Chosing no kids, changing mind

[H2046]

The short story version......Married for 10 years. I have 2 children from previous marriage, and both are grown. I was up front about not wanting any more children before we engaged, and with that we would be free to travel, etc., and I did not have any interest in going through that experience again. She is a professional, and not stay at home wife type, and agreed. Her thought was my kids would be enough for her, and lots of nieces and nephews for her.

 

The kids were not close to her through the teenage years, and a vicious ex fueled them not getting along, which did not help things. But, we are past that. One is cordial to her, the other is married now, but hasn't spoken to her in 2 years.

 

She is now questioning this decision. She gets a lot of social pressure because of not doing the mom thing, like everyone else, and feels like she doesn't relate at all with friends, and work people. Also, since the relationship with my children did not go as we expected, does not help things, either. I am now 50, her 41.

 

She loves me, loves our life, and enjoys our freedoms. We just cannot find another person, in our same situation, to maybe help talk through this, as she is now grieving not having her own children, and does not want to leave, for this. We have been to professional counseling, as well. This helps, but looking for some real empathy, as she doesn't feel like those we have talked to really understand what she is going through.

 

I know we aren't the first marriage with step-kids, but is there anyone here who has experienced a similar situation, and can shed some help on how you coped with it?

[FMW]

I can't relate to the stepchildren issue, but for what it's worth -

 

My xH and I did not have children. He had no interest in being a father and I certainly didn't want to have children with someone who wasn't into it. I was ok with that decision since I didn't have an overwhelming desire to be a mother.

 

At about your wife's age (I'm 53) I started thinking about it, and although I wasn't seriously reconsidering my decision it was still on my mind a lot. I think it was the issue of it getting to the point of not being a choice anymore, but being a quickly disappearing option.

 

I certainly don't have second thoughts now, but at times do feel an awkwardness when others are discussing children, and now grandchildren. I'll never be an "insider". It just comes with the territory.

[AMarriedMan]

I certainly don't have second thoughts now, but at times do feel an awkwardness when others are discussing children, and now grandchildren. I'll never be an "insider". It just comes with the territory.

 

Well said. Like you imply in the above, the awkwardness you feel is not about the children themselves but not being an "insider" in your crowd.

 

The fear of missing out is one of the stupidest reasons to do anything. Choices like whether or not to have children have to be considered on their own merits and nothing else.

[Mr. Lucky]

Also, since the relationship with my children did not go as we expected, does not help things, either. I am now 50, her 41.

 

Have you discussed in therapy that wanting children as a reaction to an issue isn't the same as wanting them in abstract?

 

I can also tell you that having had an "oops" child when I was 47 altered an awful lot of our plans. Wouldn't change things for the world but it was a real adjustment from the mental image of spending my 50's traveling and relaxing after having raised my other 3 kids...

 

Mr. Lucky

[BaileyB]

As a woman, close to your wife's age with no children of my own but a collection of nieces and nephews who I love like my own and a future stepson...

 

I will say, you do have to grieve the loss of having your own child. It takes time, and it's painful. It does feel at times like you have nothing in common with friends and coworkers. And, it does feel at times like others are building something very valuable and you have little to show for your life...

 

But, I could not imagine having a child at my age. The risks are too high and that is not what I want for this stage of my life.

 

Give her time. Let her grieve. Continue to foster the relationship with your children, as they are adults now they will form their own opinions... I wish you well.

[H2046]

All good inputs, thanks.

 

One of the continuing rubs is that she feels like now I am the one holding her back from a child, because I don't want any more, and have a vasectomy (from the beginning.) Even therapist has worked on this. She really blames herself for putting herself here, but comes out as blame on me. So, when any kind of disagreement happens between us, or someone makes the wrong comment to her about their wonderful life as a mom, it comes out. She asks why she gave up so much for this? Sometimes says she just changed her mind.

 

Counselor suggests that it just naturally goes there because it's becoming less of a choice, and the feeling of not relating, and that she's just still grieving.

 

The thought has crossed my mind to let her go pursue whatever it is. I love her deeply, and don't like seeing her hurt. However, I don't think another divorce, or another child, is the answer. I don't say that flippant, either. That is derived from hours of conversations, counsel, and prayer!

 

I specifically discussed with her before our proposal, that if she really had dreams of having her own kids, then needs to go do that. It would have really hurt to let her go, but I would never want to be a resentment. It was not a conditional proposal, I just provided what my vision of our life could be like without kids, and she accepted.

[brigit87]

 

 

I specifically discussed with her before our proposal, that if she really had dreams of having her own kids, then needs to go do that. It would have really hurt to let her go, but I would never want to be a resentment. It was not a conditional proposal, I just provided what my vision of our life could be like without kids, and she accepted.

 

You're being very fair.

 

Before my husband proposed to me he knew I NEVER wanted to have kids. I would talk with guys about that stuff earlier on when I was dating because I didn't want to waste my time with a guy who would use me for sex but not marry me because I didn't want kids.

 

It was a big issue dating because most men wanted kids.

 

If my husband changed his mind and wanted kids he'd have to divorce me. You just can't sort of have kids.

 

She had no business marrying you if she thought she might want to have kids.

[AMarriedMan]

Wouldn't change things for the world but it was a real adjustment from the mental image of spending my 50's traveling and relaxing after having raised my other 3 kids...

 

Just being philosophical. Skip this if you don't feel like getting into this.

 

People always say that. You couldn't change things even if you wanted. Let's say, as a thought experiment, that you could go back and change things knowing that nobody would know about the oops child after you changed things. I think no normal person would change things knowing that it would cause someone real to never have existed - even if they knew no trace or knowledge of that person's existence remained after the choice. It would be tantamount to killing that person plus any memory of them. Even worse, it would radically alter the fabric of reality with who knows what consequences especially if the person whose birth was canceled had lived for a long time before they were canceled.

Edited August 6, 2018 by AMarriedMan

[stillafool]

You really have to be a couple who could care less about other's opinions. My husband and I are child free and I have no problem listening to others talk about their kids and grand kids. I find their stories funny and interesting and I relate by talking about my nieces and nephews who are in the same age range as their kids. It really isn't so much a problem but if you are only having kids to fit in with others that is the wrong reason.

[Lotsgoingon]

She has changed her mind ... that's legal.

 

I'm a single man ... and I never wanted kids ... I went out of my way not to have kids ... Saw a brother completely overwhelmed with kids ... and knew I was just was barely able to handle my own life.

 

I hit my 40s ... and guess what? I'm mourning not having kids. I'm now divorced ... and there have been times in the past few years when I've gone into a Target, seen a parent with kids, and just felt the ache and longing.

 

So I'm not sure your wife's change of heart is due to problematic interactions with your kids. I think lots of people mourn not having children ... even if they basically live their lives not intending to have children.

 

Question: if her unsatisfying relationships with your older kids is the immediate cause of her longing ... then your wife might think about mentoring, and getting involved in the lives of young people ... coaching ... taking an active role in the lives of nieces, nephews, young cousins, etc. One way I dealt with the ache and yearning is that I'm a teacher and I realized I could get more involved in the lives of my students. I actually find this to be quite satisfying ...

 

But again, she might have changed her mind even if relationships with your children were excellent all along.

 

You guys may soon be grandparents ... any chance being a grand would soothe her? ... It's amazing how my friends who are grandparents go nuts on their grandchildren ... And lots of parents are into having the grands spend ample time with their children--free babysitting.

 

You're in a tough spot ... I generally don't think it's a good idea to have kids if one partner is ambivalent ... But who knows ...

 

Not sure therapy resolves this other than to help each of you get totally clear on what you want and don't want. There isn't really a compromise on this ... where each gets a piece of what they want. One of you has to "win" unfortunately.

 

You need to be clear: are you 100 percent opposed to reversing the vasectomy and becoming a parent? 75 percent opposed? 51-49 opposed?

 

And her: is she feeling 100 percent sure that she wants kids?

 

Would having children kill your life as you know it and want it? Be brutally honest. Are you OK with the marriage ending if you stand firm against having children? Is she saying she'll leave the marriage if you don't change your mind?

[brigit87]

I'm now divorced ... and there have been times in the past few years when I've gone into a Target, seen a parent with kids, and just felt the ache and longing.

 

 

Wow, I had the opposite experience at Target. My husband and I were waiting on line and some kid was screaming their head off and we just looked at each other and laughed.

[BettyDraper]

One of the problems with your situation is neither of you are wrong.

Your wife has the right to change her mind and of course you have the right to stand firm on your decision to remain childfree.

 

I feel sad for both of you. Be sensitive to your wife’s grief and gently remind her that social pressure is no reason to become a parent. The visceral aching for a child is normal though.

 

My husband and I had every intention of staying childfree until very recently. He will be reversing his vasectomy and we will start trying next spring. If we are unable to conceive then we will accept that parenting is not meant for us. Neither of us are interested in adoption.

[BaileyB]

The sad reality for your wife is that at 41 years old, even if you had the ability to get her pregnant tomorrow... The odds of conceiving at her age are significantly lower than if she was a younger woman. Furthermore, the risk to the mother and the possibility of complications with the pregnancy are high.

 

I say this knowing that I have a friend who had her first child last year at the age of 42. It does happen, but it is a significant risk.

 

Her grief is real. Her anger is understandable, but misplaced. And the reality of the situation is, this ship has pretty much sailed...

[Mr. Lucky]

Just being philosophical. Skip this if you don't feel like getting into this.

 

People always say that. You couldn't change things even if you wanted. Let's say, as a thought experiment, that you could go back and change things knowing that nobody would know about the oops child after you changed things.

 

I'm the kind of person that tries to put a positive on most everything. My youngest is now a fine young man and I'm excited to see what he'll do with his life, he seems grounded and able to make well-considered choices. It's also somewhat easier to have a child at that age, you're more relaxed and set financially and you've figured out children aren't made of spun glass, they can handle a few of life's knocks. I had a couple of built-in babysitters .

 

But...I was on a track to retire in my 50's. My son was born with serious initial medical issues and the attending bills. My wife decided she wanted to quit her job and stay home with him until grade school, another financial challenge. It was an additional college education to provide for, a cost with 4 kids now approaching the Mediterranean villa I'd had my eye on. In short, it was a fairly complete recalibration of our lives.

 

I was perfectly happy with 3 almost grown kids but life had other plans for me. Since yours is a decision as opposed to a reaction, make your choice for the right reasons. In this case, I don't think trying to keep a spouse happy is one of them...

 

Mr. Lucky

[H2046]

Not sure therapy resolves this other than to help each of you get totally clear on what you want and don't want. There isn't really a compromise on this ... where each gets a piece of what they want. One of you has to "win" unfortunately.

 

You need to be clear: are you 100 percent opposed to reversing the vasectomy and becoming a parent? 75 percent opposed? 51-49 opposed?

 

And her: is she feeling 100 percent sure that she wants kids?

 

Would having children kill your life as you know it and want it? Be brutally honest. Are you OK with the marriage ending if you stand firm against having children? Is she saying she'll leave the marriage if you don't change your mind?

 

Yes, unfortunately it seems as someone has to win/lose. I'm pretty much 100% opposed. After raising my 2, getting them through college, etc emotionally, time, and money wise. Besides the vasectomy, I don't think I would have the energy for or be good at again. I don't think she is as 100% wants, as much as she is fighting 100% can't....she just hopes it will be enough...not having one.

 

Yes, the time and money would absolutely kill my daily life, and travel plans. I know from experience. Yes, I am being very selfish and protective of the plans we made. No, I'm not ok with ending the marriage because I don't think it is the answer, and there's a lot of love/life left in it. She's not giving me the ultimatum or she'll leave, but it does come up often, especially on a bad day.

 

Thanks for suggestions. She does a lot of animal rescue work, and works with COSA/CPS, orphanage volunteer work with children to help the nurturing.

[Lotsgoingon]

Great you're clear on how you feel ...

 

Well ... just be kind to her as she goes through the mourning and comes to terms with the reality that you are not changing your mind.

 

Lots of hugs, quiet listening ... tell her how much you like her and love her ... Let her cry if she needs to ... Don't try to persuade her to "change her mind" or try to tell her "it's all going to be all right."

 

You can gently offer suggestions for ways to use her maternal and nurturing side ... But only gently so ...

 

I think you're in integrity here ... Just be a shoulder she can cry on ... or talk to ... without you talking much in return! ... Sorry: but we guys sometimes don't realize the value of empathetic silence ... and allowing other people to naturally work their own way through the grief.

 

Hugs ... as long as she allows it ... hugs are the ultimate comforter. Hugs, hand-holding, listening ... warm silence (as opposed to hostile silence) ... only interrupted by statements saying how much you love her.

 

True story: I was in the office a few years back when I got a call from my sister that our brother had died ... I walk into the hallway ... and tell two of my office coworkers. One does the "I'm so sorry" sad-voiced thing ... The other just stands up ... walks over to me ... and hugs me. She doesn't say a word. Just hugs me.

 

Totally what I needed.

[d0nnivain]

I know we aren't the first marriage with step-kids, but is there anyone here who has experienced a similar situation, and can shed some help on how you coped with it?

 

It's not completely similar but we are a childless couple married 10 years. I was never chomping at the bit to have kids. We married later in life when I was already 41. He wanted kids. We tried. I did not get pregnant. We looked into IVF. It was very expensive, time consuming & emotionally draining. I was already making myself crazy & feeling defective for not conceiving naturally, even while monitoring my ovulation etc. After saying he wanted kids when we had these talks about what he'd have to do during the IVF process & after, I was not wiling to do my part -- daily injections which would have interfered with my job -- because he wasn't as willing to do the child rearing as he desire for kids would have indicated so we never went the IVF route. We continue to have unprotected sex but I have never gotten pregnant so I assume it's just not in the cards. It took me a long time to make some peace with the idea that I will never have kids. As a woman I feel defective. Why can't I do this thing that is sooo easy for other women. Most times I am OK because we do have a lot of freedom & the money to enjoy it. We don't have to sacrifice sleep or travel for a kid but we don't get the joy either & dying alone scares me that there will not be somebody there to advocate for me in the hospital in my old age.

 

It's a personal choice but understand she may resent you greatly for depriving her of this. It has to be a joint decision and she has to be free to divorce you if her desire for kids is stronger then her desire to stay with you.

[BettyDraper]

It's not completely similar but we are a childless couple married 10 years. I was never chomping at the bit to have kids. We married later in life when I was already 41. He wanted kids. We tried. I did not get pregnant. We looked into IVF. It was very expensive, time consuming & emotionally draining. I was already making myself crazy & feeling defective for not conceiving naturally, even while monitoring my ovulation etc. After saying he wanted kids when we had these talks about what he'd have to do during the IVF process & after, I was not wiling to do my part -- daily injections which would have interfered with my job -- because he wasn't as willing to do the child rearing as he desire for kids would have indicated so we never went the IVF route. We continue to have unprotected sex but I have never gotten pregnant so I assume it's just not in the cards. It took me a long time to make some peace with the idea that I will never have kids. As a woman I feel defective. Why can't I do this thing that is sooo easy for other women. Most times I am OK because we do have a lot of freedom & the money to enjoy it. We don't have to sacrifice sleep or travel for a kid but we don't get the joy either & dying alone scares me that there will not be somebody there to advocate for me in the hospital in my old age.

 

It's a personal choice but understand she may resent you greatly for depriving her of this. It has to be a joint decision and she has to be free to divorce you if her desire for kids is stronger then her desire to stay with you.

 

I'm so sorry that you had to go through this.

 

IVF is indeed expensive not to mention rather invasive. It's not always guaranteed to work either...especially when the woman is "older".

I say this as a woman who is anxious about trying to conceive at age 37. It may be too late for me by then.

 

You are NOT defective.

[Striver]

Is there anything tangible that you can offer her? However small, some adjustment on your part? Short of having kids? It would be a great gesture.

 

Maybe some way of being involved with kids that also included you? So you were doing it as a couple? Make up a bit for the stepmom part not working out?

 

Maybe kick it up a notch with some of the nieces and nephews, again including you?

[DKT3]

Yes, unfortunately it seems as someone has to win/lose. I'm pretty much 100% opposed. After raising my 2, getting them through college, etc emotionally, time, and money wise. Besides the vasectomy, I don't think I would have the energy for or be good at again. I don't think she is as 100% wants, as much as she is fighting 100% can't....she just hopes it will be enough...not having one.

 

Yes, the time and money would absolutely kill my daily life, and travel plans. I know from experience. Yes, I am being very selfish and protective of the plans we made. No, I'm not ok with ending the marriage because I don't think it is the answer, and there's a lot of love/life left in it. She's not giving me the ultimatum or she'll leave, but it does come up often, especially on a bad day.

 

Thanks for suggestions. She does a lot of animal rescue work, and works with COSA/CPS, orphanage volunteer work with children to help the nurturing.

Listen ending this marriage is the answer, if we are being honest. Were I a betting man I would bet even with all the conversations you say the two of you had/are having she likely thought she could either change your mind or simply changed her mind.

 

Here is the thing, you say having a child or ending the marriage is NOT the answer, the question is for who? It maybe the answer for her, it's not you place to decide that for her, nor does she need your approval.

 

In my opening I said divorce was the only option, and I believe it is. Here is why. your wife wants a child, at 41 it still very possible to have a healthy pregnancy and child, why wife just had one at 41 herself and still wants another baby today. So either she leaves and has a child with someone else, or she stays unhappy filled with resentment and leave in a decade having lost her opportunity to have a child. So you need to answer if you love her unselfishly or selfishly. The difference is letting her go because you want what's best for her or holding on because you want her to do what is best for you.

[Striver]

Yes, unfortunately it seems as someone has to win/lose. I'm pretty much 100% opposed. After raising my 2, getting them through college, etc emotionally, time, and money wise. Besides the vasectomy, I don't think I would have the energy for or be good at again. I don't think she is as 100% wants, as much as she is fighting 100% can't....she just hopes it will be enough...not having one.

 

Yes, the time and money would absolutely kill my daily life, and travel plans. I know from experience. Yes, I am being very selfish and protective of the plans we made. No, I'm not ok with ending the marriage because I don't think it is the answer, and there's a lot of love/life left in it. She's not giving me the ultimatum or she'll leave, but it does come up often, especially on a bad day.

 

Thanks for suggestions. She does a lot of animal rescue work, and works with COSA/CPS, orphanage volunteer work with children to help the nurturing.

 

Having reread this, I would echo DTK3 and tread carefully here. Kids/no kids is a pretty big dealbreaker.

 

You are perfectly within your rights not to have more. But "I'm protective of the plans we made..." she's her own person. Like DTK3, on such an important issue, if you are a stone wall, you may push her out the door long term anyway.

[H2046]

So.... I guess from responses is that its either I get what I want, or, she gets to try what she may want elsewhere.....afiter changing her mind.....? I still think there is a solution without us breaking up. We still want to make it work together!

[brigit87]

So.... I guess from responses is that its either I get what I want, or, she gets to try what she may want elsewhere.....afiter changing her mind.....? I still think there is a solution without us breaking up. We still want to make it work together!

 

I don't think it could work if she wants kids and you don't. It's a huge issue. I never wanted kids and I could never be with a man who does.

 

You could get a dog. But that might not satisfy her.

[Mr. Lucky]

I still think there is a solution without us breaking up. We still want to make it work together!

 

Maybe you could help us understand by explaining what you think that solution is?

 

Any kind of near parenting experience - volunteering, mentoring, relatives, etc. - may only reinforce in her mind what she's missing so I'm not sure where the middle ground lies here...

 

Mr. Lucky

[BTDT2012]

Societal pressure is no reason to have children. If your wife truly wants to have children, she will leave you, and you should accept her decision. I don't think you should be forced into having children that you don't truly want.