I messed up big time

[Bittersweetie]

Yes, you need to be working on yourself right now. If your wife is interested in what you are learning, great, but if you truly want to change, the change comes from YOU and not from changing your circumstances (i.e. no more cheating, separating from wife, etc).

 

I would share with my H things I learned about myself from therapy and self-reflection. And he would say, "Great! Now look deeper. I want more." I'd get so pissed. But he was right...he called it peeling the onion. Man, I peeled that onion until there was nothing left. But it was worth it. I found myself in a much better and more authentic place. And since my H was next to me while I peeled that onion, he could see that change came from within me and wasn't just words and wants.

 

Like I said, it may be too late for you. The destruction you have caused, deliberately, may be too much for your wife. But if you truly want to change, then you need to start by looking in the mirror.

[whydontwe]

Yes, you need to be working on yourself right now. If your wife is interested in what you are learning, great, but if you truly want to change, the change comes from YOU and not from changing your circumstances (i.e. no more cheating, separating from wife, etc).

 

I would share with my H things I learned about myself from therapy and self-reflection. And he would say, "Great! Now look deeper. I want more." I'd get so pissed. But he was right...he called it peeling the onion. Man, I peeled that onion until there was nothing left. But it was worth it. I found myself in a much better and more authentic place. And since my H was next to me while I peeled that onion, he could see that change came from within me and wasn't just words and wants.

 

Like I said, it may be too late for you. The destruction you have caused, deliberately, may be too much for your wife. But if you truly want to change, then you need to start by looking in the mirror.

 

Thanks, your post is encouraging. I am hopeful. Is life the same again for you and your H?

 

How did your peel the onion?

[ladydesigner]

How did your peel the onion?

 

By going to see your own therapist. Your wife should have her own. There should be no marriage counseling at this point. You have way too many issues OP and the peeling of the onion is look deep inside yourself why you thought it was ok to do this. 17 years is not just cheating it is leading a double life. I will never get over my WS's A's and his double life. It's been 6 years from initial D-Day and I still can't get past it. My WS was not remorseful either. I think you should do your kids a favor if they are adults and tell them the truth about yourself.

[Bittersweetie]

Is life the same again for you and your H?

 

No, life is not the same again for my H and I. You asking that question blatantly shows you are not actually remorseful or fully understanding of your actions.

 

Here are the facts: I betrayed him, I betrayed our marriage, I betrayed myself. We were both irrevocably changed. And that is what upsets me the most, now, years later...that my husband will never be the same specifically because of MY ACTIONS. I hurt him so much he will never be the same as he was before. He will never have the hope or trust in others as he did before. Because of ME.

 

I do think this is common for WS...to think, how long until things are back to normal? The thing is, it will NEVER be "back to normal." Your BS has undergone a life-changing revelation. And a WS, if doing the true and actual work of examination and vulnerability, will never be the same again. Your marriage will never be the same as it was before. That is a fact.

 

The path of reconciliation is journey, not a destination. I am almost nine years out of d-day and do not consider myself fully reconciled because there is always something more to learn and change.

 

As for how I peeled the onion. Therapy for myself. Lots of reading of books on self-esteem, relationships, marriage, etc. Journaling and self-reflection. Being honest with myself even when it sucked. Talking with my husband.

[Bittersweetie]

Just to add, my H and I are doing well now. We are almost nine years from d-day. He is my best friend. We had a child together six years ago. But as I said, our marriage is not the same as it was before. We have both permanently changed as a result of my actions.

[merrmeade]

It's always a good day to start over!

 

<3, a fellow cheater.

Does this mean you’ve done it successfully? You can encourage op to start over on that basis? You know it can be done from experience?

[S2B]

Honestly, if there are ANY remnants of your old self left after doing the hard work to completely change who you are/were - thenit wont work.

 

There's no hope if you don't dig deep to completely change who you are at your core.

 

And honestly, your wife deserves nothing less than to get rid of who you've been this whole time.

 

You either change or loose her.

[whydontwe]

Just to add, my H and I are doing well now. We are almost nine years from d-day. He is my best friend. We had a child together six years ago. But as I said, our marriage is not the same as it was before. We have both permanently changed as a result of my actions.

 

This is encouraging to me. Through my work, they pay for five sessions with a shrink. I already reached out to make an appointment. I came home today and my wife was crying. She asked me if I am hurting. I told her I am and that I want to make this work. She told me that it's never going to be same again. I have quite the social network so I would goto networking dinners and work-related after hour events. She said I can never go to those anymore. She said if that's the life I want. I told her I'll do what it takes. It's going to be hard.

[Mardelis]

Through my work, they pay for five sessions with a shrink.

 

 

You'll need at least 6 to fix this one.

[merrmeade]

In terms of parents, my counselor told me to tell my parents soon. Is this necessary now? If so, what's the benefit right now?

This kind of sneaked under the radar. It’s very telling that you ask that. There’s always someone the cheater really does not want to disappoint (you think). How telling is that?! It means you’re still holding back a real commitment to honesty and being accountable.

 

Why should you tell your parents? You really don’t see it? You’re OKAY with allowing them to think your marriage is something it’s not and , more important, that YOU are something you’re not? My husband asked me at the last minute before we were to tell our adult children (what turned out to not even be a tenth of the whole truth) if he really had to tell our oldest son because he would be so disappointed, lose respect and it would affect their relationship for life. I kid you not. He really said that. Do you understand yet? If it’s the truth and you don’t want others to find out because they’ll think less is of you it means you still are wanting and willing to live and be the lie for that person. If you lie to anyone about who you are, you’re no better than when you were actively cheating.

 

It’s like an alcoholic that’s been in denial but finally is ready to admit his alcoholism in order to do something about it. Mostly it’s about YOUR unhealthy tendency to defraud people for attention and flattery. Women’s sexual attraction is more about flattery to you than using them for sex. You used them to boost your ego.

 

Your marriage will never be the same. It will certainly not be better than it was since, because of the cheating, it was a lie anyway. You can’t compare with what it was (not) anyway. Yeah, like you my husband thought he could make it up by being what he thought was the best husband he could be. That is kind of sad because he really has no idea what that is or could be.

 

But the main thing I want you to understand and is that your wife will slowly wake up to who this person is that was able to pretend to be faithful but was lying all those years. She will see other ways that you are dishonest with yourself or need to impress people and say or do things for others’ admiration. She will see the real you IF you don’t now make it your life’s work to be the most authentic you possible.

 

I’m tired. I give up.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Folks, I wonder where Mrs. John Adams is? Her views on this matter would be invaluable especially for the OP. The fact is that I doubt that the OP's wife can ever come back from something like this. In Physics there is a term called elastic limit. Everything physical has an elastic limit. This means you can stretch or compress something within it's elastic limit and it will gradually return to it's original state of being. However if you pull it or compress it beyond it's elastic limit it will never return to it's original shape or size. It will remain permanently stretched or compressed in it's new shape. Of course that shape will be a distorted one. I am afraid that that is exactly what has happened with the OP's marriage. It is never ever going to have a semblance of it's original state. Too much water has flowed under the bridge, too many boats have been burnt, too many trains have left the station for that to now happen.

 

I guess what I am trying to get out there is that a lot of well meaning people on here are trying to provide the OP with hope that some day his relationship will come back on an even keel by giving him pointers on what he should do or how he should behave or whether he is remorseful or not and so on. However if the train has crashed and there are only smouldering remains left for people to work with, then I guess not much can be done to get that train up and running again. The OP would have to go through hell and high water before he can even begin to start hoping for any signs of normalcy in his relationship with his wife and family. I am sorry that I sound so negative about this but then I cannot see this another way. I have been untouched by infidelity but have seen instances of it in my life and I think I have developed an objective view of human behaviour in various circumstances. In this case this is what I genuinely believe and I think the OP has not begun to scratch the surface of the problem facing him. In spite of this I wish him the very best going forward and I would be very happy on his behalf if matters do get resolved in his favour.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Just a Guy

[elaine567]

She told me that it's never going to be same again. I have quite the social network so I would goto networking dinners and work-related after hour events. She said I can never go to those anymore. She said if that's the life I want. I told her I'll do what it takes. It's going to be hard.

 

 

This may not be a popular view, but don't bother trying to change your life. What is done is done. You can't fix this by trying to patch up your marriage.

Living a life of repentance, sorrow and shame forever, is not in your DNA.

It won't work, she won't "get better" soon enough for your timeline, this could take years literally, if ever, and before you know it, you will have got fed up and be back on Tinder for some love and affection.

This is 17 years of lying, she will never trust you again, to think you can pick up your marriage at some point, is naive.

Yes, you can go through the motions, but does she really deserve that?

She will never rest again as long as you are still in her life.

Do her a favour and move far away is my advice.

 

 

You will be happier, she will be happier, win win.

[whydontwe]

This kind of sneaked under the radar. It’s very telling that you ask that. There’s always someone the cheater really does not want to disappoint (you think). How telling is that?! It means you’re still holding back a real commitment to honesty and being accountable.

 

Why should you tell your parents? You really don’t see it? You’re OKAY with allowing them to think your marriage is something it’s not and , more important, that YOU are something you’re not? My husband asked me at the last minute before we were to tell our adult children (what turned out to not even be a tenth of the whole truth) if he really had to tell our oldest son because he would be so disappointed, lose respect and it would affect their relationship for life. I kid you not. He really said that. Do you understand yet? If it’s the truth and you don’t want others to find out because they’ll think less is of you it means you still are wanting and willing to live and be the lie for that person. If you lie to anyone about who you are, you’re no better than when you were actively cheating.

 

It’s like an alcoholic that’s been in denial but finally is ready to admit his alcoholism in order to do something about it. Mostly it’s about YOUR unhealthy tendency to defraud people for attention and flattery. Women’s sexual attraction is more about flattery to you than using them for sex. You used them to boost your ego.

 

Your marriage will never be the same. It will certainly not be better than it was since, because of the cheating, it was a lie anyway. You can’t compare with what it was (not) anyway. Yeah, like you my husband thought he could make it up by being what he thought was the best husband he could be. That is kind of sad because he really has no idea what that is or could be.

 

But the main thing I want you to understand and is that your wife will slowly wake up to who this person is that was able to pretend to be faithful but was lying all those years. She will see other ways that you are dishonest with yourself or need to impress people and say or do things for others’ admiration. She will see the real you IF you don’t now make it your life’s work to be the most authentic you possible.

 

I’m tired. I give up.

 

This past Sunday I told my parents, but not every specific detail. They were disappointed and my mom, especially, was in tears. We are at a public place, so everyone was a bit controlled. They are Christians and they said would pray for the situation. My mom said that I need to figure out me first before anything else. The marriage, or saving it, is second in priority. If I don't fix me, then this won't work and any future relationships won't work. This is what most of you are indicating in that I need to repair me before anything else can be repaired. I suppose it's like a car with a flat tire. That tires needs to be fixed before proceeding.

 

It's been over a week since d-day, and as time has progressed...I am experiencing the shock now. What have I done? Why did I do what I did? Why did I let it continue for so long without confessing earlier in the marriage? Why? I need figure out the "why".

[merrmeade]

I also don’t think there’s a prayer in hell because op is so immature emotionally. I’m 100 percent sure he won’t be able to do the necessary self-examination or behavior modification to change appreciably before she understands fully when who he was or is. She should be free.

[S2B]

Figure out how to make your life completely different than its ever been.

 

Everything must change... or you're likely to just stay the same.

 

Even attempting to with hold info from your parents shows that you don't "offer your truth".

 

Start learning to "offer" what's real.

 

You've been sneaky and hiding things for almost 20 years! Look where it got you!

 

Let go of old behaviors and grow into a person who you can be proud of.

 

Start doing everything completely different for a new outcome.

[Bittersweetie]

I am not going to say that no one can change because I've been there, it can be done, with hard work, commitment, and vulnerability. But I have to say that the level of deception in this case makes things very difficult. 17 years. A fake GPS. A hidden credit card. Who knows what else. OP's wife cannot trust that he loves her. She cannot trust he is where he says he is. She cannot trust that their money is being spent on their own family. She can't even trust her own memories because now she probably thinks: "That time I took the kids to visit my parents. Did he bring people to the house? Were they in our bed?"

 

Honestly, rebounding from this level of deception is going to take a heck of lot more than five therapy sessions. If you're serious you should plan accordingly.

 

As for telling people/parents: that's up to the BS. Of course after d-day I didn't want anyone to know. But my H decided who he was going to tell and I didn't really have a say in the matter. It was one of the many consequences of my actions.

[merrmeade]

This past Sunday I told my parents, but not every specific detail. They were disappointed and my mom, especially, was in tears. We are at a public place, so everyone was a bit controlled. They are Christians and they said would pray for the situation. My mom said that I need to figure out me first before anything else. The marriage, or saving it, is second in priority. If I don't fix me, then this won't work and any future relationships won't work. This is what most of you are indicating in that I need to repair me before anything else can be repaired. I suppose it's like a car with a flat tire. That tires needs to be fixed before proceeding.

 

It's been over a week since d-day, and as time has progressed...I am experiencing the shock now. What have I done? Why did I do what I did? Why did I let it continue for so long without confessing earlier in the marriage? Why? I need figure out the "why".

Yes, I suppose it is. So far you're barely passing this semester.

[whydontwe]

Figure out how to make your life completely different than its ever been.

 

Everything must change... or you're likely to just stay the same.

 

Even attempting to with hold info from your parents shows that you don't "offer your truth".

 

Start learning to "offer" what's real.

 

You've been sneaky and hiding things for almost 20 years! Look where it got you!

 

Let go of old behaviors and grow into a person who you can be proud of.

 

Start doing everything completely different for a new outcome.

 

In terms of details when I talked to my parents, it was enough but to the extent I told my wife. I wasn't really deliberately withholding information, but I got the sense that they heard enough. My dad was upset and was wanting to say "we're done here", but everyone eventually calmed down to discuss what's next. Since d-day I have not contacted anyone for services or any of the girls from online dating. Yes, there are moments when I think about some of the times I shared with one particular girl from OD, but day-by-day those thoughts are less frequent.

 

Every move I make to/from home and to/from work, I text my wife. I no longer have an Android phone which allowed me to use Fake GPS. I have an older iPhone now. I have been completely transparent.

[whydontwe]

Mostly it’s about YOUR unhealthy tendency to defraud people for attention and flattery. Women’s sexual attraction is more about flattery to you than using them for sex. You used them to boost your ego.

 

This I wholeheartedly admit. Not only with women, but in other aspects of life. I work hard at work to get the attention, praise, and raises. Maybe this is normal with work-life. But, I agree that I've realized that I've enjoyed the validation of women liking me, thinking I am 'all that', wanting to spend time with me, and texting me to say 'hi'. Yes, it felt good, if not, really good. For services, the instant gratification and, of course, those type of girls thinking I was all that too. These things made me happy. I realized that I now need to live for someone or something else, and I no longer for me.

 

It's always been about me. I've always wanted the latest tech gadget, new clothes, and even I change cars every 2 or 3 years. I've always wanted the latest and greatest, and looks like I treated women this way.

[Mr. Lucky]

It's always been about me. I've always wanted the latest tech gadget, new clothes, and even I change cars every 2 or 3 years. I've always wanted the latest and greatest, and looks like I treated women this way.

 

I have to wonder, what's your wife been doing for the last 17 years? At the very least, you've had her on ignore while your time and energy went into other things.

 

Just as you'd have some 180 degree changes to make, so does she have a lot of adjustments ahead. Is she in therapy also?

 

Mr. Lucky

[whydontwe]

I have to wonder, what's your wife been doing for the last 17 years? At the very least, you've had her on ignore while your time and energy went into other things.

 

Just as you'd have some 180 degree changes to make, so does she have a lot of adjustments ahead. Is she in therapy also?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I know I am going to be bashed again on my response, but here I go. I was and have been available for her and the family over the past 17 years. The paid services wasn't a daily or weekly event. It would be a 2 times in a week then nothing for months, then again once and then nothing for a few months. I didn't keep track, but I would say 5 times a year. I know, gross. For the online dating, that was recent in the last couple of months since August. Yes, for this, I spent Friday nights and some weeknights to meet people. I am not trying to defend myself here, but it wasn't like I ignored her and our kids the last 17 years. Regardless, I have no excuse for what I did. There's no excuse, but I just wanted to clarify the frequency, I suppose.

 

I personally haven't started therapy yet, but I believe it's going start next week. Still working with my insurance company. For her, I don't know if she has, but I know she's been leveraging resources at church to talk to people.

[Mr. Lucky]

I know I am going to be bashed again on my response

 

That you're starting to understand the reasons why some of your responses elicit varying skeptical or negative reactions, might in itself be some small increment of progress. Congratulations...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Amethyst68]

What about the time spent chasing OW IRL? You make it sound as if it was all business transactions or online hookups but your previous thread was all about you chasing your hairdresser.

 

 

 

Are we to believe she was the only person you pursued in your daily life?

 

 

Edited for spelling

[stillafool]

I swear OP, if your wife decides to keep you she is a better woman than I. I would just leave you because I can't see you not falling back into the same pattern.

[whydontwe]

I have not pursued any other women or temporary fixes since d-day. A few days ago, I asked her to forgive me regardless of the outcome of our relationship. I told her that if she could find it somewhere in her to forgive me for what've I done to her for the past 17 years. I didn't want us to be enemies. Asking for forgiveness in person wasn't easy for me because of my pride, but I felt it's the first step toward reconciliation.

 

Life moves on and we still live under the same roof with our two kids. It's still awkward and I feel like we are roommates rather than a couple. I try to talk to her almost every day to see how she's doing. Those conversations haven't been easy. It's uncomfortable, but needed if there's any glimmer of hope. She said actions speak louder than words. And, I've been doing everything right since d-day. This is going to take time, maybe years. What have I done!