A bit cynical from being financially generous to dates...

[RedHead5]

It sounds like you are not actually looking for the woman to share the cost. You are looking for a gesture, an offer to pay for something small, way less than what you are paying. Maybe you can get in touch with your feelings and pinpoint exactly what you are seeking emotionally. Because an offer is not even always that genuine anyway. So even if she offers as a sort of formality, it may not fulfill something else you are seeking.

What would make you happy? I don't think your post is about dating etiquette. I think it has to do with wanting to feel valued?? Not taken for granted?

 

Agree, I don't typically offer because it feels contrived.

[Veronica73]

I don’t know- it seems weird to me that these women aren’t offering anything. I always offer, and usually I end up being the one who pays more and pays more often. The exception was my ex-husband. When we were dating he always wanted to pay. The exception would be on his birthday or on special occasions. Or he’d be okay letting me pay if it was something small that I came up with- like “hey, would you like some ice cream?” or something like that.

 

But I’ve usually been financially better off than most of the guys I have dated. And I’m not THAT well off. So I don’t know. I think the dealbreaker conversation idea is a good one.

 

I’m wondering if these girls are a good deal younger than you. And if they are very attractive. This is going to sound awful, but I think a lot of really attractive women think they are such hot ****, they don’t feel like they need to bring anything else to the table. Especially gorgeous women in their twenties.

[Syre17]

I don’t know- it seems weird to me that these women aren’t offering anything. I always offer, and usually I end up being the one who pays more and pays more often. The exception was my ex-husband. When we were dating he always wanted to pay. The exception would be on his birthday or on special occasions. Or he’d be okay letting me pay if it was something small that I came up with- like “hey, would you like some ice cream?” or something like that.

 

But I’ve usually been financially better off than most of the guys I have dated. And I’m not THAT well off. So I don’t know. I think the dealbreaker conversation idea is a good one.

 

I’m wondering if these girls are a good deal younger than you. And if they are very attractive. This is going to sound awful, but I think a lot of really attractive women think they are such hot ****, they don’t feel like they need to bring anything else to the table. Especially gorgeous women in their twenties.

 

Most of them are around my age...I’m 48. Some in their early 40’s, some right at my age. I think an “aha” moment for me was one who I had been dating a while (she was 46) and I went to Vegas. It was easily a $2500 weekend with the flight, hotel, two shows, meals, drinks, etc. She made a decent living, certainly not strapped for cash, wealthy parents...just to paint the picture. I’ll never forget this...we were at airport and she says “I’m so happy...I just paid $10,000 on my student loan from my savings!” I was partially in shock, but also couldn’t help being cynical thinking to myself “well, it wouldn’t be difficult to save that kind of $ if someone else is footing the bill for everything.” My second thought was wow, one can’t allocate $50 or $100 to treat me once with that kind of savings!?!? She did buy me a cup of coffee one morning at the resort....

 

Lesson learned there... I think I am going to adopt the “dealbreaker” approach that I found and posted earlier and just be upfront and clear. I swear, at times it almost feels or seems like they have an entitlement mentality.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Syre17
Content added

[Veronica73]

Most of them are around my age...I’m 48. Some in their early 40’s, some right at my age. I think an “aha” moment for me was one who I had been dating a while (she was 46) and I went to Vegas. It was easily a $2500 weekend with the flight, hotel, two shows, meals, drinks, etc. She made a decent living, certainly not strapped for cash, wealthy parents...just to paint the picture. I’ll never forget this...we were at airport and she says “I’m so happy...I just paid $10,000 on my student loan from my savings!” I was partially in shock, but also couldn’t help being cynical thinking to myself “well, it wouldn’t be difficult to save that kind of $ if someone else is footing the bill for everything.” My second thought was wow, one can’t allocate $50 or $100 to treat me once with that kind of savings!?!? She did buy me a cup of coffee one morning at the resort...����.

 

Lesson learned there... I think I am going to adopt the “dealbreaker” approach that I found and posted earlier and just be upfront and clear. I swear, at times it almost feels or seems like they have an entitlement mentality.

 

It totally sounds like entitlement mentality. Sometimes I wish I had more of that mentality. I’m amazed women get away with this crap. You deserve better, and I think that “dealbreaker” approach is a great idea. Except that maybe it warns them. And then you don’t know if they are treating you because they genuinely want to treat you, or just because they want to put in the bare minimum. But I guess if they genuinely have always been treated that way, with the man paying all the time, then it is totally normal for them and they might not see anything wrong with it. So giving them a heads up, that you would like to be treated in that way once in awhile too, would be a good idea.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Veronica73
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[preraph]

I hear you. Understand, it isn’t always a Ruth’s Chris type place. That said, even Ruth’s Chris has a wonderful and inexpensive happy hour and I’ve had that for roughly the same cost as Chipotle! Not kidding... My last girlfriend and I would go to a Mexican place she (and I) both liked for taco Tuesday

just about every week. Tacos were $1.50 and beers were $2.00...she still never once even offered to pick up the tab, which was usually way less than $20 for the two of us.

 

I'm from the Southern U.S., and here the more likely scenario is the guy pays, and some women certainly will pay half if they can afford it, pay their own. But how they try to balance it out is women will cook for the man in their home or bake cookies and that sort of thing. So it's not all one-sided. So do none of these women ever ask you over for dinner? Because to me, that is weird. Like why wouldn't they at least have you over to watch a game and make a bunch of snacks at a bare minimum.

 

I have rarely picked up the whole ticket, but once I had any money to eat out, I usually paid for my own food, but it depended on the relationship and whether it was a date-date or a hanging out date.

[Syre17]

I'm from the Southern U.S., and here the more likely scenario is the guy pays, and some women certainly will pay half if they can afford it, pay their own. But how they try to balance it out is women will cook for the man in their home or bake cookies and that sort of thing. So it's not all one-sided. So do none of these women ever ask you over for dinner? Because to me, that is weird. Like why wouldn't they at least have you over to watch a game and make a bunch of snacks at a bare minimum.

 

I have rarely picked up the whole ticket, but once I had any money to eat out, I usually paid for my own food, but it depended on the relationship and whether it was a date-date or a hanging out date.

 

I’m in California, however my family was from the south, so I think I share some of those same “southern” values and norms you mentioned as I was raised that way. Not sure if it’s a “California” thing, though I will say I personally feel like a lot of Californians are very wrapped up in themselves. Not much on the cooking front, unfortunately, nor hosting for a game and some snacks which I’d love! Kind of made me chuckle though just now. The same gal I mentioned about going to Vegas with, had me stay over this one night. We ate out of course...I don’t think she really knew how to cook unfortunately. Next morning, I’m dying for a cup of coffee before I head to work. I’m one of those people who need a cup straight away. Anyway, I asked “do you mind showing me where the coffee is?!?” She replies “I don’t have any right now...I haven’t been to the store in weeks.” So there you have it... I’m just different that way in that I plan and prepare for guests because yeah, those things matter to me. For example, I don’t use cream in my coffee, not sugar ever and I don’t do decaf. But when I’ve had women I’m seeing stay over at my house, I ask them beforehand (or gather what I’ve gleaned and observed are their preferences), what they like, coffee...tea...cream...sugar...bottled water...blah blah blah, list goes on and on and I have it here. I just think that’s kind, respectful and being a good host. At any rate...I do know I have pretty high expectations of myself...maybe they’re just too high on what I’d look for with a woman. But then again, we like and want what we want...

 

Maybe I need to move to the south! Haha

Edited September 16, 2018 by Syre17
Additional content

[mrs rubble]

I think that's a perfectly reasonable expectation, I've always offered to pay my way or split the bill. My husband, however did pay for most dates as I was really struggling with bills and raising my sons. Now we live together I pay for the mortgage, power, internet, all the insurances, land rates and telephone bills. He pays for our sky TV, club memberships, food, car repairs and entertainment.

Off topic: Those taco Tuesday's you mentioned sound amazing! $1.50 for a taco and $2.00 for a beer......food and alcohol is sooo expensive here in NZ.

You pay an average of around $8 for a beer or glass of house wine in a bar here.

[alphamale]

I drive a Lexus. That aside, I’m pretty easy to find on the Internet due to my career, job title, etc. it wouldn’t be difficult in this day and age for a woman to Google me and ascertain that I make a good living. Maybe I should buy and drive a jalopy for dates!?!? Lol

 

no, pick them up in an Uber

[Rocker71]

Well then, you may need to look at the “type” of women you are dating.

 

But, I also suspect that you set it up such that you like to be “the provider.” You have the financial means to take women out and treat them well - I’m sure it is much appreciated and it probably feels good to you to (or you wouldn’t do it). If you want something different, then you need to set your expectations accordingly and communicate that to your date early in the relationship. These women may have the expectation that you will pay for everything because you have in fact, essentially set it up to be just that way...

 

I used to be like you. Last year as a matter of fact. I stopped it though. I'm a very quick learner. Was in a relationship for 7 years and wasn't up on the dating trends of the day. So I did what I thought was right. I paid for everything.

 

One day, stupid me made a date with a woman I was seeing over a period of time at a nice restaurant despite her saying she had to work right after.

I arrived on time, she was sitting there with a glass of wine already!

We ate, spent a little time together. Then she said she had to go to work although the store she worked at closed in 2 hours.

She never heard from me again.

 

Now I stopped with the dinner dates. We'll have either coffee or drinks and see how it goes.

 

Once you set the precedent of always paying, she'll always expect you to pay. And that's how you get used for a nice dinner and dumped when it's all eaten up.

 

Don't be that guy. Be the guy she meets with for drinks and fun AFTER.

 

I learned my lesson.

[Syre17]

I used to be like you. Last year as a matter of fact. I stopped it though. I'm a very quick learner. Was in a relationship for 7 years and wasn't up on the dating trends of the day. So I did what I thought was right. I paid for everything.

 

One day, stupid me made a date with a woman I was seeing over a period of time at a nice restaurant despite her saying she had to work right after.

I arrived on time, she was sitting there with a glass of wine already!

We ate, spent a little time together. Then she said she had to go to work although the store she worked at closed in 2 hours.

She never heard from me again.

 

Now I stopped with the dinner dates. We'll have either coffee or drinks and see how it goes.

 

Once you set the precedent of always paying, she'll always expect you to pay. And that's how you get used for a nice dinner and dumped when it's all eaten up.

 

Don't be that guy. Be the guy she meets with for drinks and fun AFTER.

 

I learned my lesson.

 

I actually don’t have the problem of getting dumped at all. 99% of the time, I’m the dumper. My challenge is that the financial precedent I set out of the gate seems to be ongoing through the course of the relationship and therein is my problem. Agree with you on the low key date suggestion.

[JuneL]

I actually don’t have the problem of getting dumped at all. 99% of the time, I’m the dumper. My challenge is that the financial precedent I set out of the gate seems to be ongoing through the course of the relationship and therein is my problem. Agree with you on the low key date suggestion.

 

Perhaps you’re attracted to high maintenance women? Did they care a lot about their looks? Did you always have to pick them up too?

[Thingsfallapart]

I have the same problem. I’ve been dating my girlfriend for a year and she still doesn’t pay for anything. Recently we went on a weekend away together and I bought her souvenirs and paid for everything. She didn’t even buy me a bottle of water...

 

I don’t mind paying for everything but I expect little gifts or she offers to pay for something so I feel a little appreciated. My salary is ten times my girlfriends but it’s the thought that counts.

I’d like to know that I’m dating someone who thinks about me enough to buy me a drink or water or beer or something....

[kendahke]

Maybe I should buy and drive a jalopy for dates!?!? Lol

 

Some men do... they say it weeds out the gold diggers or something like that...

[kendahke]

I will say I personally feel like a lot of Californians are very wrapped up in themselves.

 

some can be--mainly the transplants who are there to make it in show business; however, not every Californian is like that.

 

Not much on the cooking front, unfortunately, nor hosting for a game and some snacks which I’d love! Anyway, I asked “do you mind showing me where the coffee is?!?” She replies “I don’t have any right now...I haven’t been to the store in weeks.” So there you have it... I’m just different that way in that I plan and prepare for guests because yeah, those things matter to me.

 

Just out of curiosity: did you tell her that these sort of things matter to you in any of the conversations you had with her while first getting to know her? If not, why not? You say it matters to you. She may never have grown up in a house where hospitality was on display--could be because she considers it too Martha Stewart-ish (not saying that's a bad thing--I love MS--just a lot of women aren't into that and the men seem to have no issue with partners who don't cook or clean...)

 

At any rate...I do know I have pretty high expectations of myself...maybe they’re just too high on what I’d look for with a woman.

 

Expectations are future resentments under construction...

 

But then again, we like and want what we want...

 

Maybe I need to move to the south! Haha

 

Don't fish for swordfish in a pond using minnow bait.

[fieldoflavender]

To be honest, it's just as challenging for girls. I would love to really pay 50% for my dinner the first date. But to guys, it is taken as a sign of disinterest so if I like them, I let them pay for it. But of the second date and beyond, I will definitely make sure I pay.

 

If I am clear that I don't want to see the guy again, I would make sure to pay for my own meal.

 

To be honest, I lose sleep when a guy pays for my meal and then he doesn't want to see me again. I get annoyed because had I known that - I would have just picked up 50% of the bill - because like I hate owing people.

 

There's tons of types of girls, and I make a lot so I can afford my own meal. For me it's the gesture on the first date that I'm worth it and the guy isn't super cheap and stingy.

[Lotsgoingon]

You're probably spending too much too soon on women you're dating. And paradoxically by spending so much (even though you can afford it), you devalue your own generosity. Oh, Ruth's Chris was nothing to him. He's loaded.

 

Actually that's wrong. You are still treating someone to a really nice place ... doesn't matter that this treat didn't tax your budget. You are giving your dates a huge gift ... and huge gifts bestowed before you know you can trust the person ... and before the relationship is clearly defined ... often create problems. And you risk corrupting yourself and expecting the other person to treat you well because you treated them to a nice place.

 

On this board, we're constantly talking about making sure the other person is into you and that you like their character and that you've sized them up ... before spending a lot of money on them. Well, I actually think that principle applies to you as well. When you take someone to Ruth's Chris early on, you disrupt the gradual, escalating reciprocity that good relationships are built on.

 

The irony is that you may need to consciously go to more modest places ... because your default date spots are out of line with what most people normally can handle and make sense of.

 

I also worry that by treating people to these really nice places, you are performing ... and then you're getting unsettled later when all your date can see is a performer. Get yourself off the stage ... or at least to a more modest stage and venue. Let these folks come to like you without you spending a lot of money on them.

 

Is there a diner where you could take someone? ... a place where you're not slumming but which you actually like? ... Especially early on ... Your income and wealth would still come through (if that's your concern) ... But I'm betting you would feel freer ... and the door is wide open for the other person to offer to pay. And you get to really talk and see what kind of person your date is.

 

BTW: totally cool that you would be pleased if someone offered you coffee. That's the kind of topic that needs to come up in a conversation before you start treating people to upscale places.

 

I'd hold off on Vegas trips until I knew I was seriously into someone ... and that that someone was seriously into me and knew what I wanted of someone seriously into me. Namely, I'd want them not to see me as an unlimited ATM card (if I had your money) but as a specific, quirky human being looking for a really sharp partner, someone who can make my life better.

[Rocker71]

Perhaps you’re attracted to high maintenance women? Did they care a lot about their looks? Did you always have to pick them up too?

 

Yea I got dumped after paying quite a few times. But since I don't do dinner (wine & dine) dates anymore, or putting out relationship energy I've had better success.

 

One was high maintenance. And I later found out high milage. She was gorgeous for 50. A few wrinkles and barely starting a turkey neck, but nonetheless sexy.

 

She wore makeup, did her hair, long fake nails. She had someone to pay her bills so she could only work a couple days a week.

She would always meet me at the place. She would never want me to pick her up.

 

Likes shows like the Kardashians and housewives of Beverly Hills. She dresses like one of todays teenagers. Always flirting with guys etc. You'd think she was a millionaire's wife.

 

The last couple dates she was saying how she wished she had the money for a chin lift and some type of treatment for her skin. (probably thinking I might offer to pay for that too, in addition to the meal) I caught what she was trying to do and ignored it. Then she said something about wanting a guy to live with so that she could sell her house. I ignored that too.

 

I no longer contact her.

[Els]

I’m curious to gather peoples perspectives on dating and who pays for what, when, for how long, etc.

 

I’m single, and somewhat old fashioned, meaning that I always pay for the first and many if not most subsequent dates entirely and feel an obligation to do so. I enjoy good food, nice wine and always take my dates or women who am I romantically involved with to nice places...think Ruth’s Chris and that level of establishment.

 

I also make a great living and do tend to be generous to a fault. I’ve also paid (entirely) for some pretty lavish trips that I’ve taken women who I’ve dated longer term on. What has made me a bit cynical (ok a lot cynical) however, is that I find that the vast majority of women won’t even offer to do so much as buy me a beer when we’re a half dozen dates or more in (or on a trip). I’m a pretty easy fellow to please and I think for me, just offering is huge, and I’d probably decline their offfer anyway.

 

That said, if they insisted on picking up the tab for a cocktail, or a bottle of wine, I’d be thrilled, grateful and happy with just that small gesture. I should add, I’ve dated women from all financial levels, some didn’t make a lot of money and some made a ton of it, but it seems to be universal to me regardless of their financial picture.

 

Again, want to be clear that I’m happy paying for most everything but is it too much to expect for a woman to buy (or at least offer) me a drink or maybe pay for a meal on a nice trip?!?!? What is everyone’s perspective? If you’ve experienced this, how did you deal with it?

 

Thanks for the insight everyone!

 

 

You probably need to be more discerning about who you treat to dates. IMO, the main problem with being an old-fashioned dater in "modern dating" is that the same rules don't necessarily apply. In "old-fashioned dating", dating someone is a fairly big deal - people don't go on dates with 5 different people a week or with people they don't know. They normally get to know each other as friends first, or were introduced by mutual friends or family. So there is a sort of "protection", where it is less likely that your date will be looking to take advantage of you.

 

 

I think you should be more careful with your spending until you know the woman well enough. Don't spend thousands of dollars treating someone to a lavish trip when they haven't treated you to a beer before.

[preraph]

I’m in California, however my family was from the south, so I think I share some of those same “southern” values and norms you mentioned as I was raised that way. Not sure if it’s a “California” thing, though I will say I personally feel like a lot of Californians are very wrapped up in themselves. Not much on the cooking front, unfortunately, nor hosting for a game and some snacks which I’d love! Kind of made me chuckle though just now. The same gal I mentioned about going to Vegas with, had me stay over this one night. We ate out of course...I don’t think she really knew how to cook unfortunately. Next morning, I’m dying for a cup of coffee before I head to work. I’m one of those people who need a cup straight away. Anyway, I asked “do you mind showing me where the coffee is?!?” She replies “I don’t have any right now...I haven’t been to the store in weeks.” So there you have it... I’m just different that way in that I plan and prepare for guests because yeah, those things matter to me. For example, I don’t use cream in my coffee, not sugar ever and I don’t do decaf. But when I’ve had women I’m seeing stay over at my house, I ask them beforehand (or gather what I’ve gleaned and observed are their preferences), what they like, coffee...tea...cream...sugar...bottled water...blah blah blah, list goes on and on and I have it here. I just think that’s kind, respectful and being a good host. At any rate...I do know I have pretty high expectations of myself...maybe they’re just too high on what I’d look for with a woman. But then again, we like and want what we want...

 

Maybe I need to move to the south! Haha

 

It's nice to think ahead, but not with first dates, though. It could even look desperate.

 

The trouble with showing your money right away is the age-old problem: You will attract gold-diggers. So don't do it. I realize men see it sometimes as a tool to date up, but just don't do it right away and set yourself up to date down by attracting gold-diggers, because that is the more realistic scenario. Leave that for someone who likes you for who you are.

 

I'm a disappointment on the coffee front. I don't even keep coffee in the house because I don't drink it and the smell of it brewing makes me nauseous. But if I was dating someone awhile, I'd go get a coffeemaker and be prepared.

 

Realize that some young women simply don't have the money to even buy stuff for a nice dinner and are probably living off of bologna sandwiches, beans, eggs and boxed mac and cheese. That was me for some years. As soon as I made more money, I started learning how to cook better. Still, if they show zero interest in cooking, I'd be disappointed with that. But if they could even make a good omelet, I'd be hopeful.

[CollinW]

You need to do some introspection and find out what your personal standards are for women. Then you ne to gain some self worth outside of your income to where you feel confident enough to enforce your own expectations of the women you date.

 

You need to let these women know you have money and are willing to spread it but only if she deems herself worthy. It's literally the same thing she's doing to you, only difference is society is enforcing her standards while you'll have to be explicit with it.

[Versacehottie]

I drive a Lexus. That aside, I’m pretty easy to find on the Internet due to my career, job title, etc. it wouldn’t be difficult in this day and age for a woman to Google me and ascertain that I make a good living. Maybe I should buy and drive a jalopy for dates!?!? Lol

 

First of all, i think it's great the way that you are generous. If I'm hearing you right, I think you just want an attempt to pay from your dates every now and then and some actual paying every now and then so you don't feel "used" and unappreciated. lol, maybe you should stop being so good at being chivalrous?

 

I think you should a) start with a little more medium level places, dates, expenses--not for the cost per se but to set the bar at a level where the dates are more about you two and less about the materialistic parts of the date. I have some successful guy friends who purposely do this because they feel more comfortable about it.

 

OR you need to make personal peace with the fact that nicer restaurants and wine etc are something you like to do and it's worth it to you to test your compatibility with someone who enjoys similar things as a lifestyle no matter who is paying for it (i.e. make peace with the fact that you likely will be paying but change your perspective as to "why").

 

b) I think this is the best option: date other types of girls! The type that will offer to pay here and there (i would think that would happen for sure by the 3rd date! for some portion of it at least!). A quality girl IMO would worry that you would be worried of being used and would want to offset or counter anything that might be giving that impression. One way to do this is to do multiple things on a date, like go to 3 places (drinks at one place, dinner, activity)... That's a perfect opportunity for her to pay for one.

 

Good luck!!

[Highndry]

Unless you're a hedge fund manager with an 8 figure net worth, I don't think restaurants like Ruth's Chris are appropriate early on. It's not that only people with 8 figure incomes can afford a dinner at such a place, it's just that those are the kinds of people who could eat there every day for the rest of their lives and not even bat an eye.

 

You're portraying an image of yourself that money is no object. I don't know about you, but that's not what I'd want prospective partners to think. Save those types of dinners for your long term girlfriend/wife.

[I'veseenbetterlol]

I’m curious to gather peoples perspectives on dating and who pays for what, when, for how long, etc.

 

I’m single, and somewhat old fashioned, meaning that I always pay for the first and many if not most subsequent dates entirely and feel an obligation to do so. I enjoy good food, nice wine and always take my dates or women who am I romantically involved with to nice places...think Ruth’s Chris and that level of establishment.

 

I also make a great living and do tend to be generous to a fault. I’ve also paid (entirely) for some pretty lavish trips that I’ve taken women who I’ve dated longer term on. What has made me a bit cynical (ok a lot cynical) however, is that I find that the vast majority of women won’t even offer to do so much as buy me a beer when we’re a half dozen dates or more in (or on a trip). I’m a pretty easy fellow to please and I think for me, just offering is huge, and I’d probably decline their offfer anyway.

 

That said, if they insisted on picking up the tab for a cocktail, or a bottle of wine, I’d be thrilled, grateful and happy with just that small gesture. I should add, I’ve dated women from all financial levels, some didn’t make a lot of money and some made a ton of it, but it seems to be universal to me regardless of their financial picture.

Again, want to be clear that I’m happy paying for most everything but is it too much to expect for a woman to buy (or at least offer) me a drink or maybe pay for a meal on a nice trip?!?!? What is everyone’s perspective? If you’ve experienced this, how did you deal with it?

 

Thanks for the insight everyone!

 

That's not being cynical, that's wanting to be respected. My bf and I have been dating for a little while and we switch off picking up the tab. I do feel flattered when he pays for me (he did on the 1st couple of dates), but I respect him as well, so I do help him out.

 

I understand your frustration as I have dated a bum who let me pay a lot of things on my own. This guy was long distance. I visited him 2x, paid for my flight, motel for the 2nd trip (only stayed one day the 1st time) and for most of the transportation for both of us (lyft, uber etc). He came down to visit once, he did pay for the flight, but I picked up the bill for a lot that we did, despite letting him stay over and feeding him. Yes he was broke (red flag lol) and I felt bad, but now I understand that he was plain selfish and lazy. I really think a relationship should be helping each other, not expecting one person to pick up the tab for everything.