Maybe never having children

[Zapbasket]

[]

 

For myself, I don't bring it up because I find very often people come down hard on women in their late thirties or early forties who say they want children but "can't" for whatever reason--not finding a guy or the right guy, infertility issues, financial constraints, being a caregiver for one's aging/ill parents, etc. There's a shame associated with the whole topic, that's not the woman's shame but a broader social shame: childless women do suffer a certain degree of stigma. It might be less than it once was, but it does still exist and if anything is more pernicious, because it's less politically correct nowadays to express unmasked contempt or pity towards childless women.

 

But I wonder if other childless women (who wanted children) like me feel as I do, like they can't bring up their grief about their childlessness for fear of it being made out to be their fault--that they didn't try hard enough, or do X or Y right thing. Not everyone gives off this attitude, but there are plenty who do, perhaps unintentionally, but they do. So I tend to not talk about it.

 

My desire was to have a child in the context of a stable, loving marriage with a man who wanted to be a father. I grew up without a father due to the untimely death of mine, so I know children of single parents don't end up with two heads or something, but based on my own experience I always knew I wanted to at least start my kid off with two parents. I wasted time in relationships with men who could not / did not want to give me the relationship I was looking for, and then I endured a number of years where for various reasons, despite my very best efforts, things on pretty much every front just did not work out well for me. I'm in the process of turning it all around, but I know I might have to accept that at this point children are not practically in the cards for me, not in the way I want. And I have mixed feelings about that.

 

I do wonder whether as a society we have come to feel "entitled" to being able to have children. It's a natural biological process and certainly requires no special skills to conceive, but biologically it's set up as much for a pregnancy NOT to happen as to happen to term. Certainly with medical advances we can control much more of the process of conceiving than we could before, but we can't ultimately have absolute control. And I wonder if we have forgotten that. I know I never felt entitled to having children, and I never felt my happiness depended upon it, and still don't. But I am very aware that not having children means missing out on a huge part of life, and that it has ramifications on our lives as we age, and those are not small things.

 

What are your thoughts?

Edited September 23, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Merged with re-opened thread

[Tristian]

After some clean-up I'll remind everyone of our civility and respect guidelines here on Loveshack and that our purpose here is to advise and support.

 

If you find it difficult to do that on a specific topic we have plenty others to choose from.

[BaileyB]

I had a very difficult time in my mid-thirties, accepting the fact that I would never have children of my own. What you are feeling is grief - you are grieving the loss of the life you wanted for yourself - and that is very painful. Two things helped me to make peace with the situation.

 

First, I have loved my brothers three children like they are my own. And, they have returned my affection in kind. I have shared in their lives, and they have brought me so much joy. It has been a blessing.

 

Also, I have realized that although I don’t have my own children, I have much to be grateful for in my life. I have felt the love of a close family, I have friends who are like family to me, I have enjoyed career success, I have had grand adventures, and now I have finally found love. There are many people in this world who do not have the blessings that I have received in my life, so I have no right to be sad and every reason to be very grateful.

 

There are simply no guarantees in this life. No guarantee that anyone will find love, or have children, or that they will grow old with their partner, or that their children will grow into kind and responsible individuals, or even that a child will outlive their parent... Nobody’s life is perfect. Nobody gets everything they want. And, nobody goes through life without suffering from loss and grief.

 

I’m sorry that you are sad. I hope you find your own peace. Best wishes.

Edited September 23, 2018 by BaileyB

[BC1980]

[]

 

For myself, I don't bring it up because I find very often people come down hard on women in their late thirties or early forties who say they want children but "can't" for whatever reason--not finding a guy or the right guy, infertility issues, financial constraints, being a caregiver for one's aging/ill parents, etc. There's a shame associated with the whole topic, that's not the woman's shame but a broader social shame: childless women do suffer a certain degree of stigma. It might be less than it once was, but it does still exist and if anything is more pernicious, because it's less politically correct nowadays to express unmasked contempt or pity towards childless women.

 

But I wonder if other childless women (who wanted children) like me feel as I do, like they can't bring up their grief about their childlessness for fear of it being made out to be their fault--that they didn't try hard enough, or do X or Y right thing. Not everyone gives off this attitude, but there are plenty who do, perhaps unintentionally, but they do. So I tend to not talk about it.

 

There is definitely a stigma to being childless. People assume there must be something wrong with you. There's also a lot of isolation involved because you can't relate to many of your friends. It's a little hard for me to see pictures of my friends having birthday parties for their kids because it's not something I can be involved in. I'll be completely honest, and maybe this is weak of me. But I don't go on social media during the holidays. It only serves as a reminder that I don't have a Christmas card to send to anyone.

 

I think people avoid talking about it for a number of reasons. One is that they can't really help you. Another is that it reminds them that they could have been you. It's similar to how people disappear after a death because they don't want to be reminded that they will die one day. That's why I think people wonder if you are to blame. Assigning blame is easier to deal with than admitting that some of life simply comes down to bad luck. I've also noticed a lot of people assume not having kids was your choice.

 

All that said, I don't feel sorry for myself and wouldn't want anyone else to either. I've had tremendous advantages in my life. I've had a really good life and am as content as I can be. One thing that does bother me is what will happen when I get older. When I can't care for myself. I won't have any children to help me out. That is a scary prospect.

[Cora]

I could have written this post myself. Considered it a few times actually, but refrained due to the stigma that’s sometimes associated to childless women of a certain age.

 

I’ll be 36 in November and ever since I was a child, I knew I wanted children of my own. Selfish? Sure, but how is it anymore selfish than any other want? Sure you aren’t talking about just any old want, but actually bringing another life into this world. The way I look at it though is how can that be a bad thing? So many women bring children into this world....women who are on drugs, women who never wanted children and could care less about the children they have and neglect or abuse them. While there are actually good moms out there who adore their children and claim they are the best thing to ever happen to them. And then of course you have women like us who for whatever reason do not have children despite wanting a child so desperately. Women who would love a child unconditionally. How is that any worse than women on drugs or women who could care less about children actually having children?

 

Anyway, circumstances never worked out for me. Like you, while in my early twenties I just assumed I had plenty of time and that things would just magically work out. I mean things came so effortlessly to other women including my friends so why wouldn’t that be the case for me? Well here I am knocking on the door of 36 and still childless.

 

Over the years I listened to my parents make comments like “well I guess we’ll never have grandkids,” “When your father and I were your age we were married and had two kids already.” Those comments kept going up until recently. I figure they finally just gave up on me. Or maybe it’s because at 29 I was diagnosed with MS and they figure kids are out of the question for me now because why would I have kids that I’ll need to take care of when I may eventually not even be able to take care of myself? Now that would be selfish right? A year ago I had one of my aunts make the comment to me “you know you don’t need to be married to have kids....plenty of women are doing it these days.” I didn’t even know how to respond to that. She made it sound so easy like I could just go up to a random guy of my choosing and say “hey you wanna have a kid with me?” And then bam I have a kid. If only it were that easy. I have coworkers and other people tell me all the time when they find out I don’t have kids that “oh you’re so lucky!” Or “don’t ever have any because they are a pain!” Really? I know it’s not all kittens and rainbows, but is it really so bad? If it were then why do women keep having children?

 

What really hurt me though was one day a few months ago while I was at a family gathering, I overheard a conversation my mother and her sisters were having. They were discussing all of us cousins....well everyone except me. They were saying how there were only two of us left to get married and start a family....my younger brother and my cousin whose a few months younger than me. There was no mention of me. At the moment I didn’t know what was worse, years of hearing the same comments on how I need to meet someone and settle down or not even being mentioned anymore. Being completely given up on. Like they know there is no hope for me so why even bother bringing up my name?

 

Over the years I’ve dated multiple guys who were completely wrong for me and a couple I put a lot of faith into who broke my heart into a million pieces. I’ve crashed and burned many times and cried my eyes out about what I could of had, but didn’t. I’ve wallowed in the misery of never having my dream come true of having children. Now I’m working on accepting that fate. I’m slowly giving up on that dream and it kills me. I’m just tired of holding out hope that one day it will happen. For all I know, I may not even be able to have kids. So now I’m just working on having the best life I can for myself...single and childless. I’ve already moved up in my career, considering going back to school and have a few other goals I’m working on. I am genuinely happy. However, it feels like there is still a little piece of me missing and I think there always will be...

 

Guess I just wanted to say I can relate. It’s definitely not easy.

[Els]

Just another viewpoint: having children is not some biological need for ALL woman that is the only purpose of life. I am in late 30s and never wanted children. I have lots of friends with children that constantly complain, just like you said. I don't find their complaining hurtful in the least. In fact, I am just happy that I don't have that life. When I see happy families, all I think about is the hard parts of raising children and how that outward happiness is such a small % of the whole picture, if they are even happy at all. You never know what goes on behind closed doors. So your friends may think that they are making you feel better when they complain. Or they see you as a safe person to express this to, since other people with children prefer to share the joys of parenthood.

 

 

Pretty much this. I have seen marriages/relationships that were otherwise good, just crumble after having children. Usually they don't divorce (because they are "staying together for the kids"), but they cheat, fall into addictions to cope with life, become depressed, etc... the relationship is never the same again and they are miserable in it. IMO, in many cases, children place a LOT of stress on the health of a relationship and the individual parents. Some relationships get through it, some don't. I have also had parents confide in me that while they love their kids, if they could do it all over, they wouldn't have had them.

 

 

This isn't to say that nobody should have kids or that the OP's desires aren't valid. It is absolutely a valid desire and not necessarily "selfish" - at least, not any more selfish than anything that anyone desires in life is. But I also don't think anyone should dismiss the problems of people with children, as if they cannot possibly have the right to complain once they have "attained" this goal. In many cases their misery and unhappiness and frustrations are real, and they have every bit as much right to a soapbox as the OP does.

 

 

As for your ideal situation of a 2 parent dream, well life doesn't turn out like we want. Children die from cancer every day before they even get a chance to go to school. Others fight with pretty awful diseases and circumstances without even having the luxury to think of having children. If you really feel like a "a part of your body is missing" without a child, then get to a fertility clinic ASAP and make it happen. This is something you have the power over. Finding the right partner and falling in love before you are 40 is something that you can't make happen. There is no use in burying your head in the sand about the state of your fertility and playing the "poor me" card. Take some action while you still have the time or you will REALLY have no power to change anything.

 

 

Again, this. The good part about being a woman is that if you really want kids, you have the power to have them regardless of whether you have a partner or not. You DO need to earn good money to singlehandedly support a family while paying for daycare, babysitting, and it will most certainly be exceedingly tough... but all of that is still in your power.

[Leigh 87]

There is definitely a stigma to being childless. People assume there must be something wrong with you. There's also a lot of isolation involved because you can't relate to many of your friends. It's a little hard for me to see pictures of my friends having birthday parties for their kids because it's not something I can be involved in. I'll be completely honest, and maybe this is weak of me. But I don't go on social media during the holidays. It only serves as a reminder that I don't have a Christmas card to send to anyone.

 

I think people avoid talking about it for a number of reasons. One is that they can't really help you. Another is that it reminds them that they could have been you. It's similar to how people disappear after a death because they don't want to be reminded that they will die one day. That's why I think people wonder if you are to blame. Assigning blame is easier to deal with than admitting that some of life simply comes down to bad luck. I've also noticed a lot of people assume not having kids was your choice.

 

All that said, I don't feel sorry for myself and wouldn't want anyone else to either. I've had tremendous advantages in my life. I've had a really good life and am as content as I can be. One thing that does bother me is what will happen when I get older. When I can't care for myself. I won't have any children to help me out. That is a scary prospect.

 

While some mothers fail to bond to their babies and do not have the overwhelming love sort of feelings - I believe that most parents, particularly mothers - feel sorry for women without children. I feel like that are so sad for women who "miss out", that they just don't know how to react around us without being condescending.. like " oh, you and your fur babies will have a GREAT old time this Christmas":sick:" or other platitudes that are totally disingenuous. No one likes having to be assigned to TRY to be nice to the weird new kid right? Well happy mums are sort of like that - they only really talk about how hard it is and how " you can have one of their kids" because they are trying to make us feel better.

 

I think a life without children horrifies most mums so they cannot handle being around the very thing they most feared would happen to them.

 

My mum was never like that, and many women who have a lot of other things going on in their lives are better than many of the mums who ONLY ever wanted to be mums.

 

Just something I also noticed. Although I will probably go on to have kids, being 31 with no major fertility issues detected!

 

I know I'll never act that way towards childless women; at my age, I feel like I could write a book about what NOT to say:sick:

[BluBell]

Generally friendships work two ways - they talk about their problems and you empathize, you talk about your problems and they empathize. It doesn't make sense for you to quietly listen and never talk about your own problems while seething with resentment inside.

 

Pretty much this. I have seen marriages/relationships that were otherwise good, just crumble after having children. Usually they don't divorce (because they are "staying together for the kids"), but they cheat, fall into addictions to cope with life, become depressed, etc... the relationship is never the same again and they are miserable in it. IMO, in many cases, children place a LOT of stress on the health of a relationship and the individual parents. Some relationships get through it, some don't. I have also had parents confide in me that while they love their kids, if they could do it all over, they wouldn't have had them.

 

 

This isn't to say that nobody should have kids or that the OP's desires aren't valid. It is absolutely a valid desire and not necessarily "selfish" - at least, not any more selfish than anything that anyone desires in life is. But I also don't think anyone should dismiss the problems of people with children, as if they cannot possibly have the right to complain once they have "attained" this goal. In many cases their misery and unhappiness and frustrations are real, and they have every bit as much right to a soapbox as the OP does.

 

Again, this. The good part about being a woman is that if you really want kids, you have the power to have them regardless of whether you have a partner or not. You DO need to earn good money to singlehandedly support a family while paying for daycare, babysitting, and it will most certainly be exceedingly tough... but all of that is still in your power.

 

I will say this. Yes, being a parent is extremely difficult. Yes, being a parent can test an otherwise stable relationship. I've seen all those examples play out in real life in my friends' lives, my own family members' lives...I do not live under a rock. There is also an entire section on this website devoted to "Parenting" challenges. They have their place to seek advice, seek consolation, support, complain, you name it.

 

Some women aren't maternal. And some of those women have children regardless. I'm not really here to pass judgment on those circumstances, but I can say that society in general could be a little more sympathetic towards women in my shoes. I have always been extremely cautious in all of my sexual encounters. I take having a child very very seriously and wanted to make sure I did that with the right person under the right circumstances in my life. It almost feels like I am in this situation because I was so cautious and responsible.

 

Just last weekend my cousin's wife suggested I have a one night stand to get pregnant. Now THAT would be selfish. Completely.

 

This past Easter, I was so depressed I could not get out of bed all day. The pain is physically crippling when it hits you like that. If you've never felt that much pain, please don't judge because you don't understand- please consider yourself lucky. Anyway, my best friend called to complain about her stupid future sister in law who apparently "ruined" their entire Easter party by being rude. The issue was so trivial I honestly can't even remember what she was upset about. The woman probably forgot to bring a salad or insulted Her's cooking. Who knows.

 

Finally I said, "J****, I spent my Easter alone, in bed, crying, all day long. I couldn't even bring myself to go to the family dinner. You have these two beautiful amazing baby boys- and you should be enjoying every minute of every day with both of them, these years are going to fly by. L*** is only going to be 4 one time, next year Easter with him will be totally different. I cannot explain how much it hurts that you can't overlook or ignore your stupid idiot brother's fiance and enjoy your day! Don't let her antics ruin your day, that's ridiculous."

 

You will have no idea how hard it was to admit that to my best friend, but she is one of a very small number of people I can handle admitting that to. And she said- "Wow. You're completely right. Thank you for giving me perspective". But I do this all the time with her. It's literally like things are so perfect in her world that she is totally sidetracked by complete BS and misses the beautiful life she has right in front of her. I love her like a sister, so I truly do mean it when I say I don't want her to miss out on her own life in that way.

 

So yes, occasionally I can talk to a friend. It doesn't help though. It just makes the pain worse because I'm admitting it. My friends can't help.

Edited September 26, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[BluBell]

 

All that said, I don't feel sorry for myself and wouldn't want anyone else to either. I've had tremendous advantages in my life. I've had a really good life and am as content as I can be. One thing that does bother me is what will happen when I get older. When I can't care for myself. I won't have any children to help me out. That is a scary prospect.

 

I agree with all you said. And yes, our culture does not treat the elderly well. I visit my grandma in her nursing home often and it's so sad how the people who don't have children are treated. They have no one to advocate for them and make sure diapers are changed, abuse doesn't occur...it's shameful.

 

Although, I also see in the nursing home many women who's adult children can't be bothered to check on them either, so even having children doesn't guarantee that someone will take care of you when you're old.

[BluBell]

I could have written this post myself. Considered it a few times actually, but refrained due to the stigma that’s sometimes associated to childless women of a certain age.

 

<SNIP>

 

Thank you so much for sharing this. Sending you love and hugs from far away.

I think if we all share each other's pain it will be less. I believe that. I'm so sorry about your MS. I've been thinking that my purpose might be to adopt, and I'm actually okay with that. I know I'll be sad to miss the experience of being pregnant, but doing all of this soul searching has shown me that what means more to me is being a mom, however it happens. I'm a work in progress...and learning how to accept these things a little bit every day. Thank you again for sharing.

Edited September 26, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator