masculine and feminine, dominant and submissive

[Woggle]

It is not about alpha and beta. It's about the fact that respect is a huge part of attraction for both genders and people generally don't respect those who don't respect themselves. A lot of men these days think that twisting themselves into pretzels in order to please what male bashers think men should be is the answer but the male bashers will never be pleased. I have seen men do everything except literally castrating themselves and they still get crap and have to deal with a resentful woman who says it is not enough. That is because these men have no respect for themselves.

 

Somebody with respect for themselves wouldn't pick such a woman in the first place and they get out if she becomes like that. Chest beating alpha and self flagellating doormat are not the only two options. If men would just get some self respect, stop apologizing for their masculinity and calling it toxic and know how we deserve to be treated then we would do just fine. We don't have to dominate anybody or be dominated ourselves.

[mortensorchid]

I wish I had an answer for you as to what the perfect balance is or is not, but I struggle with these issues myself.

 

I am a dominant female. I am used to taking the lead and being a swashbuckling loner at times (quite a long story which I think stems from my experiences in junior high school - In a nutshell, what happened was this: There were 8 girls in my class. Four of them were "the cool ones" and the other three were very immature. I wanted to be with the cool ones, but they kind of ousted me, and I didn't really fit in with the other three because they were so immature we had nothing in common. They went out and did things and I was not included in it because I was "weird". So I became the swashbuckling loner without girlfriends. I still am today, but for separate issues and for other reasons.) I often times have found myself making a group of friends and for a variety of reasons we drift over time, I find myself spending a lot of alone time once again, and I am the loner once again. I am not blaming one person for this, it's just how it is. And if you think it's going to get better by changing groups or jobs or whatever else, you have another thing coming. But I have been abused by so many that I have adopted extreme introversion and never talk about myself to others unless necessary now, but that's also another thread.

 

I am now used to going out by myself, doing things by myself, and being in control of things. If I can't find someone to go to an event with, I go by myself. If and when I have a man with me, I think he bows and says "you take over" and I do. And he does that a lot of the time and he ends up resenting me because he doesn't have a say in things. Then when I ask him "What do you want?" he says he doesn't know or rejects my offers to be submissive to him. So you can't win, can you?

[anduina]

My relationships are ones of equals with mutual respect. I'm not attracted to dominant men since they expect women to stroke their oversensitive egos.

[fromheart]

I'll probably annoy yet more people with this...

 

Femininity is misinterpreted with weakness in the west, which is obviously untrue. However the new age of strong women have adopted masculine traits, in effect becoming what they resented.

 

After a while they feel that they have a problem, but don't know what. What usually happens is that they then feminize the men around them. Men in a feminine state are not in their natural state and it weakens them. However, it gets them laid in the short term, and fulfills their lack of self esteem and neediness. The overtly masculine women then kick the asses of the feminized men.

 

All that's left for the masculine women to choose from are the a-hole men who treat them like dirt, but force them into a painful feminine state. Its not the feminine state they want, but it gives them a pain addiction that provides glimpses of the missing feminine they long for. Which is why bad boys get the girls. Obviously, this is not good either.

 

Be a masculine, strong man and be a good man also. Learn to walk away from women who are rude, aggressive and dysfunctional. Walking away and meaning it, is one of the most powerful things you can do.

 

Have a high value in yourself, and know that being single is far better than being with someone who hasn't discovered themselves.

[somanymistakes]

I'll probably annoy yet more people with this...

 

Mostly only because you state it as fact, when it's a bunch of rambly theory which is obviously not true in all cases.

 

Femininity is misinterpreted with weakness in the west, which is obviously untrue.

 

Well, there's partly a problem that people have trouble agreeing on what femininity means. However, to the degree that it is a natural counterpart, it should not be considered weaker, lesser, unimportant, or wrong, only different.

 

In older times, labor was often divided by gender. Both roles were absolutely necessary. If you had only men, things would not get done. If you had only women, things would not get done. Neither could look after themselves alone. A wife, a household manager, was an essential part of the household. If you had no wife you might have to rely on a sister or a mother. If you had no woman at all you'd probably just starve!

 

Times have changed. Society is a lot more selfish now. You'll see many people who do not feel that they are part of a family unit that works together... they feel that they are a Breadwinner and therefore the OWNER. By putting all the value on their job and their income, they devalue the role of the household manager. They complain that they should not be expected to give THEIR MONEY to a spouse.

 

Is it any wonder that it becomes somewhat unappealing to be in that weakened, devalued role?

 

However the new age of strong women have adopted masculine traits, in effect becoming what they resented.

 

Yes and no. Many women have taken on more masculine traits. However, in most cases, it was not the masculine traits they resented, but the restrictions that were being placed upon women. Being prevented from having an education, voting, leaving the house, etc.

 

If a woman broke out of those restrictions and got an education, has she "become what she resented"? It was the restriction she resented, not the simple fact that men were allowed to study.

 

After a while they feel that they have a problem, but don't know what. What usually happens is that they then feminize the men around them.

 

At this point you are simply making things up with no evidence.

 

How would that even work? Do women with educations emit magical man-weakening rays, causing the men nearby to shrivel up?

 

Or are you getting into one of the "estrogen in the milk is poisoning us all" conspiracy theories?

 

Men in a feminine state are not in their natural state and it weakens them.

 

Wait, wait, I thought you were trying to say that we shouldn't associate femininity with weakness? Why are you doing it here then?

 

Sure, you say it's because it's "not their natural state". Then why would the women not be similarly weakened by being "not in their natural state"?

 

Your logic does not hold.

 

However, it gets them laid in the short term, and fulfills their lack of self esteem and neediness. The overtly masculine women then kick the asses of the feminized men.

 

Your argument is now that men behaving in a more feminine way gets them laid, and that this is bad because... why?

 

All that's left for the masculine women to choose from are the a-hole men who treat them like dirt

 

How does this logically follow from your previous statement?

 

You claimed that strong women seek out and have sex with your supposedly feminised men. Then, with no in-between, you claim that "all that's left" is for them to choose from jerks.

 

Why? How?

 

There's a lot of steps missing here!

 

but force them into a painful feminine state. Its not the feminine state they want, but it gives them a pain addiction that provides glimpses of the missing feminine they long for.

 

So, women have sex with 'feminine' men. Then, for no obvious reason, they seek out jerks and forcibly feminise them as well?

 

Which is why bad boys get the girls. Obviously, this is not good either.

 

Well, it's also obviously not true.

 

I know I've gotten a bit wordy. Alas, one can't always expect a man to respond to logic and reason.

[thefooloftheyear]

Just keep your pimp hand strong and things will go your way.....

 

TFY

[Mike800]

I think everyone has a little of both to varying degrees.

 

I never understood the gender thing where a man automatically makes all the decisions because he’s a man.

 

People have different strengths so who leads should change based on the issue.

 

If the women’s more knowledgeable then the guy on a subject the guy should still make the decision because he’s a guy? Makes no sense to me.

 

An adult blindly following and being led on everything by another adult always seemed weird to me and more like a adult/child relationship then a romantic one

[fromheart]

Mostly only because you state it as fact, when it's a bunch of rambly theory which is obviously not true in all cases.<snip>

 

I know I've gotten a bit wordy. Alas, one can't always expect a man to respond to logic and reason.

 

 

Your not really understanding what I'm saying. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Edited August 29, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote