Stay at home dad, wife leaving me.

[bathtub-row]

People often think things can’t be repaired but I’m a firm believer that they can if the couple once loved one another and if they’re both willing to work on it. Love can be restored in situations like that, even when it seems unlikely.

 

You seem like a very introspective guy. I’m very surprised that you have this avoidant tendency. Based on what your wife said, I think she feels unloved by you. This is a very bad thing but something that is definitely fixable. I wouldn’t give up hope. You need to figure out what makes your wife feel loved.

[PRW]

His book in a nut shell: ,Be strong, don’t waver under pressure and be something you like. If it’s not working, move on.

The Tony Robins videos are much more nuanced, and pretty inspiring

 

 

CW is weaker with marriages than the dating process. He is "in his element" with the early dating process, and is very good with the self-improvment and understanding the differences in how men and women think. He almost can't be beaten in that area, and is why I recommended him. I knew if you got the self improvement down and to understand how your wife would view and communicate in ways you never realized before (understand what she thinks, what is attractive to her, etc),...the rest would take care of itself.

 

 

CW is a student of Tony Robbins, so the rest of CW's stuff is rooted in that.

 

 

I used to do MA too. I've been through a few promotions in traditional Karate with a self-defense focus rather than competition (put the other guy down fast and get out of there, rather than score points). I did it more for fitness and confidence building,...and it worked. I'm considering getting back into it again. I seems with you and I, there as a lot of parallels in our journeys.

[PRW]

I’ve finally gotten to where I don’t lose my cool we’re talking about issues we face, and she will razz me about stuff she is unhappy about. I will just smile and look at her in a way that says, “I know you are testing me, bring it on!” I feel unshakable emotionally and I don’t need her to make me feel good about myself. I would prefer that we be ready to start repairing and building our relationship but she is still in recoil and bitter mode.

Compare this to your very first post at the beginning that started all this,...it is a night and day difference.

[GinON]

I have been listening to Craig Kenneth’s stuff on YouTube which seems like good stuff:

 

We had a 2nd counseling session and went out on date this week.

The meeting was painful and we left a bit sore. The date went a lot better than awful! We actually had a good time, and I felt relaxed and comfortable. That’s a personal improvement for me, I’ll take it!

[JuneL]

I have been listening to Craig Kenneth’s stuff on YouTube which seems like good stuff:

 

We had a 2nd counseling session and went out on date this week.

The meeting was painful and we left a bit sore. The date went a lot better than awful! We actually had a good time, and I felt relaxed and comfortable. That’s a personal improvement for me, I’ll take it!

 

Would you mind sharing a bit about your counseling session?

[GinON]

The MC session started by asking us what how we felt since last meeting.

 

She asked what the next step was and I said I have to work on myself and that I had no control over how my wife proceeded or felt but implied that it will be her decision how this ends. She would either soften her bitterness or not. Then she (wife) talked about how hard it would be for her to get passed this and shared her deep anger and more bitterness.

The therapist put me on the spot when my wife finished explaining how I made her feel unattractive and unloved. “This is when it’s usually a good time to comfort your wife hold her and tell her you love her...” I said, “My wife has told me I am not at all attractive to her and not to touch her or tell her nice things, it just makes her angry. I have tried to push against this and gotten the feedback that I am ignoring her needs because she asked for space, and we have discussed and acknowledged the catch 22 problem here.” She wants to feel loved but doesn’t want me to share these feelings with her now...

 

I actually felt bad for he therapist at this point as my wife confirmed my statement.

 

She still insisted I continue...

 

Then I said, “Isn’t this just awkward and going to be very forced and seem disingenuous?”

 

“You need to do this, it’s part of the process, it also helps you deal with your avoidant attachment style.

 

I so wanted to leave but I grabbed my wife’s limp hand and told her I loved her and what I loved about her. God it was awkward and I could feel the deep anxiety that has plagued me my whole life but I didn’t run or panic so there is that. I was also ready for this kind of question expecting to be asked to say this at some point. I was in control but my fight or flight system wanted to take over.

 

The therapist made suggestions that my wife try having sex and taking some risks but I think she is moving too fast for the wife who told her how that wasn’t happening anytime soon if ever again. We discussed some hugs we had had since the previous session but my wife said she was just doing it for me, not her. Therapist says that can happen for a while then shift to being nice for both.

 

I think the therapist is not expecting much at this point but we made another appointment and like I said, we had a decent date. I was even able to kiss her once even though lots of alcohol was involved. She wasn’t evasive or unfriendly all night. She has since thanked me for taking her out and said she had a good time more than once. There is a feeling of happiness that we went out stained with, why hadn’t we done this kind of thing a lot in the past? (My social anxieties were at work, a major part of why we are in this place).

 

With every positive step forward there is a step backwards that can be taken and this will take a very little help time to heal, if it’s possible.

 

If I gauge my wife’s feelings today, I would say she has softened a little bit. I have upped my game of being a better listener, housekeeper, cook, father, partner, dresser, gotten more independent and in better physical shape, I’m going to therapy for myself, reading a bunch of psychology, and I have not given up. She can see all that and I think if I keep doing all this for the next year I will either win her back or I won’t feel like she deserves me if she doesn’t. Either way, I am going to have a better life going forward.

 

She has a business trip for a while so there will be few updates, I plan to keep contact to a minimum, just pics of kids. Sort of a no contact thing, but nothing evasive, I just think we could use a break.

 

It’s a long road, I am sorry so many of us find ourselves on it.

[JuneL]

Okay, thanks for describing your session. Now, I can put Fifty Shades into perspective. Let me ask you this: Are YOU attracted to your wife? Do YOU want to be physically intimate with her? If yes, you can’t be doing it in a half-a$$ed manner; you have to act in a very sure manner; your wife loves to feel desired by you; the reason she found you unattractive was that you didn’t act like you really wanted her; you were so afraid she might have a negative reaction, and that became self-fulfilling. Are you one of those guys who had to ask if it’s okay to hold her hand or to kiss her when you first started dating? As much as Fifty Shades is a bad movie, there’s perhaps small things you can learn from it (forget about the sex scenes for now). Just observe how Grey interacted with Ana in the first installment.

 

The MC session started by asking us what how we felt since last meeting.

 

She asked what the next step was and I said I have to work on myself and that I had no control over how my wife proceeded or felt but implied that it will be her decision how this ends. She would either soften her bitterness or not. Then she (wife) talked about how hard it would be for her to get passed this and shared her deep anger and more bitterness.

The therapist put me on the spot when my wife finished explaining how I made her feel unattractive and unloved. “This is when it’s usually a good time to comfort your wife hold her and tell her you love her...” I said, “My wife has told me I am not at all attractive to her and not to touch her or tell her nice things, it just makes her angry. I have tried to push against this and gotten the feedback that I am ignoring her needs because she asked for space, and we have discussed and acknowledged the catch 22 problem here.” She wants to feel loved but doesn’t want me to share these feelings with her now...

 

I actually felt bad for he therapist at this point as my wife confirmed my statement.

 

She still insisted I continue...

 

Then I said, “Isn’t this just awkward and going to be very forced and seem disingenuous?”

 

“You need to do this, it’s part of the process, it also helps you deal with your avoidant attachment style.

 

I so wanted to leave but I grabbed my wife’s limp hand and told her I loved her and what I loved about her. God it was awkward and I could feel the deep anxiety that has plagued me my whole life but I didn’t run or panic so there is that. I was also ready for this kind of question expecting to be asked to say this at some point. I was in control but my fight or flight system wanted to take over.

 

The therapist made suggestions that my wife try having sex and taking some risks but I think she is moving too fast for the wife who told her how that wasn’t happening anytime soon if ever again. We discussed some hugs we had had since the previous session but my wife said she was just doing it for me, not her. Therapist says that can happen for a while then shift to being nice for both.

 

I think the therapist is not expecting much at this point but we made another appointment and like I said, we had a decent date. I was even able to kiss her once even though lots of alcohol was involved. She wasn’t evasive or unfriendly all night. She has since thanked me for taking her out and said she had a good time more than once. There is a feeling of happiness that we went out stained with, why hadn’t we done this kind of thing a lot in the past? (My social anxieties were at work, a major part of why we are in this place).

 

With every positive step forward there is a step backwards that can be taken and this will take a very little help time to heal, if it’s possible.

 

If I gauge my wife’s feelings today, I would say she has softened a little bit. I have upped my game of being a better listener, housekeeper, cook, father, partner, dresser, gotten more independent and in better physical shape, I’m going to therapy for myself, reading a bunch of psychology, and I have not given up. She can see all that and I think if I keep doing all this for the next year I will either win her back or I won’t feel like she deserves me if she doesn’t. Either way, I am going to have a better life going forward.

 

She has a business trip for a while so there will be few updates, I plan to keep contact to a minimum, just pics of kids. Sort of a no contact thing, but nothing evasive, I just think we could use a break.

 

It’s a long road, I am sorry so many of us find ourselves on it.

[GinON]

I was alot more like Grey when we initially got together and yes, my wife is hot and I am very much into her. I went from a masculine, alpha guy to a shard of a man which is discussed enough in this thread. The avoidant attachment style fits me here, and my outward confidence faded as our lives changed and her anxious personality became stronger. Knowing these things, (coming out of my cave) is a big help.

 

You have nailed it with the not making her feel attractive and not acting like I really wanted her. That is why she is mad/hurt and why she thought I was totally uninterested, triggering her anxiety.

 

Acting in a sure manner: You can't act this, it has to be real, which is what you meant, I'm sure. That takes me addressing things that happened in my childhood which is a whole different thread in a different forum, if I wanted to discuss that. I am dealing with it though. Its a lot of work, but I am a happier man for it.

 

 

Okay, thanks for describing your session. Now, I can put Fifty Shades into perspective. Let me ask you this: Are YOU attracted to your wife? Do YOU want to be physically intimate with her? If yes, you can’t be doing it in a half-a$$ed manner; you have to act in a very sure manner; your wife loves to feel desired by you; the reason she found you unattractive was that you didn’t act like you really wanted her; you were so afraid she might have a negative reaction, and that became self-fulfilling. Are you one of those guys who had to ask if it’s okay to hold her hand or to kiss her when you first started dating? As much as Fifty Shades is a bad movie, there’s perhaps small things you can learn from it (forget about the sex scenes for now). Just observe how Grey interacted with Ana in the first installment.

[JuneL]

Why were you not affected by your childhood issues when you first got together? Why didn’t you have anxiety and avoidance then?

 

Personally, I don’t believe you were a lit like Grey when you initially got together.

 

I was alot more like Grey when we initially got together and yes, my wife is hot and I am very much into her. I went from a masculine, alpha guy to a shard of a man which is discussed enough in this thread. The avoidant attachment style fits me here, and my outward confidence faded as our lives changed and her anxious personality became stronger. Knowing these things, (coming out of my cave) is a big help.

 

You have nailed it with the not making her feel attractive and not acting like I really wanted her. That is why she is mad/hurt and why she thought I was totally uninterested, triggering her anxiety.

 

Acting in a sure manner: You can't act this, it has to be real, which is what you meant, I'm sure. That takes me addressing things that happened in my childhood which is a whole different thread in a different forum, if I wanted to discuss that. I am dealing with it though. Its a lot of work, but I am a happier man for it.

[GinON]

Why were you not affected by your childhood issues when you first got together? Why didn’t you have anxiety and avoidance then?

 

Personally, I don’t believe you were a lit like Grey when you initially got together.

 

OK, well, Avoidants can come off as very independent people, and I was. I owned my own home, renovating it alone, had a decent car, had a job I loved. I was my own person and did not need a partner. I was pursuing multiple women at the time, which I had never done before but I was doing well emotionally and felt great.

On our first date, I was very direct and basically made her do what I wanted (without abuse or chains...) I wasn't rich by any means, no contracts or special kinky rooms, but I was in charge of the situation. At some point in the next few weeks I told her I wasnt a romantic passionate person, knowing that about myself from previous partners. I said if she didn't like me the way I was she should leave and she remembers that. Where I dont come off as Grey is when he leaves his neurosis behind and turns all romantic in the end.... which is a fairy tail...and why its so popular. She was the one that broke through his neurosis, she cured him of his inability or lack of desire for love by being strong and sure of herself. ya...ok:rolleyes:

 

The thing about childhood issues, and avoidants as I understand them/us is that we hide our insecurities behind independence. We don't expose ourselves because we trust no one and have to do everything ourselves. It makes us look like we are so capable, but get under our skin in a year or two and start shaming us for not meeting your needs and we start to recoil the same way we did when our needs weren't met as kids. Once I lost my career and means to feel successful, I fell flat on my face without a deep emotional security to keep me upright. That's what I have to build for myself, no one else can do that for me, but I will need help from many people and places. Therapy, friends, athletics, a career, being an awesome dad, youtube , and even you guys.

 

Maybe that helps, not sure.

Edited September 11, 2018 by GinON

[vla1120]

OK, well, Avoidants can come off as very independent people.....The thing about childhood issues, and avoidants as I understand them/us is that we hide our insecurities behind independence. We don't expose ourselves because we trust no one and have to do everything ourselves. It makes us look like we are so capable, but get under our skin in a year or two and start shaming us for not meeting your needs and we start to recoil the same way we did when our needs weren't met as kids.

 

Holy guacamole! I think you just struck a raw nerve with me. That would explain how I (someone who prides myself in being a strong, independent woman) allowed someone to control and manipulate me to the extent that I barely recognize myself when I look in the mirror, now. Even though I try very hard to keep my composure and not show any flaws or cracks in the armor, I am a hot mess, lately. I question everything, every thought, every decision I make, etc. I tend to over analyze anyways, but now, it's gotten to monstrous proportions.

 

Your journey has been a long, difficult one, my friend. I do suspect that down the road, your wife is either going to fall back in love with you, or you're going to love yourself enough not to need her to fall in love with you. You inspire me!

[JuneL]

Seriously, if you can freeze in front of your wife like a small kid freezing in front of the stern school principal, it’s hard for your wife not to know you have some serious unsolved psychological issues. Has she ever suggested individual therapy? It’s extremely insensitive of her to just be bitter and blame you for everything.

 

Regarding Fifty Shades, I’d suggest only the first installment minus the sex scenes. I have to shamefully admit that I watched all 3 (I know!). The part about Grey’s falling in love with Ana was super puzzling and unconvincing; the sex scenes were boring (yeah Grey had a nice body). When Grey did something to Ana (again, not the sex part), he never had to ask if it’s okay with her; yet because he’s very sure of himself, Ana would find him irresistible and go along with it.

 

OK, well, Avoidants can come off as very independent people, and I was. I owned my own home, renovating it alone, had a decent car, had a job I loved. I was my own person and did not need a partner. I was pursuing multiple women at the time, which I had never done before but I was doing well emotionally and felt great.

On our first date, I was very direct and basically made her do what I wanted (without abuse or chains...) I wasn't rich by any means, no contracts or special kinky rooms, but I was in charge of the situation. At some point in the next few weeks I told her I wasnt a romantic passionate person, knowing that about myself from previous partners. I said if she didn't like me the way I was she should leave and she remembers that. Where I dont come off as Grey is when he leaves his neurosis behind and turns all romantic in the end.... which is a fairy tail...and why its so popular. She was the one that broke through his neurosis, she cured him of his inability or lack of desire for love by being strong and sure of herself. ya...ok:rolleyes:

 

The thing about childhood issues, and avoidants as I understand them/us is that we hide our insecurities behind independence. We don't expose ourselves because we trust no one and have to do everything ourselves. It makes us look like we are so capable, but get under our skin in a year or two and start shaming us for not meeting your needs and we start to recoil the same way we did when our needs weren't met as kids. Once I lost my career and means to feel successful, I fell flat on my face without a deep emotional security to keep me upright. That's what I have to build for myself, no one else can do that for me, but I will need help from many people and places. Therapy, friends, athletics, a career, being an awesome dad, youtube , and even you guys.

 

Maybe that helps, not sure.

[GinON]

Seriously, if you can freeze in front of your wife like a small kid freezing in front of the stern school principal, it’s hard for your wife not to know you have some serious unsolved psychological issues. Has she ever suggested individual therapy? It’s extremely insensitive of her to just be bitter and blame you for everything.

 

She did about 10 yrs ago, I went for a while but was not seeing the problem and quit too early. I finally saw the problem 6 months ago and hit the therapy pretty hard since.

 

It is insensitive, but she also has issues that I can now see. She doesn't know how to ask for what she wants without being angry and projecting her frustration from her own childhood. Her folks were MIA and an older sibling was taking their place. She never got what she asked for and wants me to be that provider that is somehow clairvoyant . She will sometimes get upset at things I did without any prior expressed desires. This of course made me want to do nothing at all, which is what happened.

I have spoken to her about that several times in the past, not knowing all the psychological issues behind it at the time. SHe would basically say other partners knew what to do.... That went over well...

 

She has trouble just saying, "I like it when you do this." Its usually comes off as, "I don't like that." with no further clarification. This is a tough mix for a person with confidence issues.

 

Imagine having sex and afterwards your partner is silent and you are trying to improve your game. If they are not happy and want something different but wont tell you and seem unhappy its not going to help either of you. One partner is afraid of saying anything that might make you want to leave and the other is afraid of asking because they dont want to feel ashamed...a recipe for: posting a thread here;).

 

There is a way out of this though, at least for me. If she gets over her anger, its possible she will come out stronger as well.

 

I feel like I am putting a lot of blame on her here when I hold more responsibility for this situation. I wasn't aware of all the negative stuff I was doing but I am now and it no fun knowing you've been a jerk...

Edited September 13, 2018 by GinON

[JuneL]

Is your wife like that to your kids? Never teach them what to do, but get upset when they don’t do according to her way??

 

She did about 10 yrs ago, I went for a while but was not seeing the problem and quit too early. I finally saw the problem 6 months ago and hit the therapy pretty hard since.

 

It is insensitive, but she also has issues that I can now see. She doesn't know how to ask for what she wants without being angry and projecting her frustration from her own childhood. Her folks were MIA and an older sibling was taking their place. She never got what she asked for and wants me to be that provider that is somehow clairvoyant . She will sometimes get upset at things I did without any prior expressed desires. This of course made me want to do nothing at all, which is what happened.

I have spoken to her about that several times in the past, not knowing all the psychological issues behind it at the time. SHe would basically say other partners knew what to do.... That went over well...

 

She has trouble just saying, "I like it when you do this." Its usually comes off as, "I don't like that." with no further clarification. This is a tough mix for a person with confidence issues.

 

Imagine having sex and afterwards your partner is silent and you are trying to improve your game. If they are not happy and want something different but wont tell you and seem unhappy its not going to help either of you. One partner is afraid of saying anything that might make you want to leave and the other is afraid of asking because they dont want to feel ashamed...a recipe for: posting a thread here;).

 

There is a way out of this though, at least for me. If she gets over her anger, its possible she will come out stronger as well.

 

I feel like I am putting a lot of blame on her here when I hold more responsibility for this situation. I wasn't aware of all the negative stuff I was doing but I am now and it no fun knowing you've been a jerk...

[GinON]

Is your wife like that to your kids? Never teach them what to do, but get upset when they don’t do according to her way??

 

That is a good question, but we are very communicative with each other about raising the kids and are on the same page with it. We are changing that a bit recently because we both put too much emphasis on them, sacrificing ourselves as individuals and as a couple. I think that is somewhat natural, but we need to step back a bit and give each other time to be individuals and eventually, if things go well, a couple again.

 

I dont know the answer to your question, but I will watch for it.

[S2B]

If she can't simply ask for what she wants or express pleasure when you do something she likes/express displeasure (kindly) when it's something she doesn't like - then that problem is SOLEY on HER.

 

As a grown woman something is terribly wrong if we don't decide what makes us happy AND express specifically what that is!

 

You are NO mind reader - and it's cruel and unfair for her to think you should magically know!

 

Sit her down and say that she needs to give you a specific list of what and how she likes/prefers her sex with you! IF she can't say it out loud ? Then she definitely should be capable of writing it down for you!!

 

A list of "do this" and "don't do this" is vital and necessary in your situation.

 

If she won't - then you can tell her she is giving you no way to please her... and you intend to quit trying.

[GinON]

I appreciate the ideas and the support. I hope I get a chance to work on that with her someday. It would be a pointless exercise the way things are now.

 

She has been out of town for 10 days and comes home tomorrow and I am wondering how her time to herself has affected her.

 

In doing my work on myself, I figured out some important stuff and keep feeling better, but PRW was right early in this thread, its going to take a while to really improve myself.

 

I figured out that I have always, as soon as I got into a any relationship, dumped my self worth "fuel tank", handed it to the other person and said, "Fill that up, I need you to make me whole and happy." It turns out, our engines dont run on other people's fuel, its like trying to run diesel in a gasoline engine...it doesn't work. I love metaphors btw

 

I've made a list of what I want in life, and a list of work to do to take ownership of own self worth. When I get that back, or at least half way back, I can consider being in a relationship but right now, I actually am glad that we will have a lot of time apart over the next few months. I need it to detach myself or fill up my own tank without trying to filter the fuel through my perceptions of what will make her happy. (metaphors! ) I have been reading Co-dependent No More because my therapist said to, but I think I am the dependent and she is the co-dependent. Its a good book, and I am starting to think that any self help book works, as long as you are doing the work in your head and your honest with yourself.

Next author I plan to read is Brene Brown who deals with shame and self compassion.

 

In terms of pleasing her, your comment makes me wonder if I was frustrated by not knowing how to please her. I just flailed and threw myself at anything to make her a little bit happy even if I made myself miserable doing it.

 

If things do get better I will demand (in a kind way) that she learn how to tell me what she likes, she has no problem telling me what she doesn't like.

 

 

If she can't simply ask for what she wants or express pleasure when you do something she likes/express displeasure (kindly) when it's something she doesn't like - then that problem is SOLEY on HER.

 

As a grown woman something is terribly wrong if we don't decide what makes us happy AND express specifically what that is!

 

You are NO mind reader - and it's cruel and unfair for her to think you should magically know!

 

Sit her down and say that she needs to give you a specific list of what and how she likes/prefers her sex with you! IF she can't say it out loud ? Then she definitely should be capable of writing it down for you!!

 

A list of "do this" and "don't do this" is vital and necessary in your situation.

 

If she won't - then you can tell her she is giving you no way to please her... and you intend to quit trying.

[JuneL]

Since you like metaphors, here you go:

She’s playing the traditional Chinese father role to you And that’s why you became so scared at making tiny mistakes and became just an avoidant.

That’s why I asked if she’s like that to your kids (and colleagues too). It might turn out to be a good thing that you’re the primary carer to your kids.

 

I appreciate the ideas and the support. I hope I get a chance to work on that with her someday. It would be a pointless exercise the way things are now.

 

She has been out of town for 10 days and comes home tomorrow and I am wondering how her time to herself has affected her.

 

In doing my work on myself, I figured out some important stuff and keep feeling better, but PRW was right early in this thread, its going to take a while to really improve myself.

 

I figured out that I have always, as soon as I got into a any relationship, dumped my self worth "fuel tank", handed it to the other person and said, "Fill that up, I need you to make me whole and happy." It turns out, our engines dont run on other people's fuel, its like trying to run diesel in a gasoline engine...it doesn't work. I love metaphors btw

 

I've made a list of what I want in life, and a list of work to do to take ownership of own self worth. When I get that back, or at least half way back, I can consider being in a relationship but right now, I actually am glad that we will have a lot of time apart over the next few months. I need it to detach myself or fill up my own tank without trying to filter the fuel through my perceptions of what will make her happy. (metaphors! ) I have been reading Co-dependent No More because my therapist said to, but I think I am the dependent and she is the co-dependent. Its a good book, and I am starting to think that any self help book works, as long as you are doing the work in your head and your honest with yourself.

Next author I plan to read is Brene Brown who deals with shame and self compassion.

 

In terms of pleasing her, your comment makes me wonder if I was frustrated by not knowing how to please her. I just flailed and threw myself at anything to make her a little bit happy even if I made myself miserable doing it.

 

If things do get better I will demand (in a kind way) that she learn how to tell me what she likes, she has no problem telling me what she doesn't like.

[PRW]

In doing my work on myself, I figured out some important stuff and keep feeling better, but PRW was right early in this thread, its going to take a while to really improve myself.

I still monitor the thread, but haven't been active in it. I guess I pretty much said "my piece" and there isn't anything else to say. I'm just watching to see how it plays out.

[S2B]

Nothing changes when nothing changes.

 

Change only needs to come from you. When YOU start changing things by taking ACTION - others are forced to change too.

 

Reading any book is fine - but if you don't take actionnothing changes.

 

 

Start today DOING things completely different than before!

 

Take charge! Take charge of YOUR life! Stop focusing on her - focus on being a man/being YOU!

 

 

State what you want - what you need. State what you're not willing to live with! If she doesn't want to participate to make you happy - then you have your answer much more quickly.

 

Don't bend to accommodate her nonsense... you have proof that's not helping the marriage. You tell her things are a changing and if she's not on board she can leave anytime.

 

Draw that hard line and stick to it.

 

You deserve to make things different.

 

Don't be surprised if she eliminates herself by her selfishness. Just keep moving forward with strength to make sure it doesn't stay the same as it is now.

 

Get busy with ACTION!

[GinON]

Nothing changes when nothing changes.

 

Change only needs to come from you. When YOU start changing things by taking ACTION - others are forced to change too.

 

Reading any book is fine - but if you don't take actionnothing changes.

 

 

Start today DOING things completely different than before!

 

Take charge! Take charge of YOUR life! Stop focusing on her - focus on being a man/being YOU!

 

 

State what you want - what you need. State what you're not willing to live with! If she doesn't want to participate to make you happy - then you have your answer much more quickly.

 

Don't bend to accommodate her nonsense... you have proof that's not helping the marriage. You tell her things are a changing and if she's not on board she can leave anytime.

 

Draw that hard line and stick to it.

 

You deserve to make things different.

 

Don't be surprised if she eliminates herself by her selfishness. Just keep moving forward with strength to make sure it doesn't stay the same as it is now.

 

Get busy with ACTION!

 

Yep, action also takes changing your core mindset sometimes and I have proof today that I have. I picked her up after a business trip and I was able to keep control of my self emotionally. A lot of what I have been reading stuck and I was able to stay completely out of my reptilian brain. Usually I freeze and talk away too much. I just listened to her and she apologized for some of her unrealistic expectations that she has had, put the blame squarely on both of us in a fair way. I was in control of my thoughts and felt great!

We are going out this weekend and I think I surprised her a little by having that already lined up. I am staying a mystery and keeping my interest below hers. iI am not needy or begging.

 

I get what your saying about drawing a line, that may come later. Right now I want to get my **** together to wheee this feels much more natural.

[GinON]

Well Saturday was a flop, she seemed happy to go out, told me she was impressed that I wanted to take her to her favorite bar and a cool restaurant she had been wanting to try. (I have never done this kind of thing before) During they day we had a really fun family outing so I thought I was making progress and at this point I am feeling worth a crap as a human. The problem was that she was too tired to finish the date and had been drinking during the day more than I thought. She hadn’t been drinking at all for a couple weeks. But last night she told me she figured out why she was getting drunk when when we were going out is because she was just not comfortable and couldn’t deal with being alone with me sober.

She said she feels like all my improvements will be good for someone else but the way she said it was like she is upset with herself for not being able to get out of her own rut.

 

At first this made me very sad but with a couple other things she has said and done last week that I would classify as “taking care of herself “ I am hoping what is happening is that she is moving past anger and into a new stage of growth for herself. She will never be happy if she is just angry with herself and me, and she is finally being a little introspective.

 

I have been giving her as much space as possible and never press our issues discuss our relationship with her. This lines up with the Corey Wayne and Craig Kenneth’s coaching vids, btw. I am still focusing on keeping my center and making progress on a job opportunity.

 

Thanks for reading.

[bathtub-row]

Let me just say this. If I were in your shoes, I’d consider the relationship over, I’d go out and get a job, stop catering to her or proving you’ve changed, and make plans to keep custody of your kids by consulting with a lawyer. Enough is enough. Perhaps by you backing off completely, she may come to realize what she has. That’s probably your only shot left.

 

It’s time to make plans because she’s very likely to drop a bomb on you any day. I’d suggest that you be prepared to carry on with your life. I’ll tell you exactly what I tell women who stay home and depend on their spouse — it’s a huge risk. And I’m sure you can now see why. Why people delude themselves into thinking that relationships are solid is beyond me. They aren’t. It’s a fact of life that very few seem to want to acknowledge. But you put yourself in a very vulnerable position and now you must climb out of it - and hopefully never go there again. I hope things work out but even if they do, you need to change your life.

[JuneL]

Is her drinking problem affecting your kids? It’s very irresponsible for a mother to get drunk. Are you close to your folks? Given her drinking problem, her tendency to get upset with the outcome without first saying what she wants, as well as her work schedule, you’ll probably have close to 100% custody. You need to figure a way to do this while getting back to work.

[GinON]

Let me just say this. If I were in your shoes, I’d consider the relationship over, I’d go out and get a job, stop catering to her or proving you’ve changed, and make plans to keep custody of your kids by consulting with a lawyer. Enough is enough. Perhaps by you backing off completely, she may come to realize what she has. That’s probably your only shot left.

 

It’s time to make plans because she’s very likely to drop a bomb on you any day. I’d suggest that you be prepared to carry on with your life. I’ll tell you exactly what I tell women who stay home and depend on their spouse — it’s a huge risk. And I’m sure you can now see why. Why people delude themselves into thinking that relationships are solid is beyond me. They aren’t. It’s a fact of life that very few seem to want to acknowledge. But you put yourself in a very vulnerable position and now you must climb out of it - and hopefully never go there again. I hope things work out but even if they do, you need to change your life.

I think you are right on most counts, especially about this being my last chance. I am not sure she is working on the bomb to drop, I really think she is holding on to status quo till the spring after a long trip she has to take over XMAS. I think the pressure is getting to her and she could drop the bomb without enough preparation. It wont be fun either way.

Is her drinking problem affecting your kids? It’s very irresponsible for a mother to get drunk. Are you close to your folks? Given her drinking problem, her tendency to get upset with the outcome without first saying what she wants, as well as her work schedule, you’ll probably have close to 100% custody. You need to figure a way to do this while getting back to work.

The new job I am looking at is a high demand, freelance position that would give me the flexibility I will need either as a single dad or with her work schedule. Win Win.

Her drinking has no affect that I can see on the kids and is probably more her coping with our relationship right now. But it could go downhill from here if she doesn't knock it off. She said she will just stick to 2 drinks from now on when we are out and I think that she is kind of ashamed of herself for not being emotionally strong enough to stand up to me or us or whatever scares her. My therapist suggested I ask her what she is afraid of in being alone with me sober. I wish I thought of that on the spot...I got a ways to go to be James Bond.

 

I love all of your insights, people. Thanks!