Dysfunctional relationship between father/son

[mphilly127]

Hello all,

 

I could go on forever with the details of this, but for brevity's sake, I'll try to condense into a Cliff's Notes version. A little background; my parents divorced when I was 4, on bad terms, and never communicated afterwards, which put a big strain on me growing up. In retrospect, I feel like I was some kind of proxy of their terrible relationship. Their marriage ended because my Dad left for another woman, whom he later married, and he's repeated this pattern throughout his life. He was married previously to his marriage to my Mom, and left his first wife for my Mom. He's since left his 3rd wife for another woman, after 25 years in that marriage.

 

Growing up was continuously turbulent for me, and I often felt like a burden to my parents. My mother was/is likely bi-polar, but has not been or sought a diagnosis. I can understand why my father left her, but I don't think he went about it the right way through adultery.

 

One big incident in my life happened when I was about 13 or 14 years old. I played baseball, and a friend of mine on the team was moving halfway across the country. One of the mothers on the team commented to my father that she was sorry that I was moving, or something to that effect. My memory is a bit foggy, because this happened a little over 20 years ago, and I've realized I have forgotten a lot about my adolescence, maybe as a mechanism to protect myself from feeling hurt. Well, my father flew off the handle because of this, and accused me and my mother of secretly plotting to move a couple of thousand miles away without him knowing. I can't remember what all took place immediately afterwards, but I do recall he picked me up one Wednesday night and took me to dinner, and told me that he wasn't going to see me anymore. I was obviously very upset my father was going to exit my life. So for about two years, he wasn't in my life.

 

Right around the age of 16, we reconciled, but didn't discuss the past too much from what I can remember. We've had a somewhat good relationship since, albeit distant, and mostly because of my choosing. I had a drug problem for about four years (around 2010 to 2014), and during that time, I lashed out at him about the past, and said some things I regret. I seemed to have no filter, and my life was becoming a mess of my own making. I went to in-patient drug rehab in early 2015, and have been clean since. I've done well in my life otherwise; I have a very stable career and a nice income. I met my now-wife in 2015, and we had a child in 2016. When my daughter was born, my father and I really started to patch things up, as we both wanted him to be involved with my daughter's life. Things have gone well the past 2.5 years, and we have our second child on the way in about 3 weeks.

 

This past weekend, I was out on some acreage my Dad recently purchased helping him clear some brush, etc. I brought 2 of my friends with me to help clear the land. the plan has been that at some point in the next 2-3 years, we'll subdivide the land and my family will live on half of the property. It seemed to be a great arrangement, as he's in his mid-60's, recovering from prostate cancer, and I would be able to help him maintain the property as he gets older, and he'd get to live next to his grandkids.

 

After a morning and early afternoon of hard work, we started to relax, and my friends and I started drinking, as did my Dad (he only had a couple of beers). We started playing horseshoes, and one of my friends started bragging about how great my life is going to my Dad. my Dad started telling him about his role in my life, and how he's helped me (probably taking a lot more credit than was due, according to my firend), and my friend mentioned something about him being in and out of my life. That's when my Dad said that it was my fault that he left my life when I was a teenager. I flew into a rage. I asked (yelled in a rage), "you seriously believe it was your 14 year old son's fault that you left his life?!", and he emphatically said, "yes!". I couldn't believe it. I repeated the question two or three more times with the same result. My friends were restraining me as all of this happened because I was flipping the hell out about it. I calmed somewhat, and yelled that we needed to go to counselling, and he said, "No!". He walked off into the house on the property, and we didn't talk the rest of the night. My friends and I camped on the property, as planned, and left the next morning. On the road back home the next morning, I called my uncle (Dad's brother) to tell him about it. My uncle was disappointed all of that happened, but understood my rage. He talked to my Dad about it, and my Dad was angry, basically said he's 66 years old, he's not going to counselling for something that happened over 20 years ago, and he's tired of talking about it, and hung up on my uncle.

 

So, I don't know what to do about this. I almost feel sorry for him, because his 2nd grandchild is 3 weeks away, but I don't want him in my life right now, maybe not ever again, if he's unwilling to work through this with me. My uncle (his brother), texted me, "He thinks it all about him. He has no concept of being a father. If he did he would have been relentless about being in your life. He took the easy way out and just walked away. I don’t think he knows how to love and care for anyone but himself. It shows with all his relationships and even mom and dad."

 

Am I a bad person if I keep him away from my family and have nothing to do with him for the foreseeable future? I apologize for the length of this post; I tried to keep it as brief as I can while still providing all relevant info.

[Mr. Lucky]

Two comments -

 

- I unfortunately have way too much up close experience with addiction amongst family members, some of them in recovery, some not. None of those successfully sober, regardless of the substance they abused, drink alcohol, it's simply allows an addict to substitute one problem for another. As a case in point, look at whatever role it played in the blow-up with your Dad. Something to think about for you.

 

- You've spent decades waiting for your Dad to change, to become something he isn't. So I hate to be the bearer of bad news, BUT IT'S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN! So your choice is pretty simple - accept him as he is, history, flaws and all, or don't. What you saw 20 years ago and what you saw last weekend, that's him. Expecting him yesterday, today or tomorrow, to have an epiphany ay age 66 about your life is just wasted energy. And the unrealistic expectation he'll do so is your problem, not his.

 

Welcome to LoveShack and congrats on the addition to your growing family...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Ronni_W]

Am I a bad person if I keep him away from my family and have nothing to do with him for the foreseeable future?

NO! You are not a 'bad person' for wanting to have only a happy, positive and constructive atmosphere and influences in your own life, and in the lives of your immediate family, children, friends, etc.

 

Your dad obviously does not want to, or cannot yet, take responsibility for his own mistakes and adult decisions and choices. It's sad for him, but you do not have to put yourself (or your children)

in harm's way and in his line of fire for all of that.

 

It might be difficult, but you do not have to feel guilty for protecting yourself and your children from other people's garbage (emotional under-development and deficiencies).

 

Congrats on the pending arrival of your child! . Wishing Mom and Baby a safe, healthy and smooth delivery; and all of you much happiness.

[mphilly127]

Thank you for your replies! This is a tough call, but I'm leaning towards "being the bigger person" and agreeing to disagree about our past. He certainly has an issue taking accountability for his own mistakes throughout his life, a very annoying flaw, but we're all flawed. For the sake of my daughter and soon-to-be born son, I want to be civil with him so they can have someone from my side of the family in their lives. I don't have many others from my side still living, just my Dad and his brother. My mother has some serious issues and hasn't had much to do with her family in a long time, so it's slim pickings when it comes to my side of the family. My in-laws are great, as well as my wife's relatives, so I am grateful for that. It's just so very hard for me to try to sweep this issue with my Dad under the rug and move on. Alcohol certainly didn't help my reaction to his statement this past weekend, but I can assure you I would have been livid even sober. I'm not a big drinker, especially having young kids around, but I wanted to cut loose with my friends, just as we typically do on camping trips. I definitely won't be drinking around my Dad anymore, because it adds too much fuel to the fire.

[Mr. Lucky]

For the sake of my daughter and soon-to-be born son, I want to be civil with him so they can have someone from my side of the family in their lives. I don't have many others from my side still living, just my Dad and his brother.

 

Just understand "Grandpa" is going to be the same person with them he was with you, not going to suddenly grow a halo. So you'll have to do the math and decide if his presence is a net benefit in their lives.

 

Don't think I'd have him do much babysitting...

 

Mr. Lucky

[mphilly127]

Mr. Lucky, I agree... As far as babysitting goes, when he's been around, he's not good at paying attention, he has hearing loss, and he's usually buried in his phone or computer texting/chatting with some woman like a teenaged boy, so babysitting was not and never will be in the cards for him.

 

I should also add, that since his divorce in late June, his lovelife has been a mess. I think that he started texting and talking to the on-again, off-again girlfriend he has right now months ago, which probably helped lead him to want a divorce from his 3rd wife. This current girlfriend had her grandchild taken from her about 3 weeks ago by the state Child Protective Services (CPS), which from what i read, in order for them to remove a child from the home, a judge is required to sign off on the order after CPS has presented sufficient evidence that it is in the child's best interest to do so.

 

Despite all of these glaring red flags, he has continued to see her in between periods of them having blow-ups. He stopped sharing details of that relationship to me and my wife after the CPS deal, I think due to embarrassment, and the fact that I told him it was a terrible idea to keep seeing this woman. He should know much better than this, but it appears he's thinking with the wrong head.

[vla1120]

In some ways, your story reminds me of my estranged husband and his adult son (now 31). My husband and his first wife divorced when his son was 3. He saw him every other weekend. When he was 18, he left Greece to come to the U.S. His father told him if he went, he would never speak to him again, and he didn't for 8 years, until he needed his son to sponsor him so he could come to the U.S. His son gets very frustrated because his father takes credit for him being successful, even though he turned his back on him for 8 years. I used to tell his son that this is the price of having his father in his life because his father will never see the error in his ways. Everything is always someone else's fault.

 

If you do want to have a relationship with your father and want your children to know their grandfather, it will probably mean overlooking this fault and maybe keeping your father at a healthy (emotional) distance for your own well-being. I hope that makes sense. Best of luck with your growing family! That is SO exciting!

[Rockdad]

There are parents that in reality don't know how to be one even though technically they are. It's tragic for the children but also at the end of the day it is for the parent who has missed out on so much themselves. Pour yourself into your kids and give them that special relationship you missed out on growing up.

[Ronni_W]

This is a tough call, but I'm leaning towards "being the bigger person" and agreeing to disagree about our past. ... we're all flawed. ... so they can have someone from my side of the family in their lives. ... It's just so very hard for me to try to sweep this issue with my Dad under the rug ... but I wanted to cut loose with my friends, just as we typically do on camping trips.

People have different ideas of what it means to "be the bigger person".

For me, I don't think that being civil is being 'bigger', and I don't think that putting myself or one of my children or grandchildren in harm's way is 'bigger'.

 

Agreeing to disagree is a compromise, yes, but doesn't mean that you are sweeping anything under the rug; it can mean only that, as long as it is not negatively impacting you or any of your friends or loved ones, then you're not going to throw it up in his face at random moments or over any other non-related issue. (If that makes sense?)

 

There's also, IMHO, an over-exaggeration of the significance or importance of 'blood ties'...instead of making love ties the priority. You should be able to have an extra alcoholic beverage or two, without fearing that the whole world is going to come crashing down on you or your children or friends...that is trust and understanding and forgiveness. Why not make it a requirement in all of your relationships? (Not that constant excessive drinking or any kind of addiction shouldn't be addressed and resolved, but just in normal course of life where real people actually do really need the occasional 'letting loose'.) Harsh negative judgment, all the time, for everything, is not constructive or conducive.

 

We are not all equally flawed...some of us have learned from our mistakes. And some of us don't want to learn a goshdarn thing, and count on others to just keep enabling us to not ever learn. IMHO.

[knitwit]

....This current girlfriend had her grandchild taken from her about 3 weeks ago by the state Child Protective Services (CPS), which from what i read, in order for them to remove a child from the home, a judge is required to sign off on the order after CPS has presented sufficient evidence that it is in the child's best interest to do so.

 

Despite all of these glaring red flags, he has continued to see her in between periods of them having blow-ups. He stopped sharing details of that relationship to me and my wife after the CPS deal, I think due to embarrassment, and the fact that I told him it was a terrible idea to keep seeing this woman. He should know much better than this, but it appears he's thinking with the wrong head.

 

I don't want to be mean, but I think you're thinking with your heart and not your head.

 

Your dad is not able to maintain stable relationships and he has little insight into why this is the case.

 

I get that you want to have your dad and uncle involved in your children's lives- for better or for worse, they are all your family, your children should know their extended family whenever possible.

 

But, you have a responsibility to your family to maintain clear, safe boundaries. I don't know anything about you but just from your posts, it sure looks like an unwise decision to move onto property with your Dad.

 

If you're in the US, it is very, very serious to have one's kids removed by CPS. It usually takes repeated egregious behavior before CPS will actually take kids away. Something is very wrong with your dad's GF. You do NOT want her around your kids.

 

Hopefully he will move on from this particular girlfriend, but

 

A. What if he doesn't? What if she becomes Wife #4 and lives right next to you? It could be a ton of trouble that you will not be able to control.

 

B. Your dad has a life long pattern of making bad decisions with relationships. He is not showing much stability. If you move onto the property with your dad, you will have much less control over what your kids are exposed to. Current GF might get kicked out...but who is up next? And what other friends come onto his property that you don't know about yet?

 

I strongly recommend that you re-think the idea of living that close to him, and setting yourself up to be affected by any of his whims. You can get your own place and have much more control over when he gets to see them and who he will be able to introduce/expose your kids to. Maintaining the relationship, with the ability to withdraw for periods if needed, is as close to a win-win as you can get right now.

 

I wish you the best of luck.

[mphilly127]

I don't want to be mean, but I think you're thinking with your heart and not your head.

 

Your dad is not able to maintain stable relationships and he has little insight into why this is the case.

 

I get that you want to have your dad and uncle involved in your children's lives- for better or for worse, they are all your family, your children should know their extended family whenever possible.

 

But, you have a responsibility to your family to maintain clear, safe boundaries. I don't know anything about you but just from your posts, it sure looks like an unwise decision to move onto property with your Dad.

 

If you're in the US, it is very, very serious to have one's kids removed by CPS. It usually takes repeated egregious behavior before CPS will actually take kids away. Something is very wrong with your dad's GF. You do NOT want her around your kids.

 

Hopefully he will move on from this particular girlfriend, but

 

A. What if he doesn't? What if she becomes Wife #4 and lives right next to you? It could be a ton of trouble that you will not be able to control.

 

B. Your dad has a life long pattern of making bad decisions with relationships. He is not showing much stability. If you move onto the property with your dad, you will have much less control over what your kids are exposed to. Current GF might get kicked out...but who is up next? And what other friends come onto his property that you don't know about yet?

 

I strongly recommend that you re-think the idea of living that close to him, and setting yourself up to be affected by any of his whims. You can get your own place and have much more control over when he gets to see them and who he will be able to introduce/expose your kids to. Maintaining the relationship, with the ability to withdraw for periods if needed, is as close to a win-win as you can get right now.

 

I wish you the best of luck.

 

Knitwit, thank you for your reply, and you've pretty much hit the nail on the head. This past weekend, I called my Dad and apologized for flying off of the handle in a rage. I've basically had to take the "be the bigger person" approach to this. I wanted to patch things up enough before my 2nd child is born, which will be anytime between me typing this and Halloween. He wants to be there to meet his new grandson, and I don't want to prevent that, so the call was necessary.

 

As far as the land goes and living next to him, I agree 100%. My wife and I have been a bit leery of it given his erratic and impulsive behavior, not to mention his on-again, off-again relationship with the woman who had her grandchild taken by CPS. We would not want to live in close proximity to her if he did stay with her, but even if he didn't, there's no telling what kind of woman would be next. We've decided against that plan, and it seems he has too since out confrontation. He mentioned to me that he wants to finish clearing some brush on half of it, and then list it for sale in a few months and make some money off of it.

 

I don't want to keep my children from having a relationship with their grandfather, but it's apparent that I need to maintain some kind of distance and boundary for my sake as well as theirs, and not living next door to each other is apparently a must now, knowing what we know and seeing what we see.

 

*** P.S. - There was no apology from my Dad regarding him blaming me for leaving my life for a couple of years as a teen, but that was expected and something I'm just going to have to accept. He has a warped view of many things in his life, and a way of rationalizing things to where he doesn't believe he has any fault in the matter. This is just one of those things...

Edited October 18, 2018 by mphilly127