Mr. Lucky Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 But for some reason, there's this idea that a marriage - something which has an enormous effect on both parties - should happen only when the man is good and ready. Would you object to the statement - "marriage - something which has an enormous effect on both parties - should happen only when both partners are good and ready"? T If one of you wants to marry, then discuss the idea to find out if you both want the same thing. If you do want the same thing, then see if you can agree on a time line. If you're both keen, set a date. If it's a few years away, agree to revisit the idea at X time in the future. It really should be this simple. Isn't this what's happened in the OP's case? Mr. Lucky 2 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Would you object to the statement - "marriage - something which has an enormous effect on both parties - should happen only when both partners are good and ready"? Isn't this what's happened in the OP's case? Mr. Lucky No, I would not object to the statement, with the caveat that the discussion is being had openly and honestly and without the need for a surprise proposal. As for the OP, it seems to me that she doesn't have the confidence that he'll be true to his word. I suspect the truth from him is more like "I really don't know yet....it's still quite early. Perhaps I'll feel like getting married in a couple of years". And if this is how he feels, then that's fine - but it's about expressing his thoughts clearly and in a manner which doesn't leave her feeling confused. I would also give the disclaimer that I have a bit of baggage in this area. In my starter marriage, we'd already bought a house together. I was living in it alone with the agreement that he'd move in when we married. I ended up lonely and isolated and really needed a bit of a timeline so that I could manage my expectations. However I got the response of "I will propose when I'm ready". Without a timeline and feeling lonely etc, I really started to feel rudderless and out of control of my life. Anyway, he eventually did propose (with the world's lamest proposal) and the marriage lasted 4 years. Pfft. It's this experience of feeling rudderless and without transparent conversation on the matter which has formed my opinion on the matter. Years ago I said to my now partner "hey, do you think we should get married?" He replied "yeah, OK". We didn't end up getting married because we couldn't agree on a wedding and then realised that marriage wasn't important to us anyway. But the conversation was good because it was transparent. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 She's already asked him to marry her, and they did discuss it and he said, basically, later sometime. You can't force it. You just have to hope he's sincere and set your own timeline to walk if it drags out. From the way she describes it, he sounds like he is open about discussing it, but isn't in any hurry like she is. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 (edited) To add to this: The whole thing about a man proposing on his timeline means that the decision is unilateral. And unilateral decisions generally have the effect of leaving the partner feeling like they have no control in the direction of their lives. And this is where the OP is at - I know because I've been there (many years ago in my 'starter marriage'). I don't like not having a say in the timing and direction of my life. I'm probably going to get up the noses of men and women who value the whole proposal thing, but I think the notion is completely out dated. Women can work, we can own property, we can get a loan, we can support ourselves living alone. But for some reason, there's this idea that a marriage - something which has an enormous effect on both parties - should happen only when the man is good and ready. The idea of a woman having no say planning this part of her future is ridiculous in this modern era. If I wanted to marry again, I would not stay with a man who wouldn't discuss timelines openly and transparently. If one of you wants to marry, then discuss the idea to find out if you both want the same thing. If you do want the same thing, then see if you can agree on a time line. If you're both keen, set a date. If it's a few years away, agree to revisit the idea at X time in the future. It really should be this simple. It sounds to me like they have already decided together that they will get engaged during the next year. If that has already been agreed on together, does it REALLY matter that much that she dictate a specific date? I'm all for couples deciding on a general timeline together (and frankly I think that ALL major milestones, including sex, living together, and marriage, should happen only when both people are completely ready), but that can still coexist with the man choosing a specific date (within the agreed-upon timeline) and manner of proposing. Planning a proposal can mean a lot to some men. And relationships are about compromise - if your partner really wants to plan one, is it really more important that you have equal control over it down to the minutae? Does it have that much impact on the rest of your life whether you get engaged on 2 February 2019 or 10 May 2019? The biggest concern, IMO, is that the OP doesn't seem to trust that he'll stick to their agreement. Not sure if he has given her good reason to mistrust him - if he has, then perhaps she might want to rethink marrying him entirely. Edited October 5, 2018 by Elswyth 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 He's trying to win some time. He knows right after that engagement it's marriage and you'll start talking about babies. Men and women have their children much later in life nowadays, he may not be ready for a family after all you've only been dating 2 years. That whole proposing marriage doesn't exist in my culture. My ex-husband and I spoke about getting married, we decided together we would get engaged on Xmas Eve and married the following July. There are 2 more months to this year. If by January 2019 he hasn't proposed then he won't ever. You'll have to decide which is the most important to you: Him or a mini 31.1 grams of gold. Link to post Share on other sites
sabaton Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) My boyfriend and I are in our early 30’s and have been together for over 2 years, living together just over a year. I have thought he was going to propose a couple of times (my birthday, anniversary, etc). and of course was completely disappointed when it didn't happen. He didn't say he would, I just in my head thought it would. I do struggle with anxiety and tend to overthink and catastrophize things. We’ve had a few conversations and before when I asked him if he wanted to get married he would say one day. Now I have asked him if he wants to get married he says yes, I've asked when he will propose and he says he doesn't want to give a date and time. I tell him that I would like it to happen within the next year a year and he said he is on the same page. He said he has thought of how he would propose and doesn't seem scared to talk about it, but we've had this conversation a couple of times over the last few months and he still hasn't proposed. He does say he is committed to me and wants this too but wont tell me when he is going to do it. I’m giving myself so much anxiety just thinking it will never happen. He makes me happy and we have a great relationship, and the last thing I want to do is pressure him or ruin our relationship. How do I just stop thinking about it and let it happen when it happens? I’m worried I'm wasting my time. He has expressed to me that I'm not but I can't help but stress. I recently turned 31 and I want children (not now but within a few years hopefully). How do I just relax? What should I do? Buy a ring and propose to him. Did he know that you were entering a relationship with him with the intent purpose of getting married and having kids? If the guy knows the woman is interested in marriage, and considering how short of a window a woman's fertility is, he knows that by 30 her fertility has already suffered a huge decline, and that it will begin to lose more and more fertility as the years go past the age of 30. Which makes me think that maybe he's not that interested in getting married and having kids because if he did, he'd have kick started that ball game already by proposing marriage to you. Edited October 16, 2018 by sabaton 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Which makes me think that maybe he's not that interested in getting married and having kids because if he did, he'd have kick started that ball game already by proposing marriage to you. So if you "buy a ring and propose to him", aren't you asking someone to marry you who is at least hesitant, if not reluctant? Women in the OP's situation already have an answer to their question. It's just not the one they want to hear ... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mycatsnuggles Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 I am the mothe of a man very similar to yours. Dating the women for 5 years, lived together for 3. For the last 2 and half years they have been discussing marriage. Where to live, how many and when to have kids, how to pay for the wedding. All talk no actual plans arranged. Oh by the way he has his great grandmothers 2.2 carrot diamond ring so np there. But no engagement. He tells me by the end of the year. I’m not asking any more. My feeling is he’s waiting for her to break up because he is scared to get married. If you were my daughter I would tell you to look for a new place to live, start packing your things and move out right after Christmas. Tell him I understand your unsure and I want to give you the time and space you need. I’m doing what is best for me. End it. Don’t threaten or manipulate. End it. Move your life forward. He or may not come along, you can’t control his actions, you can only control your own. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Much like a wedding, I think a proposal is simply the formal/ceremonial ritual of officially asking the person, but, more or less as a couple, you've already discussed that you want to marry each other and have definitely agreed in concrete terms that that's the next step. My partner and I have recently gotten to the stage where we're like yes we definitely want to be married to each other, and more or less proposed in words to each other and have agreed that that's the commitment we're making. Now we're planning how we want things to go in terms of our careers, living together, we've asked each other about rings, finances, what we would like in a wedding etc. So at this point, only the actual day of the formal asking with a ring might be a surprise (or maybe not a surprise at all). All that so say, I wouldn't worry about is it happening or not as a big surprise, but I'd try talking more seriously about your future plans as a couple, as getting married is a mutual arrangement that isn't just one person surprise asking you when you have never agreed on it or even discussed it seriously. My partner was just as excited as I am to talk about marriage and it's something we discussed often and think about in terms of "when we get married, when we buy our house, when we have kids..." so there is no surprise there that this is our mutual goal. I think maybe paying more attention to whether you're on the same page or not will take away some of the anxiety of waiting for a surprise. Because you'll already have the security of knowing this is something that will happen instead of "maybe one day." 1 Link to post Share on other sites
I'veseenbetterlol Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Here it is easy. The OP is 31, she wants kids and I guess does not want them out of wedlock. If this is going to be a dead end, she needs to know as soon as possible. Getting over this relationship finding a new man and getting married may take another 3-4+ years, 3-4+ years makes her 34-35, at 35 her fertility is waning, getting pregnant may be more difficult and if she wants a brood, she may struggle... Men do not have this problem at 31, they can free wheel for years and then pick up speed when they like. Women especially over 30 need to more focused on the road ahead. This is very true. I don't think OP will force the man to marry her, she just want to know if he wants to or not. This way she won't miss out on other guys ho might actually want to get married. I think its extremely unfair for men (or women) to waste someone's time pretending like they want marriage when they don't. Link to post Share on other sites
boymommy Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Personally I think you are worried over nothing. He told you he wants to get married, but if you keep bringing it up you will actually DELAY things. Men percoeve this as pressure and get freaked out (even if they dont let on that they are pressured). Stop talking about anything marriage, proposal and wedding related and set an internal deadline that if no ring shows up a year from now with the new “no marriage related talk” then you will reassass the situation and go from there. I would advise against ultimatums or threats. They dont work. I know how you feel as my boyfriend is wishy washy about marriage too and says he doesnt know. I am trying to come to terms with that and what I should do about it. My boyfriend is pretty certain he wants to spend the rest of his life with me, just marriage isnt included as part of the package. I know its a hard thing to deal with. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 My boyfriend is pretty certain he wants to spend the rest of his life with me, just marriage isnt included as part of the package. I know its a hard thing to deal with. Good luck! Given the legal, financial and social advantages of marriage, especially if kids involved, how does he support that position? In other words, what commitment does marriage represent that "spend the rest of his life with" you does not ? Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
boymommy Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Given the legal, financial and social advantages of marriage, especially if kids involved, how does he support that position? In other words, what commitment does marriage represent that "spend the rest of his life with" you does not ? Mr. Lucky Trust me I agree with you. But I didnt get burned in my divorce the way my boyfriend did either so its not black and white. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 But I didnt get burned in my divorce the way my boyfriend did either so its not black and white. Sure it is, you're not his ex-wife. His anger should be with her, not the institution of marriage... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
boymommy Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Sure it is, you're not his ex-wife. His anger should be with her, not the institution of marriage... Mr. Lucky I dont want to hijack someone else’s thread..if you want to give me advice I did start a thread about this topic in the dating section fyi. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Good point. Will do... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Tristian Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Since the OP has been MIA since October, we will shut this one down. Thanks all for your input. Link to post Share on other sites
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