Fighting Children

[shellybing]

I have a 12 year old girl. She is far from perfect, but she is a good kid in general. She stays away from trouble when she can.

 

But this girl who lives in apartment complex has been picking fights with her. I mean really picking fights. She is 8 or 9 btw, a small child in comparison to my nearly teen girl.

 

This child has gotten in my daughters face twice now trying to get her to fight. I have told her not to hit this kid because if she does hit her, the kid is going to be hurt, so to try to avoid fighting this child. My daughter is monstrously large for her age. She is the same size as me, at 5'6 and I am a grown woman. So for a 12 year old she is a BIG kid. Anyway, after the second time today, when this kid started picking the fight, she came home immediately, and let me know what had happened. She knows to avoid her, and she has been told to be nice and civil on the grounds, even when she doesnt like someone. I let her know to be cordial and move on, if she doesnt like one of the kids or doesnt want to play with them.

 

So, this evening after the 2nd event transpired, I sat down and thought about what to do. So I went up to the apartment where the girl lives (right above me) to try to talk to the mom, and solve the problem. All I got out was 'your daughter is trying to fight my daughter, and my kid is very big and much older than your child. If this kid hits my daughter, she is going to defend herself, and I (was going to continue to tell her that I would like to solve the problem so everyone could be peaceful) and she just started YELLING about how my kid and the other kids bully her. I tried to explain to her that her daughter is just rude (she literally walked up to a group of girls and said to them they were ugly, throws grass in their faces, and talks **** all the time, and then wonders why they don't want to play with her) So this kid is the actual bully, but she's 8 and the other kids are not very afraid of her. SO this lady went off on how I don't watch my kid (she is a teenager, i dont have to watch her every move) and why is she playing with younger kids (because she is the only one her age here, the rest are a bit younger, 11, 12 ish, which i think is okay, and few younger kids that hang around like 8,9 ish) So she is yelling about why is my kids outside playing (wtf she is not a ****ing ogre and have to be locked up just because the other kids are younger) and then, she wanted to threaten me too. She said that if my kid hit her kid that she would come hit me too (I am not afraid) But I called the cops anyway, and now I am worried about what she may do.

 

I see where this kid gets her attitude, and I am wondering if calling the cops was enough to stop it? I don't want a fight, for myself or for my daughter.

[basil67]

I'm so sorry Shelly, but you're going to have to go into damage control.

 

It was great that you wanted to aim for a peaceful resolution, but starting with "your daughter is trying to fight my daughter, and my kid is very big and much older than your child. If this kid hits my daughter....." was only ever going to end in grief. Your approach was pretty much guaranteed to get her on the defensive. It's no different to approaching a husband with an attack on what he does. With this woman, it would have been far wiser to take a non confrontational approach with "our kids seem to be having some issues. I know there's two sides to every story and I'd like to talk it through and find a resolution".

 

I'm going to be blunt and say "far from perfect...stays away from trouble when she can" does not paint your daughter as being completely innocent in all of this. My money is that there are indeed two sides to this story.

 

If I were you, I'd go and apologise. I'd say that I got a bit hot under the collar and that with hindsight, I realise there are two sides to every story. With the kids involved, there needs to be a "what happened?" discussion. Discuss who got hurt and how it could be managed differently in future. It's very likely that both kids got hurt and were reacting negatively in this exchange.

 

When I was working in school playgrounds as an aide, child X would come and tell me that child Y said "you are a poopy pants" or something which I cannot say here without being moderated. When you ask what happened before this thing got said, there was almost always a complex story to be worked through.

 

Go back again, but an apology for being reactive and an open mind to the fact that it's likely both kids contributed to this mess.

Edited August 30, 2018 by basil67

[Mr. Lucky]

Go back again, but an apology for being reactive and an open mind to the fact that it's likely both kids contributed to this mess.

 

Agreed. shellybing, time for you to practice a little of the peacemaking and diplomacy skills you're hoping the children will use to solve similar problems...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Artdeco]

I agree with Basil - there are most probably two sides to this story. I’m not a playground expert, but I have teacher friends (as well as kids in my neighborhood/relatives/friends) that deal with similar scenarios quite a bit - one kid comes tattling, but the whole background story is usually left out. And it’s often hard to get to the bottom of it. And all you see/hear is one side.

 

In this particular case, I don’t believe that a “tiny” 8-yo girl approaches a group of older girls all by herself and throws grass at them for no reason, or at all. If she did, she’s probably been hurt by them before (not necessarily physically), bullied, made fun of, excluded and whatnot. I’m not saying they exclude her for NO reason, she might be annoying, bossy, a bragger who knows ....... but her reaction is described by OPs daughter as somewhat aggressive, and I think this might be a response to being left out or feeling insulted. It must be intimidating for a little girl to approach a group of older girls, all by herself, in an aggressive manner, even more so if they want nothing to do with her.

 

Oh and calling the cops about this? Way out of line. If you must get involved, do it more gently, not like an elephant in a china shop. In general, i think it would’ve been better to talk your daughter through it, try to figure out what has really happened before the incident(s), etc. The other mom is basically in the same boat. Im sure she hears a completely different story. So all you really can do is stay out of it, deescalate and teach your daughter how to deal with people respectfully if she doesn’t WANT to interact with them.

 

I think you should apologize. Maybe take your daughter with you, so that the girls can have a talk as well. After all, they’re in the same apartment building. You don’t need the tension. You might run into them a lot. Esp if the kids play in the playground together.

[shellybing]

OKay, let me try to address all 3 of these comments in one go here.

 

So I know why they don't like to play with the little girl. There was a larger group of kids living here over the summer, all ages, up to age 12. My daughter being the oldest one.

 

A few of the kids moved out of the apartment complex, one of which was this small girls friend. Nobody liked to play with the 2 girls, because they would always go back and forth with their catty and aggressive attitudes. The two of them began playing together, and it stayed pretty calm as long as the 2 more aggressive girls played together. Well, the other one left.

 

M girl is a bit older than the rest, there is only 1 other 11 year old (I was mistaken when I had put a group of older children, they are not older, just bigger)

 

So I know what has been going on. From the other side of the fence, the girl probably does feel excluded. But that is honestly not my problem. If this woman can't teach her child to play nicely with others, they are obviously not going to want to play with her.

 

The woman is also very aggressive. I agree I probably could have used a better choice of words, but I did before I ever explained any of that situation, tell her that I would just like to talk to her to solve the problem. She answered me knocking at the door from her balcony, and wouldn't even speak to me face to face. When I began to explain what the problem was, she immediately began yelling and threatening to fight me herself. So I can see where the kid gets it from. She was angered even more, and came barreling down the stairs as I was leaving because she was yelling, and I was speaking calmly. She tried to accuse me of racism, but tbh the kids are all creeds and colors here and that was not the problem at all. The woman is an unreasonable person, and I really kind of knew that going into this, and should have more carefully worded what I was going to say, and how. But my choice of words doesn't warrant a threat. I said look, it's not a racial thing. They don't play together because she is rude, and then she comes barreling down the stairs threatening to hit me. I had brought my daughter with me in hopes of mediating between the 2 girls, but I could barely get any words at all out, with her yelling. So yea. I hear the mother out on the phone late hours every single night talking crap about her own friends, and other people. That is literally all she does is talk **** about other people. She sit there and tried to tell me that my daughter is lieing, and while I understand there are 2 sides to every story, my daughter is not the one making threats to fight other kids, and I am not the one yelling.

 

I have had to call the police on her before, for excessively loud and roudy parties late into the night. I get it, we all want to let go, but thumping your bass music late into the night on a regular basis is not how we make friends okay. No regard. If she were a reasonable person, this wouldn't even be happening.

 

I have told my daughter twice now to stay away from that girl, and her and one of the other girls went clear across the way to be near another one of the girls apartments, just to avoid the whole situation, over by the next building. This little child followed them over there to pick a fight, and I would heavily admit that I think her mom probably does the same bull**** looking for a fight, judging by how she acted. I couldnt even get a whole sentence out before she started yelling. All I said to begin with was "I would like to talk to you about your daughter." and she was yelling, all the other stuff I could barely get out over her, I literally just wanted to talk and she started yelling.

 

I am trying to find a valid solution to the problem, and the problem is a violent self centered person, who has no regard for the rules or the law.

 

The police told us to stay away from the girl. We are not going over there to apologize. I am not sorry for trying to solve a problem, regardless of how my words were chosen. She was the one yelling. She was the one being violent. I had every right to call the police.

[Artdeco]

Look, that’s really sad that the girl has a mother that is apparently unable to teach her how to play with other kids and how to behave in general. Plus, the little girl has lost a friend, And her mother doesn’t seem to be a very good parent if she entertains loud parties all through the night.. I think inclusion is the key here. Teach your daughter to include the kid in order to avoid further friction. The girl doesn’t deserve to be excluded just because her mother is unable to raise her properly. I think in this case you have to be the bigger person - simple as that. And your own daughter will learn a lot from that.

[shellybing]

Look, that’s really sad that the girl has a mother that is apparently unable to teach her how to play with other kids and how to behave in general. Plus, the little girl has lost a friend, And her mother doesn’t seem to be a very good parent if she entertains loud parties all through the night.. I think inclusion is the key here. Teach your daughter to include the kid in order to avoid further friction. The girl doesn’t deserve to be excluded just because her mother is unable to raise her properly. I think in this case you have to be the bigger person - simple as that. And your own daughter will learn a lot from that.

 

That is usually what I would do. But honestly, if the girl is included and just causes a bunch of problems (modeling her mom's actions) then do you really thibk that's a great idea? probably not. I am also not going against what the police said to do after their mother threatened me. For talking to her. Regardless of how it was said.

[shellybing]

She can't just go around threatening other children who are much bigger than her (and all are older than her) and ezpect to want to play with them.

 

Do you like to go over to someone's house or out to a restaurant just so they can yell at you and call you ugly? probably not. Why do you expect me to make my kid include someone like that in their activities? I wouldn't go out with someone like that for any reason, ever. It's abusive and sick behavior. I teach my kids to include but we do not tolerate abusive behavior.

[preraph]

Don't kids film everything that goes down like this on their phones? Ask your daughter if she knows if anyone might have filmed any of it. Otherwise, you're going to have to tell your daughter to just leave when the kid comes around or follows and come back home. yes, the child is getting it from her mother.

 

And your child being the bigger child will always get blamed for it. You're going to have to make your daughter just come home. i know that kid is following other kids around, but this can't last forever, so just either keep your daughter in or drive her to a friend's house not around there or take her to the movies, but just keep her totally out of it for at least a couple of months and let someone else solve this problem since your girl will be who people naturally assume is the bully. Big people aren't always the bullies but they always get the blame.

[shellybing]

Don't kids film everything that goes down like this on their phones? Ask your daughter if she knows if anyone might have filmed any of it. Otherwise, you're going to have to tell your daughter to just leave when the kid comes around or follows and come back home. yes, the child is getting it from her mother.

 

And your child being the bigger child will always get blamed for it. You're going to have to make your daughter just come home. i know that kid is following other kids around, but this can't last forever, so just either keep your daughter in or drive her to a friend's house not around there or take her to the movies, but just keep her totally out of it for at least a couple of months and let someone else solve this problem since your girl will be who people naturally assume is the bully. Big people aren't always the bullies but they always get the blame.

 

I don't really let my daughter take her device out just in the lawn where the kids play (she has broke too many that way, so she has to check in) and she rarely goes out to play anyway. The kids are much younger than she is, and she gets bored of trying to babysit the smaller ones, when she does go out. So it's not a huge probelm for her to stay away from that kid. She has enough after school activities to keep her busy all through the winter and rest of the school year, so I am not too worried about her running into that kid again.

 

 

I have asked my daughter several times what happened, and she has stuck to her story. Her and one of the girls who is a bit older had gone clear around to another building where a friend of ours lives and has a puppy we visit. So they were over there, she said that the girl came following them over there trying to start a fight, and the one she was with, who was a bit younger (maybe 10) was being receptive to the fight, saying to square up. So I asked her what SHE did, and she said I knew you had told me not to get involved, so I left and stood near a tree and then came home (which was when she had told me about it, and I went up there after I had thought about what to do).

 

So yea. I am keeping her inside for now.

 

I am not a huge fan of conflict, so these things are difficult for me to sort out.

 

Thank You for the help. I wish I had a better idea, because I doubt going up there again is going to solve anything.

[shellybing]

I have an update:

 

I spoke with the mom of the other child involved in this.

This child is 11, and mine is 12 and they frequently play together.

 

This one had gotten into a physical fight with that girl already once, and the mom went over yelling and threatening them too. This mom said that she doesn't care if her daughter is out there trying to fight them.

 

She had followed her with them and had started a fight. The other little girl is quite a bit older too, and her mom has said that they followed them over there several times to try and start a fight where the girl backed down. Then young one that is so aggressive finally pushed her to the limit and she swung and hit the girl.

 

This little girl is a problem child. So is her mother.

[preraph]

I don't really let my daughter take her device out just in the lawn where the kids play (she has broke too many that way, so she has to check in) and she rarely goes out to play anyway. The kids are much younger than she is, and she gets bored of trying to babysit the smaller ones, when she does go out. So it's not a huge probelm for her to stay away from that kid. She has enough after school activities to keep her busy all through the winter and rest of the school year, so I am not too worried about her running into that kid again.

 

 

I have asked my daughter several times what happened, and she has stuck to her story. Her and one of the girls who is a bit older had gone clear around to another building where a friend of ours lives and has a puppy we visit. So they were over there, she said that the girl came following them over there trying to start a fight, and the one she was with, who was a bit younger (maybe 10) was being receptive to the fight, saying to square up. So I asked her what SHE did, and she said I knew you had told me not to get involved, so I left and stood near a tree and then came home (which was when she had told me about it, and I went up there after I had thought about what to do).

 

So yea. I am keeping her inside for now.

 

I am not a huge fan of conflict, so these things are difficult for me to sort out.

 

Thank You for the help. I wish I had a better idea, because I doubt going up there again is going to solve anything.

 

That little girl just sounds mentally unhinged for lack of a good parent. It's sad that she's so far gone she can't even get "autocorrected" by the "pack" as to what's acceptable and what's not, but if she's going to pick fights, she's past that point.

 

Do call police when needed. If it were me, I'd sneak around and warn her administration at the little girl's school that although small, she is very aggressive and her mother is why so they don't blame some innocent school child for her misbehavior.

Edited September 3, 2018 by preraph