Drawn to co-worker. We're both married.

[ExpatInItaly]

Yes, to answer question about the child, she addresses me by name and we respond to each other through the videos so anything she says is specific to my questions and vice versa. I have spoken to her a few times on the phone. We would talk while he waits for her in school and she would say hi to me when she gets in the car and we talk about her day.

 

This so, so wrong of you, OP. What are you thinking?

 

Absolutely shameful to get involved in this child's life. She doesn't understand what her dad and you are up to, and won't understand when you suddenly disappear from her life. It's unfair to her on every level. You are not her friend or her stepmom, and you should have had the good sense to decline any interaction with her from the beginning.

 

If you won't exercise respect for your or his marriage, at least exercise respect for a child who gets no say in the matter. I am shocked I'd need to spell that out to another adult, but here we are.

[BaileyB]

This does sound weird. And so very inappropriate, in so many different ways...

 

Has there been any moment in this whole thing - when he's picking up medication for his wife who has just had a breakdown, or when you are talking with his child on the phone - when you have thought, "This is not appropriate. I do not belong here."

 

For someone who has spent so much time analysing this man, his wife, their relationship... It's hard to believe that you have such little insight into the whole situation. You are so deep in denial and fantasy, I'm not sure what anyone could say that could give you pause to consider any other opinion than your own.

[BaileyB]

This so, so wrong of you, OP. What are you thinking?

 

Absolutely shameful to get involved in this child's life. I am shocked I'd need to spell that out to another adult, but here we are.

 

Of all that has been shared, this is without question the worst. It is absolutely shameful. It shows such poor judgment and it is so unbelievably inappropriate, it's hard to believe that two grown adults could have such poor judgment and be so careless with a child's emotions. If I was this child's mother and I knew what was happening, I would be furious!!

[brigit87]

This does sound weird. And so very inappropriate, in so many different ways...

 

Has there been any moment in this whole thing - when he's picking up medication for his wife who has just had a breakdown, or when you are talking with his child on the phone - when you have thought, "This is not appropriate. I do not belong here."

 

For someone who has spent so much time analysing this man, his wife, their relationship... It's hard to believe that you have such little insight into the whole situation. You are so deep in denial and fantasy, I'm not sure what anyone could say that could give you pause to consider any other opinion than your own.

 

It almost seems like a lifetime movie when the new woman tries to push the wife out and take over.

 

OP please leave these ppl alone. You're not the family therapist and you're not helping.

[LostSoul330]

I’ll probably get flamed even more for this. I sincerely did not see anything wrong with it, at least before everything i read in all your replies. To me I was being a friend who he opened up a lot to about his life, including his struggles and “meeting” his daughter. To his child i’m just her dad’s coworker. She’s met one or two at his other job that’s closer to their home. Same way i opened up to him about my own problems and him personally meeting my mom and sister.

 

What if we were just emotionally close and never got physical? Would it still have been wrong?

[BaileyB]

I’ll probably get flamed even more for this. I sincerely did not see anything wrong with it, at least before everything i read in all your replies. To me I was being a friend who he opened up a lot to about his life, including his struggles and “meeting” his daughter. To his child i’m just her dad’s coworker. She’s met one or two at his other job that’s closer to their home. Same way i opened up to him about my own problems and him personally meeting my mom and sister.

 

What if we were just emotionally close and never got physical? Would it still have been wrong?

 

If I may say, I think you are minimizing the situation. You are normalizing and minimizing to try and make your behavior more appropriate. So, I will offer this for you to consider...

 

Healthy relationships have clear boundaries. There needs to be a boundary. I have a male coworker who I adore. We have sat beside each other for years... I know a great deal about his life - during that time, his parents have died, my mother has died, his marriage ended, I met my partner, etc... We come to work every week and we talk for a few moments just to check in - "What's new? What's happening in your life?" When we have both had difficult times, we have sent the occasional text of concern, support, encouragement... I consider him to be a wonderful coworker and a friend.

 

I have never spent time outside of work with this man. We have never shared personal information about our relationships. I have never met or talked with his children. I have met his wife once or twice - when she has come to pick him up at work - and we have had friendly conversation.

 

There is a boundary there that we do not cross. But, that is because we are two emotionally healthy people who have good boundaries for what is appropriate in the workplace, and we both respect our relationship partners enough not to do anything that would be hurtful.

 

I think the big difference for you - there are no boundaries here. Clearly not, if you are picking up medication with him while his wife is in crisis and forming a relationship with his daughter.

 

And, you want more with this man. You have an interest in him - you claim it is "emotional closeness" that you want but if he was available to date, you would want a romantic and sexual relationship with him. That means, you can't be friends with him. You can't be "emotionally close."

 

If it's emotional connection that you want, make some new girlfriends. Or get a pet. Or talk to your husband. Or divorce your husband and find someone who is available to date.

 

To be very blunt, this man does not belong to you. You have no right to form a close personal relationship with another woman's husband and her child. They do not belong to you.

Edited October 16, 2018 by BaileyB

[DKT3]

Would it make a difference if you weren't having sex? Nope, because the intentions are the same, you want another womans husband.

 

Let's be honest here, in your mind, meeting his child means he is fully inviting you into his life. In your mind you see this as a great thing.

 

Look at it this way, say the stars align and the two of you walk away from your marriages (highly unlikely from either, especially him) how would his daughter react to you now ? Because now she will likely blame you for her parents not being together.

[BaileyB]

Let's be honest here, in your mind, meeting his child means he is fully inviting you into his life. In your mind you see this as a great thing.

 

Clearly. And yet, the spin is "She's an only child and she is lonley because her mother doesn't care for her... So she needs me." Which, if you are really being honest with yourself OP meets another need for you - the need to nurture and be "needed" by another person, in this case - another woman's child.

[Mr. Lucky]

I have never spent time outside of work with this man. We have never shared personal information about our relationships. I have never met or talked with his children. I have met his wife once or twice - when she has come to pick him up at work - and we have had friendly conversation.

 

I'm going to guess you've also never had sex with him.

 

LostSoul330, to add on to Bailey's point, the emotional connection you've formed with him is the gateway drug, almost always leads to further infidelity.

 

So the boundaries she describes are barriers to prevent that from happening. They also show respect for our partner and provide reinforcement for our own beliefs about marriage.

 

What if we were just emotionally close and never got physical? Would it still have been wrong?

 

Simple answer, yes, it would still be wrong. Coming to that realization is a step in your own growth...

 

Mr. Lucky

[elaine567]

Truth is most emotionally healthy women with their wits about them do not get involved in sob stories from married male coworkers, they do a quick swerve.

"Oh dear, how sad, must dash"

[brigit87]

Truth is most emotionally healthy women with their wits about them do not get involved in sob stories from married male coworkers, they do a quick swerve.

"Oh dear, how sad, must dash"

 

Totally. Going with a man to pick up his wives meds is just bizarre.

 

OP, maybe you will marry him and he'll have another woman in his car picking up your meds.

[ExpatInItaly]

To his child i’m just her dad’s coworker. She’s met one or two at his other job that’s closer to their home.

 

Do Dad's other coworkers chat on the phone with her? Send her personalized videos?

 

OP, come on. This little kid is not going to understand why her new big-kid friend (you, in her eyes) has suddenly vanished and doesn't want to talk to her or send her videos anymore.

 

Regardless of what the child perceives, your job as the adult is to not even cross these boundaries with little ones in the first place. I would ask you how you would feel if your own cheating husband put his side-piece on the phone with your kid, but somehow I don't think it's worth posing that question.

 

You might as well admit that you liked imagining yourself as this child's future stepmom and thought that getting close to her would help you win Dad over. Let's not sugarcoat it.

[Amethyst68]

So what would you think if this man telling you about his wife sitting next to him in the evening, or just spending time with their daughter and getting her to send texts and videos to the OM? But you know it's ok because she's lonely.

 

Does the scenario still seem so friendly to you now? Or can you begin to see why we think it's wrong? BTW I take it he's ok with her texting the OM as well as you?

[LostSoul330]

Let's be honest here, in your mind, meeting his child means he is fully inviting you into his life. In your mind you see this as a great thing.

 

You’re right, i admit it made me feel that at least he had no intentions to just play games when he invited me into his life. It made me think that this connection is something real.

[LostSoul330]

If I may say, I think you are minimizing the situation. You are normalizing and minimizing to try and make your behavior more appropriate. So, I will offer this for you to consider...

 

Healthy relationships have clear boundaries. There needs to be a boundary. I have a male coworker who I adore. We have sat beside each other for years... I know a great deal about his life - during that time, his parents have died, my mother has died, his marriage ended, I met my partner, etc... We come to work every week and we talk for a few moments just to check in - "What's new? What's happening in your life?" When we have both had difficult times, we have sent the occasional text of concern, support, encouragement... I consider him to be a wonderful coworker and a friend.

 

I have never spent time outside of work with this man. We have never shared personal information about our relationships. I have never met or talked with his children. I have met his wife once or twice - when she has come to pick him up at work - and we have had friendly conversation.

 

There is a boundary there that we do not cross. But, that is because we are two emotionally healthy people who have good boundaries for what is appropriate in the workplace, and we both respect our relationship partners enough not to do anything that would be hurtful.

 

I think the big difference for you - there are no boundaries here. Clearly not, if you are picking up medication with him while his wife is in crisis and forming a relationship with his daughter.

 

And, you want more with this man. You have an interest in him - you claim it is "emotional closeness" that you want but if he was available to date, you would want a romantic and sexual relationship with him. That means, you can't be friends with him. You can't be "emotionally close."

 

If it's emotional connection that you want, make some new girlfriends. Or get a pet. Or talk to your husband. Or divorce your husband and find someone who is available to date.

 

To be very blunt, this man does not belong to you. You have no right to form a close personal relationship with another woman's husband and her child. They do not belong to you.

 

I understand what you’re saying. I have platonic male friends and i know the difference. I even have that player coworker i have known for years and years and he would tell me about his games or whatever. He knows he can’t start anything with me because my boundaries were so clear. With MM it was just so different. Something about him broke down my walls. And i have a lot of walls that protect my inner self. I don’t know why or how. Maybe because he showed me his vulnerability first. I usually stop myself before i reveal too much like marriage problems or my mom’s current health situation. But he would coax me saying it’s okay to express myself. And he listened. Not interject his opinions or judge, but really listened.

 

Regarding your last paragraph, so does it seem like i’m the one with the void that needed to be filled? I guess i always thought it was him because he was the one who started this, started the videos, started the daily calls. His only close friends are his brothers and he said he had prayed to meet someone who he can connect with because his life has just revolved around his daughter ever since he became numb with his wife’s affair and he doesn’t have close friends since he is so shy.

 

Or maybe both of us had these unfulfilled needs and we gravitated closer towards each other? For him, he was able to come out his shell and tried a lot of new experiences, new food, etc. His life has always been so bland apparently. They don’t have couple friends and their families live in different states. For me, i was able to open up in more deeply emotional ways. And that need to be “needed” or to nurture like someone had mentioned here.

 

Well either way, he pulled back anyway and we just maintain our friendship at work. We still talk about our problems so i guess there is still the emotional closeness. He said I don’t know what i want and he believes he needs to be “better” for me and not take advantage since i am in limbo with my marriage while his is clearly dead.

[LostSoul330]

Totally. Going with a man to pick up his wives meds is just bizarre.

 

OP, maybe you will marry him and he'll have another woman in his car picking up your meds.

 

No he was just on the phone with me, venting about his day which included the part of his wife losing it over her MM because he wouldn’t leave his wife. MM could leave her alone and let her suffer and agonize over her affair but he doesn’t have it in him, as weak as that sounds. He thinks it’s being kind.

[LostSoul330]

Do Dad's other coworkers chat on the phone with her? Send her personalized videos?

 

OP, come on. This little kid is not going to understand why her new big-kid friend (you, in her eyes) has suddenly vanished and doesn't want to talk to her or send her videos anymore.

 

Regardless of what the child perceives, your job as the adult is to not even cross these boundaries with little ones in the first place. I would ask you how you would feel if your own cheating husband put his side-piece on the phone with your kid, but somehow I don't think it's worth posing that question.

 

You might as well admit that you liked imagining yourself as this child's future stepmom and thought that getting close to her would help you win Dad over. Let's not sugarcoat it.

 

Might as well admit, I’ve had fertility issues and so yes, there is that need to be filled. Unhealthy or not, that’s the reality unfortunately. We’ve tried going to fertility doctors and no luck. That’s why I’ve always gravitated towards children. With my friends, coworkers, their kids always ask for me because i play with them or take the time to talk to them. The type when at a party, i walk in the door and the kids come running because they are happy to see me. I’ve resigned myself to being “the favorite aunt”. Please don’t judge.

[LostSoul330]

It almost seems like a lifetime movie when the new woman tries to push the wife out and take over.

 

OP please leave these ppl alone. You're not the family therapist and you're not helping.

 

Can’t push wife out when she took herself out the marriage in the first place. That issue has been there long before i came in his life.

 

But i see the point where I should’ve been responsible in keeping my own boundaries with this child. I honestly thought it was a good thing he was inviting me in his life.

 

What intentions do you think he had? I mean, he knows about my fertility issues and how much i want kids and how I’ve tried and been disappointed repeatedly. I acknowledge it makes me smile when the little girl sends me videos and looks for me, and he knows that.

Edited October 17, 2018 by LostSoul330

[ExpatInItaly]

Can’t push wife out when she took herself out the marriage in the first place. That issue has been there long before i came in his life.

You have no clue if that's even true, to be fair. Despite what you believe, you can't possibly know the details of their marriage or what happens behind closed doors. You don't know that he's never cheated on her before or done things to hurt her to the point that she's checked out. He's got you believing his wife destroyed the marriage but you don't know how much of that he has caused.

 

What intentions do you think he had? I mean, he knows about my fertility issues and how much i want kids and how I’ve tried and been disappointed repeatedly. I acknowledge it makes me smile when the little girl sends me videos and looks for me, and he knows that.

His intention was to get you hooked on him. And it worked. It is sickening that he brought his child into this to do so. That speaks very poorly of him.

Edited October 17, 2018 by ExpatInItaly

[brigit87]

What intentions do you think he had? I mean, he knows about my fertility issues and how much i want kids and how I’ve tried and been disappointed repeatedly. I acknowledge it makes me smile when the little girl sends me videos and looks for me, and he knows that.

 

I don't know his intentions. He's not the one posting. For all I know he's gay and struggling with those issue.

 

But you seem to have gotten very friendly with a co-worker who is married. Why does he know your fertility issues...that's just so inappropriate.

[elaine567]

MM need to be able to persuade women that having an affair is a good thing. To do that he needs to break down the natural barrier.

"Ugh!, you are married, get back to your wife..."

 

He does it in many ways.

He usually first looks round for vulnerable women.

Women in unhappy marriages, women unlucky in love, women with issues, women who need a shoulder to cry on...

He becomes the supportive, sensitive, caring man that their partner/ex partner is not. In fact he will become anything she says she needs.

He inveigles his way into her life, he "grooms" her. She may want to be groomed though, "Here is a wonderful man, I want him for myself. "

But most MM seem to have a bundle of tricks up their sleeve to make sure a woman is "happy" being #2 though.

Whilst she thinks she is on her way to being #1, he seems to always manage to steer her back in the opposite direction.

She loves him, and that just makes her even easier to manipulate.

She waits, he prevaricates...

[Amethyst68]

So you never did answer my question - what would be your gut reaction if MM had came to you and said his daughter was openly texting and video messaging his wife's OM? Would you have said "oh that's good, she's lonely and need someone to talk to".

 

You have no idea what's going on in his marriage, he's hardly going to tell you everything's great after all you wouldn't be chasing him then would you? He wouldn't be getting the thrill and adrenaline rush from the affair, he'd be stuck in his everyday relationship.

 

BTW I may have missed it but other than him telling you, how do you even know his wife is having an affair?

 

It's time to stop justifying his actions because by doing this you're also justifying you're own.

[DKT3]

Can’t push wife out when she took herself out the marriage in the first place. That issue has been there long before i came in his life.

 

But i see the point where I should’ve been responsible in keeping my own boundaries with this child. I honestly thought it was a good thing he was inviting me in his life.

 

What intentions do you think he had? I mean, he knows about my fertility issues and how much i want kids and how I’ve tried and been disappointed repeatedly. I acknowledge it makes me smile when the little girl sends me videos and looks for me, and he knows that.

 

Their marriage is not your concern. Like so many WW/OW you are very naive when it comes to MM.

 

My question is what about your marriage? If you spent half the energy on your marriage as you do with MM marriage maybe you would be in a better place either a better marriage or single.

[BaileyB]

Regarding your last paragraph, so does it seem like i’m the one with the void that needed to be filled? I guess i always thought it was him because he was the one who started this, started the videos, started the daily calls.

 

Well either way, he pulled back anyway and we just maintain our friendship at work. He said I don’t know what i want and he believes he needs to be “better” for me and not take advantage since i am in limbo with my marriage while his is clearly dead.

 

Most definitely, it would seem that you have a void that needs to be filled. You are unhappy in your marriage and you want to be a mother... Those are two really difficult things to deal with in your life.

 

So, you have found this escape. This "emotional closeness" with another man that gives you hope, something to look forward to that makes you feel better.

 

As Elaine said earlier, an emotionally healthy woman with healthy boundaries would see this guy coming a mile away and swerve - "So sorry, gotta dash..."

 

I'm sorry about your infertility problems. For this man to know that and purposefully introduce you to his daughter is quite cruel. Either he is completely clueless, or malicious.

 

As to why he has backed off, I think he is biding his time. You are vulnerable, so he is grooming you and it takes time... Don't be a victim. Don't allow yourself to get sucked up into his drama. Walk away and deal with the hard stuff - deal with your marriage.

[SouthernIslander]

YouÂ’re right, i admit it made me feel that at least he had no intentions to just play games when he invited me into his life. It made me think that this connection is something real.

 

That’s the serious problem with this. Kids aren’t tools to use for the purpose of confirming your place with a man, nor is it coming from a genuine place for the child on either side.

 

I encourage you to do some soul serching to see why you have a need to enable this type of behavior and why you don’t see what a flaming red flag this. Involving kids in an affair in any capacity is trifling and inexcuseable.

 

Take what he says about his wife with a grain of salt. If he’ll drag his own kid in the middle of adult mess, I am pretty sure you’re not getting the full story..or even half of it.

Edited October 19, 2018 by SouthernIslander