Stay at home dad, wife leaving me.

[bathtub-row]

I disagree that you’re acting like a teenager. The communication between the two of you is completely shot and I tend to agree that trying to salvage things at this point is going to be nearly impossible. A connected couple would’ve discussed it between themselves first and most likely wouldn’t have even seen the need to tell the children (unless they were already aware of it). That aside, the lack of connection is very serious here. While she’s gone, you might want to make plans about how to separate and talk to her about it when she returns. Enough is enough.

[JuneL]

So you guys are spending Thanksgiving and part of the holidays separately?

[GinON]

You are slipping back into your old ways here. Her being away from you without contact is having the same effect as it does on some teenage guy when he was went 24 hours without a text from her. He thinks all hope is lost and asks if he should move on.

...

This message from you sounds a whole lot like the first message you originally posted way back at the beginning (message #1) that got this whole process going.

 

Interesting perspective as usual. Part of her job involves danger so this is normal on some of her trips, telling the kids is not. Part of being a strong husband in this situation is to let her be in charge of her own safety, she is very well trained. I am confident in her ability to take care of herself, the lockdown is confusing, but its part of the protocol. I did ask after her welfare, I just left that out because its so obvious to me that I would have. I do have to keep things vague but I can see how you would not think I was thinking of her welfare form my post. I didn't even think about the ramifications of talking to the kids for a couple of days when a friend pointed it out.

 

 

So you guys are spending Thanksgiving and part of the holidays separately?

 

Wont see her till middle of January.

 

 

I'm way further along with my own self repair than you'd think. I have learned how to separate the anxieties I first met you with from my personality which is certainly not stereotypical male. I am not a macho man, never will be but I am very confident (again and more than ever in my life) with my emotional and analytical/technical sides of my personality.

 

I misunderstood the CW/ Alpha male thing to mean macho, tough guy for while. Maybe it does to some people, but I have always preferred the company of women and never fit in with a pack of dudes, football, guns, hunting, beer, nascar, strip clubs etc, ick, sorry mates. But I can build an iron casting furnace, a car, or a house by hand, work on computers, code, sew, etc. I am a renaissance man and everyone that knows me, knows it.

 

Here is where I got sidetracked:

 

In attempting to rebuild my confidence I somehow connected the anxiety and stress of being a SAHD* to the stigma of "women's work" and my emotionally aware personality together. I started to see being "emotionally aware" and other traits that make make up who I am, as weakness; not masculine, not attractive. The Alpha male coaching, CW, and others, I misinterpreted to mean; I needed to become "one of the guys" because isn't that "masculinity?" I began to 2nd guess the way my mind works altogether so that I would match what sounded like my wife (or women in general) wanted in a way that denied who I am. This was destroying my confidence further and I was probably tearing apart my own personality (listening to all the stigmatization) the whole time I was a SAHD. 6 years...

 

So the reality is, I am a dynamic person that is very in touch with emotions, analytical thinking and some traditional masculinity, and proud of it. Can I be a strong, confident man while being emotional? Absolutely! In fact I dont think CW could be who he is if he didn't understand emotions extremely well. Does it mean that I get emotional, lose control of my feelings and "act like a girl" from time to time? Hell yes it does and lately, when I tell women that I am comfortable being this way, I can see their pupils dilate. Its confidence in who you are that is sexy, not being really good at imitating someone you are not, no matter how awesome Hollywood makes them look, ie James Bond, etc.

 

So maybe I do sometimes read like my first post, all full of emotions and anxiety, but I am OK with that because getting divorced is not a thing I can just blow off and smirk my way through.

 

*Being a stay at home parent is really F'ing hard!

Edited November 20, 2018 by GinON

[PRW]

Interesting perspective as usual. Part of her job involves danger so this is normal on some of her trips, telling the kids is not. Part of being a strong husband in this situation is to let her be in charge of her own safety, she is very well trained. I am confident in her ability to take care of herself, the lockdown is confusing, but its part of the protocol. I did ask after her welfare, I just left that out because its so obvious to me that I would have. I do have to keep things vague but I can see how you would not think I was thinking of her welfare form my post. I didn't even think about the ramifications of talking to the kids for a couple of days when a friend pointed it out.

 

Fair enough.

 

And I always appreciate how you take my sometimes hard hitting comment with stride.

[JuneL]

How are you and your kids spending Thanksgiving and the holidays without their mother?

 

I don’t think stay-at-home dads have to be all miserable. The former HP CEO Carly Fiorina’s husband was a SAHD for a long time (he was an executive at AT&T before quitting his job). They’ve been married for decades; the last I checked, their marriage was still strong.

[GinON]

How are you and your kids spending Thanksgiving and the holidays without their mother?

 

I don’t think stay-at-home dads have to be all miserable. The former HP CEO Carly Fiorina’s husband was a SAHD for a long time (he was an executive at AT&T before quitting his job). They’ve been married for decades; the last I checked, their marriage was still strong.

 

I didnt mean to imply that all SAHP struggle. Just that it is very difficult job, especially if your kid screams (inexplicably) at you 4 hours out of the day and cant sleep without intense manual swinging for 3 years. I slept 3 to 4 hours a day for months at a time, no family in town and we were short a few million in terms of the CEO babysitting budget. Part of the time my wife was on these trips. I had not heard of the Fiorina's and I am not sure they mean anything to me, kind of like I dont matter to a family in a small village in Peru. People in the .05% tax bracket are not living in the same world in terms of access to mental health, babysitters, etc, etc.

 

We are visiting many friends over thanksgiving, we have dinner plans every night Wed through Sunday. My kids have no idea they are missing anything since all our family is out of state anyway. We are also not meat eaters, so...meh to turkey et al. We are planning a late Xmas with my wife, but we are not very religious and our kids need fewer toys, not more! I keep us busy doing fantastic things. This is part of life in families with this kind of job. It is what it is.

[bathtub-row]

I'm all for people staying home with their kids but, dude, you really need to get a job. You're ruining your career potential. In your mind, what does your future look like? What happens when the kids are grown?

 

Aside from all that, why on earth would a child scream 4 hrs out of the day, or not be able to sleep? If you're not a meat eater, maybe that particular child is or should be. There's no reason for a child to be acting that way unless it's a dietary, mental, or stress issue. It's incredibly dysfunctional. Is that still going on, or is that something from the past?

 

From where I'm standing, you seem very lost and cut-off and I doubt your wife has any respect for you, yet you just continue to put up with this situation. I honestly don't get it. I'm not trying to be mean but I think I'd blow my brains out if I were in your situation. It's one thing to be at home with the kids when the marriage is secure but you're teetering on the edge of a precipice every single day. Why are you choosing to live like this?

[GinON]

I'm all for people staying home with their kids but, dude, you really need to get a job. You're ruining your career potential. In your mind, what does your future look like? What happens when the kids are grown?

 

Aside from all that, why on earth would a child scream 4 hrs out of the day, or not be able to sleep? If you're not a meat eater, maybe that particular child is or should be. There's no reason for a child to be acting that way unless it's a dietary, mental, or stress issue. It's incredibly dysfunctional. Is that still going on, or is that something from the past?

 

From where I'm standing, you seem very lost and cut-off and I doubt your wife has any respect for you, yet you just continue to put up with this situation. I honestly don't get it. I'm not trying to be mean but I think I'd blow my brains out if I were in your situation. It's one thing to be at home with the kids when the marriage is secure but you're teetering on the edge of a precipice every single day. Why are you choosing to live like this?

 

Not sure why my kids did that, it was broken out over 3 sessions every day. He just couldnt communicate his needs because he was 2. Its mostly stopped now, just a few little normal 1 minute fits per day, the damage was done though.

 

 

I have jobs lined up for next year in a new career for me that relates to my life's training. It will be enough to pay bills and still flexible enough be there for the kids when they get bumped from school for sickness, snow days, holidays etc. Wife's job doesn't permit that kind of pick up the kids all of a sudden kind of thing. Sorry cant give details, it just is that way.

 

After a few years it can develop into a good job with benefits.

 

**************

Wife is now talking from afar via video chat and is still saying she wants to move out but still go to MC. She is talking to her family about it now which is new. She is friendly and helpful and asks me things like whether or not she can buy such and such little item. Its like playing house with someone that's got a knife at your throat. Not sure I should talk to her any more, it just makes me angry and lose sleep.

 

I have been stringing myself along hoping this would get better, its hasn't and I can see that it wont.

 

I am sitting in our house with all her crap everywhere waiting till she comes back so she can move out and trying to be in a good mood when my kids are at home. Then she complains via chat about feeling like a stranger in her own house because she is living in the guest room. Its not really going to be her house again, and I think she hasn't figured that out completely. She was thinking of leaving her bike over for when we go bike riding. At least she realized what that sounded like on her own.

 

I am trying to stay focused on the life I will have and trying to think about what it might be like to date again, but I think that will be a long time from now. Will it be easier once her stuff is all gone? Not sure, the house will be strange and empty. I am starting to wish she had just left 6 months ago, at least I would be that much further along.

 

I feel like I have wasted the last 14 years on us and I think she feels the same way. Forgive my ranting, not having a good day.

[Wallysbears]

Here's my perspective - and i've read this entire thread.

 

First - you still don't have a job. And this is obviously a point of contention with your wife. GET A JOB. Not "I have one lined up for next year"...get a job now. Teach lessons for kick boxing if you have to or whatever. A job. If you have to go work retail in a sporting goods store or toss boxes for UPS for the winter holiday season...then do it. Don't tell her that you are GOING to do it, do it.

 

Men that are unemployed are VERY draining on their wives. and very unappealing.

 

Second - stop waiting for HER to make all the decisions. If she's pushing the idea of living in the studio, perhaps it is time to pick up the phone and call a real estate agent and sell the studio.

 

I'd simply tell her that "well, you are saying that we are going to separate in January, and a studio isn't a valid option for a parent to be staying with 2 young children so *I* figured it is time to get that investment money back so that it can be more properly allocated to proper living arrangements."

 

 

Third - start interviewing child care/nanny, etc. whatever your choice in child care will be. Hire someone or enroll the kids somewhere. It will benefit them AND it will allow you time for that job and/or job hunting.

 

 

Time to put on the pants and man up here. While it is great that you are doing all this introspection, the time table here to either fix this or not is running out.

 

I want to see you save this. I'm rooting for you. But you really do need to "man up" here and take charge or you ARE going to wind up separated or divorced. And maybe...just maybe...if you DO man up? You'll shake her up a little bit and pull her back over to your side. If not...then at least the steps you will be taking will be advantageous to a better outcome when/if you do separate.

[PRW]

Here's my perspective - and i've read this entire thread.

 

You are a glutton for punishment. Quite a task.

I'll "2nd" the rest of what you said.

 

I also stand by what I said two posts ago about "slipping back into the old ways". I only said "Fair enough" in the subsequent post because I was just tired of debating it.

 

Does it mean that I get emotional, lose control of my feelings and "act like a girl" from time to time? Hell yes it does and lately, when I tell women that I am comfortable being this way, I can see their pupils dilate. Its confidence in who you are that is sexy, not being really good at imitating someone you are not, no matter how awesome Hollywood makes them look, ie James Bond, etc.

I think you have this wrong. If the women's pupils dilated when you said this you should have took note of it rather than double-down. Their pupils were right to dilate. I think when you made this shift was probably near the same time I saw your wife's improvement shift back to her old ways in response. I honestly think whoever guided you in this direction was just simply wrong,...bad advice.

 

However I think it has all reached a point where too much damage has been done. So a mute point.

[GinON]

However I think it has all reached a point where too much damage has been done. So a mute point.

 

Its all moot now anyway as you say.

 

Just getting a random job that pays $9 an hour for a month and a half before this new $35/hr + career starts up? Nah, I sold some things I build already this month and that paid more than a months work at one of those jobs. She said, "interesting" when it came up and offered to help with something related. Then later in the same conversation emphasized that she was moving out when she got back.

 

She is focused on the pain of the past going back 12+ years, keeps saying how different I am now, validating my sacrifices for the kids, being sad to leave the house we built, etc.

 

Now I am just rambling. I gotta stay focused on my future, I appreciate everyone trying to help me out. Unless something significant happens I will let this thread sink down, maybe come back and report after the divorce or separation.

[JuneL]

Why is she making all the decisions about how you are separating? If I were in your shoes, I would also want my own studio. I would want us to take turn living in the house with the kids, even if it means she can only live in the house a few days per month on average. But the kids will be her sole responsibility when it is her turn. That is how separated or divorced co-parents share custody. It boggles my mind why you would let her make all the calls like that.

 

Perhaps your toddler screamed like that because the mother was barely around.

[GinON]

Hey, I have been thinking about your last posts and a lot of other things and gotten more space and more clear about this. There are several misconceptions about my working and her expectations after coming back that are my fault because I didnt explain well enough. I dont feel the need to correct them, but just wanted to say thanks kicking me in the arse when I need it. Your points are great even if the facts are a bit off. I have my plans all laid out for the future, regardless of outcome.

 

I had a revelation the other day, I would like to share. My wife started birth control pills for the first time in her life the day this whole thing blew up. She asked me to tell her if she started acting strange or extra moody when she started them. The first month or two of our problems she was still receptive to changes and improving things; there was still sex, sleeping in the same bed, flirting, etc. But over time, her anger and irrationality has grown. It could be normal and have nothing to do with the hormones..I know, I know . Thinking about how difficult this year has been I wondered if the artificial hormones could be exacerbating things. So, I asked her to consider a break from them for a few months to remove that variable from the equation of work and family stress. She had forgotten that she asked me to watch out for this which surprised her. She had also not remembered a few other things she had been doing that were uncharacteristic for her, like thinking she was medically invincible, ignoring some safety precautions, and contradicting herself from one day to the next. This is all pretty unlike her.

 

I handled it in a way that made her comfortable by asking her to contact me when she had time to discuss it. You don't need a play by play, but I was good and as James Bond-ish as you could be about this; no drama. Even the best alpha male is no match for twisted biochemistry, I have seen how those hormones can screw with women's minds in past relationships.

 

So I am hopeful that she does get off them, and that it does have a beneficial affect. Worse case, she gets angrier! Worse, worse case, she gets pregnant!

 

Back to focusing on myself, applying for jobs, networking and selling stuff I make, being a great dad and all that.

[Marc878]

Sounds like hopium.

 

I wouldn't make the mistake of projecting onto her. I love her so she has to love me too thing.

 

The worse thing you can do in these situations is stay in denial. This really isn't her. The woman I love wouldn't do this so.......

 

She knows exactly what she doing. It takes some thinking to act. It just didn't happen because you left the commode seat up one day.

[JuneL]

Why did she even need birth control in the past months, if she refused sex with you? Of course unless...

[GinON]

Of course that is possible Junl, last two comments in my post are making light of that. If I could tell you her job, the pill makes sense, but you are right on the hopium and staying not pregnant while traveling.

 

Any of that going on is an easy exit for me!!!

 

If she hasn’t had the balls to just make a clean cut and leave while she is lying I can feel no guilt during a divorce and enjoy the rest of my 40s.

[S2B]

Of course that is possible Junl, last two comments in my post are making light of that. If I could tell you her job, the pill makes sense, but you are right on the hopium and staying not pregnant while traveling.

 

Any of that going on is an easy exit for me!!!

 

If she hasn’t had the balls to just make a clean cut and leave while she is lying I can feel no guilt during a divorce and enjoy the rest of my 40s.

 

What kind of job expects a woman to be on the pill?

 

Please explain because that doesn't make sense.

Edited December 10, 2018 by S2B

[GinON]

What kind of job expects a woman to be on the pill?

 

Please explain because that doesn't make sense.

 

Its not an expectation of the job, but use your imagination, where would you work that would be extremely inconvenient to be dealing with the menstruation issues? I cant be specific, sorry but its not an office job.

 

 

So yesterday was interesting for me. I had spent some time with an old friend for a couple of days and when he left, for some reason I got really angry at my wife and allowed myself to feel that pretty deeply without being angry at myself. I hated the feeling and kept it to myself, but the next day something clicked in my mind and I suddenly felt a change. When you read it you guys are gonna say, Well DUH!! & CW would be C'mon MAN!!

 

I finally understood how I have been trying to be happy for a decade and why it wasn't working. I have been trying to do everything to make her happy and hoping that if she was happy with me, I would be happy. I have said something like this months ago but didnt really grasp it, apparently. ("I had given my self worth over to her", or something like that.) This wasn't a skin deep, conscious thing I was doing but I was operating completely out of fear of her being unhappy and running around "butler-ing" and placating, serving and catering to her every whim. I even did this inside my head, catering my thoughts to her needs I was imagining. Total psychosis level of crazy way to function in the world.

 

So now I am learning how to focus on what I want for my life without catering to anyone else's whims or dreams, I don;t need to make that mistake again. This separation is still distracting and will take a lot of effort but that's all it has to be.

 

Pretty good thing to figure out! I listened to a couple of CW vids and by a fluke they described exactly what I had just came to understand. I had probably heard them 4 times before and they never really gelled till yesterday.

 

BTW we dont own a second home or studio, and no future arrangements have been made yet; all the talk about that has just been her hypothetical ramblings. Nothing along those lines is happening without my lawyer's approval.

 

Sometimes its hard hearing what you guys say here, but I appreciate it every time.

[JuneL]

When you get bored, go back to re-read the whole thread. At least half of my posts were asking why you had to twist yourself like a pretzel to cater for what she wants.

 

What an epiphany!

[vla1120]

I finally understood how I have been trying to be happy for a decade and why it wasn't working. I have been trying to do everything to make her happy and hoping that if she was happy with me, I would be happy. I have said something like this months ago but didnt really grasp it, apparently. ("I had given my self worth over to her", or something like that.) This wasn't a skin deep, conscious thing I was doing but I was operating completely out of fear of her being unhappy and running around "butler-ing" and placating, serving and catering to her every whim. I even did this inside my head, catering my thoughts to her needs I was imagining. Total psychosis level of crazy way to function in the world.

 

This totally triggered me because this is exactly what my estranged husband used to say he was doing. He would tell me he was making these decisions for us because if I was happy, then he would be happy. But I WASN'T happy (in his case, it was more control than anything, but that's a whole other topic...) My bottom line was that I did not want to be made responsible for someone else's happiness!! He just never got that. I am glad you have seen the light!!