Ladies has #metoo made it tougher to date?

[hotpotato]

I had a man ask me out twice, and he said he wouldn't ask me again for fear of seeming like a stalker. I don't know if that's related to metoo or not. I've heard stories of guys asking out women 5,6 times before getting a yes.

 

What kind of advice are you talking about hotpotato?

 

I keep reading on LS about women using the #metoo label when being asked out. However in the feminist circles in which I travel, I've not heard it used once. (For the record, you'd never find me hanging out in circles with women who hate men) That's not to say that nobody has ever made that accusation, but I don't believe it's the scourge which it's being painted as. There are a small number of both misogynists and misandrists who speak absolute rubbish. It's foolish to actually listen to such a small number of people. I have an unfailing belief that commonsense will prevail over the lunatic fringe.

 

Advice that more or less means "no means yes." Basically women are coy and a man may have to take sex.

[anduina]

Cool. Maybe the movement is working for the best.

The movement doesn't affect the good guys.

[guest569]

Oh it has to have made it much easier. Society has changed for the better in the past couple of decades.

[guest569]

A bunch of women kept this thread on topic, and suddenly a bunch of men are complaining that they can't get a fair shake because they aren't good-looking enough.

 

Yes, this happens constantly here, workplace, everywhere.. women still have less power and silenced voices and get put in their place. Hence feminism still has a way to go.

[PRW]

Repost the same question to guys and compare the results.

 

I am a guy. My response would be that it has caused me to ask out less women and to be slower in the ones I do ask out. I pay much more attention to their attitudes, political overtones in their conversations, and just how they generally present themselves. So the movement has caused me to "raise the bar" and to scrutinized them more before approaching. A man's greatest fear in this area are false/irrational accusations that can destroy their lives.

[dateme]

Repost the same question to guys and compare the results.

 

I am a guy. My response would be that it has caused me to ask out less women and to be slower in the ones I do ask out. I pay much more attention to their attitudes, political overtones in their conversations, and just how they generally present themselves. So the movement has caused me to "raise the bar" and to scrutinized them more before approaching. A man's greatest fear in this area are false/irrational accusations that can destroy their lives.

 

Good point. If we approach women it has to be worth it. So women you can't just be average.

[Veronica73]

This thread is hilarious (in a very sad way). In the thread TITLE it is asking women if it has made dating harder, and it seems pretty much all of us (ladies) have said no, it hasn’t. But yet the thread still seems to be about men and their opinions on how it has affected them. Get an effing clue. I want to bang my head against the wall with the complete cluelessness.

[guest569]

This thread is hilarious (in a very sad way). In the thread TITLE it is asking women if it has made dating harder, and it seems pretty much all of us (ladies) have said no, it hasn’t. But yet the thread still seems to be about men and their opinions on how it has affected them. Get an effing clue. I want to bang my head against the wall with the complete cluelessness.

 

I know right?

 

There are people, men and women, calling out sexual abuse, violence and harassment and here are these men whining that it's harder for them to date. While the women say its easier because rape and harassment are becoming less ignored and sexism is slowly diminishing. I would say not because of this movement but it sure contributes.

[PRW]

This thread is hilarious (in a very sad way). In the thread TITLE it is asking women if it has made dating harder, and it seems pretty much all of us (ladies) have said no, it hasn’t. But yet the thread still seems to be about men and their opinions on how it has affected them. Get an effing clue. I want to bang my head against the wall with the complete cluelessness.

 

 

I'm not clueless, nor whining.

My subtle or not so subtle point is that it has made it harder for women even if they don't realize that it has in fact done so. Men, at least what I think of as the quality ones, are now more picky and skeptical of you.

 

 

"MeToo" has not made it harder for me to date, but it has narrowed the pool because there are more women that I wouldn't trust to date. It's isn't the valid claims against men we worry about, it is the false accusations from women who want to get on the bandwagon and destroy men's lives with crazy accusations. It doesn't really matter if you agree with me or not,...you can not make good men ask you out against their will,...and they aren't going to ask you out if they don't feel they can trust you,...and the MeToo thing has most certainly damaged that trust. The whole MGTOW movement was born and exists due to this distrust.

 

 

So the original question was asked of women and most claimed they are unaffected. That tells me that the women either have a low state of awareness or they are just in denial. The truth is clearly different than what their personal perceptions are. Perhaps that is the real story that the question reveals.

Edited August 17, 2018 by PRW

[somanymistakes]

"Women don't really know what they want. They're in denial."

 

This is, again, the exact sort of attitude that leads to jerks groping women because "she definitely wants it really!" and then getting accused of sexual harassment, which they brush off as "false" because obviously a woman saying she doesn't want something doesn't mean anything...

 

-

 

You think that you are approaching fewer women because you are "forced" to be more careful, and that therefore women must be having trouble. They say that they are not having trouble. You conclude that they are lying.

 

Have you considered the idea that those women you decide not to approach did not want to be approached?

 

If you are carefully choosing the women to approach who you think will be more receptive to your approaches - GOOD! THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO! Approach the people who WANT you to approach them! Stay away from the ones who don't!

 

This is not rocket science.

[somanymistakes]

I mean, do you really think that the "quality" men are the ones who were previously hitting on women indiscriminately, including those who did not want to be hit on? That doesn't sound very quality to me.

 

Your logic appears to be:

 

"Players are hitting on fewer women. Women say they are happy with this situation. Since I believe that all women want to be hit on by players as often as possible, the women must be lying."

 

Actual sane logic would be:

 

"Players are hitting on fewer women. Women say they are happy with this situation. Therefore, it follows that women are happy to be hit on by fewer players."

 

The real story being revealed is that some people absolutely refuse to believe women.

[Shining One]

"Women don't really know what they want. They're in denial."

Who are you quoting here? I searched the thread but could not find these words except in your post.

[Shining One]

Men, at least what I think of as the quality ones, are now more picky and skeptical of you.

So the original question was asked of women and most claimed they are unaffected. That tells me that the women either have a low state of awareness or they are just in denial. The truth is clearly different than what their personal perceptions are. Perhaps that is the real story that the question reveals.

I would expect that most women won't notice any difference. A woman who previously got 10 cold approaches / 100 OLD messages a week now only gets 8 cold approaches / 80 OLD messages. Is her dating life noticeably different? Probably not. It's possibly making her dating life easier with less men to filter out.

 

On the other end of the spectrum, you have the women who previously received 1 cold approach / 10 OLD messages a month. Now, they get 0 cold approaches / 4 OLD messages a month. It's probable that their dating lives are more difficult than before.

 

I searched for any studies or statistics about initial messages sent out by men on OLD after #MeToo started, but haven't been able to find any. If anyone has any they can link to, it would be appreciated. All of the numbers in my post are artificial and only used to illustrate my points.

[No_Go]

Thankfully not dating anymore, but yes, MeToo vastly complicated things for me and females similar to me.

 

I'll explain why: I'm introverted and do NOT like giving visible signs of flirting. Tossing hairs, prolonged eye contact etc is just not happening. I don't go out at night clubs and never drink. Also, I rarely if ever accepted first date invite on first time or second time. Basically only the alpha assertive approach of guys has worked fro me in my entire life.

 

My BF and I met at work - it took 2 months of almost daily hangouts for him to escalate to a kiss. Then I asked him why he was so slow to initiate: answer - because he was not sure was I interested?!?! For context: I was horny to no end, had multiple sexual dreams with him etc. Well, because i didn't make it very explicit, he wasn't sure and was afraid of losing his job. By lucky circumstances I found another job around the same time, otherwise we would have passed by each other. SO basically MeToo would have ruined our potential as a couple. Or not MeToo but the debilitating fear it creates in men....

[basil67]

Who are you quoting here? I searched the thread but could not find these words except in your post.

 

Just a thought....there's been a few posts deleted from this thread. It's very likely this response is connected to something which was deleted after she responded.

[JuneL]

But didn’t your case show that MeToo improved your dating? In the past, you would have been pestered by those super aggressive guys into dating them partly against your will; your current boyfriend, who was extremely patient and really cared about how you felt, wouldn’t have a chance.

 

Thankfully not dating anymore, but yes, MeToo vastly complicated things for me and females similar to me.

 

I'll explain why: I'm introverted and do NOT like giving visible signs of flirting. Tossing hairs, prolonged eye contact etc is just not happening. I don't go out at night clubs and never drink. Also, I rarely if ever accepted first date invite on first time or second time. Basically only the alpha assertive approach of guys has worked fro me in my entire life.

 

My BF and I met at work - it took 2 months of almost daily hangouts for him to escalate to a kiss. Then I asked him why he was so slow to initiate: answer - because he was not sure was I interested?!?! For context: I was horny to no end, had multiple sexual dreams with him etc. Well, because i didn't make it very explicit, he wasn't sure and was afraid of losing his job. By lucky circumstances I found another job around the same time, otherwise we would have passed by each other. SO basically MeToo would have ruined our potential as a couple. Or not MeToo but the debilitating fear it creates in men....

[No_Go]

Good point one can look at it that way. My very first bf was ... well, by current standards it would have passed as sexual assault.. but it's a whole long story.

 

All I was saying is the current advice - ask woman once max twice and leave her alone for me would have resulted in staying virgin indefinitely LOL...

 

 

But didn’t your case show that MeToo improved your dating? In the past, you would have been pestered by those super aggressive guys into dating them partly against your will; your current boyfriend, who was extremely patient and really cared about how you felt, wouldn’t have a chance.

[basil67]

Good point one can look at it that way. My very first bf was ... well, by current standards it would have passed as sexual assault.. but it's a whole long story.

 

All I was saying is the current advice - ask woman once max twice and leave her alone for me would have resulted in staying virgin indefinitely LOL...

 

The advice I see post #metoo is to not harass a woman. In the situation with your guy, he was very respectful, slow and cautious because he could not read your signs...and at no point had you told him that you were not interested. This is the exact opposite of harassment.

[guest569]

The advice I see post #metoo is to not harass a woman. In the situation with your guy, he was very respectful, slow and cautious because he could not read your signs...and at no point had you told him that you were not interested. This is the exact opposite of harassment.

 

Yes I think that workplace romance adds some complexity regardless pre or post #metoo. I got a new job once and very quickly a couple of the guys from my old workplace asked me out. That is way before #metoo. I'm glad they didn't make a move while we worked together. I rejected them both anyway.

[PRW]

"Women don't really know what they want. They're in denial."

 

This is, again, the exact sort of attitude that leads to jerks groping women because "she definitely wants it really!"

 

There is an attitude that leads to that,...but this isn't it. You are severely mischaracterizng my comments and the meaning behind them.

 

This whole subject would actually be one of the things I would be listening for when I meet a woman in a public setting. I wouldn't bring that subject up but would closely listen to their interaction with others if the subject came up. If they came across like No_Go I would consider asking them out, but if they came across as others who are debating here then I probably would not because I would sense somewhat of an antagonizing stance from them and would be afraid of that becoming vindictiveness if they somehow thought I crossed them,..and then the risk of false accusations rises.

 

In any case the way this thread has gone, particularly in how it has pitted the women against the men show with absolute certainty that the MeToo situation has negatively effected the dating environment, even if some women don't want to see that.

 

 

I mentioned earlier that this should also be posted as a question to MEN in another thread to get their view point. I think it should be. If no one does, maybe I will. Then let the women join the discussion in response to the men's answers, as men have done with the women's answers here. There are two side to every story.

Edited August 20, 2018 by PRW

[No_Go]

The advice I see post #metoo is to not harass a woman. In the situation with your guy, he was very respectful, slow and cautious because he could not read your signs...and at no point had you told him that you were not interested. This is the exact opposite of harassment.

 

Well that’s a great assessment. I guess I was just too impatient or more precisely unable to express my lack of patience with outward signs:)

[guest569]

Rape and abuse and harassment are no longer something that women (primarily) have to accept as a fact of life as a woman. Sex is no longer a wife's duty, its something that women can be active and enthusiastic participants in, or refuse. Women are increasingly being considered human beings, not sexual objects to be gawked at, groped and spanked by strangers. Yeah, dating is becoming easier.

[losangelena]

This whole subject would actually be one of the things I would be listening for when I meet a woman in a public setting. I wouldn't bring that subject up but would closely listen to their interaction with others if the subject came up. If they came across like No_Go I would consider asking them out, but if they came across as others who are debating here then I probably would not because I would sense somewhat of an antagonizing stance from them and would be afraid of that becoming vindictiveness if they somehow thought I crossed them,..and then the risk of false accusations rises.

 

Hear that, No_Go? You will the prize!

[basil67]

I would consider asking them out, but if they came across as others who are debating here then I probably would not because I would sense somewhat of an antagonizing stance from them and would be afraid of that becoming vindictiveness

 

Ah, the irony of a guy who's debating #metoo (while dismissing women as not being aware of the truth of the matter) not wanting to date a woman who's debating #metoo.

 

I can confidently assure you that the feeling would go both ways. I suspect women would much prefer the type of guy who's over on the men's #metoo thread who's telling us they are not finding an issue with dating. Out of curiosity, are you also going to tell the men that they are wrong?

[PRW]

Ah, the irony of a guy who's debating #metoo (while dismissing women as not being aware of the truth of the matter) not wanting to date a woman who's debating #metoo.

 

 

Mischaracterizing my point and position.