Questions about wife's behavior could use some help

[viatori patuit]

Sorry if this is a bit long, but I am completely perplexed here and I am hopeful some of yall can help me straighten this out.

 

First a bit of back story. I recently married last November. Embarrassingly it is my third marriage. My first one ended when my wife had an affair. The second one died a slow and painful death. I could have stayed in the second marriage as long as I wanted. It was not fulfilling for either of us though and I thought it correct to end it.

 

I don't consider myself damaged per se just a bit unlucky and less tolerant of bad situations. I also think sometimes I am easily confused and make some bad decisions as a result. Understanding all of that, here is my question. My new wife (who i dated for two years prior to marriage) has said some things that I find odd to me recently.

 

First, she has told me she is "not attracted to me". This can happen one day, and the next day we are all fine and it is like nothing ever happened. This usually happens when we have a disagreement about something. I have to admit, this bothers me a great deal. It seems immature if she says it and doesn't mean it and it is suicide to stay in a relationship where this is truth. I think she is more immature than anything, but I can't say for sure. She can often follow this up with more direct comments about my graying hair (I am an "Old Man") . And to be fair, her friends have repeatedly told her that I am a handsome guy (and I have always been told that by others). i am 47, so the gray hair kind of goes with the territory. I suppose I could respond with something equally as harsh (like pointing out she gained weight) but that seems counter productive. I tend to keep my mouth shut while this is going on but I admit it bothers me.

 

Second, there have been some sexual issues. I have a very high libido. Like stupid high. I always want it. And I tend to like to push boundaries with people during sex. Not hard and fast boundaries (like no threesomes) but perhaps trying it somewhere new or trying something new with my partner. Of course she is always free to say no. I understand that. I am of the belief however that we both sort of need to agree on these things. If I want something and she doesn't, she absolutely doesn't have to do it. But I don't have to be happy about that. I figure if we communicated about things and worked through them we would reach a happy medium. That is the issue - she won't do that. If we discuss anything sexual it is a fight guaranteed. I am exhausted of this nonsense at this point. If I bring it up she will tell me how in her past she was insatiable with her former boyfriends. Now I suffer a bit from retroactive jealousy, so this is a real sticking point for me. The Retroactive Jealousy isn't her problem, but don't think comments like that are appropriate no matter what.

 

Finally, she will swear at me, call me names and generally degrade me when angry. I have told her repeatedly this is out of line but she won't stop. To me this is beyond immature. This seems like a dumb problem to have, but I have it.

 

 

I am embarrassed I cannot figure out a way to deal wit this situation. We don't normally fight and this is not a huge part of our lives. It happens maybe every three or four months where she gets moody and then says these things. I am really confused right now. Of course I love my wife and I want to make this work. I just don't know how to even begin to approach these issues. Thanks so much for reading.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

And I tend to like to push boundaries with people during sex. Not hard and fast boundaries (like no threesomes) but perhaps trying it somewhere new or trying something new with my partner. Of course she is always free to say no. I understand that. I am of the belief however that we both sort of need to agree on these things. If I want something and she doesn't, she absolutely doesn't have to do it. But I don't have to be happy about that. I figure if we communicated about things and worked through them we would reach a happy medium. That is the issue - she won't do that. If we discuss anything sexual it is a fight guaranteed.

 

So she's free to say no, but she better be ok with you being unhappy about it? Just how are you demonstrating this unhappiness with the free choice she has made? How "out there" are these sexual requests? Provide a specific example.

 

How old is your wife? Has she ever been married? Are there any cultural differences?

[BaileyB]

So, unfortunately you married a verbally abusive woman with whom you are not sexually compatable - and that is a big deal for you.

 

Hmm... Not sure what advice you are looking for because these are the kind of things that you learn/decide before you say "I Do."

 

You could always try marriage counselling... Otherwise, it's pretty hard to compromise with a woman who is calling you names and belittling you...

 

I'm sorry.

[BaileyB]

I tend to like to push boundaries with people during sex. Of course she is always free to say no. I understand that. If I want something and she doesn't, she absolutely doesn't have to do it. But I don't have to be happy about that. I figure if we communicated about things and worked through them we would reach a happy medium.

 

Sure... you want to communicate and compromise - such that you get what you want or you will be unhappy and make her unhappy. Good luck with that...

[viatori patuit]

So she's free to say no, but she better be ok with you being unhappy about it? Just how are you demonstrating this unhappiness with the free choice she has made? How "out there" are these sexual requests? Provide a specific example.

 

How old is your wife? Has she ever been married? Are there any cultural differences?

 

Nothing wild. maybe sex more often or in a risque location. Maybe the occasional blow job? How about some lingerie? Trust me when I say I am super tame compared to some stuff I read out here. I just want to look forward to sex with my wife. I spent the last five years of my previous marriage dreading it.

 

It not like this was a surprise. I told her on our third date that I wouldn't marry a woman who was afraid of being sexually adventerous. She said she was totally fine with it. She indicated she wasn't willing to do threesomes or anal. I was fine with that. She also said she wanted to be able to turn things down which i am also ok with.

 

I think you read too much into this issue - the main issue is we can't discuss it. If we both want something different we need to talk it out. That is not possible. That is my complaint - not that she won't do it. I am pretty easy to satisfy if we are happy and talking about things.

 

She is 43, married once before (she was dumped) and no cultural differences. I think Baily sort of nailed it - a verbally abusive woman who is relatively immature.

[BaileyB]

How long did you know this woman before you married? And what was your sex life like before you married?

 

Something is happening such that she has decided that she does not want to talk/be sexual with you. Perhaps, she is feeling a lot of pressure? Perhaps, it was just not who she was before you get married? It's hard to say... If she is willing to go, marriage counselling would be a good idea to work on your ability to communicate.

[viatori patuit]

Two years of dating prior to marriage.

 

The sex was awesome for the first year or so. Then it was still great but some slow downs here and there. I would ascribe that to the length of the relationship and say it was normal.

 

I am more concerned we can’t discuss it then it is slowing down. I always found the idea that conversations don’t happen to be a fatal issue in relationships.

 

 

And I broached the idea of marital counseling. So did she. I don’t think she would do it though. She is pretty adamant that she is not wrong at all. I suggested IC and MC. For both of us. I love talking to counselors - learn great stuff from them. She said no way. She doesn’t need IC.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

She said no way. She doesn’t need IC.

 

Major red flag. We all need it in my opinion.

[Mr. Lucky]

I think Baily sort of nailed it - a verbally abusive woman who is relatively immature.

 

viatori patuit, here comes the tough love - you come across as somewhat smug and condescending, and if those traits manifest themselves in your marriage, you two are a challenging combination.

 

Perhaps much of the pushback you're feeling from your wife is frustration? You seem really vested in your POV, sexuality and your passive/aggressive approach to resolution but one example. I hope you're as open to examining your own role in this as you are in blaming your wife. Glad you're discussing MC, I'd guess it would really benefit the marriage if taken to heart - by both of you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[BaileyB]

Perhaps much of the pushback you're feeling from your wife is frustration? You seem really vested in your POV, sexuality and your passive/aggressive approach to resolution but one example. I hope you're as open to examining your own role in this as you are in blaming your wife.

 

 

Agree completely.

 

She also need to examine her role in the relationship - the fact that she is not willing to compromise and consider marriage counselling and has been engaging in some very inappropriate behavior means that she has some things she can work on changing as well...

[salparadise]

First, she has told me she is "not attracted to me". This can happen one day, and the next day we are all fine and it is like nothing ever happened. She can often follow this up with more direct comments about my graying hair (I am an "Old Man") .

 

I suppose I could respond with something equally as harsh (like pointing out she gained weight) but that seems counter productive. I tend to keep my mouth shut while this is going on but I admit it bothers me.

 

If we discuss anything sexual it is a fight guaranteed. I am exhausted of this nonsense at this point. If I bring it up she will tell me how in her past she was insatiable with her former boyfriends.

 

Finally, she will swear at me, call me names and generally degrade me when angry.

 

It happens maybe every three or four months where she gets moody and then says these things.

 

 

I'm sorry to hear that you're having these kinds of issues, and I can relate to the pattern. My ex-wife used to resort to similar tactics.

 

Basically it works like this... the marriage contract includes a clause wherein you become responsible for her happiness. When she's not happy it's your fault, because it's obviously not her fault and who else could it be?

 

This comes from a deficit in her sense of self that is mostly manageable day to day, but occasionally overwhelms her. She lacks the introspection to realize that how she feels at a given moment is completely separate from who you are. She expresses her negative feelings about herself as negativity toward you––projection. You have this special role; it's your job to absorb all of this self-loathing and not leave her. It serves to affirm the connection, your devotion, and helps her to feel worthy/validated.

 

The statements are intended to be hurtful, because she is hurting and it's your fault. You are right in not responding with criticism or matching her derogatory comments. You need to stay above it rather than engage. Say, "I'm sorry you feel that way. It hurts me to know.... [whatever she said]. Remain emotionless and disengaged as you respond, other than being sincere about your "I" statement. These kinds of arguments are meeting her need in a certain way, a dysfunctional way of course. The object is to not meet that need any longer and force her to deal with it in a more productive way.

 

There is enmeshment –– she sees you as an extension of herself such that she isn't realistic about where she ends and you begin. You need to enforce a boundary that says, no I am not a part of you that can be manipulated that way. We either have a productive conversation or you'll get more "I" statements.

 

Sex is a control thing. She knows that's the one thing that you can only get if she grants it, and she's using it both to keep you engaged and to jerk you around. You're going to have to act like you can do without to neutralize the controlling aspects, and my guess is that you'll never get that resolved. It's her ace in the hole and she knows it. When she says she was insatiable with other partners, she saying that to hurt you and make you feel like less of a man. In her mind it's a zero sum game. There is a winner and loser to the interactions.

 

If you can get her into counseling, do it. You should probably go yourself because you need to get all of this sorted and make sense of it. My guess is that they will recommend DBT for her (dialectical behavioral therapy). I hate to say it, but I wouldn't bet on her becoming a different person in this lifetime.

[Mr. Lucky]

She also need to examine her role in the relationship - the fact that she is not willing to compromise and consider marriage counselling and has been engaging in some very inappropriate behavior means that she has some things she can work on changing as well...

 

Without question. Though this strikes me as a situation where her account might be quite different. Maybe, on second thought, most all threads are like that ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[viatori patuit]

viatori patuit, here comes the tough love - you come across as somewhat smug and condescending, and if those traits manifest themselves in your marriage, you two are a challenging combination.

 

Perhaps much of the pushback you're feeling from your wife is frustration? You seem really vested in your POV, sexuality and your passive/aggressive approach to resolution but one example. I hope you're as open to examining your own role in this as you are in blaming your wife. Glad you're discussing MC, I'd guess it would really benefit the marriage if taken to heart - by both of you...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

You certainly could be correct. I deleted a paragraph from the original post stating I certainly have blame in this situation (deleted for brevity).

 

I don’t mind if I have work to do. I expect it and look forward to it. Why’s not to like about improving oneself? Sure the work isn’t fun and the truth can be shocking but the only way out is through.

 

 

I am most concerned about:

 

1. The “I am not attracted to you” comments.

2. The name calling.

3. The lack of ability to have a cogent discussion about things.

 

 

The sex stuff is way down the list. Basically that was my last bastion of pleasure when thisbnonsense started. Now it’s gone too.

 

Salparadise might be onto something. She fits many of those traits and his explanation explains the total Jekyll and Hyde I get from her when this nonsense starts. The real problem is she simply won’t go to IC.

 

I guess I could drop ultimatums but those don’t work. I don’t like them myself.

[viatori patuit]

I'm sorry to hear that you're having these kinds of issues, and I can relate to the pattern. My ex-wife used to resort to similar tactics.

 

Basically it works like this... the marriage contract includes a clause wherein you become responsible for her happiness. When she's not happy it's your fault, because it's obviously not her fault and who else could it be?

 

This comes from a deficit in her sense of self that is mostly manageable day to day, but occasionally overwhelms her. She lacks the introspection to realize that how she feels at a given moment is completely separate from who you are. She expresses her negative feelings about herself as negativity toward you––projection. You have this special role; it's your job to absorb all of this self-loathing and not leave her. It serves to affirm the connection, your devotion, and helps her to feel worthy/validated.

 

The statements are intended to be hurtful, because she is hurting and it's your fault. You are right in not responding with criticism or matching her derogatory comments. You need to stay above it rather than engage. Say, "I'm sorry you feel that way. It hurts me to know.... [whatever she said]. Remain emotionless and disengaged as you respond, other than being sincere about your "I" statement. These kinds of arguments are meeting her need in a certain way, a dysfunctional way of course. The object is to not meet that need any longer and force her to deal with it in a more productive way.

 

There is enmeshment –– she sees you as an extension of herself such that she isn't realistic about where she ends and you begin. You need to enforce a boundary that says, no I am not a part of you that can be manipulated that way. We either have a productive conversation or you'll get more "I" statements.

 

Sex is a control thing. She knows that's the one thing that you can only get if she grants it, and she's using it both to keep you engaged and to jerk you around. You're going to have to act like you can do without to neutralize the controlling aspects, and my guess is that you'll never get that resolved. It's her ace in the hole and she knows it. When she says she was insatiable with other partners, she saying that to hurt you and make you feel like less of a man. In her mind it's a zero sum game. There is a winner and loser to the interactions.

 

If you can get her into counseling, do it. You should probably go yourself because you need to get all of this sorted and make sense of it. My guess is that they will recommend DBT for her (dialectical behavioral therapy). I hate to say it, but I wouldn't bet on her becoming a different person in this lifetime.

 

Thanks. I appreciate this more than you know.

 

 

This helps explain some of the nutty stuff I see from her and why it means something different than what I think it does.

 

I wish I could get her to go to counseling. I will ask again. She reacts violently to it though. Sort of like gas lighting. Asserts I am the problem and she was “perfectly happy without me”.

 

Regardless I will start. If this doesn’t improve I think it will end with divorce. I am not interested in being verbally abused by someone anymore. I would bet I end up in the same place next time if I am not careful. I can see where I would fall into this type of bs every time if I can’t recognize it.

[salparadise]

Without question. Though this strikes me as a situation where her account might be quite different. Maybe, on second thought, most all threads are like that ...

 

Eh, I think he laid it out rationally. My only problem with what he said is that he may have some entitlement in his pushing of boundaries sexually. And I don't know this, just an area of interest to be explored.

 

The crap she's saying though... not attracted, graying hair, old man, insatiable with others but not him... these are hitting below the belt literally and figuratively. Why would anyone want to cut this deep? It's an expression her relationship with herself. Once you see where it comes from you can be compassionate, but it's also time to disengage. A man just can't live with a woman this disagreeable and underhanded.

[BaileyB]

I wish I could get her to go to counseling. I will ask again. She reacts violently to it though. Asserts I am the problem and she was “perfectly happy without me”.

 

With all due respect, I would be pretty unhappy with my partner if he decided that I needed individual counselling...

 

You can't really tell the woman that she needs individual counselling. Either you see the problem together, and decide to work on it together in marriage counselling. Or, you divorce. But, insisting the other is to blame and asserting that she needs individual counselling is not going to work for you. She will most likely tell you where to go - and rightfully so.

Edited July 30, 2018 by BaileyB

[viatori patuit]

With all due respect, I would be pretty unhappy with my partner if he decided that I needed individual counselling...

 

You can't really tell the woman that she needs individual counselling. Either you see the problem together, and decide to work on it together in marriage counselling. Or, you divorce. But, insisting the other is to blame and asserting that she needs individual counselling is not going to work for you. She will most likely tell you where to go - and rightfully so.

 

noted.

 

I was really confused when I started this thread. I appreciate the help people have provided. I can understand the wariness around people blaming others - I would be too.

 

I was physically abused as a child. It was fairly rough ( lots of bruising and bleeding). I probably went 5 years straight where I was hit at least once every single day. I would guess that I was punched at least 8,000 -10,000 times as a child.

 

I spent LOTS of time working with professionals to deal with that. I feel like I am pretty comfortable with that and I don't feel the shame that I once did. I am friendly to my abusers and have forgiven them for their actions.

 

Then this stuff starts. And I swear it was like the same feelings all over again. I learned a long time ago that people are weird and they often don't look beyond the end of their own nose before acting. To have someone tell you they love you and they are super happy one day followed by "you are unattractive and I hate being around you" the next is pretty much the same thing sans the physical violence.

[BaileyB]

That makes good sense. I'm sorry that happened to you, but good that you got counselling and found it helpful.

 

Let me be clear, her behavior is completely unacceptable. I just wonder why she is behaving this way...

 

If she doesn't recognize a problem and if she is not willing to do what is required to improve the situation, then you may as well divorce. You can't force someone to change, particulalry when they don't believe that they are the problem/that there is a problem. Thus, my comment that you really can't tell her that she needs therapy... It's an individual decision.

 

Good luck to you.

[viatori patuit]

So do I.

 

That is why I started this thread. I swear the symptoms are beyond weird.

 

If its me then thats fine. No matter if I fix it with her or just fix it on my own at least I have a sense of what happened.

 

She will tell you that she has no problems and that I am the sole source of the issue. If only I helped more with her kids or if only I did more around the house to make her happy this would all be fine.

 

There is absolutely no way she needs any help from ANYONE. And she has made that clear.

[basil67]

Viatori, I had a look at your old posts for context. You were posting about communication issues before you married. The two of you even broke up prior to marrying because things were so bad.

 

Perhaps you married her anyway because you love her. But where's the logic in loving someone who leaves you so frustrated all the time?

[viatori patuit]

Viatori, I had a look at your old posts for context. You were posting about communication issues before you married. The two of you even broke up prior to marrying because things were so bad.

 

Perhaps you married her anyway because you love her. But where's the logic in loving someone who leaves you so frustrated all the time?

 

Those issues were corrected. Early on we did have some issues for sure. We had finally worked through those things and we were really good for a while. This is new and quite an escalation.

[Mr. Lucky]

You certainly could be correct. I deleted a paragraph from the original post stating I certainly have blame in this situation (deleted for brevity).

 

What do you see as your contribution to the disconnect in your marriage? If your wife was posting here, what would she say?

 

Mr. Lucky

[viatori patuit]

What do you see as your contribution to the disconnect in your marriage? If your wife was posting here, what would she say?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I am not really sure.

 

I am positive she would blame me for everything. She really isn’t the type to say she was wrong.

 

I think she really believes she is the aggrieved party here. Now I would never say she is completely wrong. I am sure I have my part to play in this.

 

I had to get on a plane this morning. We just had another nasty text interchange. She swears she is doing stuff to make me happy and that I am unreasonable. Of course her comments are glossed over and she won’t discuss them. She just changes the subject.

 

I am thinking about going to see an attorney when I get back. I don’t want to get divorced again but at this point I need to know my options.

 

This is awful. Unless I do exactly what she says and how she says it I am causing problems. How exactly do you disagree with someone who doesn’t concede they can be wrong?

[viatori patuit]

What do you see as your contribution to the disconnect in your marriage? If your wife was posting here, what would she say?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

 

I thought about this some more.

 

I think I have several character flaws that contribute to this situation:

 

1. I am extremely logical. Like Vulcan level logical. She is extremely emotional. Like crazy fly off the handle emotional. Not always a good mix. I am sure I press my point beyond that which is wise.

 

2. I am certainly obstinate. I understand we differ in opinion. I won’t concede anyone is correct if I think not though. I am always comfortable with a difference in opinion. I don’t think she is.

 

3. She has two small children from a previous marriage. She would say I don’t do enough for them or interact with them enough. I might agree, but there are caveats. One is the fact that I am not their father. I can be a dad and do love being around them but I refuse to step into their relationship with their biological father. Of course she wants me to stomp all over that. Second, I will never see them again if we were to separate. She has made this clear through actions. As a result, I am not comfortable with the level of commitment she seeks.

 

I would bet money that by Thursday this will blow over and we wil never speak of it again. I am ready to either deal with this or stop it with her. The more I think about it the more I realize these comments aren’t acceptable.

[JuneL]

Did you ask her to clarify her comments after the facts? When she said she’s not attracted to you, did she mean she’s not attracted at that particilar moment when you’re fighting? When she said she used to be insatiable with her ex-bfs, was she being spiteful when she was lost in your fight? Not that it’s not horrible to say those things, but did she at least know she didn’t mean them after the facts?