hubby in the house who won't cuddle with her, compliment her or do anything romantic but he does expect a helping hand every now and then.

 

The hormonal imbalance that comes with menopause isn't helping the situation but there's nothing motivating her to bring that part of her personality back to life.

 

I know it sounds as if I'm being harsh toward you but it seems like you've sat on the sideline passively watching your marriage die a slow death for many years now. You noticed things going downhill but did nothing to fix it (at least you don't mention it here). I wouldn't be too keen on kick-starting my sex drive for someone who never complimented me, held me, slept in separate rooms or romanced me in any way (again, I don't see any of that from your post). Throw menopause on top of that and it's no wonder she has no desire to correct it. She does not feel loved; probably hasn't for many years. That is a woman's basic need within a relationship (many, but not all!).

 

I'm not saying this is all your fault, but what have you done to nurture your wife's heart? I'm not implying it will fix her either, but maybe it would ignite a desire to seek help. It does sound like she's pretty far gone though, sadly.

 

I am far from the sappiest woman on the planet...but dayum...did you tell your wife she was pretty on a regular basis? Do you think your wife is pretty? Does she cook well - do/did you compliment that? Tell her what she means to you, or at least attempt to? Write it out if it's hard for you to say? Hug her? Buy her a flower or toss her a greeting card every now and then? Try to find some common ground somewhere?

 

Do you love her enough or think it's worth it to try to start (slowly & patiently) now?

 

It's great that you were able to "snap out if it" so to speak, and get help when you had problems but you are not your wife. Perhaps you had a more stable upbringing than she did and are more resilient. You can't expect her to react the same way you did...the same as you shouldn't have expected her to be okay with not being held or cuddled...the same as she shouldn't expect you to be okay with never having sex again.

 

Again, not saying all fault lies on you, or that any of my suggestions would change anything, but she didn't start this thread so I can only a suggest change in behavior from your end. I know I have made a ton of assumptions here based on limited information. Please correct me where I am wrong.