Men, what's the best way for a woman to let you know she's interested?

[BluBell]

I'm asking this because lately it seems that lots of men feel that women should take the drivers' seat in dating since we are "liberated" now (no, we're not, but that's another debate). I don't know what has changed, but it used to be pretty simple for me to let a guy know I was interested.

 

Ten years ago, all I needed to do was smile and say, "Hi, my name is Blue" and then he'd take it from there. Now if I talk to a man in public, he acts like I'm a stalker.

 

I've read on here how many guys are frustrated with never getting responses in online dating, and have said that women should make the first move online too.

Whenever I do that, I never hear back from the guy, ever.

 

Logically I've thought- maybe I'm just not as attractive as I was ten years ago. But lots of guys do still think I'm attractive- just never the ones I'm interested in.

 

All in all, what I'm wondering if there's something wrong with my approach in general, or if the men I like are turned off by being approached?

 

The other possibility is just that the men I like don't like me, which is obviously just something I need to accept. Or lower my standards, I suppose. Most women I know who are married ended up lowering their standards and admit to it.

[central]

These days, men are damned if they make a move on you, and damned if they don't. Of course, making a move should be respectful, but men are always considered to be at fault if their advances are unwelcome.

 

Anyway, the old joke may provide the answer to showing you're interested: Show up naked. And bring beer.

[Blanco]

I'm pretty oblivious to clues, but generally, if she starts having sex with me I then feel pretty certain she's into me.

[BluBell]

Noted. But I'm talking about all the stuff that happens before sex.

That part I have covered

[Marc878]

Being a good listener. However, you do have to converse.

 

Example: tell me more about your hobby, etc?

 

If you can generate conversation it's a good start. It can be anything, food, movies, books, etc.

 

Hints like: I don't know what you have on but that cologne is really great.

 

Men can be kinda dumb so you have to draw them out.

 

If it's not there then you'll know

[Blanco]

Noted. But I'm talking about all the stuff that happens before sex.

That part I have covered

 

Honestly, physical contact. I don't mean anything even sexual, but something like a hand on my shoulder/arm if I say something that makes her laugh. Obviously this isn't always going to mean interest, but it's something I've often noticed if/when someone is at all interested.

[Blanco]

Being a good listener. However, you do have to converse.

 

Example: tell me more about your hobby, etc?

 

If you can generate conversation it's a good start. It can be anything, food, movies, books, etc.

 

Hints like: I don't know what you have on but that cologne is really great.

 

Men can be kinda dumb so you have to draw them out.

 

If it's not there then you'll know

 

This is a good point. I don't automatically think someone asking me questions or wanting me to expand on an interest of mine means they're getting all hot and bothered. But again, I find it's a pretty good indicator in a lot of cases. I remember going on a date years ago where I don't think she asked me a single thing about myself or even faked interest in most of what I had to say. Even I could see that this was a one and out situation.

[Marc878]

This is a good point. I don't automatically think someone asking me questions or wanting me to expand on an interest of mine means they're getting all hot and bothered. But again, I find it's a pretty good indicator in a lot of cases. I remember going on a date years ago where I don't think she asked me a single thing about myself or even faked interest in most of what I had to say. Even I could see that this was a one and out situation.

 

You are correct. It's a good indicator. If you are looking for a relationship communication is the key.

[Woggle]

Just let them know you are interested. Come right out and say it.

[BluBell]

You guys make this sound easier than it is. But if that's the case- there is no wrong way to let a guy know you're interested- then my answer is that all the guys I like have no interest in me.

[alphamale]

I'm pretty oblivious to clues, but generally, if she starts having sex with me I then feel pretty certain she's into me.

 

:lmao:

[Marc878]

You guys make this sound easier than it is. But if that's the case- there is no wrong way to let a guy know you're interested- then my answer is that all the guys I like have no interest in me.

 

Maybe they aren't worth having anyway

[salparadise]

A new study published this month concludes that most people dating online are aiming twenty-five percent above their heads in terms of market equity. It's an interesting study and confirms a few things I have suspected for a long time.

 

An article by Christian Rudder, Harvard mathematician and founder of OKC, included in his book Dataclism found that women consider eighty percent of men to be below average based on how they rate photographs. Men's ratings of women's photos are more distributed (men still message women above their level).

 

Women seem to have an all or nothing mentality. Just as you used the phrase "lower your standards" in a context that it implies an undesirable compromise, women seem to be instilled with the belief that if they hold out long enough they will eventually be woo'd by the prince they deserve. It's a matter of honor. Thank the genius of Walt for that!

 

How do you communicate that you're interested...

• Don't be afraid to message first
  
• Respond in a friendly, timely manner
  
• Pay him a few compliments
  
• Express appreciation
  
• Show enthusiasm and good energy
  
• Kiss him like you mean it
  

 

*Do not use the phrase "friends first" if you want a guy to hang around longer than it takes to type it.

[BluBell]

A new study published this month concludes that most people dating online are aiming twenty-five percent above their heads in terms of market equity. It's an interesting study and confirms a few things I have suspected for a long time.

 

An article by Christian Rudder, Harvard mathematician and founder of OKC, included in his book Dataclism found that women consider eighty percent of men to be below average based on how they rate photographs. Men's ratings of women's photos are more distributed (men still message women above their level).

 

Women seem to have an all or nothing mentality. Just as you used the phrase "lower your standards" in a context that it implies an undesirable compromise, women seem to be instilled with the belief that if they hold out long enough they will eventually be woo'd by the prince they deserve. It's a matter of honor. Thank the genius of Walt for that!

 

How do you communicate that you're interested...

• Don't be afraid to message first
  
• Respond in a friendly, timely manner
  
• Pay him a few compliments
  
• Express appreciation
  
• Show enthusiasm and good energy
  
• Kiss him like you mean it
  

 

*Do not use the phrase "friends first" if you want a guy to hang around longer than it takes to type it.

 

Well, I love statistics- I really do. Studied it in graduate school and can't help but have an analytical perspective towards lots of situations in life (what's the most efficient way to get through the grocery store?). But studies like this are truly killing romance and relationships along with it.

 

Who is to say what is "below average" to begin with? We all have different means for evaluating a potential partner. Online dating itself is problematic because people misrepresent who they truly are, and we all are conditioned to judging each other based on arbitrary categories. Once you acknowledge that we can't reasonably- scientifically- even determine a baseline "average" man or woman, then the whole notion of ranking those who are above or below average is moot.

 

For example- 5 years ago I'd dismiss any guy who was divorced with children, regardless of how good looking they were. Today, I'm more inclined to dismiss a guy who has no college education. I consider the context of their photos moreso than their looks alone- is he taking bathroom mirror selfies? Does he have all professional head shots? Lots of photos of a car or motorcycle or otherwise look like someone with childish hobbies? Did he write complete sentences in his profile, and say something remotely meaningful or interesting?

 

My original post isn't meant to just be about online dating- I do approach men in public, too. But the world of online dating is a problem because we are all judging each other before we even know each other. Men and women are guilty of that. As for lowering my standards....I don't see how that's zero sum. If I wind up in a happy relationship because I lowered my standards, then that's winning, isn't it?

[Mysterio]

For me The Great Mysterio. Be playful and flirtatious with me. Compliment me on my dress attire and talk Movies/Music with me.

 

I should pick up on it and take it from there.

[caveman621]

I've seen actual "how to flirt" classes advertised somewhere. Maybe it was many years ago though. Not really sure. My wife taught one in Chicago like 30 years ago I know. She said it was mostly women having some wine and laughing a lot, but, I dunno, maybe.

 

And, I think, if you show ANY kind of interest in a man and they are interested they will respond. Although in high school and up into my 20s I was painfully shy and, looking back, there were probably some "hints" dropped by women that I didn't pick up on or was just too afraid of rejection to act on. So, some of us men, you have to hit over the head with a club or something.

 

As far as online dating, yeah, context matters. Understand this is ALL personal preference on my part but, back when I was doing OLD, if she was all about going to the gym, or her photograph was her firing her AR15, or there was a confederate battle flag in the background........NOPE.

[stillafool]

One can flirt all they want but if the person they are flirting with isn't physically attracted to you it won't work. OP has said that the ones she likes don't like her back. I think you do need to lower your standards. We tell men this all the time here on LS but women need to heed the same advice.

[Shining One]

You guys make this sound easier than it is. But if that's the case- there is no wrong way to let a guy know you're interested- then my answer is that all the guys I like have no interest in me.

How many guys have you expressed interest in? For some of us, it takes a lot of expressing to find mutual interest. Including OLD, I'd say less than 3% of the women I expressed interest in responded in kind.

 

If you're going for "high tier" men who have tons of younger women throwing themselves at them, it's going to be an uphill battle. It's not unwinnable though. You'll just have to approach more of those men and expect a rather low positive response rate.

[d0nnivain]

I'm a woman but do what you did before that worked for you. Also initiate as appropriate. At the very least, you call, arrange the 3rd date & pay for it.

[carhill]

OP, reading this:

 

Ten years ago, all I needed to do was smile and say, "Hi, my name is Blue" and then he'd take it from there.

 

That reminds me of some of the women I've known, including personal friends, who were universally attractive. Single men, and married men, would flock to them. Any solicitations would get overwhelming response. They never were denied an interview. For those who got married, the pursuit continued after they were married. Men were always hitting on them.

 

For yourself, apparently, something changed. Demographic can be a big change, if you moved demographics. They vary everywhere. You could have changed so those interviews don't come as universally in the past. The social climate in general could have changed.

 

Now, to the guy thing.....

 

Presuming real life, not electrons, focus. I sense immediately whether or not a woman I meet in real life is focused on me. It's the first real sign of not being in the billions. Getting singled out. For myself, that's exceedingly rare. From women who turned out not to be married (married ones are relatively common IME), maybe one hand's worth in a lifetime.

 

Right behind that is active listening. One, remember my name and occasionally speak it. Two, remember and ask questions about things casually discussed in conversation about our personal lives, normal sharing during light, casual early meetings. Lean forward. Don't project the feeling that you really want to look at your phone to see who's liked you on Facebook. There's a man you're interested in right in front of you, right? Focus. That takes more than saying 'Hi, I'm Blu'.

 

Good luck!

[BluBell]

How many guys have you expressed interest in? For some of us, it takes a lot of expressing to find mutual interest. Including OLD, I'd say less than 3% of the women I expressed interest in responded in kind.

 

If you're going for "high tier" men who have tons of younger women throwing themselves at them, it's going to be an uphill battle. It's not unwinnable though. You'll just have to approach more of those men and expect a rather low positive response rate.

 

In real life, I've hit on a handful of men in the past year or so. Probably about the same amount online. I don't really think anyone is out of my league, but I do think- "I'm not his type". I don't really know what this "high tier" man looks like, truly. The majority of men I meet are pretty regular people.

 

The dates I do go on I'm usually never that excited about. I pretty much always lower standards to go out with someone and think- maybe he'll surprise me! And they never do. The last guy for example, was really attractive in his photos, but I could tell he was shallow and full of himself. And in person he was still attractive, but spent the entire date talking about how much money he has.

 

So then my question is for men- do YOU guys ever lower your standards? Because to hear all this frustration that women never respond to you, but you guys also don't respond to us when we express interest first...it's a little ironic.

And if the answer is no, men never lower their standards to go on a date, then why would we ask you out in the first place? It's so much easier to go back to the old standard of- if he's interested, he'll let you know.

[carhill]

So then my question is for men- do YOU guys ever lower your standards? Because to hear all this frustration that women never respond to you, but you guys also don't respond to us when we express interest first...it's a little ironic.

Can't speak for other guys but I got some harsh lessons in 'standards' at a young age, going to private school with the children of the wealthy. The girls didn't date boys whose families were below a certain standard and since I was a boy from a relatively worker class family that's how I viewed the dating milieu. Well, some girls did date across the boundary, the lure of the other side of the tracks I guess, but their parents quickly squashed that.

 

Being indoctrinated in and believing 'everyone is an equal, we're all God's children', that was quite a wake-up call. Still, the indoctrination was strong and so I soldiered on, asking any ladies out whom I found attractive personally. Dating and mating experiences, including whom I married, varied all over the place in appearance, profession/job, family, social/economic strata, whatever. No 'type' or 'standard' regarding those things. Compatibility at the personal level, sure.

 

Early experiences taught me dating and mating can be brutal, often discriminatory, and pretty much everything is fair, even when it's unfair.

 

Oh, also, if dealing with older men, showing sincere interest can be a bit more complex due to the totality of life experience. Sure, men vary but most men who've been unmarried for any length of time have dealt with a wide variety of women and have plenty of war stories about the fakers. Mine are mostly about married women. Other guys will have theirs. I tend to be skeptical whether interest is sincere or just one more attention hoover. That's part of why I don't date anymore. I believe good women should not be exposed to that kind of skepticism and pre-judgment.

[Shining One]

In real life, I've hit on a handful of men in the past year or so. Probably about the same amount online.

This is far too small a sample size to draw any conclusion from. I've been rejected (in person) by over a hundred women and did not receive responses from over a thousand on OLD.

I don't really think anyone is out of my league, but I do think- "I'm not his type". I don't really know what this "high tier" man looks like, truly.

Thinking about it more, "high tier" wasn't the best word choice. "In high demand" is probably better. It will be tougher to get the man who has dozens of women after him than the man who has none.

So then my question is for men- do YOU guys ever lower your standards? Because to hear all this frustration that women never respond to you, but you guys also don't respond to us when we express interest first...it's a little ironic.

Speaking for myself, I have changed my standards. When I first started, I was firmly against dating women with children. I'm now in a 4+ year relationship with a woman who has kids. I was firmly against women who weighed more than me. I've dated several women who fell into that category and had a relationship with one. I've also responded to every single woman who expressed interest in me.

[salparadise]

But studies like this are truly killing romance and relationships along with it.

 

How so? The data reflect the behavior, not the other way around. I think it's fascinating that we have such a large body of information on how men and women do the dance. It reveals a lot about dating-mating proclivities. You may not like it what it reveals, and you can certainly challenge the method of analysis, but we are talking about a huge number of samples over a decade or more.

 

Who is to say what is "below average" to begin with? We all have different means for evaluating a potential partner.

 

Well, that's sort of the point isn't it... that the perception of average is totally subjective, and that women judge eighty percent of men to be below that threshold for whatever reason. It's all baked into the results.

 

The second part of that interesting

 

Online dating itself is problematic because people misrepresent who they truly are, and we all are conditioned to judging each other based on arbitrary categories. Once you acknowledge that we can't reasonably- scientifically- even determine a baseline "average" man or woman, then the whole notion of ranking those who are above or below average is moot.

 

For example- 5 years ago I'd dismiss any guy who was divorced with children, regardless of how good looking they were. Today, I'm more inclined to dismiss a guy who has no college education. I consider the context of their photos moreso than their looks alone- is he taking bathroom mirror selfies? Does he have all professional head shots? Lots of photos of a car or motorcycle or otherwise look like someone with childish hobbies? Did he write complete sentences in his profile, and say something remotely meaningful or interesting?

 

My original post isn't meant to just be about online dating- I do approach men in public, too. But the world of online dating is a problem because we are all judging each other before we even know each other. Men and women are guilty of that.

 

True, it's different in a number of ways. But people sometimes misrepresent themselves in real life as well. OLD just way of meeting a variety of people that you'd otherwise never cross paths with if you lived to be 110.

 

The reason people seem so unhappy with it is that somehow the expectation gets jacked up and on some level they believe that they should be guaranteed to meet their perfect match in five dates or less! Some actually do. Most are not that lucky. Lose the expectation of instant results and it won't seem so evil.

 

As for lowering my standards....I don't see how that's zero sum. If I wind up in a happy relationship because I lowered my standards, then that's winning, isn't it?

 

Yes, absolutely. I don't think I said it was zero sum. What is zero sum is when 95 percent of the women fixate on 2 percent of men.

 

Whether online or real life, finding a mate boils down to one thing... willingness to accept someone who is willing to accept you. If, after giving it time and effort, that isn't happening there is a pretty good chance that you're aiming too high. I know we don't like hearing that, but it is what it is.

 

Nature instills us with this optimization obsession because it's effective at achieving her objectives, not because she give a damn whether we're happy. A friend of mine (social worker and therapist) and I talk about these things some. She told me about a client who was expressing her joy of being happily married and talking about how much she loved her husband. My friend asked, how did you meet him? She replied, oh it was an arranged marriage.

Edited August 27, 2018 by salparadise

[BluBell]

OP, reading this:

 

 

For yourself, apparently, something changed. Demographic can be a big change, if you moved demographics. They vary everywhere. You could have changed so those interviews don't come as universally in the past. The social climate in general could have changed.

 

 

Well, something happened today that made me realize how I've changed.

I was at the ATM machine and a guy went in front of me, then he waited in his car, leaving it running, while I used the machine. As I was walking back to my car, he walks up to me and asked me my name. No smile, no witty banter, no opening- hey hello I think you're cute, or something. Even though this happened in broad daylight he scared the hell out of me. I told him to get away from me, freaked out and bolted into my car.

 

I realize that he really was probably just an awkward guy who has no idea how to talk to women, and he probably meant me no harm. But what's different for me now versus ten years ago is that way too many bad things have happened to me to be as trusting and open as I used to be. And even though there's a really small chance that guy wanted to rob me today, it's not at all worth the risk.

 

This is a dramatic example of how I likely interact with all men- you guys have hurt me, hurt women I know, and I feel lots of fear around you. It takes me forever to trust one of you anymore.