cliptec Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I've been married to my husband for more than a year now. We've been together for 4 years. The other day, he was massaging me and I just got curious and wondered if a woman can get aroused(get very wet down there) even while in deep sleep. And then he answered "You did not. Nothing happened." I was surprised and I asked him what he meant. Apparently, according to him, there was a time where I got so drunk I passed out and then he fondled my breast and genitals and fingered me. I was so shocked and said "Isnt that a form of rape? I was passed out." and he replied with "meh~" I got upset and mad at him. Then he said "I thought we are that close? It was an experiment to see your reaction and if you are going to be awaken by it." There were times where I know that he was asleep and I stroke him but he wakes up and gets horny and then we ended up having sex. Sometimes he would just get hard and then when he wakes up, I immediately tell him what happened. He didnt mind it and he was just amused by it. With what he did to me, he says it is the same and it should be fair. He said he did it a while ago. Now I'm confused and conflicted. Is it rape? Was it my fault? I wouldnt know what he did until I got curious. Was he hiding it from me? Now I feel uncomfortable. I feel betrayed. I feel paranoid and cant help to wonder what else has he done or what else could he do. If maybe he did it after i got curious, maybe I wouldnt be this upset....? I was sexually assaulted when I was younger 3x and I told him about it. I thought he would be more sensitive when it comes to sexual stuff. But Im still in disbelief that he did that while I was vulnerable, drunk and passed out. Im just crying trying to figure out how should I feel and handle all these confusing emotions. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) [] Rape is tied to consent. Since you were unable to give consent, you were sexually assaulted. Given your history, it's understandable why you'd be upset. This is a murky line in some marriages. Hopefully, by expressing your concerns clearly, you can ensure it won't happen again. Given the issues you've previously posted, doesn't seem like your husband has much respect for you or your feelings, a tough way to live... Mr. Lucky Edited July 18, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Topical content 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrin Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I hear you about your concerns and sensitivity. But by stroking him in his sleep you set the precedent in terms of martial behavior. What he did to you was similar and the only thing he didn't do was tell you proactively. So if you are wondering if it is rape then you have to also consider that what you did to him was also rape. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Yes, it's sexual assault. But given that you've done this to him and he enjoyed it, it's understandable he wouldn't be concerned with doing the same back to you. It's time for the two of you to sit down and discuss boundaries while you're sleeping. Find out who agrees to what. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Apparently, according to him, there was a time where I got so drunk I passed out and then he fondled my breast and genitals and fingered me. I was so shocked and said "Isnt that a form of rape? I was passed out." and he replied with "meh~" I got upset and mad at him. There were times where I know that he was asleep and I stroke him but he wakes up and gets horny and then we ended up having sex. Sometimes he would just get hard and then when he wakes up, I immediately tell him what happened. He didnt mind it and he was just amused by it. With what he did to me, he says it is the same and it should be fair. Now I'm confused and conflicted. Is it rape? Was it my fault? I wouldnt know what he did until I got curious. Was he hiding it from me? Now I feel uncomfortable. I feel betrayed. I feel paranoid and cant help to wonder what else has he done or what else could he do. Sexual assault is most definitely associated wih consent. If you were passed out, you did not give your consent. Technically, that is sexual assault. If he is asleep, and you touch him on his genitals, he is not able to give his consent. Technically, that is sexual assault. It does get murky in marriages... we don't always get consent before we touch our partners. Some individuals may really like to be awakened by wandering hands... others, perhaps not. You need to have a discussion with your husband and set some boundaries about what is acceptable to you, particularly because of your sensitivity and past history. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Romantic_Antics Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I feel that the key difference between her fondling of him and his fondling of her is that she was passed out drunk and completely incapable of providing any form of consent. Any normal person with at least half their marbles isn't going to accuse their significant other of sexual assault for trying to wake them up and get them in the mood for a late night mattress mambo. However, there is something inherently wrong with engaging in any form of penetration with an unconscious woman. To answer your question about whether or not it was your fault: absolutely not. Just because you fondled him while he was sleeping (and subsequently woke him up for consensual sex) doesn't give him the green light to fondle and finger you while you're unconscious and unresponsive. Your choices are to send him to jail for sexual assault or talk it out and set some appropriate boundaries to make sure he never does it again and doesn't think that it's ok to take advantage of an unconscious woman. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I feel that the key difference between her fondling of him and his fondling of her is that she was passed out drunk and completely incapable of providing any form of consent. There is something inherently wrong with engaging in any form of penetration with an unconscious woman. Very true. However, I would like to think that the issue could be discussed and that it won't be an issue in the future once some boundaries are decided upon. Link to post Share on other sites
Romantic_Antics Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Very true. However, I would like to think that the issue could be discussed and that it won't be an issue in the future once some boundaries are decided upon. As do I. I was just giving her two options, including that one. However, she told him about her past and he insensitively engaged in a form of the same behavior, expressed no remorse, justified it, and has left his own wife feeling uncomfortable, betrayed, paranoid, and ashamed. I would encourage the conversation, but she does have the option of taking it to the authorities. Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Any normal person with at least half their marbles isn't going to accuse their significant other of sexual assault for trying to wake them up and get them in the mood for a late night mattress mambo. This is assuming they are OK with being woken for sex. I've got really clear boundaries about not being touched when I'm asleep. I'm only OK being woken in the case of someone needing care....or if I'm snoring and need to roll over. If a person (even a partner) ignores my boundaries and wakes me with fondling - despite knowing that I'm not OK with it - then yes, it's sexual assault. It all goes back to permission. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JuneL Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 This thread reminds me of a scene in “The Way We Were”. In the strict sense, the character played by Barbra Streisand can be considered sexually assaulting Robert Redford’s character (she tried to have sex with him while he’s drunk/asleep). 1 Link to post Share on other sites
standtall Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) I feel that the key difference between her fondling of him and his fondling of her is that she was passed out drunk and completely incapable of providing any form of consent. OP, you need to talk this out with your husband. I would not even think to "send to him jail for sexual assault" unless you want to share a cell with him. Edited July 18, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 3 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 This is assuming they are OK with being woken for sex. I've got really clear boundaries about not being touched when I'm asleep. I'm only OK being woken in the case of someone needing care....or if I'm snoring and need to roll over. If a person (even a partner) ignores my boundaries and wakes me with fondling - despite knowing that I'm not OK with it - then yes, it's sexual assault. It all goes back to permission. LOL, I'm the same way. My husband knows to expect a fight if he wakes me for sex. Love my sleep. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
somanymistakes Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Everyone makes mistakes. Rather than worry about 'is this rape, was i raped' I think it's more important to work out why it happened, how both of you feel about it, and what you want to have happen in the future. Sometimes the best label for things is "bad sex". It sounds like he thought it would be okay and was within the realm of normal interaction between the two of you. He didn't mean harm. So just make it clear to him what your boundaries are for the future. Would you be okay with just your breasts being fondled while you're asleep? Tell him that. Tell him how much is okay, how much is too much. Be clear! And if you can, try to reassure him that you don't hate him forever because he's probably upset now too. People make fun of modern crazy sexual progressive types for having consent checklists, but if you actually USE them this sort of misunderstanding can be prevented. "How do you feel about sleep sex" is a conversation you should have before sharing a bed with someone!!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Uhh... yeah, the waters are REALLY murky here, especially given that you did it to him first. How about you two just sit down and discuss whether sleep fondling is OK or not? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) I've got really clear boundaries about not being touched when I'm asleep. I'm only OK being woken in the case of someone needing care....or if I'm snoring and need to roll over. If a person (even a partner) ignores my boundaries and wakes me with fondling - despite knowing that I'm not OK with it - then yes, it's sexual assault. It all goes back to permission. My wife and I often go to bed at different times (she's retired, I'm not), but the late arriving person almost always cuddles up, even briefly. Mr. Lucky Edited July 18, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 1 Link to post Share on other sites
somanymistakes Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Which is absolutely fine if both of you are happy with it. This is something couples need to talk about so they don't accidentally transgress because of different expectations. Some people get really handsy while they themselves are asleep, too, and that's also something they need to warn partners about if they know about it. Communication, communication, communication. Link to post Share on other sites
Doorstopper Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) One way to look at this is that he tried to initiate a sexual encounter with you, hoping you would wake up. You did not, and he stopped. If his intentions were sinister, it could/would have progressed much farther. I won't answer whether if I feel its an assault. It's not up to me to decide. Edited July 18, 2018 by Doorstopper 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Sometimes the best label for things is "bad sex". I think this best sums things up. And what are the characteristics of bad sex? Selfishness, poor communication, preconceptions and a lack of awareness, all present here in mass quantities. Doesn't seem like it would be that hard to talk this out. And if the OP's husband won't listen, doesn't seem like it would be that hard to make decisions from there. YMMV... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I would agree with posters who suggest you talk to your husband. Before you do, I would advise you to get your thoughts organized so that you can get them all out and in the open. Explain your discomfort to him and also why you feel that way without accusing him. Give him a chance to express his views, and hopefully, the two of you can come up with boundaries that will work for both of you in the future. If he is dismissive of your feelings or if he refuses to respect your views, that could be a point for serious concern. It's not just the act itself that's the issue, it would be the lack of respect for you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 I was sexually assaulted when I was younger 3x and I told him about it. I thought he would be more sensitive when it comes to sexual stuff. But Im still in disbelief that he did that while I was vulnerable, drunk and passed out. In this case, you have a right to feel violated. It's one thing to be asleep (chances are you're gonna wake up) but it's whole other thing when you're drunk and passed out, in a coma like sleep. You won't wake up to touch, let alone him fingering you. What he did was wrong, knowing your past and how vulnerable you were, he should not have done that. Now he knows it was wrong and he won't do it again. Talk it out and set some ground rules. If he wants to fool around with you and wake you up, there are other ways, gently rubbing your back and stroking your hair so when you wake up you won't feel invaded. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ElKay Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 You touched him when he couldn't consent and he touched you when you couldn't consent. Just set ground rules moving forward, but it isn't rape unless you admit you did that to him too. Link to post Share on other sites
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