friends with kids

[Popeye_Jones]

Are you just trying to say this to make yourself feel better?

 

Some people have children and love their bodies and have great partners who also think they are the bees knees. Some people get lucky in life - it does NOT have to be KIDS = poverty, being obese and not having a career or life outside of the kids:sick:

 

<SNIP>

 

Wow. Just...wow. Did you REALLY need to type ALL of that?? And for what? In a feeble attempt to change my mind? Hey, if are a mother and you love it with all your heart, then by all means, more power to you. Enjoy it to your heart's content. But just don't look for me to do it. Now or ever. I am an uncle. I have nieces aged 16, 8, and 5. I LOVE them dearly and they love me as well. I would do anything for them. But, that's just it. I am their uncle and not their parent. They understand that and they are good with it. I do not, under any circumstances, want to be a parent. That's not to say that someone else shouldn't be if that is what THEY truly want. I'm just saying that I do not want to be. So, enjoy being a parent. Just don't expect me to be one.

 

On another note, I just don't get these women who have this mentality about them where they just feel like that they MUST be a parent to every child out there. And it's worse when they become a grandparent or great grandparent. I have a dear friend who is a great grandmother. She is not your average great grandmother, by the way. She's only like mid-60's. Anyway, I love the woman dearly. I would do absolutely anything for her. But, Lord have mercy,I get sick and tired of hearing about her great grandchildren. And don't get me wrong, I understand that she loves them like they are her own children, and this and that, but when we are getting ready to have sex, I REALLY don't want to hear about kids. It kind of kills the mood. I have to remind her that it's nothing personal against her great grandkids, but that is NOT the best time to bring them up. Not to mention, they are extremely jealous of me and they hate me. Which I could care less about, but they try and make it difficult for me. Let't not fool ourselves. Kids can be manipulative. Not all, but certainly some.

Edited October 6, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Leigh 87]

Wow. Just...wow. Did you REALLY need to type ALL of that?? And for what? In a feeble attempt to change my mind? Hey, if are a mother and you love it with all your heart, then by all means, more power to you. Enjoy it to your heart's content. But just don't look for me to do it. Now or ever. I am an uncle. I have nieces aged 16, 8, and 5. I LOVE them dearly and they love me as well. I would do anything for them. But, that's just it. I am their uncle and not their parent. They understand that and they are good with it. I do not, under any circumstances, want to be a parent. That's not to say that someone else shouldn't be if that is what THEY truly want. I'm just saying that I do not want to be. So, enjoy being a parent. Just don't expect me to be one.

 

On another note, I just don't get these women who have this mentality about them where they just feel like that they MUST be a parent to every child out there. And it's worse when they become a grandparent or great grandparent. I have a dear friend who is a great grandmother. She is not your average great grandmother, by the way. She's only like mid-60's. Anyway, I love the woman dearly. I would do absolutely anything for her. But, Lord have mercy,I get sick and tired of hearing about her great grandchildren. And don't get me wrong, I understand that she loves them like they are her own children, and this and that, but when we are getting ready to have sex, I REALLY don't want to hear about kids. It kind of kills the mood. I have to remind her that it's nothing personal against her great grandkids, but that is NOT the best time to bring them up. Not to mention, they are extremely jealous of me and they hate me. Which I could care less about, but they try and make it difficult for me. Let't not fool ourselves. Kids can be manipulative. Not all, but certainly some.

 

 

Oh, I never suggested that YOU would derive pleasure out of parenting. Not everyone enjoys having kids and people like you are at their happiest point SANS kids.

 

I thought you were implying that ALL people are less happy with children, and that we ALL share your thoughts surrounding child rearing.

 

I do not have kids yet but understand that parenting done right is 100% consuming, exhausting, drains your bank account and leaves most women with a heavier weight, stretch marks and the works. Yet I could not be more excited and happy about my decision to have children. It is irrational - despite all the glaringly obvious drawbacks - some people just know that they would be happier with kids than being child free.

 

When I have kids I will be the last one to try and impose dogma on those who KNOW within themselves that they would not relish having children. I wouldn't be caught dead telling non parents that they will not know real love until they have kids:sick:

 

And I will endeavour to NOT be like the OP's friend, either. I would hate to lose all my child free friends and have nothing fulfilling in my life other than a baby.

 

Totally wasn't trying to convince you to have kids lol... IT just felt like you were trying to speak on behalf of everyone else.

[Malin889]

Why is everyone so angry?!

[noelle303]

Wow. Just...wow. Did you REALLY need to type ALL of that?? And for what? In a feeble attempt to change my mind? Hey, if are a mother and you love it with all your heart, then by all means, more power to you. Enjoy it to your heart's content. But just don't look for me to do it. Now or ever. I am an uncle. I have nieces aged 16, 8, and 5. I LOVE them dearly and they love me as well. I would do anything for them. But, that's just it. I am their uncle and not their parent. They understand that and they are good with it. I do not, under any circumstances, want to be a parent. That's not to say that someone else shouldn't be if that is what THEY truly want. I'm just saying that I do not want to be. So, enjoy being a parent. Just don't expect me to be one.

 

On another note, I just don't get these women who have this mentality about them where they just feel like that they MUST be a parent to every child out there. And it's worse when they become a grandparent or great grandparent. I have a dear friend who is a great grandmother. She is not your average great grandmother, by the way. She's only like mid-60's. Anyway, I love the woman dearly. I would do absolutely anything for her. But, Lord have mercy,I get sick and tired of hearing about her great grandchildren. And don't get me wrong, I understand that she loves them like they are her own children, and this and that, but when we are getting ready to have sex, I REALLY don't want to hear about kids. It kind of kills the mood. I have to remind her that it's nothing personal against her great grandkids, but that is NOT the best time to bring them up. Not to mention, they are extremely jealous of me and they hate me. Which I could care less about, but they try and make it difficult for me. Let't not fool ourselves. Kids can be manipulative. Not all, but certainly some.

 

I really don't get saying that "kids ruin everything" and take away your time, dignity, career, sex life etc. and you don't even have kids?

 

My kids ruined none of those things for me and I personally don't know any mothers who feel that way about their own children. I'm sure some women struggle more than others and some may even regret having kids, but to say that like it's the majority? Not accurate.

 

As far as the friendship thing goes - none of my friends have kids, while I have a seven year old. Personally, if they told me that they don't want to hear me talk about my daughter - they'd be out of my life. I'm sorry, but m daughter is everything to em and the biggest part of my life, yes I'm going to talk about her and sometimes I'm going to bring her along when socializing with friends.

 

Thankfully, I have really great friends who love her and don't mind it at all.

 

I don't think you can call yourself a friend if you don't allow someone to talk about an important part of their life just because you don't feel like listening to it. I sometimes listen to my friends petty relationship drama, or work drama even though I've heard it a thousand times before - but it's a part of their life and I'm here for them to talk about it.

 

If someone told me "I don't want to hear about your kid, don't mention it to me", I don't think that person would be a friend at all.

[Robert]

**Note from Moderation**

 

Let's keep the tone more a tone of civility and respect for one another and not take any more barbs at each other.

 

If you cannot post without throwing a knife then don't post.

 

Thanks

[preraph]

I really don't get saying that "kids ruin everything" and take away your time, dignity, career, sex life etc. and you don't even have kids?

 

My kids ruined none of those things for me and I personally don't know any mothers who feel that way about their own children. I'm sure some women struggle more than others and some may even regret having kids, but to say that like it's the majority? Not accurate.

 

As far as the friendship thing goes - none of my friends have kids, while I have a seven year old. Personally, if they told me that they don't want to hear me talk about my daughter - they'd be out of my life. I'm sorry, but m daughter is everything to em and the biggest part of my life, yes I'm going to talk about her and sometimes I'm going to bring her along when socializing with friends.

 

Thankfully, I have really great friends who love her and don't mind it at all.

 

I don't think you can call yourself a friend if you don't allow someone to talk about an important part of their life just because you don't feel like listening to it. I sometimes listen to my friends petty relationship drama, or work drama even though I've heard it a thousand times before - but it's a part of their life and I'm here for them to talk about it.

 

If someone told me "I don't want to hear about your kid, don't mention it to me", I don't think that person would be a friend at all.

 

The problem comes in when that's all someone will talk about, because it's not something the two friends have in common. So like for example, if I had a boring job, I would say, Yes, work is going okay, but I wouldn't bend a friend's ear about the particulars of the boring job. Kids are fascinating to many of their parents, but not to anyone who isn't their parent unless they also have kids maybe the same age and can learn things. That said, friends and coworkers tell me they don't even like other people's kids, just their own. I just think some people need a reality check about it. Not that they shouldn't love their kids or make them number one, but that they should realize no one else is as invested as some family.

 

My dogs are my daily joy, but I've had two friends who didn't like dogs, so I didn't talk about them or even bring them out when they were over. You know what your friend is like and you having a baby doesn't change what they're like. They'll be happy for you as long as you don't completely abandon them because you can't be interested in anything you used to be interested in and can only be interested in your child to the exclusion of everything else. Parents need to hang on to their identity or they feel really lost once the kids are out of the house.

[Zapbasket]

Preraph and Noelle303, I think you both make great points.

 

When you sign on to a friendship with someone, you do sign on to that person's concerns, passions, interests, quirks, and habits in that you have to hold space for those things so that the person is free to be their authentic self around you. If you insist that your friend only share your concerns and interests, etc., not only are you reducing the "friendship" to a purely utilitarian exchange, you also are failing to recognize that your friend is his or her own separate person. And in not recognizing or celebrating that, you are cutting off the possibility of your own growth as a person. Friends can teach so much--a friendship is like admittance into a university of that person's experience and world view.

 

I think many of us have forgotten this. I think we want friendships where we can take only the parts we like or that resonate with us, and leave the rest. Where is the empathy, where is the intimacy, where is the growth opportunity, in that? And it doesn't work that way. None of us is as interesting as we'd like to think we are. The quirks that might make us fascinating and even lovable literary characters are annoying as sh*t to deal with on a daily, real-world basis. But we need people to love us not only in spite of those quirks (those kinds of friendships always feel so fraught with anxiety because it's like one misstep and you could drive the friend away), but BECAUSE of them. Because our complexities as people, frustrating as they may be at times, are what make us human, and it's human beings we want as friends, not robots--though I feel social media has made us think it's robots we want: mechanized "people" with all the inconvenient bits strained out.

 

All of my mom's friends know about me. My mom always says that they all ask about me. Which means that she talks to them about me. Sometimes I wonder if my mom talks about me too much so that her friends secretly are tired of hearing about me. I hope not, because it will be those friends I will count on as my mom ages--particularly her younger friends whom I hope will help me help her. I am counting on there being enough love there for some of that to be extended to me if and when I need it. THAT is what community means. And I trust that I will have this in the future with my mom's friends, because I know my mom is at least as generous to them as they must be to her, to hear about me on a regular basis.

 

It's that very delicate balance of give and take that keeps a friendship healthy and growing. It does become tedious for a friend to talk about her kids all the time when she then doesn't listen to my single-lady concerns. But if I can have the floor sometimes, too, and be myself, then I can hear about a friend's kids all day if that's what she wants to talk about.

[Popeye_Jones]

Oh, I never suggested that YOU would derive pleasure out of parenting. Not everyone enjoys having kids and people like you are at their happiest point SANS kids.

 

I thought you were implying that ALL people are less happy with children, and that we ALL share your thoughts surrounding child rearing.

 

I do not have kids yet but understand that parenting done right is 100% consuming, exhausting, drains your bank account and leaves most women with a heavier weight, stretch marks and the works. Yet I could not be more excited and happy about my decision to have children. It is irrational - despite all the glaringly obvious drawbacks - some people just know that they would be happier with kids than being child free.

 

When I have kids I will be the last one to try and impose dogma on those who KNOW within themselves that they would not relish having children. I wouldn't be caught dead telling non parents that they will not know real love until they have kids:sick:

 

And I will endeavour to NOT be like the OP's friend, either. I would hate to lose all my child free friends and have nothing fulfilling in my life other than a baby.

 

Totally wasn't trying to convince you to have kids lol... IT just felt like you were trying to speak on behalf of everyone else.

 

No. I was not speaking on behalf of everyone. I could have done a better job wording it to where it would have been more clear that I was speaking for myself. Lord knows I do not want to speak for other people, especially where kids are concerned. I'm sort of a rare breed. When I say I don't want kids, and you can take it to the bank. Whereas a lot of others will SAY that they don't want them, but deep down they really do. I never quiet understood that. I mean, why say that you don't want kids if you really do? Yet another thing that I don't understand about people in general.

 

As someone else pointed out, the problem with kids and friendship is when the friend with kids only wants to talk about kids. It's just kids, kids, kids, kids all the time. If people with kids would just take a moment and realize that their childless friends don't want to listen to kid babble 24/7, then things would be different. As I have said before, my lady friend is a great grandmother and she babbles about her great grand kids a lot. Although, that has gotten better. She finally realized that that wears on people, period, not just me, and not just childless people. Even people with kids don't want to have to listen to that non-stop. And I had some latitude to ask her to quell the kid babble, because the kids she was babbling about were not her kids, nor even her grandkids, but her great grandkids. As in her grandchildren's children. Just my .02, but she has already been a mother and a grandmother, so what in the world can be SO fascinating about being a great grandmother? What does she still find so intriguing about kids for crying out loud?

 

I mean, I know that part of it is that she wants to be (and in fact thinks that she should be) their mother. I don't get that, but it's what she wants. However, it's never going to happen. The kids have parents and grandparents. Why she thinks that she should be their mother (and how she thinks she would even make it work) is totally beyond me.

[fieldoflavender]

So I'm supposed to get together with this friend like 2 months ago. I've been dreading it to be honest. Her daughter was extremely bratty last time and to be honest, I'm just too chicken to bring it up because she acts like some of the mom's who have commented. My daughter(s) and son(s) are the most important people to me and how dare someone think otherwise.

 

So I feel there is a huge disconnect and it makes me look like a bad person if I say I don't want to see her kids. But to be honest, I really have very little interest right now. I don't want to sit through another kid's show while they colour as I make an attempt at having an adult conversation or her husband prying into my personal conversations.

 

So I don't know. I know I'm being avoidant but maybe she is too. Maybe I can only be friends with her if I have kids in the future - which may be like never. So too bad? I'm too busy and overworked to really figure it out.

[Leigh 87]

No. I was not speaking on behalf of everyone. I could have done a better job wording it to where it would have been more clear that I was speaking for myself. Lord knows I do not want to speak for other people, especially where kids are concerned. I'm sort of a rare breed. When I say I don't want kids, and you can take it to the bank. Whereas a lot of others will SAY that they don't want them, but deep down they really do. I never quiet understood that. I mean, why say that you don't want kids if you really do? Yet another thing that I don't understand about people in general.

 

As someone else pointed out, the problem with kids and friendship is when the friend with kids only wants to talk about kids. It's just kids, kids, kids, kids all the time. If people with kids would just take a moment and realize that their childless friends don't want to listen to kid babble 24/7, then things would be different. As I have said before, my lady friend is a great grandmother and she babbles about her great grand kids a lot. Although, that has gotten better. She finally realized that that wears on people, period, not just me, and not just childless people. Even people with kids don't want to have to listen to that non-stop. And I had some latitude to ask her to quell the kid babble, because the kids she was babbling about were not her kids, nor even her grandkids, but her great grandkids. As in her grandchildren's children. Just my .02, but she has already been a mother and a grandmother, so what in the world can be SO fascinating about being a great grandmother? What does she still find so intriguing about kids for crying out loud?

 

I mean, I know that part of it is that she wants to be (and in fact thinks that she should be) their mother. I don't get that, but it's what she wants. However, it's never going to happen. The kids have parents and grandparents. Why she thinks that she should be their mother (and how she thinks she would even make it work) is totally beyond me.

 

 

Yes the only reason I suspect I was s against having children in my 20s was due to me having an infertility related disease which I am about to have emergency surgery for due to a uterine cancer scare. If it goes well though, I will be fertile and it will be the boost I need.

 

I only ever said I hated children and was staunchly outspokenly against them because I feared I would never be able to have them. Which without this surgery, I wouldn't be able to. I am so glad I was honest with myself and met my fiance when I did - it led me down the right path of self reflection and actualisation and in turn, has made this surgery possible. While I was never ready for kids prior to now mentally and emotionally and def no financially - deep down I wanted them one day but was just too afraid to admit this out of fear of my own infertility. Conversely - many people do not want children and are much happier for not having them, while many that go on to have kids end up regretting them (I meet heaps of these people too).

 

I also dislike those who only talk about their children - but think it is TOTALLY ok to carry on about kids to OTHER PARENTS - it is actually risky carrying on only about your children to the exclusion of ALL other topics with strangers though; you never know who is infertile. Infertile people are all around, it is more common than one might think but no one talks about it because they do not want pity. It crushes women who are unable to ever have children when all the world talks about are their own children.

 

I get that your kids are your whole world, but why not leave the kid talk to OTHER parents? Of course, it is impossible to NEVER mention your kids to childless friends, I personally love chatting about other peoples children BUT - I DO like them to be able to chat about non kid related topics...

 

Kid talk is fine, great even I love it - but it hurts a lot knowing I may not be able to have my own children because it makes me worry that no one wants to be a true friend if I do not have my own kids; it makes me feel alienated and like I will lose all my friends one day once they have kids, and forget all about anything that does no relate to their kids.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Leigh 87

[Leigh 87]

No. I was not speaking on behalf of everyone. I could have done a better job wording it to where it would have been more clear that I was speaking for myself. Lord knows I do not want to speak for other people, especially where kids are concerned. I'm sort of a rare breed. When I say I don't want kids, and you can take it to the bank. Whereas a lot of others will SAY that they don't want them, but deep down they really do. I never quiet understood that. I mean, why say that you don't want kids if you really do? Yet another thing that I don't understand about people in general.

 

As someone else pointed out, the problem with kids and friendship is when the friend with kids only wants to talk about kids. It's just kids, kids, kids, kids all the time. If people with kids would just take a moment and realize that their childless friends don't want to listen to kid babble 24/7, then things would be different. As I have said before, my lady friend is a great grandmother and she babbles about her great grand kids a lot. Although, that has gotten better. She finally realized that that wears on people, period, not just me, and not just childless people. Even people with kids don't want to have to listen to that non-stop. And I had some latitude to ask her to quell the kid babble, because the kids she was babbling about were not her kids, nor even her grandkids, but her great grandkids. As in her grandchildren's children. Just my .02, but she has already been a mother and a grandmother, so what in the world can be SO fascinating about being a great grandmother? What does she still find so intriguing about kids for crying out loud?

 

I mean, I know that part of it is that she wants to be (and in fact thinks that she should be) their mother. I don't get that, but it's what she wants. However, it's never going to happen. The kids have parents and grandparents. Why she thinks that she should be their mother (and how she thinks she would even make it work) is totally beyond me.

 

Part of what crushes e the most about me potentially not being able to have my own kids is... I already get where she is coming from regarding why she is obsessed with her grand kids. I too, know that when I have kids (fingers and toes crossed that I CAN) - I know in my heart that they are all I will want to talk about and I also feel as though I will feel the same way as your grand grandma friend:sick:

 

That is what crushes women like myself who become involuntarily childless; it is truly a lost dream, because it is our one and only first dream and nothing else would compare. Children, raising them myself and grand kids and the like are my passion in life now and I really feel where your friend is coming from and see myself in her. The difference is, I will go out of my way to NOT only talk about my children despite knowing it iwll likely me my favourite topic of discussion...

 

My infertility journey has made me promise myself that if I have children, to NEVER carry on about them inordinately for the fear of those who may not be able to have children feeling even ore weird and left out of the life they dreamed of and in turn, it will (hopefully!) make me a better friend to those friends of mine who NEVER wanted kids too.

[Popeye_Jones]

Part of what crushes e the most about me potentially not being able to have my own kids is... I already get where she is coming from regarding why she is obsessed with her grand kids. I too, know that when I have kids (fingers and toes crossed that I CAN) - I know in my heart that they are all I will want to talk about and I also feel as though I will feel the same way as your grand grandma friend:sick:

 

That is what crushes women like myself who become involuntarily childless; it is truly a lost dream, because it is our one and only first dream and nothing else would compare. Children, raising them myself and grand kids and the like are my passion in life now and I really feel where your friend is coming from and see myself in her. The difference is, I will go out of my way to NOT only talk about my children despite knowing it iwll likely me my favourite topic of discussion...

 

My infertility journey has made me promise myself that if I have children, to NEVER carry on about them inordinately for the fear of those who may not be able to have children feeling even ore weird and left out of the life they dreamed of and in turn, it will (hopefully!) make me a better friend to those friends of mine who NEVER wanted kids too.

 

I hear ya,my friend. And best of luck to you. You really want to be a mother, and I wish you nothing but the best. While I don't know you personally, I can tell that you are sincere and you will be an excellent mother. Best of luck on your upcoming surgery. Just a slight correction, my lady friend is a great grandmother. So those are her great grandkids that she tends to babble on and on about. I told her that I completely understand her love for them as if they were her own, but, discussing them with me when we are about to sleep together is NOT a good idea. And it's certainly nothing personal against them, but the mentioning of children period at a time like that is definitely a libido killer. I had to actually explain that to her. As in completely spell it out for her. I think she gets it now.

 

Also, she has it in her head that she should be their mother. She totally disregards the fact that her great grandchildren have parents, as well as grandparents, and more than one set of each. Yet, she thinks that she should be raising them. And she has health issues. I have had to take her to the emergency room more than once for breathing troubles. Now, honestly, does that sound like someone who should be raising small children? Not to mention, where on earth would she put them? In the one, tiny spare bedroom that she has? And keep in mind, the things that I have mentioned thus far are not even the tip of the iceberg. I would be here all day if I tried to type up every reason why she should not be raising kids.

 

She says "well, my way of raising them would be better than how they are being raised". I told her that none of that is her call. Personally, I see nothing wrong with how they are being raised by their parents. They are quite well behaved, after all. But, she thinks she knows best. Don't get me wrong, I love her more than anything, but she is VERY opinionated and judgmental when it comes to how kids are raised. Even the very best parents on the face of the planet would be judged harshly by her. I just don't understand that. I told her that if she loves being a mother so much, then be one to me. Shoot, we could have a whole lot of fun with that!

Edited October 10, 2018 by Popeye_Jones

[BettyDraper]

Kids ruin everything. They take your time, your money, your looks, your sanity, your dignity, your sex life. And there is NO escaping them. Even people who SAY they do not want kids still act like they do. I actually knew someone who claimed that they did not want kids yet still made a nursery out of their spare bedroom. For their unborn, nonexistent child that they swore that they did not want. Creepy. And even people who have grown kids, babble on and on and on about them as if they were still 3-5 years old. I want to scream "your kids are adults. It's not like they are babies doing adorable baby crap, so why are you going on and on about them?" And holy crap, Lord help when someone becomes a grandparent or worse yet, a great grandparent. The whole "parenting" thing kicks in all over again. And I want to scream "THESE ARE NOT YOUR KIDS!!".

 

There is some element of truth to your negative comments about parenting. However, I believe that it's erroneous to believe that parenting is nothing but unhappiness. For those who wish to raise children, the negative aspects of parenting are worth it for them. This is true for any monumental decision; marriage is also full of ups and downs.

 

I have spent most of my adulthood not wanting children. I still have moments when I think that I may want to be a mother but then I realize that my urges are purely hormonal. Ultimately, I decided that it would not be sensible to have a child for many reasons. Health and the respective ages of my husband and I are huge factors. The uncertain realities of a vasectomy reversal is another one. Lastly, I relish my freedom and disposable income. My husband and I just came back from a luxury resort in Jamaica. In 2020 we will be going to Tuscany for 10 days for our 10th wedding anniversary. I have gone back to university and we will be getting a puppy this December. I wouldn't be doing any of the aforementioned things if I was a mother because I would have no time and far less money. No thanks!

 

Most of my friends have children and we still manage to stay close. I don't expect too much from them in terms of being able to spend time together. It helps that I like children so I don't mind spending time with my friend's kids. My friends do not make snide remarks about my childfreedom and I never rub my lifestyle in their faces.

 

Tolerance goes a long way in any friendship.

[Popeye_Jones]

There is some element of truth to your negative comments about parenting. However, I believe that it's erroneous to believe that parenting is nothing but unhappiness. For those who wish to raise children, the negative aspects of parenting are worth it for them. This is true for any monumental decision; marriage is also full of ups and downs.

 

I have spent most of my adulthood not wanting children. I still have moments when I think that I may want to be a mother but then I realize that my urges are purely hormonal. Ultimately, I decided that it would not be sensible to have a child for many reasons. Health and the respective ages of my husband and I are huge factors. The uncertain realities of a vasectomy reversal is another one. Lastly, I relish my freedom and disposable income. My husband and I just came back from a luxury resort in Jamaica. In 2020 we will be going to Tuscany for 10 days for our 10th wedding anniversary. I have gone back to university and we will be getting a puppy this December. I wouldn't be doing any of the aforementioned things if I was a mother because I would have no time and far less money. No thanks!

 

Most of my friends have children and we still manage to stay close. I don't expect too much from them in terms of being able to spend time together. It helps that I like children so I don't mind spending time with my friend's kids. My friends do not make snide remarks about my childfreedom and I never rub my lifestyle in their faces.

 

Tolerance goes a long way in any friendship.

 

With the exception of the first paragraph, I really love your post. Yes, I am sure that having children is really amazing to some. But, that's them. That's how the people that want them feel. Ok. Fine. More power to them. Come tomorrow, I'm still going to feel the same way. I look at it this way. I think that for a lot of people, and I think it's one of those things that cuts across culture, reproduction is seen as the primary purpose of existence.

 

I don't know how many times in a week I hear or read "after all, that's what we're here for!" It's in personal conversations, it's in online comments sections, it's in books, it's in movies, it's everywhere. Something that so many people define as the *entire point of existence* is bound to get a reaction when it's discovered that not everyone agrees with that. We're not talking about chocolate or vanilla here; for so many people, it goes to the absolute core of our collective reason for being.

 

Now, add to that that it's not a great job. I'll even play devil's advocate for a moment and say it has its good points (mind you, I'm just playing along - I see no positive aspect to child-rearing IRL). However, even if it were 75/25 good/bad...that's a lot of bad. So now you have this situation where a large portion of society feels that something isn't really a choice, and it's a mixed bag at best, with the potential of being really, really bad. We're looking at sacrificing personal health, shaky finances, lack of sleep, constant worry, etc.

 

And then someone who thinks like me comes along and says, "Oh, that what you have going on there? I'll pass, thanks!" We then walk off in the sunset knowing we just skipped a potentially lifelong financial burden, we just claimed our free time, our freedom in general to go where we want without being tied down by kids. Hell, if I were a parent, I'd hate me, too!

Edited October 10, 2018 by Popeye_Jones

[fieldoflavender]

So I'm being a chicken. So she asked me to meet up and I said a day. Then she's like - oh come on over. Meaning I have to go and watch her kids watch TV shows again.

 

I asked her if she can come out for a coffee. We'll see how it goes.

 

Should I just be more assertive ? I can't lol it's so awkward.

[Zapbasket]

So I'm being a chicken. So she asked me to meet up and I said a day. Then she's like - oh come on over. Meaning I have to go and watch her kids watch TV shows again.

 

I asked her if she can come out for a coffee. We'll see how it goes.

 

Should I just be more assertive ? I can't lol it's so awkward.

 

Yes, you should be more assertive, because this friendship will die if you are not. It might die if you're assertive, too--but that really is the only chance this friendship has got.

[fieldoflavender]

But what am I supposed to say? I don't want to hang out with your kids? I don't think it's wrong, but somehow it makes me seem like a terrible person.

 

Sigh...And she's living with her parents so they could babysit now - it's not even like she has to leave her kids alone while she goes out to get a coffee for like 1 hour.

 

I don't mind going once or twice a year to her home to see her husband and kids for like Christmas or something and I don't mind buying gifts for her kids during that time. Not like EVERY birthday, Easter blah blah.

[Zapbasket]

But what am I supposed to say? I don't want to hang out with your kids? I don't think it's wrong, but somehow it makes me seem like a terrible person.

 

Sigh...And she's living with her parents so they could babysit now - it's not even like she has to leave her kids alone while she goes out to get a coffee for like 1 hour.

 

I don't mind going once or twice a year to her home to see her husband and kids for like Christmas or something and I don't mind buying gifts for her kids during that time. Not like EVERY birthday, Easter blah blah.

 

I don't think you have to be that blunt--because I agree, it sounds bad (even though it's perfectly fine not to want to hang with someone's young children!)

 

Something like this: "Hey, listen, I really want to see you and I want us to go out one on one this time. Another time I'll come over and hang with all of you. But this time, when we get together, let's just make it a girls' time."

 

And if she persists, e.g., "Oh, come on over! The kids and [husband] would love to see you!"

 

You say, "Awww, that's sweet. Another time, I promise. I'm really in need of some one on one."

 

If she still persists, try, "Come on--could you get [hubby or parents] to watch the kids?"

 

And if the answer is no, well, first of all, damn, I'm sorry ...then smile, be cool and breezy (not like you're annoyed or trying to make her feel bad for her needs/choices, even if you are, lol), and say, "Ok, then, we'll have to get together another time. I love your family but I just need some adult time with just us girls. Maybe next time?"

 

And then don't give in! Don't go over there!

[MuddyFootprints]

Her kids are part of the package now. If you can't accept that, make it clear. People and situations change. People move on and friendships stagnate, especially when they are at different stages in their lives.

 

Both of you will get over it.

 

If you're lucky, you'll both send each other a happy birthday greeting on Facebook every year.

[Zapbasket]

Her kids are part of the package now. If you can't accept that, make it clear. People and situations change. People move on and friendships stagnate, especially when they are at different stages in their lives.

 

Both of you will get over it.

 

If you're lucky, you'll both send each other a happy birthday greeting on Facebook every year.

 

Surely the OP can accept (which I think she does) that the kids are part of the package, while also being able reasonably to ask for some one on one time once in a great while? Yes, people and situations change, but that's no reason to just chuck a whole friendship without first trying to negotiate some middle ground.

 

Speak up for what you want, OP, and see where the cards fall.

[snowcones]

Ugh. This is hard. I have kids and I have never disparaged my friends who didn't have kids and didn't "show up". Jeez, how distasteful and immature. I also know that you can feel really alone when your kids are small. This is probably her crying out for help (for friendship and company) but in the wrong way. Now that I am older and don't want to deal with little kids, I sympathize with you. It's hard when you want to connect with your friends, or God forbid, dates, who have little kids.

[fieldoflavender]

So for anyone who is interested - I tried reaching out and asking her out for coffee - no answer. Yeah I think I'm done. I mean there are some friendships where being confrontational is not purposeful.

 

So she can only hang out if I go to her house and spends time with her and her kids. Otherwise there is no value in spending time with me or even trying to explain to me why she can't or something.

 

I just feel like the world revolves around her. She's living with her parents - it's not like she doesn't have help.

 

Yeah I'm done. I am friends with other people who have kids too, and sure they can't do the typical single girl things, but at least they can do basic adult things.

 

In the end, just like a relationship, we all need different things at different stages of our lives - so I don't think there is anything more in that friendship. Oh well, she was a good friend for the years she was present.

[Zapbasket]

 

So she can only hang out if I go to her house and spends time with her and her kids. ...

 

Yeah I'm done. I am friends with other people who have kids too, and sure they can't do the typical single girl things, but at least they can do basic adult things.

 

In the end, just like a relationship, we all need different things at different stages of our lives - so I don't think there is anything more in that friendship. Oh well, she was a good friend for the years she was present.

 

I'm sorry :-( I know how disappointing it is when someone can't or won't work with you to find a middle ground.

[BC1980]

So for anyone who is interested - I tried reaching out and asking her out for coffee - no answer. Yeah I think I'm done. I mean there are some friendships where being confrontational is not purposeful.

 

So she can only hang out if I go to her house and spends time with her and her kids. Otherwise there is no value in spending time with me or even trying to explain to me why she can't or something.

 

I just feel like the world revolves around her. She's living with her parents - it's not like she doesn't have help.

 

Yeah I'm done. I am friends with other people who have kids too, and sure they can't do the typical single girl things, but at least they can do basic adult things.

 

In the end, just like a relationship, we all need different things at different stages of our lives - so I don't think there is anything more in that friendship. Oh well, she was a good friend for the years she was present.

 

 

I completely understand. I have friends with kids, and, of course, I understand that they aren't as flexible with their schedules as I am. Of course, I understand that. But at the same time, I want to spend time with them without their children. Just like I'm sure they want to spend time with their spouses without their children. I have a good friend that has three kids, and we usually meet for lunch on her break from work, which works out great.

 

 

 

On the other hand, the situation with my cousin is not good. She basically went MIA from my life after she had kids. I tried to reach out to her several times, but she stopped even answering texts. I basically decided I was done at that point because I'm not going to beg anyone to be my friend. She has time to post on social media multiple times a day, so I find it hard to believe she can't answer a text at some point. I understand that she's busy, and I understand her kids are her priority. But I never thought she would just remove herself from my life. It's a really disheartening situation when someone won't even meet you halfway. And I've always felt that twinge of guilt for maybe not being understanding enough. Like maybe I'm the problem. I still feel that way sometimes. It's a weird situation, but I've had to learn to move on.

[BC1980]

But what am I supposed to say? I don't want to hang out with your kids? I don't think it's wrong, but somehow it makes me seem like a terrible person.

 

 

This is the hard part in all of this because I've felt the same way. But at the same time, I don't think it's unreasonable to try to find a time when you can see your friend without her kids. I mean, if she genuinely does not have childcare, it would be completely different, but it sounds like she does.