Don't Want a Big Wedding

[Els]

 

We just want to know that the pregnancy is near the end and our girl is well in the way;

 

 

I really don't understand this. So if (touch wood) anything happens to the pregnancy, you will... call everything off and not marry him? Does he know this, and if so, how does he feel about it?

[Leigh 87]

I really don't understand this. So if (touch wood) anything happens to the pregnancy, you will... call everything off and not marry him? Does he know this, and if so, how does he feel about it?

 

Oh it's not that I don't want to marry him if we can't have kids.

 

The truth is, if I am unable to have my own baby, I will be angry, depressed, and it will just be so soul destroying that a lot of relationships don't survive pregnancy loss or involuntary childlessness.

 

I absolutely love him enough to want to be by his side for life,with or without kids.

 

I am just not sure how we would both deal with a pregnancy loss, that could then be followed with more tragedy and losses and ends up with me losing out on my dream of being a parent.

 

I don't feel love is always enough to sustain a marriage. Grief does funny things to people. People often grieve differently and this causes them to grow apart ... Without being able to have my own child for instance, I will need to find a totally new way to find joy in my life...I don't care about career or overseas travel for instance.... Yet, if my number one dream that I yearn for doesn't come true, I am going to have to have a lot of intensive therapy so that I can totally change my hopes and dreams that light me up and most resonate with me, and learn to find other dreams (basically, to force myself to find joy in simply living and maybe one day, feeling as strongly about career or travel as I did about wanting a family). It would be a long, hard road to essential force yourself to feel excited about career or other things, when they were always merely enjoyable pastimes that never mattered much. Just enjoyable ways to pass the days.. I would have to create a new way of thinking. I would need to try and change the mediocre feelings career and other life focuses give me, and learn to make myself feel excited about things that don't naturally excited me. When you deeply yearn to be a biological parent with a certain partner, it is going to be very very difficult to craft something else in life that you can look forward to and be excited about again.

 

I just don't want to enter into marriage after recently finding our a baby has died because I don't know if I would then be able to ever conceive or carry. And I am not sure our relationship would definitely survive grief that for me, would be extremely profound and life altering. I have no idea how we would both fact and whether or not we would be rendered I compatible. Moreover, i want it to be a happy occasion. And then, I want to ensure that fertility issues won't rip us apart. If you read about couples and infertility, you will find that a huge proportion of marriages don't make it. The grief is too intense and changes people.

 

I preferably want the one marriage, LOL..... I don't want a failed one, where there were potential struggles I could see yet chose to ignore.

 

Lastly, I am too anxious and caught up in worrying about whether my pregnancy will last and be successful to enjoy such a happy occasion. I will feel a lot less anxious either after I get a baby out of this, or I am well on my way to it!

Edited August 9, 2019 by Leigh 87

[NuevoYorko]

Lastly, I am too anxious and caught up in worrying about whether my pregnancy will last and be successful to enjoy such a happy occasion. I will feel a lot less anxious either after I get a baby out of this, or I am well on my way to it!

 

I hope your pregnancy progresses without a hitch and I am confident that it will.

 

Still, having all of this catastrophic thinking and external conditions surrounding the beginning of a marriage is very unhealthy.

 

Marriage is supposed to provide an anchor of support when hard times come.

 

People can't control when difficult events happen in life.

 

Generally children are planned for and born AFTER marriage. Clearly these married couples are confident enough in their relationships that they can face the unknowns of pregnancy, childbirth and child rearing together.

 

I hope you have this in your own marriage.

[Els]

I preferably want the one marriage, LOL..... I don't want a failed one, where there were potential struggles I could see yet chose to ignore.

 

 

There will always be struggles later in life though, especially if you do have children - raising them often adds a whole new level of stress and potential conflict. While infertility can break couples apart, so can children. And there's a whole host of other potential severe events that almost everyone goes through at any point in their life - losing a family member, becoming severely ill, etc.

 

 

 

It does worry me that you would knowingly have a child with him, despite not trusting that your relationship would be able to weather storms. It's not that you need to be married to have children - you don't (especially not in Australia), but there's a big difference IMO between not getting married because you just don't believe in marriage, and not getting married because you don't think you'll last.

 

 

 

I do hope that things will work out for you.

[Leigh 87]

There will always be struggles later in life though, especially if you do have children - raising them often adds a whole new level of stress and potential conflict. While infertility can break couples apart, so can children. And there's a whole host of other potential severe events that almost everyone goes through at any point in their life - losing a family member, becoming severely ill, etc.

 

 

 

It does worry me that you would knowingly have a child with him, despite not trusting that your relationship would be able to weather storms. It's not that you need to be married to have children - you don't (especially not in Australia), but there's a big difference IMO between not getting married because you just don't believe in marriage, and not getting married because you don't think you'll last.

 

 

 

I do hope that things will work out for you.

 

 

 

We have the right kind of feelings and we have staying power..

 

What I doubt is how I would respond to involuntary childlessness. This isn't like losing family to me. It's much worse to me personally... I would rather lose an older family member over missing out on an entire lifetime of having the joy of a child......to me nothing is worse than involuntary childlessness...for me, I am not speaking on behalf of others as we all react differently to different tragedies. We don't all react the same. . I believe it has the potential to change me a lot and I'm just not sure which direction I would go if for some tragic reason, I just couldn't manage to sustain a pregnancy.

 

I would also feel wracked with guilt. I would absolutely not want him to also miss out on what we both consider to be the most meaningful experience in life. I would want him to have the opportunity to have a child with someone else I think. I don't know how I would feel about sentencing someone I wholeheartedly love to a lifetime of Childlessness. Most people consider the joy of a child as the most special and enjoyable part of their lives after all. Only the childfree by choice crowd can find equal happiness and joy without kids seeing as they never yearned for them and are just cut from a different cloth to most people in regards to what provided then with the most fulfilment in life.

 

I don't think infertility and involuntary childlessness is in the same ball park as an older family member dying sorry; it is a LIFETIME of missing out on joy that you very much will will always innately yearn for.

 

I would personally NEVER get marry before children..I need to know that I CAN fulfil my innate need to be a mother first. If I couldn't then I would need to think long and hard about whether I felt comfortable depriving yet another person of the greatest joy in life. Not having children when you went them is a huge deal and I don't believe marriage first kids second is the right decision for everyone..The reality of involuntary Childlessness is a huge deal and isn't something I am willing to take a gamble on.... I prefer calculated risks, and would at least want to work through any grief or trauma surrounding any inability to have kids together BEFORE assuming the relationship could withstand it.

 

If you knew how many relationships and marriages end due to infertility and involuntary childlessness, you too would think twice about marriage before children as being the ideal....

 

Trust me. Waiting here is sensible. It would be wreckless knowing what I know, to just marry a guy before I first worked though any infertility or Childless reality I was faced with..

Edited August 22, 2019 by Leigh 87

[basil67]

With all due respect, if you knew how many marriage end due to having a special needs child....it's phenomal.

[Leigh 87]

With all due respect, if you knew how many marriage end due to having a special needs child....it's phenomal.

 

 

This is actually another reason why I want to hold out.... Because I definitely don't just assume a marriage can last with a disabled child. You really just don't know..not everyone is wrong enough as individuals let doing as a couple, who are able to grieve and lean on one another in a way that is compatible and doesn't cause a divide.

 

We just prefer to look at it practically. We may well have the right feelings and we definitely know we would stay together for the long run IF this baby lives and IF life goes to plan in terms of us getting one child together.

 

But who knows how we would handle having NO children. Or pregnancy loss (recurrent or even a one time thing ..). Or a special needs child. It's great to have the right feelings and to be compatible. We have also gotten through immense trials and hardships and come out much stronger.

 

We feel confident in our abilities to withstand tradegy. We have already got though more than most couples we know..most would have left by now due to setbacks we shared together.

 

But we are just more evidence based practice I people.. It isn't very romantic but we just want to actually KNOW for sure and actually LIVE out any potentially difficult situations FIRST--- when it comes to kids.... The love you have and the sense if loss when it doesn't work out is a different level of hard to what we have currently been faced with. We have overcome drug addiction, being poor with absolutely nothing sleeping on dirty mistress in the floor, having to move house every 5 months.....huge career issues, him starting a new career, me being supported entirely by him due to study..... We overcame severe mental health issues and have seen the very worst if each other.

 

Yet we are stronger than ever and very happy..we definitely have something special. Neither of us doubt a life together. We both want to grow old together and we both have a good feeling it's possible..

 

But infertility, Childlessness, pregnancy or infant loss, and or a child with a serious disability---. These are all things that makes us want to try the having children thing FIRST.

For instance, I would be fine with a special needs child. I am a disability support worker. But he would find it very challenging. How do we know they we would last ? Some events in life are beyond our depths. Why child or Childlessness related issue is huge and unlike any other challenge we got through.

 

We know we can handle parents dying or one of us getting injured. We have a very deep love thankfully. It is only the child related issues that leaves us questioning how we would both change as people and whether or not it could render us incompatible.

 

I wouldn't "worry" about this. I think we are being sensible and that more married people should have thought of all this prior to having kids. ... We are definitely well versed in overcoming adversity and coming out stronger as a couple. ........ But there are some things that we would rather face head in together BEFORE marrying and assuming things would be ok.

[Leigh 87]

With all due respect, if you knew how many marriage end due to having a special needs child....it's phenomal.

 

I can already see this as a huge factor in divorce. I am for instance totally fine with a disabled child. They are sweet and kind usually and still your children.

 

But my fiance isn't really okay with the notion of me birthing a disabled child..he would come around and manage fine, but it isn't something he is as welcoming of as I am. He would take it way harder than I would ...... Furthermore, I would want to try for another child soon after we I would like to try for a sibling, disabled or not but hoping the other child would not be (yet being prepared for two special needs). Where as my fiance I think would NOT want to try for more than one child if the first was severely disabled.

 

Just all this right here is an example of why we want to sort out the kid thing first. It's all well and good to have the right feelings for each other and know you would last when thighs were relatively good!

[basil67]

I can't believe you just described disabled kids as sweet and kind

 

They can also have behavioural issues which make living at home unsustainble. The parents with bruises, the walls kicked in. Poo smearing. Biting. Being thrown out of rented premises. Expulsion/suspension from school which means that the now single mum can't go to work. Very limited options for respite or supported independent living. Insufficient O/T, Speech, psych and behaviour support specialists. Parents who haven't had a night off in 15 years, let alone a full night's sleep. Kids who are suicidal. I work under the NDIS and this is the reality for a lot of families.

 

The best chance for kids is to have parents who are already committed. Not ones who will commit if the kids work out OK>.

[Leigh 87]

I would personally try and parent the child a few days a week and put them into care half the time. People need sleep. Even three hours of sleep per night is essential for humans to function. Humans can't be sleep at all for years at a time without actually dying.

 

I would have to make it work but I will be honest- it is such an awful life to lead (with a SEVERELY aggressive child, who smears their poo all over the house daily, tried to attack you constantly and is awake 24/7). That isn't living. It's hell. There is absolutely no joy in that it is akin to torture. I would and I know my fiance would - need to put a child like this onto a home with experienced carers at least three days a week. I do believe we accually have the same views on what would happen if we were unfortunate enough to parent a severely disabled child who tried to attack us every waking hour. Our approach would be very United in terms of managing the living arrangements as neither own of us would ever accept that life 7days a week. We would need to experience some joy and happiness occasionally and to us that would sadly mean that the disabled child with constant violence would have to receive a certain level of care at a facility.

 

So our management would be on par with each other's values and needs. That's one thing. Who knows how having such a miserable experience as a parent would impact our marriage ? There's no joy in parenting a child who tried to injure you every moment of your time together. You could both change as people and be rendered incompatible.

 

Why should we go onto it with blind faith that we will last forever in such a crappy situation? Isn't it being sensible to admit that we don't know whether our marriage could last forever when under such strain ?

 

Who really jnows if a couple can survive living in utter hell for the rest of their lives ??

 

I am not talking about all disabled children. Plenty of them do being joy and fulfillment among the suffering and aggression. But there are some children who have such severe behaviour that there truly is absolutely no joy in being beaten and injured every moment you spend together. There isn't always any joy in raising children and adults with extreme disabilities.

 

I don't think anyone can assume their marriage is going to withstand a life of hell, dread and despair with no joy at all. Who knows if you will stay together forever despite being dealt such an awful card in life ?

 

This again, is not a case of down syndrome or afflictions that aren't violent and constantly aggressive. I can absolutely see a lot of joy and light in raising a disabled child based on many I have known ! But they weren't violent and smearing poo on walls on a daily basis....... Who KNOWS if a marriage could sustain getting the worst of the worst in terms of disabilities?

 

Why is a marriage surviving such a miserable life a given ? Surely I am being sensible to want to wait and see when it comes to kids and all the hideous problems that can go wrong that ruins the quality of both parents lives ?

 

I feel it's sensible to wait and see. Despite all the love in the world, some relationships won't survive the most awful and extreme types of violent disabilities and it's healthier to admit that even the best most solid marriages don't always last rather than assume it's a given.

 

I only care for mild to moderate disabilities in children and adults. I honestly don't think there would be any quality of life to have to be physically attacked and have poo thrown at you every moment of the day for years with absolutely no respite. All I can say is ---. The fact my partner has a good job does make it seem salvageable but only because we could afford respite a few days a week.

 

When I say I don't like caring for a child with disabilities I should have clarified - a child with mild to moderate disabilities. The kids I care for. NOT the ones with needs so extreme that you have no quality of life. The kids I care for are kind and sweet and untainted by trivial crap. But I refuse to care for severely disabled as it it highly unpleasant, scary, dangerous, and it takes a special kind of person to accept a job of being attacked constantly. I am not ashamed to admit that I am not that special and know my limitations.

 

I don't feel it's a bad thing for parents to agree to place such cases of extreme violence in a proper group home with experts to give parents a break and at least that's one thing fiance and I agree on, as some parents aren't United in their values with regards to caring for the worst instances of disabilities.

[Leigh 87]

I can't believe you just described disabled kids as sweet and kind

 

They can also have behavioural issues which make living at home unsustainble. The parents with bruises, the walls kicked in. Poo smearing. Biting. Being thrown out of rented premises. Expulsion/suspension from school which means that the now single mum can't go to work. Very limited options for respite or supported independent living. Insufficient O/T, Speech, psych and behaviour support specialists. Parents who haven't had a night off in 15 years, let alone a full night's sleep. Kids who are suicidal. I work under the NDIS and this is the reality for a lot of families.

 

The best chance for kids is to have parents who are already committed. Not ones who will commit if the kids work out OK>.

 

And I personally feel we would become closer and stick together through such an experience.

 

Except it's not always a given and it feels silly to assume everything will work out given such awful life circumstances that no partner ever wants to be in.

 

Having a good feeling you will remain married is different from actually waiting and seeing how it goes.

 

We just prefer to wait and see first rather than place all our bets on a situation that really, NO ONE can be totally certain their marriage is strong enough to withstand.

 

Hence the kid thing comes first for us with marriage second. We are as committed as can be. But NO ONE really knows how their marriage would weather such awful hardships when it comes to their kids..... Having a child they needs24/7 care and attacks U every moment your together isn't something ANYONE can say for sure wouldn't break them and their marriages.

 

I would personally prefer to wait and see first. Not just assume the best when it comes to matters of the heart such as children. Children are best level in terms of love and feelings so before kids, how do any married couples know for sure how they would both react/ grow/ change in response to a major awful experience that involve your own kids who you love more than anything?

 

My parents are happily married 50 years... Hey almost divorced over me and disabilities my dad acquired and one income etc etc..... And trust me, their marriage was as solid as can ever be.....

[Leigh 87]

I am baffled and curious-- what is so wrong with admitting that you are not totally sure that your relationship could survive horrendous issues ? It doesn't mean we love each other less or lack commitment and drive.

 

I thought we were just being realistic that crap happens and no amount of true love can overcome everything.

 

For us, we know we can get through almost anything except we aren't parents yet so things going wrong in relation to kids is out of our depth of understanding at this stage.

 

I am curious why it's a bad sign that we would prefer to wait and see how we handle a child together first, seeing as so much pain can occur and so much can go wrong when it comes to the great love you have for a child.

 

50% of marriage end in divorce even without child related tragedy and heartaches. Why isn't it a great thing that we prefer to think thing through:lmao:

 

Marriage for us means forever. For life. So we just take it very seriously and true love alone just isn't enough for us to assume it'll be forever. Although we feel we could get through nearly everything, the child related area of life is still uncharted territory and one we need to figure out when that time comes..

[basil67]

I am baffled and curious-- what is so wrong with admitting that you are not totally sure that your relationship could survive horrendous issues ? It doesn't mean we love each other less or lack commitment and drive.

 

Personally, I wouldn't have kids in a situation where I wasn't confident of the resilience of the relationship. I just find it odd that you place a higher expectation of marriage than of staying together for a child. It's like you're saying that marriage is forever....but defacto with a child isn't necessarily forever.

Edited August 23, 2019 by basil67

[Leigh 87]

Personally, I wouldn't have kids in a situation where I wasn't confident of the resilience of the relationship. I just find it odd that you place a higher expectation of marriage than of staying together for a child. It's like you're saying that marriage is forever....but defacto with a child isn't necessarily forever.

 

 

Well that right for you. What's right for you isn't ideal for everyone else necessarily. We don't stand to benefit from waiting around anymore to have kids. We are 33 and for us, we would be far happier going for it at the ages that we want to have kids. Waiting any longer to try and figure out if our marriage could survive infertility or Childlessness is a moot point as no one can ever know until they actually face that particular challenge.

 

Our belief system is that no one can know whether a marriage can sustain those particular things. It's just what we believe it doesn't have to be what you believe.

 

 

We are as sure as we will ever be in any relationship. It doesn't get any more certain than this. Neither of us will meet anyone else or arrive at a stage where we feel any different regarding what our marriage can and can't survive... We just fundamentally don't know whether ANY marriage can survive certain issues. We wouldn't feel any different if we waited longer or picked new partners.

 

The thing is, our belief system dictates that you never have any way of knowing whether ANY marriage can survive infant loss, infertility, involuntary childlessness or a severely disabled child. It isn't that we aren't sure of each other as candidates for parenting. We are as sure as we each ever could be with anyone.

 

It isn't us. We wouldn't ever meet ayone else who would make us suddenly think " oh, our marriage would be infallible" There are some events that are just too hellish and terrible to know for sure how two individuals would both grieve and handle it.. you just can't know irrespective of having a rock solid relationship (or not) prior to marriage.

 

We have a fairly "good idea" that we could survive child related tragedy. We are just not 100% certain that all marriages survive infertility, Childlessness or a severely disabled child. Plenty of great, solid marriages crumble when the worse case scenarios occur..

 

Why is it a given that we should assume even the most solid of marriages can survive tragedy when it comes to children? Don't you think that couples who divorce over child related dramas also felt confident when they first for married ?

 

I know couples who were married for several years and overcame enormous adversities yet failed to survive when their children were both profoundly disabled. Why would you assume that their marriage started off on shaky grounds?

 

Did it ever occur to you that even solid, stable marriages that have lasted years and withstood some horrible things STILL manage to fail due to child related tragedy?

 

We are both a very secure and stable couple. We have weathered a lot of storms and got through it. But we aren't parents yet so how could we possible know yet how we would both respond to abject tragedy?

 

We obviously feel confident and excited about our abilities at parenting together. We aren't walking into having kids with absolutely no sense of whether we feel we would last..

 

We are confident we would be good parents together. We feel very confident and happy going into the pregnancy.

 

For us, this pregnancy happened exactly when we wanted it to and at the age and life stage we most dearly preferred. So everything has happened for us in the best possible way.

 

We just happen to want to test the relationship first and have it last before saying for sure it will be forever. And children is an arena neither of us are experienced in and therefore we will need to wait and see what happens. We are confident in thriving with a relatively healthy child. But seriously, who KNOWS how a marriage would weather a great tragedy?

[Leigh 87]

Personally, I wouldn't have kids in a situation where I wasn't confident of the resilience of the relationship. I just find it odd that you place a higher expectation of marriage than of staying together for a child. It's like you're saying that marriage is forever....but defacto with a child isn't necessarily forever.

 

 

Well that right for you. What's right for you isn't ideal for everyone else necessarily. We don't stand to benefit from waiting around anymore to have kids. We are 33 and for us, we would be far happier going for it at the ages that we want to have kids. Waiting any longer to try and figure out if our marriage could survive infertility or Childlessness is a moot point as no one can ever know until they actually face that particular challenge.

 

Our belief system is that no one can know whether a marriage can sustain those particular things. It's just what we believe it doesn't have to be what you believe.

 

 

We are as sure as we will ever be in any relationship. It doesn't get any more certain than this. Neither of us will meet anyone else or arrive at a stage where we feel any different regarding what our marriage can and can't survive... We just fundamentally don't know whether ANY marriage can survive certain issues. We wouldn't feel any different if we waited longer or picked new partners.

 

The thing is, our belief system dictates that you never have any way of knowing whether ANY marriage can survive infant loss, infertility, involuntary childlessness or a severely disabled child. It isn't that we aren't sure of each other as candidates for parenting. We are as sure as we each ever could be with anyone.

 

It isn't us. We wouldn't ever meet ayone else who would make us suddenly think " oh, our marriage would be infallible" There are some events that are just too hellish and terrible to know for sure how two individuals would both grieve and handle it.. you just can't know irrespective of having a rock solid relationship (or not) prior to marriage.

 

We have a fairly "good idea" that we could survive child related tragedy. We are just not 100% certain that all marriages survive infertility, Childlessness or a severely disabled child. Plenty of great, solid marriages crumble when the worse case scenarios occur..

 

Why is it a given that we should assume even the most solid of marriages can survive tragedy when it comes to children? Don't you think that couples who divorce over child related dramas also felt confident when they first for married ?

 

I know couples who were married for several years and overcame enormous adversities yet failed to survive when their children were both profoundly disabled. Why would you assume that their marriage started off on shaky grounds?

 

Did it ever occur to you that even solid, stable marriages that have lasted years and withstood some horrible things STILL manage to fail due to child related tragedy?

 

We are both a very secure and stable couple. We have weathered a lot of storms and got through it. But we aren't parents yet so how could we possible know yet how we would both respond to abject tragedy?

 

We obviously feel confident and excited about our abilities at parenting together. We aren't walking into having kids with absolutely no sense of whether we feel we would last..

 

We are confident we would be good parents together. We feel very confident and happy going into the pregnancy.

 

For us, this pregnancy happened exactly when we wanted it to and at the age and life stage we most dearly preferred. So everything has happened for us in the best possible way. For US, this is the happiest situation and outcome. What would work for you isn't necessarily what would make other couples happy. Waiting for kids doesn't always lead to happiness for many. Plus we are as sure about each other as we could ever be and this really isn't a case of us needing to meet someone else who would make us feel more confident as we are as confident as we can personally get. This is it for us and it's as good as it gets.

 

I think you would find a lot do totally solid happy couples also agreeing that they aren't sure whether certain awful hardships are survivable in terms of their marriages remaining intact. And it has nothing to do with the individuals being with the wrong person .. it comes down to fundamental values and beliefs. And our beliefs are that some things aren't survivable and you just don't know until you are faced with it.

 

We just happen to want to test the relationship first and have it last before saying for sure it will be forever. And children is an arena neither of us are experienced in and therefore we will need to wait and see what happens. We are confident in thriving with a relatively healthy child. But seriously, who KNOWS how a marriage would weather a great tragedy?

[basil67]

I would have to make it work but I will be honest- it is such an awful life to lead (with a SEVERELY aggressive child, who smears their poo all over the house daily, tried to attack you constantly and is awake 24/7). That isn't living. It's hell. There is absolutely no joy in that it is akin to torture. I would and I know my fiance would - need to put a child like this onto a home with experienced carers at least three days a week.

 

Do you know how hard it is to: a) get funding for and b) get a placement for a child three days per week? It's virtually impossible. Hate to disillusion you, but it would be you and your fiance doing almost all the caring for this child. If you're lucky, you will have family to help.

 

The NDIS will tell you that it's the parent's responsibility to care for the child. With enough pushback and evidence you will get some respite, but not 3 days per week. The other option is to release yourself from all parental responsibility and then the child will go into fulltime foster care or a residental facility.

[NuevoYorko]

You are, unfortunately, setting the stage for an unsuccessful marriage.

 

If a person can't be a good partner without having a child - they are not going to be a good partner with one.

 

And you are putting way too much pressure and unrealistic expectations on your future child. NO child should have to live with the full weight of their mother's ability to even live life, and their parents' entire marriage on its innocent shoulders.

 

I'm rooting for you, Leigh, but I think you might want to talk through this with a professional.

[Leigh 87]

You are, unfortunately, setting the stage for an unsuccessful marriage.

 

If a person can't be a good partner without having a child - they are not going to be a good partner with one.

 

And you are putting way too much pressure and unrealistic expectations on your future child. NO child should have to live with the full weight of their mother's ability to even live life, and their parents' entire marriage on its innocent shoulders.

 

I'm rooting for you, Leigh, but I think you might want to talk through this with a professional.

 

It is not him, it is more to do with me being worried about my mental health if I am unable to fulfill my dream of experiencing parenthood. I just wouldn't be in a good place for a while. I would need extensive grief therapists.

 

I would prefer to deal with any involuntary childlessness and infertility before getting married. I would want to be in a happy state for a marriage. I wouldn't wish to start a marriage when I was severely depressed.

 

I would need a little time to grieve and come to terms before going and doing what should be a very happy thing (marriage).

 

This is me in general. It doesn't have any bearing on who the man in the question is. I just don't like the idea of beginning a marriage amidst pain and grief. I would want to deal with the infertility stuff first rather than to and get married while it is all just starting to unfold.

[Leigh 87]

Do you know how hard it is to: a) get funding for and b) get a placement for a child three days per week? It's virtually impossible. Hate to disillusion you, but it would be you and your fiance doing almost all the caring for this child. If you're lucky, you will have family to help.

 

The NDIS will tell you that it's the parent's responsibility to care for the child. With enough pushback and evidence you will get some respite, but not 3 days per week. The other option is to release yourself from all parental responsibility and then the child will go into fulltime foster care or a residental facility.

 

 

There was a show on SBS that showed families who did just that. They relinquished parental guardianship because they were being attacked constantly every moment of every day and it wasn't sustainable 24/7. Kids this bad need carers and professional care.

 

They visited their son daily in a high care facility.

 

I think they did the right thing. Kid still sees he's parents daily. It's win win. Even the most decent parent may not be able to cope long term with 24/7 abuse. They would be physically and mentally a prisoner with absolutely no quality of life. I would personally rather not have a child at all or commit suicide then live a life of utter hell every day for the rest of my life.

 

And you think a couple should assume that a marriage can sustain that hell? I think it's smart to wait and see first. Even the strongest marriage won't always last with a child that difficult. I don't see what's wrong with my wait and see approach. It's better than divorcing.

 

We are as confident and certain as one can be pre kids. We are just very weary about making vows about being together forever. I don't think that's a bad thing.

[basil67]

Sorry Leigh, I cannot continue this conversation with you.

[Leigh 87]

Sorry Leigh, I cannot continue this conversation with you.

 

Well shouldn't you know more than anyone that the more severe disabilities can break up otherwise solid marriages ? Wedding vows don't make you immune to divorce under those sort of circumstances.

 

Why not wait and see first rather than assuming you could withstand severe adversities regarding child rearing ? Given solid marriage can fail due to kids?

 

A severe disability would be particularly hard for my fiance and I. We chose to get early testing because we would rather no children than a child with a very severe kind of a disability. I have known a lot of parents with children who will never walk or talk or be continent and we would much rather have no kids at all.

Alhough, it is a shame they can't test for mild disabilities versus severe ones. As I would happily parent a child with mild to moderate disabilities of a non violent nature.

 

I am very confused as to why someone like you would think it is silly to be cautious regarding the possibility of having a severely disabled child ?

 

The whole marriage and then children way of doing things just isn't how many couples do it these days. A lot of us do feel confident in our relationships yet would rather test the waters. We are very confident and happy as can be. But for us it isn't enough and we strongly believe in the kids before marriage way of doing things.

[NuevoYorko]

It is not him, it is more to do with me being worried about my mental health if I am unable to fulfill my dream of experiencing parenthood.

Yes, it's not him. It's you. You have been posting massively about all the reasons you can't get married without a baby being born first - a perfectly healthy baby. Only the perfect baby can make your life worthwhile.

 

Unhealthy way to go into a marriage or parenthood.

 

Please talk to a counsellor. It's possible for you to get on a good track for parenthood and marriage but you will need outside input.

 

Good luck. Like the other poster, I'm out, but I'm still rooting for you.

[Leigh 87]

Yes, it's not him. It's you. You have been posting massively about all the reasons you can't get married without a baby being born first - a perfectly healthy baby. Only the perfect baby can make your life worthwhile.

 

Unhealthy way to go into a marriage or parenthood.

 

Please talk to a counsellor. It's possible for you to get on a good track for parenthood and marriage but you will need outside input.

 

Good luck. Like the other poster, I'm out, but I'm still rooting for you.

 

I am still perplexed in why is it so strange that I am not sure that most marriages can be survive if the worst were to happen ?

 

Why is it a given that it will work out ?

 

What is abnormal or in need of therapy about questioning whether making vows that are forever should be more carefully considered in light of the fact that half of marriages end ?

 

If anything it's people who assume they can be together forever despite any kind of setback who are dreaming and being unrealistic.

 

I think it's totally healthy and normal to adopt the wait and see approach rather than just assuming a marriage can withstand literally anything.

 

My fiance and I are being really smart here in our opinion. So what if you have the right feelings. Love isn't enough. Love and high compatibility isn't often enough even.

 

I know plenty of healthy happy couples who decided not to jump into marriage until they had their kids and got to see each other in that role as parents. Perfectly happy marriages. They didn't need therapy due to their aversions of jumping into marriage fast just because everyone else does it.

[Leigh 87]

Yes, it's not him. It's you. You have been posting massively about all the reasons you can't get married without a baby being born first - a perfectly healthy baby. Only the perfect baby can make your life worthwhile.

 

Unhealthy way to go into a marriage or parenthood.

 

Please talk to a counsellor. It's possible for you to get on a good track for parenthood and marriage but you will need outside input.

 

Good luck. Like the other poster, I'm out, but I'm still rooting for you.[/quote

 

I find your view ridiculous sorry.

 

I don't need those things to be okay. No one needs a healthy child to be married. But I would prefer to deal with the aftermath of getting delt a really crappy card first. I want to see how I would cope mentally and overcome those specific adversities before committing.

 

I also love him enough to also want a childfree life together too, if sadly the baby thing doesn't work out. But I would need to work through the guilt and pain of depriving him of W child also .I feel we would remain happy together without children but it is an issue that needs to be fully grieved first before happy events like marriage takes place. As involuntary childlessness does change a lot of people for the worse.

 

My point is, I would need to seriously work through the grief stage first, if either involuntary childlessness or having a child with a severe disability-- sadly came to be a reality..... Before marriage. I would just want to see how well we both handle it first, with the vision of living a positive life together as a married couple.

 

I don't really see anything wrong with wanting to work through ones grief, and be sure you're mentally happy and healthy before committing to a life together with the vows.

 

I would likely overcome adversities and go on to be perfectly happy. But I would certainly want to be very sure first, that the grief hadn't change me/ us too much.

 

Marriage is placing a bet. Some people enter into it and take more of a risk than others. We are just wanting to be very sure of the forever vows a little more than most couples prior to committing.

 

It's absolutely laughable to suggest some counsellor because we approach marriage differently to the mainstream society who we feel commits way more readily. Our way of doing things is no better or worse than anyone elses.

 

We wouldn't think to advise other people to seek psychological help because they all jump into marriage too blindly in our opinions lol..

Edited August 25, 2019 by Leigh 87
T

[Richie4]

Call me cheap or whatever you want, My wedding cost about $700. My wife and I wore what we had already. I wore the only suit I had and it was the same one I wore to interviews at the time. She wore a beautiful flowered dress and we invited two couple friends to our wedding. After the registry wedding, we went to buffet, ate and drank and our friends went back to their respective homes. We felt it didnt make any economic sense to spend so much on a wedding when we are yet to get money to deposit for a home. The wedding was in 2009, although we have been together 7 years before then and we had 2 children before we got married. Today, we have our home (all paid for), another rental home, we have 4 kids altogether, we only have one all paid for Dodge Caravan which we bought new and the story continues because of our prudence and our attitude of non-wasteful approach to life. We still travel and go to movies and find ways to enjoy life without having to be wasteful. Our happiness is more important than the stress that comes from debts and over spending or ostentatious living. You dont need a big wedding to be happy.