The 2018 Dating Scene

[vla1120]

I just need to know if 20-30 somethings ALL date like this., or is it just my daughters?

 

My daughters are 34, 29, and 22. The youngest one is engaged to her middle school sweetheart. They live on opposite coasts but they are making plans for the future. I don't worry about her.

 

My 34 year old has had no luck with dating. She had a couple serious relationships when she was younger. None of them lasted (thankfully, because they were all disastrous.) She has all of these "rules" for dating - no one who has been married before, no one with children, no one she works with, etc. If she exchanges numbers with someone, they must text her first. After a date, if she hears from him too soon, that's bad. If she hears from him later than expected, that's bad too. (She talks about these contact rules like it's widely known in her age group.) She seems to be attracted to jerks, for some reason and she wasted SO much time with them in her 20's, now she feels her biological clock is ticking, so when she does meet someone, I think she automatically starts sizing them up as to whether they are marriage material. I joke with her that she is text book example of why there should be arranged marriages (half joking, really.)

 

My 29 year old had one serious relationship - her first love in her senior year of HS. That lasted about 5 years. Since then, she has this philosophy that she wants NO boyfriend, just casual relationships. Well, she had a "casual relationship" with a guy for about 6 years. They agreed to never go beyond casual, then, she found out from someone that he was seeing another girl. She put an end to their casual relationship because she didn't want to be the OW, though she did ask him why he never wanted to move any further with her, but was willing to call this new girl his girlfriend. (Clearly, my daughter would have gone to the next level with this guy, but he always made it clear they were casual.) She was devastated, as it turns out. Since then, she won't even "date" anyone. She can say all she wants that she doesn't want a boyfriend, but she's too sensitive to just remain casual with someone, especially for an extended period. She also has the same type of contact rules as her older sister. If someone texts her, she waits a specific period of time before answering, etc.

 

Is it REALLY this hard to date in 2018?? (I'm also told "date" is an antiquated term.) In my day, if you were attracted to someone, you struck up a conversation. If you wanted to see each other again, you exchanged numbers and called one another. What the heck?

 

Or is it my daughters? I will admit, they did not grow up with an example of a healthy, loving relationship. Their dad and I stayed together for 32 years, but it wasn't always a good example. I worry and wonder if that is the reason they can't seem to find a decent guy who will treat them right.

 

Thoughts?

[smackie9]

Yup that's about right from all the threads I have read and given advice on. IMO their rules are to weed out the needy, and to find those who show that they (your daughters) are valued, not be played. Like most that come here, they have walls up and are bitter because of their past experiences. Does it help them? No because that isn't their problem..their problem is that they make poor choices, and ignore the red flags. That's why they are unsuccessful.

Edited September 30, 2018 by smackie9

[guest569]

I would say it is fairly common. Your daughter's rules seem reasonable to me.

 

What is it that worries you about their not being married?

[some_username1]

I would say it is fairly common. Your daughter's rules seem reasonable to me.

 

What is it that worries you about their not being married?

 

What is reasonable about texting too early or too late? Arbitrary rules that no man can know in advance- how is that anything other than self-sabotaging?

 

My advice to OP is to tell her daughters to invest in some cats because any good catch of a man is going to see these games a mile off and run for the hills. No wonder they end up casually dating *******s, they are the only men left who will put up with their drama because they are full of it themselves.

 

And FWIW I'm getting on for late 30's and have all but given up on women in their 30's. They have been spoiled by social media and act as the OP describes: petty games, stupid rules and cancel dates at the drop of a hat because they partied too hard the night before.

 

Since i have started to date older women in their early 40's it's like night and day. Just a hunch but I suspect by the time they reach that age they realise that in order to compete with younger women they can't take as many liberties so are straight shooters and easier to deal with and don't flake on dates.

[smackie9]

Now mind you, there are a lot of players, creepers, jerks and bitter nice guys that they have to watch for on these dating sites. But I don't think their dating rules help the with this very much. They are not alone tho. Many struggle with reading their date's intentions and take it the wrong way only to make things worse for themselves. Dating has never been easy. The same issues are still there, just exasperated by social media and IM.

[Happy Lemming]

Arbitrary rules that no man can know in advance- how is that anything other than self-sabotaging?

^^^^This -- 100% Agree.

 

I've been dating since the early 80's, if a woman is too much work or has too many rules, I'm out of there and going for something easier. 2018 or 1981, nothing all that different. I will agree with "smackie9" that social media has thrown in a new twist to the whole dating scene, but dating is still basically the same.

 

Plenty of women out there.

 

NEXT!!

[Andy_K]

My 34 year old has had no luck with dating. She had a couple serious relationships when she was younger. None of them lasted (thankfully, because they were all disastrous.) She has all of these "rules" for dating - no one who has been married before, no one with children, no one she works with, etc.

 

Your 34 year old needs a reality check. At that age, realistically she's mostly going to be dating guys in the 35-45 age group. If a guy who is in the ballpark of 40 hasn't got a previous marriage or one or more kids, there's a very high chance it's because either he has no intention of ever getting serious, or else there's something very wrong with him.

 

And those contact rules they're both using, and the 29 year old wanting to be single but being upset she didn't get a commitment... it sounds like they're very much the type of slightly crazy forever single girls that online dating sites are full of. They apply these arbitrary rules because they completely lack the skills to judge someone's character any other way, and it just doesn't work.

[elaine567]

If a guy who is in the ballpark of 40 hasn't got a previous marriage or one or more kids, there's a very high chance it's because either he has no intention of ever getting serious, or else there's something very wrong with him.

Maybe but single people often do not want to get mixed up with messy divorces, exes and other people's kids.

a) they are often ill-equipped to be step parents

and

b) they don't want to be second wives or step parents.

She has had enough of no hopers, she is filtering out the ones she just doesn't want, nothing really wrong with that surely?

 

 

And those contact rules they're both using, and the 29 year old wanting to be single but being upset she didn't get a commitment...

Yes this daughter was kind of stupid, 6 years casual doesn't turn into marriage and kids, it turns into being dumped when the girl of his dreams...

shows up, or she is slotted into the OW slot when he fancies having two women in tow. She apparently knowingly wasted 6 years of her life...

[guest569]

Your 34 year old needs a reality check. At that age, realistically she's mostly going to be dating guys in the 35-45 age group. If a guy who is in the ballpark of 40 hasn't got a previous marriage or one or more kids, there's a very high chance it's because either he has no intention of ever getting serious, or else there's something very wrong with him.

 

Not really. There are plenty of 34 Yr old lone fish in the sea. She is not obligated to date a 45 yo with 2 ex wives and 4 kiddies if she doesn't want to.

 

I agree that she should not be too rigid about contact rules. But personally after a 1st date if several days go by and I've heard nothing then I would lose interest quickly or assume he is not interested in me. If he texts straight away I think it's OK.

 

The middle child, casually dating for years and years is just her. It's not normal. Usually casual fizzles out in weeks or months or a few nights.

[Andy_K]

Not really. There are plenty of 34 Yr old lone fish in the sea. She is not obligated to date a 45 yo with 2 ex wives and 4 kiddies if she doesn't want to.

 

The attractive, mentally stable, eligible 34 year old guys with no kids or marriages are mostly dating girls in their mid to late twenties. So are many of the 34 year old guys who do have baggage for that matter. There are always exceptions if the girl is attractive enough or the guy isn't.

 

The trouble with having 'rules' in place is your example above... a 45 year old guy with 2 ex wives and 4 kids becomes equally as bad as a 35 year old guy with no kids who was once married for a few years in his mid twenties and hasn't had any contact with the ex since. Is the latter really a totally undateable prospect? He's probably more relationship oriented than most of the never marrieds.

 

Past 30 almost every available person you meet will have some sort of baggage. If it's not something tangible like a marriage or kids, it's something psychological instead, which can be kept hidden longer but be far harder to deal with. Singles have to pick their battles wisely!

[elaine567]

Past 30 almost every available person you meet will have some sort of baggage. If it's not something tangible like a marriage or kids, it's something psychological instead, which can be kept hidden longer but be far harder to deal with. Singles have to pick their battles wisely!

 

 

.. or it could be both.

Not all divorcees are psychologically sound either, so not only an ex and kids, but also a guy who is "damaged" by his marriage/divorce or is not really marriage material in the first place, hence the divorce - great fun...

Everyone has filters, they sometimes do remove great swathes of the dating population, but it is what it is.

We all know what we like and don't like.

We thus use our experience and knowledge to sift out those who we feel do not make the grade of people we would wish to date and form a relationship with.

This girl is not being weird with her filters, they are pretty common in people who have never been married or had kids.

[vla1120]

Wow. You have all given me some insight into the situation. I do keep telling my daughters that the random "rules" might eliminate "the one" if they are not careful. I also tell them they should just go with the flow and not think so hard about what every move a guy makes means. I want to suggest that they come out to this site and read some of the experiences out here. Maybe they would recognize that they're making this whole dating thing MUCH too complicated and there ARE decent guys still out there. I do understand my daughter's rule about not wanting a guy previously married and/or with kids because of the ex-wife of one of her serious relationships who stalked her online, called her work, and generally made her life a living hell. Not all exes are like that, though. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water.

[vla1120]

I would say it is fairly common. Your daughter's rules seem reasonable to me.

 

What is it that worries you about their not being married?

 

I am not at all worried about them not being married. In fact, marriage is one of those societal expectations that I raised them not to worry about adhering to just because it is what is "expected" by society.

 

I do know both of them do want children one day. I'd rather see them have the benefit of a long-term relationship or at least an active dad for their kids. Given my own relationship history, I would never put the pressure of marriage on any of them, but I AM glad they grew up with a dad - something I missed out on, myself.

[No_Go]

I see the behavior of the 34 yo as most risky. I was like this around 30 and ended up in a relationship with extremely bad match for a couple of years. My only criteria was 'good enough' because it was time for me to get pregnant Well - thankfully we separated, and this gave me a whole new perspective. I gave it a few months to reset, then fell for a guy that I met online - didn't work out, but who cares - it achieved the complete 'reset'. Soon after I found my BF at work, and although it was a funny situation (common workplace, he was going through divorce, age difference etc), all just clicked in place. 9 months so far, I feel zero urges to nag him into 'serious' commitment because I see his love every single day. I believe he's the person who will be with me for the long run, and I'm convinced it works so well because there is no pressure, 'talks' and BS. Everything just follows its natural course:)

 

Your 29 years old - I believe she was genuine she just wants casual relationship, but then her clock started ticking. I think it's hormonal, both I and all my girlfriends experienced it in one degree or another on the verge of 30.

 

Dating is not more difficult now than in any other time. Relationship dynamics is only different on the surface. Evolution is a slow process, but we humans like to laughably reject this. Behavioral and sexual dynamics is not that complicated and easy to master. But not to digress, my point is dating is easy - there are plenty of choices for anyone reasonably attractive and open to mating.

[Logo]

These days, rules about texting or calling and communication in general have become a circus.

 

Instead of being glad that a guy is interested in her and is showing interest, a 20 or 30 something will ignore that guy preferring the one who texts her 4 days later with a, "You look lonely. Need some company?" Over the guy who might text with a more mature message two days after getting a woman’s number. . I have a couple of male friends who are immature for their age and women seem to be attracted to that simplistic approach. The only caveat is that these two friends are only interested in casual relationships. Women like them because they see them as entertaining bad boys. Not my cup of tea, but to each their own.

 

As a guy, I have heard from women and experienced it myself how they play these games thinking they have unlocked the secret to time travel. “Don't text him back right away, wait an hour or more....”.

 

The same women who take selfies everywhere they go just to post them on Instagram or Snapchat or Facebook are the same ones who make up arbitrary rules about avoiding contact with men who have selfies in their profiles on OLD.

Allegedly, if a guy has a couple of selfies then he has no friends and is a creep.

 

Trying to wrap one’s mind around the banality of these rules makes one wonder if there are any sane people out there.

 

I don’t know what rules men apply, but what I mentioned above is from personal experience and observations and it applies to women in both real life and online.

 

The mentally mature women out there in their 30s, the age group that I’m going for, are few and far between. Trying to find one that is honest, mature and stable is like finding a needle in a haystack. Apparently women that post here feel the same about men. So who knows what's the culprit.

 

These arbitrary rules have become more and more arbitrary in the last 10 years.

 

Twenty years ago, when social media didn't exist, life was so much simpler. You meet someone. You get a number. You call her a couple of days later and you go out. If things work out, great. If they don't, then that’s ok too.

 

She doesn't sit by the phone with the phone book open calling every guy in town to see if his grass is greener.

 

But these days? Forget about it. It’s a shopping mall and humans have become a commodity.

 

I don’t know who’s to blame or what's to blame. I don’t even know if these are the symptoms of one or two factors. I think there are other factors at play, including ridiculous TV shows like the Bachelor or the Bachelorette and other so-called reality shows that are actually scripted to the last detail, but give the illusion that this is real life.

 

As for me, if I feel that a woman is playing games I move on. I’m not going to sit here and try to figure this random formula that she’s put in her head thinking she can use it on every Tom Dick and Harry.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Logo

[vla1120]

These days, rules about texting or calling and communication in general have become a circus.

 

Instead of being glad that a guy is interested in her and is showing interest, a 20 or 30 something will ignore that guy preferring the one who texts her 4 days later with a, "You look lonely. Need some company?" Over the guy who might text with a more mature message two days after getting a woman’s number. . I have a couple of male friends who are immature for their age and women seem to be attracted to that simplistic approach. The only caveat is that these two friends are only interested in casual relationships. Women like them because they see them as entertaining bad boys. Not my cup of tea, but to each their own.

 

As a guy, I have heard from women and experienced it myself how they play these games thinking they have unlocked the secret to time travel. “Don't text him back right away, wait an hour or more....”.

 

The same women who take selfies everywhere they go just to post them on Instagram or Snapchat or Facebook are the same ones who make up arbitrary rules about avoiding contact with men who have selfies in their profiles on OLD.

Allegedly, if a guy has a couple of selfies then he has no friends and is a creep.

 

Trying to wrap one’s mind around the banality of these rules makes one wonder if there are any sane people out there.

 

I don’t know what rules men apply, but what I mentioned above is from personal experience and observations and it applies to women in both real life and online.

 

The mentally mature women out there in their 30s, the age group that I’m going for, are few and far between. Trying to find one that is honest, mature and stable is like finding a needle in a haystack. Apparently women that post here feel the same about men. So who knows what's the culprit.

 

These arbitrary rules have become more and more arbitrary in the last 10 years.

 

Twenty years ago, when social media didn't exist, life was so much simpler. You meet someone. You get a number. You call her a couple of days later and you go out. If things work out, great. If they don't, then that’s ok too.

 

She doesn't sit by the phone with the phone book open calling every guy in town to see if his grass is greener.

 

But these days? Forget about it. It’s a shopping mall and humans have become a commodity.

 

I don’t know who’s to blame or what's to blame. I don’t even know if these are the symptoms of one or two factors. I think there are other factors at play, including ridiculous TV shows like the Bachelor or the Bachelorette and other so-called reality shows that are actually scripted to the last detail, but give the illusion that this is real life.

 

As for me, if I feel that a woman is playing games I move on. I’m not going to sit here and try to figure this random formula that she’s put in her head thinking she can use it on every Tom Dick and Harry.

 

...and that’s the thing. These are two women who have good jobs and are responsible, kind, likable women - and yes, I am their mom, so I am biased, but they are also attractive, so I don’t understand why they think they need to have these ridiculous rules.

 

One problem I do know is that the 34 yr old looks about 18. When she was 25, she looked about 13. She is barely five foot and the guys that hit on her are always early 20’s. Guys her age think she looks too young, apparently.

[guest569]

One problem I do know is that the 34 yr old looks about 18. When she was 25, she looked about 13. She is barely five foot and the guys that hit on her are always early 20’s. Guys her age think she looks too young, apparently.

 

Interesting. Many men on these forums insist that women over 30 will have a hard time dating a man her own age as they want teens or young 20s, but looks like your daughter has the opposite issue. Which may work in her favour as people are marrying and reproducing later and later.

 

I do agree that some rules about follow up texts are too rigid. But I can see where she is coming from. I remember being really taken aback after my first date when the man texted within 20 mins and I was just getting into my house. That was fast.. This day in age though it is more common to send or receive a very quick text the night of the date or the next day. If I don't hear from them within a couple of days at least a "thanks for a lovely evening" then I assume disinterest. Even if he does send a text he might be just being polite.

 

I don't seek a divorced man but could be swayed or those with kids, out of the question. My ex casually mentioned he was divorced after a few months together. Thankfully didn't have hidden offspring. He had some baggage but no more or less than any other man I have dated. But a previous marriage is a big deal.

 

I'm just rambling on and probably unhelpful.

[Chilli]

My day was probly something like your day even if l'm in a different country, it was as simple as that for us too back when, still is now here really .

maybe like you too , not sure but l'm divorced now and with someone else but l've still never dated in my life and still don;t hear it much here and l like the old school girls when l was looking and found them much the same as me in those ways.

But l cringe here though now and then because l do hear some of the youngies these days talking like dating and all the bs and crap that's all over the net so sadly it's slowly spreading to here too.

 

All seems like such bs , can't get my head round it.

Mu daughter's 17 now though too but thankfully she's just naturally old school too , really got her head screwed on.

we often chuckle at the bs out there , thankfully she see's straight through it all.

She's had a steady bf 2yrs now , spose they'll split one day but she's so effg together it won't be a worry. ahh, l hope !

Edited October 2, 2018 by Chilli

[elaine567]

The mentally mature women out there in their 30s, the age group that I’m going for, are few and far between. Trying to find one that is honest, mature and stable is like finding a needle in a haystack. Apparently women that post here feel the same about men. So who knows what's the culprit.

The real culprit is the dating game, it is brutal and bruising and even the most mature and stable man or woman can struggle to hold onto "sanity" in the face of "love gone wrong". Most can handle the death of a short term or casual fling, but most will be shaken to the core when the love of their life goes "Sorry I don't love you any more, I see no future" or is caught in the arms of someone else... years of love down the drain...

At the back of just about every immature, unstable person in the dating game is some romantic misadventure or misadventures.

It is not easy to remain honest, mature and stable when they can't trust anyone any more or worse want payback...

[Malin889]

 

And FWIW I'm getting on for late 30's and have all but given up on women in their 30's. They have been spoiled by social media and act as the OP describes: petty games, stupid rules and cancel dates at the drop of a hat because they partied too hard the night before.

 

Since i have started to date older women in their early 40's it's like night and day. Just a hunch but I suspect by the time they reach that age they realise that in order to compete with younger women they can't take as many liberties so are straight shooters and easier to deal with and don't flake on dates.

 

Wow, a man dating older, I like that! I’m in my early 40s and I put my age range for men as my age —above and so far, not too much luck. Maybe I’ll change the age range to late 30s. :-)

[smackie9]

Wow, a man dating older, I like that! I’m in my early 40s and I put my age range for men as my age —above and so far, not too much luck. Maybe I’ll change the age range to late 30s. :-)

I highly recommend it.

[No_Go]

One problem I do know is that the 34 yr old looks about 18. When she was 25, she looked about 13. She is barely five foot and the guys that hit on her are always early 20’s. Guys her age think she looks too young, apparently.

 

I think that's largely a matter of styling. High heels, natural make up, 'mature' hairstyle and fitted clothes and she'll look like a new woman.

 

It also depends what kind of man she's willing to attract but at her age IMO it doesn't make sense to chase boys, I'd say 35-50 is the best age range for a woman that age (I'm going to be 34 in a month so I can say it from first-hand experience:))

[Chilli]

The real culprit is the dating game, it is brutal and bruising and even the most mature and stable man or woman can struggle to hold onto "sanity" in the face of "love gone wrong". Most can handle the death of a short term or casual fling, but most will be shaken to the core when the love of their life goes "Sorry I don't love you any more, I see no future" or is caught in the arms of someone else... years of love down the drain...

At the back of just about every immature, unstable person in the dating game is some romantic misadventure or misadventures.

It is not easy to remain honest, mature and stable when they can't trust anyone any more or worse want payback...

 

 

God sounds like a nightmare, think l'd just stay single.

[elaine567]

God sounds like a nightmare, think l'd just stay single.

I thought you had a woman, hopefully she is one of the honest, mature and stable ones...

[Chilli]

I thought you had a woman, hopefully she is one of the honest, mature and stable ones...

 

 

Yeah , she is.

But to be in that scene you described l mean , sounds tough.