Is the OM ghosting me?

[BettyDraper]

OP, open marriages are built on a very strong relationship and mutual respect for each other. "Strong" and "respectful" are not adjectives which I would use to describe your union. If you respected your husband, you wouldn't be pining after a one night stand rather than focusing on being truthful with your spouse.

[HiCrunchy]

 

But hey, at least this OP's husband has agreed to an open marriage, which I am sure you don't agree with, but I for one am glad that she will not have to suffer any longer...

 

I am probably one of the ones that disagree with you on this topic, because again not having sex with someone will NEVER be abuse. I stated why before, so I won't write it here.

 

Its like people that keep chasing exes that dumped them. We tell them to move on from that relationship because the keep getting rejected. In this case op is getting rejected sexually. Hence she should move on from the relationship, hence divorce, not cheating...

 

Anyways. I am glad she has made the relationship an open one. Because as I said before, couples define the parameters of their relationship. If her husband is cool with her banging random dudes to get off. Then there isn't a problem.

 

The problem comes when you break the parameters of the relationship and your partner's trust. Cheating (having other sexual partners when you have agreed to be exclusive) is not justified ever.

 

If these women you mentioned keep getting rejected sexually by their husbands, then they need to find them a man that will give them that attention WHILE honoring their vows/parameters of their relationship. Hence why they need to break up with their partner and not cheat on them if this is how they are truly feeling.

 

Hookups and being used is probably not the best outlet for women that want to feel beautiful. This is more so than just getting off. It might make them feel more empty and isn't a healthy thing in the long run. We all know all the heartbreak that comes extra martial affairs. Look at all the posts regarding that on this site.

 

In any case. I just wish OP will be careful sexually. And doesn't get attached to any of the men she finds on AM.

[BaileyB]

 

As I said before, couples define the parameters of their relationship. If her husband is cool with her banging random dudes to get off. Then there isn't a problem.

 

Cheating (having other sexual partners when you have agreed to be exclusive) is not justified ever. .

 

Is this truly an "open" relationship thought? Or, did she just get permission to cheat again?

 

It seems to me that he is not entirely ok with this arrangement, or he wouldn't have asked her to keep it private. It also seems to me not that only one partner has any intention of going outside the marriage.

 

To each their own and I do wish you happiness... But, I am inclined to agree with Betty. To have an open relationship, I would think that you would need a strong relationship where there is good communication and trust. I don't think we have it here which is what makes me think, this is not going to work well long term...

 

I also think, OP is going to learn quickly that happiness is not to be found in the arms of another man... Which could leave you feeling more lonely and depressed than you are right now. But - if she does find another man who brings something special to her life, I think it will be hard not to catch feeling and she will dump her husband faster than a hot potato...

 

Only time will tell...

[HiCrunchy]

Is this truly an "open" relationship thought? Or, did she just get permission to cheat again?

 

It seems to me that he is not entirely ok with this arrangement, or he wouldn't have asked her to keep it private. It also seems to me not that only one partner has any intention of going outside the marriage.

 

To each their own and I do wish you happiness... But, I am inclined to agree with Betty. To have an open relationship, I would think that you would need a strong relationship where there is good communication and trust. I don't think we have it here which is what makes me think, this is not going to work well long term...

 

I also think, OP is going to learn quickly that happiness is not to be found in the arms of another man... Which could leave you feeling more lonely and depressed than you are right now. But - if she does find another man who brings something special to her life, I think it will be hard not to catch feeling and she will dump her husband faster than a hot potato...

 

Only time will tell...

 

I wouldn't call it permission to cheat, because cheating is more so doing it without permission, though yeah her husband is going to be miserable because he wants to pretend she isn't having sex with other men, hence keeping it private.

 

Yes to have an open relationship that works well would make me more for people that are both on the same page in terms of having extra partners outside of the marriage. The balance here is currently tipped in her favor, but not sure how long that will last.

 

I suspect either:

1.the husband's patience with the open arrangement will run out and he will divorce her

2.she will fall for a man and want to leave her husband for him (though if she is seeing someone that knows she is married, this might get sticky)

3.she might be happy with the freedom and choose to divorce

4.hooking up with other men that only want her for her body will make her feel empty along with the resentment built up from her husbands reluctant agreement to this open marriage

5.husband might try to have sex someone else (might as well since the wife is), get to know her and leave his wife

 

And the least likely:

6. they will continue the arrangement and somehow it will work out for them

 

 

Agreed, don't think this will work in the long term, but who knows. Stranger things have happened.

[Veronica73]

It’s a complicated situation to be sure. I hope that it works out for the OP. It sounds like her husband is either asexual or gay, but wants to be married to her. And it sounds like there are a lot of good things about their marriage and that they have a child.

 

I can totally understand why someone would want to stay married to someone who wouldn’t have sex with him/her IF they have a child and if they are good friends and have a good life together besides the lack of sex. I know sex is important, but so is being in your kids’ lives. Making the choice to only be with your children 50% of the time would be devastating to many people, especially if sex was the one main problem.

 

I hope it works out for you RG!

[HiCrunchy]

It’s a complicated situation to be sure. I hope that it works out for the OP. It sounds like her husband is either asexual or gay, but wants to be married to her. And it sounds like there are a lot of good things about their marriage and that they have a child.

 

I can totally understand why someone would want to stay married to someone who wouldn’t have sex with him/her IF they have a child and if they are good friends and have a good life together besides the lack of sex. I know sex is important, but so is being in your kids’ lives. Making the choice to only be with your children 50% of the time would be devastating to many people, especially if sex was the one main problem.

 

I hope it works out for you RG!

 

Yes, I believe in OPs case her children are college aged so the parenting isn't going to be as involved as having small children (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong here). But I think she and her husband don't want to live with what ever consequences divorce might have (being a single parent, co-parenting, how others see you as a divorcee etc)..

 

I truly believe it is better to have happy divorced parents over miserable married parents. Having your children in the second environment isn't healthy if there is constant tension.

[HiCrunchy]

I told him he could and he said he wasn't interested.

 

He said he was just doing this to make me happy and to not bring it home.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't care.

 

Hey OP, are you still in love with your husband?

Edited July 1, 2018 by HiCrunchy

[Veronica73]

Yes, I believe in OPs case her children are college aged so the parenting isn't going to be as involved as having small children (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong here). But I think she and her husband don't want to live with what ever consequences divorce might have (being a single parent, co-parenting, how others see you as a divorcee etc)..

 

I truly believe it is better to have happy divorced parents over miserable married parents. Having your children in the second environment isn't healthy if there is constant tension.

 

Oh, I didn’t realize he/she/they were college-aged.

 

(Edit) but even so... I’ve heard of other couples (and even other cultures where it isn’t uncommon) where a “don’t ask don’t tell” policy works for them. It wouldn’t work for me... but if it does for them... more power to them.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Veronica73

[AlwaysGrowing]

OP,

 

I hope you make a boundary list for yourself.

A list to make yourself more safe in regard to sexual health and to minimize putting yourself and family in a toxic situation.

 

At the top of the list should be no married men. In other words full consent all around. By ruling out married men entirely you eliminate hurting innocent spouses.

 

Again a sex therapists can aid you in formulating set boundaries, so that you dont engage the sex surrogates haphazardly and ensure as much control as possible for you.

[RoseGold18]

Yes, I believe in OPs case her children are college aged so the parenting isn't going to be as involved as having small children (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong here). But I think she and her husband don't want to live with what ever consequences divorce might have (being a single parent, co-parenting, how others see you as a divorcee etc)..

 

I truly believe it is better to have happy divorced parents over miserable married parents. Having your children in the second environment isn't healthy if there is constant tension.

 

Son is 3 years old.

[HiCrunchy]

Son is 3 years old.

 

Ah I see. Either way, I still stand by the original message in my post.

Good luck OP

[RoseGold18]

Hey OP, are you still in love with your husband?

 

I would say no.

 

I even tried to come up with other suggestions to my husband and it just causes us to fight. So f it. I'll mess around with other guys.

 

I suggested that I teach him and he just goes on and on about how I don't think he will change blah blah blah.

[HiCrunchy]

I would say no.

 

I even tried to come up with other suggestions to my husband and it just causes us to fight. So f it. I'll mess around with other guys.

 

I suggested that I teach him and he just goes on and on about how I don't think he will change blah blah blah.

 

If you do not love ur husband anymore and you aren't getting your needs met, wouldn't it be better to find your self a man that you are crazy about AND can meet your needs?

 

Why cheat or have your husband to be in an open relationship that he clearly doesn't want?

 

I think the healthier thing to do would be to find partners that work better for each of you. You aren't compatible.

 

Yes divorce is scary, but do you think this open relationship is going to be the best solution?

 

I think its a band-aid on deep wound. The problems are going to pop up again. What happens when he takes back the open relationship idea? He has agreed in the past and taken it back, so what makes you think this won't happen again. What happens when you fight more, because he is so heartbroken you are having sex with other people?

 

One can only take so much hurt until they break apart. And believe me, your husband is hurting immensely everyday knowing you are going to be sleeping with other men. His Wife. The woman he vowed to love and cherish until death. His partner in life. I assure you he is completely in love with you to allow himself to suffer with such heart break just so that you will stay with him. Just so that YOU can be happy.

 

Don't you think that the kindest thing for you to do is divorce him and let him find a woman that can match his low drive and give him the exclusivity he wants? And wouldn't it be better for you to find the right man that can take care of your sexual needs. Or even a man that you can love! Or just have the freedom to hookup with random guys as you like. It doesn't matter.

 

Isn't that something you think about??

Edited July 1, 2018 by HiCrunchy

[RoseGold18]

If you do not love ur husband anymore and you aren't getting your needs met, wouldn't it be better to find your self a man that you are crazy about AND can meet your needs?

 

Why cheat or have your husband to be in an open relationship that he clearly doesn't want?

 

I think the healthier thing to do would be to find partners that work better for each of you. You aren't compatible.

 

Yes divorce is scary, but do you think this open relationship is going to be the best solution?

 

I think its a band-aid on deep wound. The problems are going to pop up again. What happens when he takes back the open relationship idea? He has agreed in the past and taken it back, so what makes you think this won't happen again. What happens when you fight more, because he is so heartbroken you are having sex with other people?

 

One can only take so much hurt until they break apart. And believe me, your husband is hurting immensely everyday knowing you are going to be sleeping with other men. His Wife. The woman he vowed to love and cherish until death. His partner in life. I assure you he is completely in love with you to allow himself to suffer with such heart break just so that you will stay with him. Just so that YOU can be happy.

 

Don't you think that the kindest thing for you to do is divorce him and let him find a woman that can match his low drive and give him the exclusivity he wants? And wouldn't it be better for you to find the right man that can take care of your sexual needs. Or even a man that you can love! Or just have the freedom to hookup with random guys as you like. It doesn't matter.

 

Isn't that something you think about??

 

He claims he is "in love" with me and his suggestion was to divorce but still live together because of finances and our son.

 

You see I don't think he loves me. I think he doesn't want to split his time with our son. That's what is boils down to.

[MidnightBlue1980]

He claims he is "in love" with me and his suggestion was to divorce but still live together because of finances and our son.

 

You see I don't think he loves me. I think he doesn't want to split his time with our son. That's what is boils down to.

 

Hi Rose. I read your whole thread. BTW, I always love Blues' responses.

 

First of all, I agree with one of the posters who said that the xMM was not in an open marriage and someone else said it was probably a friend's apartment. As for why he did not sleep with you, to me it shows he is pretty experienced with this and wanted to have fun with another woman but knows that actual sex bonds you to him and of course there is pregnancy and disease. Otherwise as Blues says, most men would have gotten carried away and done the deed, condom or no condom. I think you were dealing with a professional there. He did not want you turning up in his real life.

 

On that note, it would be a terrible idea to contact him on FB as he would know your real identity and yes, of course you would look crazy, which would freak him out. Not that I don't understand your fixation of course, no one likes rejection and for those of us who have had affairs, we get it.

 

But I'm not a fan of this open marriage idea for you. If you think this is rejection, wait till you have an actual affair and the guy throws you under the bus. You can waste years of your life on guys like that. And since you are married, you will not attract anyone decent, only guys looking to use you. Or judging from the random posts here, you may meet a nice single guy who will waste years of his life, you will be confused, it will just be a mess.

 

I think your husband actually presented the best idea. He offered a divorce and you can stay living together. Of course I would not do that forever, just till you get your finances together. Knowing that you are divorced and in the process of separating assets and childcare, you will be in a better position to meet a decent guy and get on with your life.

 

35 is not old, I did not even get married till I was 34. You still have time to meet someone new, maybe even have another baby if you wanted. And your son is so little. My kids have many friends with parents who are divorced. It is really not the big deal it was when we were little. Times have changes. Kids are more resilient than you think.

[HiCrunchy]

I

You see I don't think he loves me. I think he doesn't want to split his time with our son. That's what is boils down to.

 

Why dont u think he is in love with u? Having a low drive doesnt mean he doesnt love you.

 

Staying in a marriage because of the kids never works. Both of u will be miserable.

 

There are plenty of couples that can co-parent extremely well. If ur both not in love the split will should be pretty admissible after a divorce.

 

My parents dont love each other in the romantic sense and have seem married 20 plus years. In my experience, I wish they would have divorced.

Edited July 1, 2018 by HiCrunchy

[FMW]

I think the robust (to put it nicely) disagreements posted here just proves that people have different drives for, and therefore views of, sex and so it is VERY important that two people who want to have a happy relationship be compatible in this area.

 

A low drive person is never going to understand the importance of sex to a high drive person and will think they have their priorities wrong and anyone trying to explain why it's important is just "bragging".

 

I was in a sexless marriage (xH wasn't low drive just not compatible in other ways that led him to shut me out and seek sex elsewhere) and I know from years of experience that what Blues is saying is true. Having your spouse reject you in that way is psychologically and emotionally damaging. And then following that with being with someone who really wants you is a huge thing. Believe me.

 

OP, I hope this works for you. Personally, it wouldn't work for me. The sex is important to me, in part, because it makes me feel close and bonded to my partner. I can get myself off just fine if that's all I need, but I want the shared experience to make me feel connected. From your post I think you might find yourself the same, and will attach to these other men even if you don't want to.

[BaileyB]

OP, I hope this works for you. Personally, it wouldn't work for me. The sex is important to me, in part, because it makes me feel close and bonded to my partner. I can get myself off just fine if that's all I need, but I want the shared experience to make me feel connected. From your post I think you might find yourself the same, and will attach to these other men even if you don't want to.

 

^^^ This is why I think this arrangement won't work for you OP. You are so starved for attention and affection, that you will attach to the first man who comes along and offers you anything at all... It won't be possible for you to stay in your marriage if/when this happens. In a way, it's just delaying the inevitable.

[RoseGold18]

Hi Rose. I read your whole thread. BTW, I always love Blues' responses.

 

First of all, I agree with one of the posters who said that the xMM was not in an open marriage and someone else said it was probably a friend's apartment. As for why he did not sleep with you, to me it shows he is pretty experienced with this and wanted to have fun with another woman but knows that actual sex bonds you to him and of course there is pregnancy and disease. Otherwise as Blues says, most men would have gotten carried away and done the deed, condom or no condom. I think you were dealing with a professional there. He did not want you turning up in his real life.

 

On that note, it would be a terrible idea to contact him on FB as he would know your real identity and yes, of course you would look crazy, which would freak him out. Not that I don't understand your fixation of course, no one likes rejection and for those of us who have had affairs, we get it.

 

But I'm not a fan of this open marriage idea for you. If you think this is rejection, wait till you have an actual affair and the guy throws you under the bus. You can waste years of your life on guys like that. And since you are married, you will not attract anyone decent, only guys looking to use you. Or judging from the random posts here, you may meet a nice single guy who will waste years of his life, you will be confused, it will just be a mess.

 

I think your husband actually presented the best idea. He offered a divorce and you can stay living together. Of course I would not do that forever, just till you get your finances together. Knowing that you are divorced and in the process of separating assets and childcare, you will be in a better position to meet a decent guy and get on with your life.

 

35 is not old, I did not even get married till I was 34. You still have time to meet someone new, maybe even have another baby if you wanted. And your son is so little. My kids have many friends with parents who are divorced. It is really not the big deal it was when we were little. Times have changes. Kids are more resilient than you think.

 

Thank you for this response.

 

About the OM - I agree that it seemed like to me that he wasn't in an open marriage. He told me that him and his wife hadn't had sex in 4 years but that they were good friends and had a fine relationship otherwise... even said they still sleep in the same bed.

 

He said that he needs to keep it a secret because of their friends. That most people don't understand the whole open marriage thing and that him and his wife didn't bring the other people around. He told me the reason was because him and his wife had very different styles in bed. His wife apparently liked more of the s&m scene and he just liked regular sex.

 

When I was at his apartment it seemed like it was his. I told him how strange I thought it was that he still goes back home to live with his wife even though they had this open marriage agreement and they don't have sex. I made a comment that if I had a place like that I would just stay there. That could explain why he didn't have sex with me he just wanted a blow job.

 

Not that I expected us to run away together and leave our spouses but we had so many things in common for being complete strangers in a very populated big state. Both of our dads were stationed at the same military base and that's what brought us here. I will add that it's uncommon in this area because that military base has been closed for over 20 years.

 

We both went to high school in the same school district, right down the street of each other (we met in a different city). My brother actually went to his high school.

 

We started talking about my brother who is in the independent film industry and ding ding ding this guy also is in the film industry and that is why they have over 30 mutual friends. I was able to find his full name because I know his high school and what year he graduated. It was easy to find with just his first name. That's how I know that my brother and him have so many friends in common. His apartment is also literally down the street from an apartment that I used to own. Within a 2 minute walk.

 

After more snooping it appears to me that his wife is actually the breadwinner and she is not a citizen. That part is true. She is from Canada. He met her online. I'm guessing he relies on her financially and doesn't want to let that go. And she relies on him for a citizenship.

 

This guy told me he has his own businesses in real estate, pot industry and something else that I can't remember. After some google snooping I believe that this guy is a promoter for independent films or venues so that explains his connection with people in the film industry.

 

I don't believe that brings in a ton of money considering we're not in California. I am guessing he isn't as well off as he led on and that just makes him a liar overall.

 

I know I shouldn't be so hung up on a guy that I only talked to for a total of 5 hours but I had so much pleasure the one time that we hooked up that I thought it was a dream come true to find something so convenient.

 

About my husband. This set up isn't like me and I probably won't enjoy it. I am going to try to talk my husband into marriage counseling again and see if we can still work things out. If he would just have sex with me once a week I would be happy enough with that.

Edited July 1, 2018 by RoseGold18

[bigman1]

So, thinking out the box here. Do computer key logger to see if your H has a porn addiction. He may be getting off regularly and thus not having sex with you. I also recommend a psychosexual evaluation for him. Look it up. Often used in criminal cases to see if dude is a pedo, but it has more value than that. MC is useless given what you quote your husband as saying. Get his hormone level tested too. Gotta rule out medical issues and mental issues.

 

If all is fine, then it is time for someone to do the responsible thing and move to dissolve this union, get kids counseling, etc. Right now, your kids are affected by this mess.

 

Move to solve the problem or end the problem.

[pepperbird]

op,

From what you say, your husband's lack of interest in sex is just part of who he is, part of who he is as a sexual being. It's nothing new,so suggesting he take medication, see a therapist or considering him to be broken in some way is akin to saying that someone who is gay should be medicated, get therapy or is broken.

 

 

At best, you and he aren't compatible, and if you can not , with 100 percent certainty, say that you won't cheat again you have no business being married to him while you hide outside relationship(s).

 

 

 

Being married means that you have formed a partnership, and that comes with the responsibility of being honest with one another.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Thank you for this response.

 

About the OM - I agree that it seemed like to me that he wasn't in an open marriage. He told me that him and his wife hadn't had sex in 4 years but that they were good friends and had a fine relationship otherwise... even said they still sleep in the same bed.

 

He said that he needs to keep it a secret because of their friends. That most people don't understand the whole open marriage thing and that him and his wife didn't bring the other people around. He told me the reason was because him and his wife had very different styles in bed. His wife apparently liked more of the s&m scene and he just liked regular sex.

 

When I was at his apartment it seemed like it was his. I told him how strange I thought it was that he still goes back home to live with his wife even though they had this open marriage agreement and they don't have sex. I made a comment that if I had a place like that I would just stay there. That could explain why he didn't have sex with me he just wanted a blow job.

 

Not that I expected us to run away together and leave our spouses but we had so many things in common for being complete strangers in a very populated big state. Both of our dads were stationed at the same military base and that's what brought us here. I will add that it's uncommon in this area because that military base has been closed for over 20 years.

 

We both went to high school in the same school district, right down the street of each other (we met in a different city). My brother actually went to his high school.

 

We started talking about my brother who is in the independent film industry and ding ding ding this guy also is in the film industry and that is why they have over 30 mutual friends. I was able to find his full name because I know his high school and what year he graduated. It was easy to find with just his first name. That's how I know that my brother and him have so many friends in common. His apartment is also literally down the street from an apartment that I used to own. Within a 2 minute walk.

 

After more snooping it appears to me that his wife is actually the breadwinner and she is not a citizen. That part is true. She is from Canada. He met her online. I'm guessing he relies on her financially and doesn't want to let that go. And she relies on him for a citizenship.

 

This guy told me he has his own businesses in real estate, pot industry and something else that I can't remember. After some google snooping I believe that this guy is a promoter for independent films or venues so that explains his connection with people in the film industry.

 

I don't believe that brings in a ton of money considering we're not in California. I am guessing he isn't as well off as he led on and that just makes him a liar overall.

 

I know I shouldn't be so hung up on a guy that I only talked to for a total of 5 hours but I had so much pleasure the one time that we hooked up that I thought it was a dream come true to find something so convenient.

 

About my husband. This set up isn't like me and I probably won't enjoy it. I am going to try to talk my husband into marriage counseling again and see if we can still work things out. If he would just have sex with me once a week I would be happy enough with that.

 

Well. I doubt they sleep in the same bed without having sex. Since you found him on FB and some of his story is true, who knows, it may mostly be true. I still stand by my original thought that your desire for a connection came across loud and clear and he didn't want that. He probably wanted someone equally shallow and just looking for fun and not complications. You are new to this scene so you do not know how attached you get after sleeping with someone. People spend years and years pining for a guy, hooked on the chemicals from sex bonding. This guy is aware of that and aware that you are not - so he knows you would get stuck on him. Consider it that he did you a favor and count your blessings. Your fixation now is nothing compared with a real affair fixation. Trust me.

 

As for your husband, he is hiding something and no counseling will fix that. I had an A and the guy went with his wife for MC for a year to trick her into believing he was working on saving the marriage. Men use MC to fool the wife into complacency. This was after our A was over but I was fixated on him, much as you are now, but 1000x more. He actually wrote that he was doing the MC to calm her and he was out looking for other woman at the same time.

 

In my case, the xmm did withdraw sexually from his wife for a few years and used sex as a tool, because he had a lot of hatred and anger towards her, over money and just choices in life. Women do that too. He never told her though, so she still does not know. Or some men are gay and unwilling to disclose it because of course you would get divorced and he does not want to openly live that lifestyle. Or maybe it's another woman. It could be anything. It's up to you how much time and energy you want to invest figuring it out. I guess it depends on how much you love him and want to save the marriage.

[Mr. Lucky]

About the OM - I agree that it seemed like to me that he wasn't in an open marriage. He told me that him and his wife hadn't had sex in 4 years but that they were good friends and had a fine relationship otherwise... even said they still sleep in the same bed.

 

He said that he needs to keep it a secret because of their friends. That most people don't understand the whole open marriage thing and that him and his wife didn't bring the other people around. He told me the reason was because him and his wife had very different styles in bed. His wife apparently liked more of the s&m scene and he just liked regular sex.

 

When I had all the chaos and craziness of a failing marriage, the last thing I wanted to do was put myself in the middle of someone else's drama. And for the exact reasons you're discovering.

 

RoseGold18, plenty on your plate at home. Seems as though you'd want to address that before venturing further down the rabbit hole...

 

Mr. Lucky

[bathtub-row]

Had a conversation with my husband regarding our options.

 

Shockingly.... he AGREED to an open marriage folks.

 

So there you have it. I have permission to do as I please.

 

That's probably because he's been cheating on you all along.

[DKT3]

That's probably because he's been cheating on you all along.

 

This is what I'm thinking or he doesn't find her attractive anymore maybe a combination. In my opinion, when men lose the sex drive with a partner it's a few causes,

1. Low testosterone

2. Other women (men)

3 resentment/hatred

4 loss of attraction

 

Its shallow, but true that men are virtually stimulated, and weight gain or loss can affect attraction.

 

Porn addiction doesn't really affect sex drive but it does affect the ability to hold an erection without the visual stimulation.