I messed up big time

[whydontwe]

op,

until you figure out the whys of what made you cheat, you can't be trusted to not do it again.

 

 

Some view sex( cheating) as an addiction. In this sense, the closest comparison I could think of is someone being addicted to food. It's all around you. If someone who is morbidly obese wants to lose weight, they nee to figure out why they overeat and can't stop themselves. This takes a lot of work, introspection and self awareness.

 

 

Do you think that is where you are right now?

 

Yes, I believe this is where I am right now. Understanding that I have an addiction to the thrill of sex or getting to know girls and spending time with them. The paid services tapered off when I moved to online dating. I realized the "dirtiness" of paid services and wanted to stop that all together. The online dating was because of getting to know someone new and just conversing. I did not have sex with any of the online dating girls, but did kiss (not to say I am justifying any of it).

 

I know it's going to take work. I was a virgin when I met my wife (but she wasn't) and there was illusion of thinking I have the option to experience different girls. I recall when she told me, I was so mad. Obviously, this was so wrong.

[BaileyB]

I sensed she knew something was up. Then, one night, around 2 am, she woke me up and said I'll give you one chance to tell me everything (without being specific). I told her everything without knowing what she was really expecting me to say.

 

In other words, it wasn't a true and sincere confession... You were caught.

Edited October 6, 2018 by BaileyB

[Mr. Lucky]

Yes, I believe this is where I am right now. Understanding that I have an addiction to the thrill of sex or getting to know girls and spending time with them. The paid services tapered off when I moved to online dating. I realized the "dirtiness" of paid services and wanted to stop that all together. The online dating was because of getting to know someone new and just conversing. I did not have sex with any of the online dating girls, but did kiss (not to say I am justifying any of it).

 

I know it's going to take work. I was a virgin when I met my wife (but she wasn't) and there was illusion of thinking I have the option to experience different girls. I recall when she told me, I was so mad. Obviously, this was so wrong.

 

Understandable you'd want to take the time to do the hard work to figure this out.

 

But do you really think it's fair to ask your wife, who's already lost 17 years, to stand by while you address this? I have an ex-boss who torpedoed his marriage through sex addiction, he's been in therapy, meetings, etc., for years.

 

You're adding insult to injury in expecting her to wait this out...

 

Mr. Lucky

[MuddyFootprints]

If you are counting on your pathetic crybaby attempts to prove remorse, none of us are going to fall for it and I hope like hell your wife isn't either.

 

If you want to fix it, you need to get over yourself and get your **** together. You need to comfort your wife and walk the ****ing walk.

 

She doesn't need your pussy-ass tears. She needs your commitment. She needs your honesty. She needs to have faith in your intentions.

 

I don't know how you prove yourself after 17 years. I do know crocodile tears aren't gonna do it for her.

 

Wah.

[merrmeade]

I wish I could talk to your wife. So many things you've said and reported that she said were what I went through. I would advise her to leave you as soon as possible because she will never get over both the disrespect and the years lost. The second one, the years lost, includes feelings of disorientation and grief. She will never feel that any of her memories of the past with you are dependable. She will think of them and always wonder: Who was he seeing then?

 

And if she deliberates too long, she really will be too old to consider anything but taking care of this sorry excuse for a spouse who never had the decency or respect for her to let her know and choose for herself when it would have made a difference.

 

And as for you, now that I've read more of your posts, I don't think you've begun to scrape the bottom of the barrel of remorse. I also don't think you really and truly care all that much what she decides. You sound far shallower than you did in the beginning as far as your conscience and compassion for your wife are concerned.Even if she divorces you, somehow I don't think it will bother you all that very much.

 

The part that's bothering her and preventing her from following through with separation is, as you said, the idea that you will further insult her by taking up with someone and leave her looking the fool to the world. This is the part where she needs real help and I'm not sure whether the counseling you're getting will give her the push she needs. She needs to cut you off completely - from her mind and life. She should not even let her friends tell her what you're doing. Then, she needs to really and truly not care and find her own happiness. What you said you've done and said to make it up to her is so lackluster that leads me to feel that you don't deserve her forgiveness.

 

Maybe this sounds harsh and it is. But I really don't think you care all THAT much. Unfortunately, you cannot initiate the separation without giving her further insecurity and pain. And if she decides to stay with you (God help us), you will try to look like the repentant, attentive husband, but it will never be real. This is all my opinion based only on the strange detachment that characterizes your posts.

[ExpatInItaly]

Your marriage is probably over, OP. You two might suffer through another couple years together, but eventually, you will more than likely part ways.

 

And you know what? I think that would be best for both of you. She just learned she doesn't know the man she is married to, and you do not have any respect for marriage or your vows anyways. Ultimately, you are incompatible on a deep level.

 

The fact that you would upset your family dynamic this much is also extremely troubling. The kids might too young now to understand what is happening at home, but trust that they will pick up on the tension and Mom's sadness. When they're older, they are likely to start putting the pieces together and your secret life will come out to some degree, little bits at a time. When you really want the best for your kids, you don't do things like this that will emotionally devastate their mother and risk the entire family unit. You did your children a great, great disservice here too.

 

Set each other free. You are not cut out for marriage, and she is deserves a man who respects her.

[Amethyst68]

You've mentioned addiction, is this a self-diagnosis or have you actually been to a certified SA therapist?

 

If you are a diagnosed SA (and I'm not entering into the argument of whether this is a genuine condition) then again I would argue no MC at this time. You need to work on you before you can withon the marriage. If you're really lucky you're wife will still be around at that time.

 

There's still no emotion in your posts, I don't know if that's due to shock, or maybe just a lack of empathy in general.

[whydontwe]

Understandable you'd want to take the time to do the hard work to figure this out.

 

But do you really think it's fair to ask your wife, who's already lost 17 years, to stand by while you address this? I have an ex-boss who torpedoed his marriage through sex addiction, he's been in therapy, meetings, etc., for years.

 

You're adding insult to injury in expecting her to wait this out...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

No, it's not fair to her. Absolutely not. Yesterday, she texted me that "I'm not trying hard enough" and left the house for a few hours. I am assuming she needed to get out of the house and decompress.

[whydontwe]

If you are counting on your pathetic crybaby attempts to prove remorse, none of us are going to fall for it and I hope like hell your wife isn't either.

 

If you want to fix it, you need to get over yourself and get your **** together. You need to comfort your wife and walk the ****ing walk.

 

She doesn't need your pussy-ass tears. She needs your commitment. She needs your honesty. She needs to have faith in your intentions.

 

I don't know how you prove yourself after 17 years. I do know crocodile tears aren't gonna do it for her.

 

Wah.

 

That's the thing. I don't how to prove myself given it's been 17 years. I've done the obvious, but apparently not the stuff that really matters. This morning I cooked her breakfast-in-bed, which I've never done before in our marriage. I don't know if she ate it but it was eaten by someone. It could have been our son. What else can I do? Beg?

[whydontwe]

I wish I could talk to your wife. So many things you've said and reported that she said were what I went through. I would advise her to leave you as soon as possible because she will never get over both the disrespect and the years lost. The second one, the years lost, includes feelings of disorientation and grief. She will never feel that any of her memories of the past with you are dependable. She will think of them and always wonder: Who was he seeing then?

 

And if she deliberates too long, she really will be too old to consider anything but taking care of this sorry excuse for a spouse who never had the decency or respect for her to let her know and choose for herself when it would have made a difference.

 

And as for you, now that I've read more of your posts, I don't think you've begun to scrape the bottom of the barrel of remorse. I also don't think you really and truly care all that much what she decides. You sound far shallower than you did in the beginning as far as your conscience and compassion for your wife are concerned.Even if she divorces you, somehow I don't think it will bother you all that very much.

 

The part that's bothering her and preventing her from following through with separation is, as you said, the idea that you will further insult her by taking up with someone and leave her looking the fool to the world. This is the part where she needs real help and I'm not sure whether the counseling you're getting will give her the push she needs. She needs to cut you off completely - from her mind and life. She should not even let her friends tell her what you're doing. Then, she needs to really and truly not care and find her own happiness. What you said you've done and said to make it up to her is so lackluster that leads me to feel that you don't deserve her forgiveness.

 

Maybe this sounds harsh and it is. But I really don't think you care all THAT much. Unfortunately, you cannot initiate the separation without giving her further insecurity and pain. And if she decides to stay with you (God help us), you will try to look like the repentant, attentive husband, but it will never be real. This is all my opinion based only on the strange detachment that characterizes your posts.

 

Your response was convicting. I am counting on the "what if" this can work. What if we miraculously get over this devastating ordeal? Even we continue to be married, there are so reminders, situations, and events that will spark memory/past. Is this fair to her?

 

Yes, what I've written in terms of what I have been doing may sound lackluster. This is the downside of digital non-interactive communication. I am so sincere about my guilt and I willing to make it work. However, I feel that the ball is in her court. At the same time, what I am hearing from the various posts in this thread is that I should be the one initiating the separation. To her, this means I have given up. Is this okay?

 

Also, my job/career is in compliance. Thus, why I am "objective" and "detached" in my posts. I was never, even in person, an emotional person. I have always held feelings inside.

[whydontwe]

You've mentioned addiction, is this a self-diagnosis or have you actually been to a certified SA therapist?

 

If you are a diagnosed SA (and I'm not entering into the argument of whether this is a genuine condition) then again I would argue no MC at this time. You need to work on you before you can withon the marriage. If you're really lucky you're wife will still be around at that time.

 

There's still no emotion in your posts, I don't know if that's due to shock, or maybe just a lack of empathy in general.

 

I have not been formally diagnosed. That's what I believe may be the issue. But the again, it could have been something else. I have no idea. I just know I was addicted to meeting different girls and wanting some validation from them. The excitement of meeting a girl for the first time and getting to know each other was indeed addicting to me. As time has progressed since my confession, I have almost no desires for any of that. Everyday since my confession, I recall so many memories with my wife and children.

[whydontwe]

Yesterday, we told each of our kids individually that daddy hurt mommy and that we are going through some difficult times and working with counselors. I know my kids and they are very good kids. At this point, I think that they think we are in a fight and eventually things will get better. We did not provide any specifics at that time.

 

In terms of parents, my counselor told me to tell my parents soon. Is this necessary now? If so, what's the benefit right now?

[pepperbird]

That's the thing. I don't how to prove myself given it's been 17 years. I've done the obvious, but apparently not the stuff that really matters. This morning I cooked her breakfast-in-bed, which I've never done before in our marriage. I don't know if she ate it but it was eaten by someone. It could have been our son. What else can I do? Beg?

 

 

The thing is that you've had 17 years to wrap your head around all of this.She's had almost no time at all.

 

You are going to have to show her that she can trust you, and that is going to take a very, very long time.Put yourself in her place. If she had been cheating on you for 17 years,do you feel like you could ever really trust her again?

[Just a Guy]

Hi Whydon'twe, reading your OP was just mind boggling. I just wonder how you have lived with yourself for the past 17 years with your wife sharing the same bed and then going out and doing the things that you were doing. That said, I do not know why you are now so keen on sticking by her side when she must be in a constant state of revulsion just seeing your face? The most humane and compassionate thing you can do for her and your children is to see to it that they are financially taken care of and then make yourself scarce. Crawl into a hole in the ground and disappear from their sight and live your life out whichever way you want. However, do not ensnare another hapless woman in the bonds of a marital relationship. If you want to have fun with ladies of easy virtue then that is your choice but do not go within a mile of any decent upright woman because you will defile her too, with your activities.

 

Even if your wife is not yet decided whether to reconcile with you or not, you make that decision for her and set her free. Let her find some good man who can spend the rest of her life with her making up for the sins of her former husband and restoring partially, if not wholly, her faith in the male gender of the species. I am sorry if you thought that you would get sympathy on a forum like this one for the horrendous manner in which you have treated your wife. Seventeen years is a lifetime which your wife can never recover. Just think about it.

[Bittersweetie]

Whydontwe, why don't you ask your wife what she wants from you? Does she want words? Space? Ask her what ways to you can help her. After my d-day, my H actually said to me, "I have no idea if I want to stay with you right now. But if you want us to have any chance, here are the expectations I have moving forward." He asked for things like transparency on my email, phone, etc. He asked for me to text him every time I arrived somewhere or left somewhere. And I did them because I wanted us to have a chance. And some things, like the texting, bothered me at first...why would he need that? But I realized, it was a small, small way of rebuilding trust. Rebuilding trust one penny at a time.

 

And that is where you are right now. Rebuilding trust, rebuilding your own personal integrity, one pebble at a time.

 

It is not going to happen overnight, especially considering the sheer amount of damage you have caused. Like others, I'm not sure you can even ask that of your wife after all of the years she has already lost.

[Mr. Lucky]

I am so sincere about my guilt and I willing to make it work. However, I feel that the ball is in her court.

 

whydontwe, you present am almost sociopathic sense of detachment and self-serving-manipulation. There's lots of obvious pluses for you if you force her into a decision, but none of those perceived advantages have anything to do with love, remorse or contrition.

 

You can say you're sorry all day long. It's when you start acting as though you're sorry that counts...

 

Mr. Lucky

[whydontwe]

The thing is that you've had 17 years to wrap your head around all of this.She's had almost no time at all.

 

You are going to have to show her that she can trust you, and that is going to take a very, very long time.Put yourself in her place. If she had been cheating on you for 17 years,do you feel like you could ever really trust her again?

 

I would not be able to handle the images, dishonesty, especially given the duration. You're right. It will take a long time.

[whydontwe]

Whydontwe, why don't you ask your wife what she wants from you? Does she want words? Space? Ask her what ways to you can help her. After my d-day, my H actually said to me, "I have no idea if I want to stay with you right now. But if you want us to have any chance, here are the expectations I have moving forward." He asked for things like transparency on my email, phone, etc. He asked for me to text him every time I arrived somewhere or left somewhere. And I did them because I wanted us to have a chance. And some things, like the texting, bothered me at first...why would he need that? But I realized, it was a small, small way of rebuilding trust. Rebuilding trust one penny at a time.

 

And that is where you are right now. Rebuilding trust, rebuilding your own personal integrity, one pebble at a time.

 

It is not going to happen overnight, especially considering the sheer amount of damage you have caused. Like others, I'm not sure you can even ask that of your wife after all of the years she has already lost.

 

We talked last night, just the two of us. It's been over a week since we talked in person. We have been texting each other, mainly with kid duties, even when we were home. She said that she's disappointed that I am taking any initiative to rebuild her trust for me. I said, I have been. I have been letting her know where I am and where I'll be. She said she wants to see more. I asked her why are you even trying to make this work given what I've done. She said it's for my own good because I need change. She said whether it's with her or with someone else in the future, I need change. She said she sensed I was cheating a while back, but never thought it would be true. She said my problem is that I am selfish and manipulative.

 

I respect her attitude, and honestly, her character during this ordeal. I can't believe I did what I did to someone so patient, selfless, and thoughtful. I am amazed by her calm and restraint. This could have been quite physical, rightfully so, but somehow she is trying. And, I want to as well.

[frigginlost]

We talked last night, just the two of us. It's been over a week since we talked in person. We have been texting each other, mainly with kid duties, even when we were home. She said that she's disappointed that I am taking any initiative to rebuild her trust for me. I said, I have been. I have been letting her know where I am and where I'll be. She said she wants to see more. I asked her why are you even trying to make this work given what I've done. She said it's for my own good because I need change. She said whether it's with her or with someone else in the future, I need change. She said she sensed I was cheating a while back, but never thought it would be true. She said my problem is that I am selfish and manipulative.

 

I respect her attitude, and honestly, her character during this ordeal. I can't believe I did what I did to someone so patient, selfless, and thoughtful. I am amazed by her calm and restraint. This could have been quite physical, rightfully so, but somehow she is trying. And, I want to as well.

 

I don't think you're "getting it".

 

Breakfast in bed, and letting her know where you're at is not going to fix this. Ever. Respecting her attitude and character is not going to fix this either. She has given you a massive clue, but you are completely missing it.

 

She says you need to change. End of story. Counseling is not going to help you change. Ever. You spent 17 years manipulating this woman and a MC is not going to change you.

 

You need to get your butt into a shrink, and find out why your alarm clock is out of wack. Something inside you does not register the damage you can inflict on someone. You can speak of all these feelings of regret, etc. but I honestly don't get the feeling you understand them in reading your words.

 

It was mentioned earlier that you need to back off and that is precisely what you need to do. You need to tell your wife every step, and every move you make to fix yourself, but you need to *do it*. Not talk about it.

 

Make an appointment with a shrink and go to work on yourself. Inform your wife that you are doing this for her and for you. Keep her abreast of everything you are doing and let her take the lead on everything when it comes to interacting with you.

 

You have got a massive hill to climb...

[Mr. Lucky]

And, I want to as well.

 

Again, your use of an indeterminate future tense says it all. "I want to" is very different from "I am" or "I will".

 

Agree with frigginlost. You should be working on yourself, not on your marriage. You're not marriage material...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Bittersweetie]

Yes, you need to be working on yourself right now. If your wife is interested in what you are learning, great, but if you truly want to change, the change comes from YOU and not from changing your circumstances (i.e. no more cheating, separating from wife, etc).

 

I would share with my H things I learned about myself from therapy and self-reflection. And he would say, "Great! Now look deeper. I want more." I'd get so pissed. But he was right...he called it peeling the onion. Man, I peeled that onion until there was nothing left. But it was worth it. I found myself in a much better and more authentic place. And since my H was next to me while I peeled that onion, he could see that change came from within me and wasn't just words and wants.

 

Like I said, it may be too late for you. The destruction you have caused, deliberately, may be too much for your wife. But if you truly want to change, then you need to start by looking in the mirror.

[whydontwe]

Yes, you need to be working on yourself right now. If your wife is interested in what you are learning, great, but if you truly want to change, the change comes from YOU and not from changing your circumstances (i.e. no more cheating, separating from wife, etc).

 

I would share with my H things I learned about myself from therapy and self-reflection. And he would say, "Great! Now look deeper. I want more." I'd get so pissed. But he was right...he called it peeling the onion. Man, I peeled that onion until there was nothing left. But it was worth it. I found myself in a much better and more authentic place. And since my H was next to me while I peeled that onion, he could see that change came from within me and wasn't just words and wants.

 

Like I said, it may be too late for you. The destruction you have caused, deliberately, may be too much for your wife. But if you truly want to change, then you need to start by looking in the mirror.

 

Thanks, your post is encouraging. I am hopeful. Is life the same again for you and your H?

 

How did your peel the onion?

[ladydesigner]

How did your peel the onion?

 

By going to see your own therapist. Your wife should have her own. There should be no marriage counseling at this point. You have way too many issues OP and the peeling of the onion is look deep inside yourself why you thought it was ok to do this. 17 years is not just cheating it is leading a double life. I will never get over my WS's A's and his double life. It's been 6 years from initial D-Day and I still can't get past it. My WS was not remorseful either. I think you should do your kids a favor if they are adults and tell them the truth about yourself.

[Bittersweetie]

Is life the same again for you and your H?

 

No, life is not the same again for my H and I. You asking that question blatantly shows you are not actually remorseful or fully understanding of your actions.

 

Here are the facts: I betrayed him, I betrayed our marriage, I betrayed myself. We were both irrevocably changed. And that is what upsets me the most, now, years later...that my husband will never be the same specifically because of MY ACTIONS. I hurt him so much he will never be the same as he was before. He will never have the hope or trust in others as he did before. Because of ME.

 

I do think this is common for WS...to think, how long until things are back to normal? The thing is, it will NEVER be "back to normal." Your BS has undergone a life-changing revelation. And a WS, if doing the true and actual work of examination and vulnerability, will never be the same again. Your marriage will never be the same as it was before. That is a fact.

 

The path of reconciliation is journey, not a destination. I am almost nine years out of d-day and do not consider myself fully reconciled because there is always something more to learn and change.

 

As for how I peeled the onion. Therapy for myself. Lots of reading of books on self-esteem, relationships, marriage, etc. Journaling and self-reflection. Being honest with myself even when it sucked. Talking with my husband.

[Bittersweetie]

Just to add, my H and I are doing well now. We are almost nine years from d-day. He is my best friend. We had a child together six years ago. But as I said, our marriage is not the same as it was before. We have both permanently changed as a result of my actions.