Change

[Arris]

I'm posting in this section because my wife and I are separated, and she served me papers a few weeks ago.

Basically, over a 3 year period I shutdown, but every night I cuddled with her in bed, I just wasn't talking much or answering concerns.

In that 3 years, we worked opposite shifts, so I didn't see her all week anyways, and weekends were filled with the kids sports. We have 3 kids.

In that shutdown, I worked hard on myself, to be a better person, a better husband and a better father, not that I was ever bad, but I wasn't exactly open or confident.

She said she lost her love for me by the time I snapped out of it. Which really had to be near the end because she was there until maybe the last month before something in her snapped. The preceding year we kind of tried but we got it all wrong in hindsight because we just tried to go back to the way things were and never truly addressed anything. I was to busy trying to prove myself to her and she was closed off. Possibly caught up in a fantasy affair because she met a new guy at her 2nd job that was the owner. She denies it but I think there's something there, I don't know.

 

 

Put any thought of an affair to the side. I'm still trying to save my marriage and my family.

 

 

I'm wondering what does change mean? She seems so hung up on change and moving on as if heavens doors are going to open for her. I was in the same place as her, but I'm telling you, nothing was more powerful than knowing that family matters most and there's so much to do as a family or as a couple. There's no need to go outside the marriage, or to find some fantasy down the road. I don't mean to sound bitter if I am, understand, our family was always awesome, we revolved around our kids and each other. In fact, I was a stay at home Dad leading up to my new job and I think that distance of not seeing my family all week, helped throw me in my depression. I don't think she understands that your choices are taken away from you in depression and not everyone has the same triggers or reaction.

 

Anyways, I understand the 180 concept, and I tried it, not intentionally, but because I truly let go. Before that, it's been since December since she really talked to me, but after I let go, all of the sudden she was nice and I almost couldn't get away from her.

It wreaks havoc on me because I would run back in a heartbeat, only I know she's just being nice. I try to ignore it, but sometimes, those are the small signs and I'll say, it's like trying to start a fire, once you see that smoke, you can start a fire if you just ever so slightly blow on it.

Problem is, the divorce is looming over my head and it makes me anxious, like there's no more time left. I love my family, but once the divorce is final, I will be lost for good. There wouldn't be anything left of me if I don't get myself to move on with no hope of reconciling. I at least want to salvage as much of a relationship with my kids as I can and I need to be healthy to do that. Her lawyer drew up unfair time visits, but my wife and the kids all agree to keep doing what we've been doing, 2 days on, 2 days off. I do have my own attorney and he just countered.

 

 

I'm trying to give her a different way to look at change, because I believe a greater change can come from within the marriage. She loves our kids just as much as I do, so I'm a bit confused by her. We've been married for 19 years, and together for 30. That's why I mention an affair, and other reasons. I don't know how I'm coming off, but I'm just trying to go fast here and you can never have good context from something typed. She does say I'm the best version of myself she's known and I'm a great father. We've always gotten along great, never had any real issues. I'm not boring, I get into everything and anything. I don't have any self absorbed hobbies, but I do things like jog, weights or golf, I just don't put anything ahead of my family.

 

 

If it's an affair, fine, but I don't want to miss anything else because I don't want to see our family break up. It's been 2 years since my shutdown and 10 months since she moved out.

She is not up for marriage counseling, she doesn't 'want' to try. It just goes against everything we've been for 30 years. I'm 46 and she's 44, our kids are 16,14 and 11. They are all in honors classes.

 

 

Another thing that bothers me is hearing how fine and good my kids are. That came out wrong, I mean in my opinion, divorce is going to have an ugly, negative impact on them. While we'll do what we can, I know our family and this is terrible for them. We raised them in being a team as a family, now how do they trust anything we say or do?

Also, being separated has limited our role in what we can do for our kids. Instead of 2 people sharing responsibilities around 1 house, now we have 1 person in 2 separate houses doing everything. It leaves no time to take the kids out to practice sports, to go for a walk or hike, bike ride, you get it. I almost feel guilty if I only take one kid out to do something where as before they would be with Mom so it was no big deal.

There's just so many ways that we lose out in so much as a family. That's the part that makes it the toughest for me. I haven't been able to do much, everything is a struggle. I'm usually mostly myself when the kids are here, but sometimes, they're in their moods, as they are teens I get it, but to me it hurts. I'm not making excuses either for them, but I know as teens, they need some space. I also know they won't be around the house for long and we're losing all this time to share moments. As is, I only get them 6 months out of the year.

Divorce is terrible with kids and I don't get it. If my wife is having an affair, I will lose all respect for her because she truly has everything right here in our marriage. There is absolutely no excuse for cheating when you have 3 kids and at least a workable marriage.

 

 

So why become fixated on change when all it does is destroy your family??

[Arris]

I should add, I love philosophy.

 

 

I understand change can be good and everyone should make some changes to keep growing, my problem is when that change may be good on one hand, but destroys something that matters most. When all along, a greater change can happen that would help what matters most and the individual themselves most.

[GinON]

I am new to this but trying to contribute, many here have helped me.

 

I love my family, but once the divorce is final, I will be lost for good. There wouldn't be anything left of me if I don't get myself to move on with no hope of reconciling.

 

That statement tell me you haven't found the place you need to be. You need to fix that because you are dependent on her for your happiness and she or anyone will run like hell to get away from that kind of neediness from an adult. Your parents hopefully made you feel like that as an infant but you can't put that kind of pressure on another adult and expect them to respect you. I cant guess at what work you need to do but you need to figure out how to get to the point where you are a whole person. And if you happen to have a partner, all the better! Your kids need to see that from you or they will copy you in their relationships.

 

Your situation sounds difficult, I am sorry.

[Arris]

Thanks, I feel very confident in myself and where I am.

It's not that I rely on her for happiness, it's more that we just have always been tight, and we have a family. To me, marriage and raising kids is a lifelong commitment.

She is my wife and mother of my kids and I take that to heart, but not to where it's unhealthy for me or her.

There really should be no reason we couldn't work on things with our history. I really feel betrayed and it's hard to fight for your family and then have to turn around and worry about seeming desperate or needy. Those kinds of thoughts have been in the back of my mind, but shouldn't be because we've been together forever.

I am struggling, but I'm choosing to stay and fight until the end. It's hard because I have to keep my heart open which makes me vulnerable, and she doesn't make it easy. I don't know.

I guess, as far as reconciling and family, I have everything together, but as far as adjusting to being on my own after divorce, it's ok but I really just don't like where it leaves our kids. That's probably it. Me and my wife were a great team as parents.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm posting in this section because my wife and I are separated, and she served me papers a few weeks ago.

Basically, over a 3 year period I shutdown, but every night I cuddled with her in bed, I just wasn't talking much or answering concerns.

In that 3 years, we worked opposite shifts, so I didn't see her all week anyways, and weekends were filled with the kids sports. We have 3 kids.

In that shutdown, I worked hard on myself, to be a better person, a better husband and a better father, not that I was ever bad, but I wasn't exactly open or confident.

She said she lost her love for me by the time I snapped out of it. Which really had to be near the end because she was there until maybe the last month before something in her snapped. The preceding year we kind of tried but we got it all wrong in hindsight because we just tried to go back to the way things were and never truly addressed anything. I was to busy trying to prove myself to her and she was closed off. Possibly caught up in a fantasy affair because she met a new guy at her 2nd job that was the owner. She denies it but I think there's something there, I don't know.

 

 

Put any thought of an affair to the side. I'm still trying to save my marriage and my family.

 

Well, there's enough confusion, holes and contradictions in just this part of your post to render much advice moot.

 

In that shutdown, I worked hard on myself, to be a better person, a better husband and a better father, not that I was ever bad, but I wasn't exactly open or confident. She said she lost her love for me by the time I snapped out of it.

 

How are you being a "better husband" when so disconnected you need to be "snapped out" of a "shutdown"?

 

Put any thought of an affair to the side. I'm still trying to save my marriage and my family.

 

And I want to walk on the moon. But put any thought of space travel to the side...

 

Can't be done. You can't have a marriage when your wife is involved with someone else, 1+1+1 doesn't make a happy couple.

 

I'd guess your wife has viewed your actions over the last several years from a very different perspective than you have. And her perception, since she feels checked out of your marriage, has caused her to feel entitled to seek happiness elsewhere. As long as she feels that way, your options are very limited.

 

Sorry this has happened to you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[vla1120]

If she does not want to work on the marriage by going to counseling, I think your only option is to keep working on yourself. Be the best dad you can be. If you spend your time working on finding your own happiness, those efforts will show. Maybe, in time, that is something that might attract her. On the other hand, maybe once you are content with yourself, you will recognize the shortcomings in your marriage and realize that you want something more out of a partnership, especially if you determine she is involved with another man. Make the changes for YOU.

[Jamess1]

The problem isn't really your circumstances, is your perception and conditioning. I have all the answers and more, than I have the time to write..

 

Tried to send you a private msg but it failed to deliver, consider buying this book

 

Your wife was having an affair,in other words she is now a whore, despite what your thoughts about her are...

 

Contrary to the myth of a '...husband abandoning her wife and family for a younger woman' what you are going trough is the most common experience, '...a good husband and family being abandoned by wife for another man, probably richer,famous,sexier etc than you are'...75% of all divorces are filed by women, and make no mistake, they are not divorcing bad, abusive, cheating men (in fact they are more loyal to such men), they are divorcing loyal,good, devoted men like you...

 

A woman you have treated like an angel for 30+ years, can leave and abandon you for another guy she met at work for 1 month, there is no 'relationship equity' with women, your sacrifices are already forgotten and "will not be appreciated" in any future decision : 'expect selfish, unfair,inconsiderate terms in the divorce, female solipsism'.

 

In fact femininity doesn't reward goodness: in fact don't be surprised to realize that she left you for a married adulterer 'who promised to leave his wife for her and never did', or a broke bad-boy drug addicted, or 4 time divorcée, or her married boss, etc

 

Family, children or marriage are not her priority, hypergamy is. It is her fault and hers alone that the marriage ended, in fact nowadays a divorce is financially rewarding for women, she will get half of everything you worked for, to spend with her new man. She will eliminate you from your kids,despite that not being the best choice for them: hence fight for them, their opinion or her opinion don't matter, children need a father in their lives..you are your children's father,not their best friend, you're the leadership in their lives- and this might involve making decisions they will hate you for now but will appreciate when they are adults-they are your flesh and blood,despite their mother's loose legs-be there in their lives (she is obviously manipulating their opinion about you, they will realize it when they are older that mommy manipulated them against u,and yet she is the one who cheated on daddy for new diick experience and destroyed their family, but for now ,fight to stay in their lives, they need you...)

 

The affair started way back, before you had any suspicion, don't be surprised if it was before or even a year after the marriage. They could have been multiple affairs too: the more this sounds unlikely to you the greater the chances it's true: if one of your kids doesn't resemble you, get a DNA test.

 

There is more to say, priorities your kids, your wealth (don't settle for giving her more than she deserves) and read this book, your wonderful life as a man has just begun...

 

Sooner or later, she will try to creep back in your life when she realizes her mistake and the reality of her SMV (Sexual Market Value) as a divorced above 40+ woman, with 3 children: the men she will meet will pump and dump, they will take the easy sex and give her no commitment, it will be fun at first but it will start to depress her...When she comes begging do NOT take her back, I repeat : do NOT take her back...

Edited October 12, 2018 by Jamess1
Minor errors...

[Arris]

Mr Lucky, yes, sorry for the holes in the story, it's long.

My wife and I met when she was 15 and I was 17, we dated for 10 years and then got married in '99.

Everything was great, had our first child in 2002, right around the time I got laid off, so we decided I would be the stay at home Dad.

I did work on a number of part time jobs, cement work, finishing basements , worked in a construction supply shop welding and delivering. Had a couple summers as summer help in a big factory as well.

Then we had 2 more kids in 04 and 07, by 07 I was a full time stay at home.

In 2012, I was called into the big factory again as a temp, a year later I was hired in. I worked second shift, my wife worked mornings, but worked 5 minutes from home, so I would see her on her lunch breaks for 20 minutes.

 

 

I got off at 11pm, she was normally asleep on the sofa, so I'd wake her up and go to bed together.

After a year of this, I missed out on so much, I was always involved in what the kids did all day prior to work, but working 2nd I was away from it all. I always waited for my wife to get off work to share the day and find something to do before I got called into work.

This really took a toll on me, but I thought I could handle it. I would be able to have my wife quit, do whatever she wanted and provide for the kids. So, I stuck to it but slipped into depression.

 

 

I shut my wife out, and she begun to have fears that I was cheating and only once did I tell her that I don't cheat, I was kind of offended she would even ask. Not the right mindset, but I wasn't in my right mind.

When you're depressed, you don't have many options. All I could do was wonder what was wrong with me, but I didn't know well enough to seek professional help, so I worked on it myself.

I read everything, philosophy, the bible, psychology books, internet. I couldn't do much, but, I could at least work on myself. That's how I worked on being a better dad and husband. I went through myself and tried to improve, mostly what helped me was when I look at emotional vulnerability and stoic philosophy. The bible was great help as well.

I never truly snapped out of it, it was more like a fog slowly lifting. I didn't realize that and tried making amends while I was still under a bit.

Then, once I started reading books on marriage help, things finally started clicking. I also realized, there's just so much I don't know still and that to get through it, it would take both of us. I couldn't just read, I needed to practice what was in the book.

 

 

We tried her therapist a couple of times together, but she was no couples therapist. When I suggested we get a dedicated couples therapist, she said she tried to get me to go to a therapist, and I didn't go. Which was weird because I went 3 times and they never invited me back, and she was with me for 2 of the meetings.

 

 

So, I was shutdown for about 3 years, but it's not like I seen her in the week to be able to close our distance. If the plant shut down for a couple weeks, or months, we always begun to heal without even trying. I would say, the plant during that time went down for at least 2 months each year.

 

 

When I say shutdown, I just wasn't talking much, I wouldn't normally reply with I love you if she said it. If it had anything to do with feelings or my mind, I was defensive and didn't want to hear it. If we talked about the kids or something, I was ok.

 

 

So, about 2 years into my shutdown, she picked up a 2nd job, I think mainly to distract herself. I never liked it, but it wasn't in me to say anything. She met the owner of a construction company and he hired her under the table to do things like payroll and get his finances in order.

Half the office stuff was at his house or the shop. He was single with a kid. At first he may have still been trying to date the mom, I don't know and never cared.

 

 

When we would go on long soccer trips on the weekend, 45minutes away, she would say how her and this guy were just out here looking at a house. I would immediately shut back down after talking. She handles paperwork and money, no need to be driving her to job sites, but she always had an excuse.

 

 

So now as my fog was lifting, I wanted to start making an amends, get things worked out and priority number one was, getting her to quit the shop. It wasn't just the guy, it was her spare time being used up instead of spending it on family. This job was 24/7, and they were no good at setting up boundaries. He would call before 7am, after 11pm, no respect in my book.

 

 

We fought about this, and really this alone. One night, I looked at her phone and he sent her a pic of his kid at 11:30 at night. Sorry, but a guy sending a married woman pics of his kid is a red flag.

 

 

There's been more, like the time she ditched me and the kids at night because there was an emergency at work. She handles insurance so she was at his house working on things. I tried texting and I said it's late, nobodies open anyways, come home. No reply, so I told her I was on my way. I knocked on the door, and before I knocked, they were sitting across from eachother at the table. This was the first time I met him, and he was nice, my wife on the other hand started yelling at me and apologizing for me. All I did was knock and was very respectful, wasn't making a scene until she started.

 

 

During this period, she had mentioned divorce already and I didn't take it well, so she said she felt worried for me and kept quiet about it. Also, this period was when she said we tried working on things. I alwaus argued, we didn't get a chance to work on things because she was never home and wouldn't commit to trying because she wouldn't quit the shop. I was also permanently laid off during this time.

 

 

If we fought, it was always over the shop. I even tried conceding and asked her no work on the weekends at least, it was family time. She agreed, said she told him and he understood family was more important, but it didn't last a single weekend.

 

 

Then in December, things went very distant from her and in January, she moved out. A week and a half after she moved out, I rode past her house and noticed the car missing, so I went to check on them at his house. I walked past the front window and it seemed ok. So I sat back in my car up a few houses, noticed the lights go dim, and that's usually when they leave, I know from a couple other times I checked on her. But, it was taking too long, so I got out and went next to the house and noticed they were in a back bedroom and it was 1am. So I quickly started to pound on the front door and when he heard it was me, he disappeared and my wife came running out. She was mad at me and he was behind her and said, oh this sounds personal, I'll be in the basement. She was like no wait, then turned and yelled at me how it was over and she was done. Fine, but I said we're still married and you can wait for anything until after everything is settled. She said she doesn't answer to me, and I said you need to go home or I'm coming in, so she went home. I followed her and we talked through a locked bedroom door. I said, if somethings going on just tell me now and I'll leave and you won't have to worry about me anymore, that it's ok just so I can move on. She said he was showing her something on his ipad and the battery was dead and the cord was in there. I debated all the things you would probably say, including it's 1am and you work tomorrow, you don't need to watch a video, to bring the charger out to a different room.

 

 

Yeah, amazing how blind we can be when we don't want to believe something so obvious, but I have to admit, I'm still 50/50 on whether to believe her.

 

 

During the divorce, she wants custody, child support and she gets the kids 8 to my 6 days out of 2 weeks, including all weekends. We had been doing 2 days on and off, so I asked her and she said she didn't see what the lawyer wrote. Then when I pressed her, she mentioned the attorney did that to offset spousal support. Hmmm

 

 

She did say she would be paying bills at both homes, and everything else is pretty much 50/50. She has more than I do to split. For income though, she left out her under the table job and she makes maybe 12 to 20k a year from that. She also came up with 42k in furniture assets, I came up with 2k. Had a friend give me his opinion and he was right in line with me. When I asked my wife about that, she got mad and said how much we paid for things, but I said that was 20 years ago and it's only worth what someone will give you. She said only according to me, but I know I'm right.

 

 

She's giving me the option to keep the house, but again, I forgot to fix this before I turned in my paperwork, she has the house appraised at full market value, but we need to update before I think it will sell at full value. Heck, everything is 20 years old. We had our house built and moved in the day we married.

 

 

She has also told me she does not spend on our joint credit card so she knows what I spend. It's fine, I only buy food, food for the kids.

 

 

I am jobless right now, after being laid off I qualified for free schooling up to 2 years. From the start, I asked her to help me go over things. I wanted something that would work with family, I don't care where I work, for the most part. She deals with a lot of people and knows about careers, but she never helped. A neighbor of mine told me to go to RN school, so I think that's what I'm going to do. It pays well and the schedule is semi flexible. Yes, I love helping people too. First, it appears my best option is to become an LPN first, then bridge over to RN.

 

 

I haven't paid a bill ever, my wife took care of all this because of where she worked. She also managed her Dads, sisters and brothers finances. So, there wasn't much she ever needed from me.

 

 

I'm in bad shape here honestly. I am hurting, and sometimes I just can't move. I'm only getting deeper in the hole because I know I should be filling out apps, getting in school, talking to a realtor about my house value and what's available in houses. I have no idea how to manage cable, internet, trash, credit cards, all that stuff. I can figure it all out, cable I can get by without, I need internet. It's just way too much for me to handle all at once and I've been unable to progress even one step at a time.

 

 

I have had a list of things I wanted to do to get things in order, but the second I stand to go do something, I fall to me knees and that's it. Only recently have I been making progress, but not enough as I fear it's all going to slam on me at once and I know I had all this time, but I just can't move.

 

 

I really can't tell you enough how great a family I had. We all worked great together. I really don't want to do this to my kids, it will have a huge impact on them, but everyone seems to think they'll be ok, and I know they will be, but they are going to lose so much after this divorce, it sickens me.

 

 

I might sound weak or desperate to some of you, but I'm standing here to fight in what I believe in and I'll gut through all this pain until the end. Although it's hard now, when it's all said and done I'll be able to feel satisfied that I gave it all I had and I hope that's enough to move me ahead. If I can't reach her, I am so done with her, other than what I must endure for the kids sake.

 

 

Someone mentioned manipulating the kids, and I agree. She's very outgoing and personable, so I can't compete, but I learned if I just stay true to who I am, things have a way of working out. I'm big on being open and honest with the kids. Just as I would want if I were a kid. I would be upset if my parents ever kept things from me, especially the important things in life.

 

 

I also read on another site about going full exposure with an affair, letting everyone know as long as you have proof. Well, I don't have proof and it's in my best interest not to see any. They say it must be done to save your marriage because it helps dissolve the affair. While I would do anything to save my marriage, I still have to do what's right by me. I would love to expose them, but I just don't think it's me. Also, I'm not 100% convinced she is in an affair, but I know that sounds dumb to you guys.

 

 

I let my attorney know that I need extra help because I can't stick up for myself here. Hopefully I can trust him.

 

 

I have to go, I may have left things out again.

[Arris]

vla1120, great advice and very pinpoint accurate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jamess, you missed on a few points because of the limited info I gave, but I understand your overall message. I'm going to go through it again and check out those links. Too bad my messages wasn't working, I can use all the support there is.

[Marc878]

Whatever gets put into the final divorce papers you'd better expect her to Go for.

 

Her words won't mean squat.

 

Better wake up!!!!!

[Arris]

Absolutely Marc.

 

 

I really don't care about any of this, but I know what's fair. Even still, I do pay attention and I try to stay on top of what's going on.

 

 

As long as I'm given a fair chance to get back to my feet, which may take 2 to 3 years.

Also, I want 100% 50/50 time with kids, and no CS. Though, I would think because of our roles, I'd be entitled to CS.

[S2B]

She's been lying to you for a long time. She's also been cheating long enough to care about her OM more than you.

 

So it's time for hardball. She filed for D so that indicates she does intend to divorce you... after all she's in the affair fog.

 

 

So update the court papers and be sure to list her pay that's under the table! Be sure to request spousal support! Hit her hard!!! Request the kids more than her.

 

And expose now to all family and friends!

 

They may not support you but at least you'll show her that there are consequences for bad behavior.

 

Stop being nice to her - she's purposely ruined your life.

[S2B]

Absolutely Marc.

 

 

I really don't care about any of this, but I know what's fair. Even still, I do pay attention and I try to stay on top of what's going on.

 

 

As long as I'm given a fair chance to get back to my feet, which may take 2 to 3 years.

Also, I want 100% 50/50 time with kids, and no CS. Though, I would think because of our roles, I'd be entitled to CS.

 

You take the CS! You take the spousal support too!

[Rotn'roses]

You wrote what sounds like an unbelievably honest post about your situation and feelings from allthat I can gather from what you have shared with everyone here on this site. I commend your bravery and thank you for sharing. I feel the brevity of your current situation, as you shared it, is something I know little to nothing about and so, although I cannot offer you any sage advice, I do wish you the best during this trial and heart wrenching time in your families, and especially, in your life at this moment in time. I sometimes wish I had known what marriage and a family of my own would have been like, but, I unfortunately do not know about this kind of human experience at all. All I know is what I hear or see or learn from others about the great mystery of marriage. I am sorry you stated that you (feel you) are losing yourself, your wife, and your family and life because of a looming divorce, right now, in your life. I can not imagine how hard it must be for you all, and you, especially. I pray that you can find peace in the eye of the storm, as it passes over you all, and that you can find the strength to impress that peace onto the family that you have left after all is said and done.

I know that if I could find one trait toget me through all the terrible, confusing, and undesirable situations that have been a part of my life past, present, and future, I would pray and hope and strive to handle all (my) situations with Grace. I pray that above all, in your times of heartbreak or heartache, that you find the Good grace to handle all your situations. Lord knows, it is the hardest way to accept the bad things that we do or that come our way in life sometimes, but it seems like it would be the most rewarding and pleasant and classy way to manage the bitters of life, when they come our way. Peace be with you and your house, asPaul the apostle once said. God bless.

[Rotn'roses]

I am curious about something...and I apologize for asking this question here, on your thread, but since it pertains to your situation...can anyone tell me how ahusband or wife can sit inside amarriage and watch their spouse " disconnect" or what ever the term is you used or anyone else has used, about shutting down? What does shutting down mean? It seems to be relevant to long partnerships or marriages, mainly, from what I keep reading on these sites or anywhere, for that matter? No judgement here, just curiousis all, and I pray no offense is taken at my question. I am just curious about marriage and the way two people interact inside itsconfines. I know I have gone nuts in the past when someone I loved and was committed to was not present but present in our relationship. My ex had a lot of addictions he hid for many years and he only used me, I realize now, but because I loved him I fought for him for years and he never did much at all or was around a whole lot. I just cant imagine watching someone you love be so despondant and not go crazy with worry and grief and try to reach out and help them somehow. Was your spouses love or care not shown enough during your shutdown(s)? I know now that a shutdown is a serious sign of a desperate need of some kind of help from another person. Especially a spouse. Surely two people would have to play their part in that mess. But when one is weak, the other should uplift. And vice versa. It is not agape love. It is philos love, hopefully, at the least that a marriage contains. Giving and taking-back and forth, when one is needed and to be reciprocated when needs dictate it, as such. Such a thing, makes me curious, is all. Is there no passion or compassion or love or selflessness after so many years with the same person in marriage...does it just die or slowly eek away...the bible tells us that love never fails...but your story and many others tell a different story...Im so sorry for all the pain these tales tell. I pray that all ends well for you.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Arris, I am sorry for the situation you find yourself in. Sadly, you are in a very weak position visit a vis your wife. You are jobless at present and from everything you write it appears that your wife is smart and very qualified as a finance person. Is she a CFA? In any case your immediate effort should be to qualify yourself for a much better and more on demand job than you are currently qualified for. You have a twenty year marriage so your wife cannot say that she made an error in choosing you as a husband. I do not know if some of her qualifications were acquired while she was married to you or whether she was already fully qualified when she married you. Sadly, I think when spouses are unequally qualified especially in the case of the husband, a marriage is on a bit of shaky ground right from the start. In your case it seems this disparity along with the fact that you have lost your job and your three year shutdown seem to have driven her away from you.

 

I hate to say this but apparently she holds most of the cards and because of her superior financial position as against yours, she is likely to call the shots. There is not much you can do and do my advice would be to try for an amicable divorce where you do not possible her off and can work out reasonable yes for your parting. Remember, in the long term qualify yourself for a well paying and stable job so that your next relationship is built on solid grounds. Best wishes.

[vla1120]

I am curious about something...and I apologize for asking this question here' date=' on your thread, but since it pertains to your situation...can anyone tell me how ahusband or wife can sit inside amarriage and watch their spouse " disconnect" or what ever the term is you used or anyone else has used, about shutting down? What does shutting down mean? It seems to be relevant to long partnerships or marriages, mainly, from what I keep reading on these sites or anywhere, for that matter? No judgement here, just curiousis all, and I pray no offense is taken at my question. I am just curious about marriage and the way two people interact inside itsconfines. I know I have gone nuts in the past when someone I loved and was committed to was not present but present in our relationship. My ex had a lot of addictions he hid for many years and he only used me, I realize now, but because I loved him I fought for him for years and he never did much at all or was around a whole lot. I just cant imagine watching someone you love be so despondant and not go crazy with worry and grief and try to reach out and help them somehow. Was your spouses love or care not shown enough during your shutdown(s)? I know now that a shutdown is a serious sign of a desperate need of some kind of help from another person. Especially a spouse. Surely two people would have to play their part in that mess. But when one is weak, the other should uplift. And vice versa. It is not agape love. It is philos love, hopefully, at the least that a marriage contains. Giving and taking-back and forth, when one is needed and to be reciprocated when needs dictate it, as such. Such a thing, makes me curious, is all. Is there no passion or compassion or love or selflessness after so many years with the same person in marriage...does it just die or slowly eek away...the bible tells us that love never fails...but your story and many others tell a different story...Im so sorry for all the pain these tales tell. I pray that all ends well for you.[/quote']

 

I can only answer your question about spouses in shutdown mode from my own experiences. In both of my (failed) marriages, my shutdown was for self-preservation for different reasons.

 

In the first (32-yr) marriage, I stayed with him after he cheated. He cheated multiple times. In each case, I stayed because of the timing (we were about to change duty stations in the Navy, or I was very pregnant and was not emotionally prepared to leave, etc.) After the third time, when his affair with my friend and neighbor was outed by my then 5-yr-old daughter when I came home from work one night - 7 months pregnant - working 10-14 hr days while he was out of work- I went into total shutdown mode. Neither he nor my friend would even admit to the affair, though they were SEEN together by my daughter. I could not eat or sleep. I get sick to my stomach even now, 23 years later. Marriage counseling allowed me to function in the marriage, but even then, it was pretty much a business arrangement to keep the family intact. Period.

 

In my current marriage, I made the mistake of marrying a man even though there were red flags galore. But, he had stage III cancer and no health insurance and I did love him. Even though I knew he had a controlling nature, I figured I was strong enough to handle it. During our four-year marriage, he believed that I was the one who needed counseling and only agreed to go so that he could tell the therapist what was wrong with me. I went into shutdown mode about a year into the marriage. There was no reasoning with him because I was always wrong and nothing that went wrong in his life was ever his fault. About two years ago, when I told him I would only come back to him (after leaving him the first time) if he attended therapy for himself, he agreed and was eventually diagnosed with Narcissist Personality Disorder. Of course, in his mind, the therapist is dead wrong. Shutdown mode was the only way I could deal with him. There is no arguing/reasoning with someone who has NPD. Unfortunately, me going into shutdown mode translated to total compliance in his mind. As bad as I thought he was, he only got worse once I started to try to reverse the effects of going into shutdown mode. I left him again 4 months ago and I will not be going back. I will still act as his caretaker in the respect that I deal with his doctors and the insurance company, but will be extremely careful to keep the boundaries very clearly defined, for my own sanity.

 

So, in both of my cases, I think shutdown mode was interpreted as compliance or acceptance. Maybe that is what happens with other marriages too. I don't know. I only know one thing. Marriage is not for me. I won't get burned again.

[Arris]

vla1122, I think self preservation is probably the number one reason for someone shutting down, and there can be a ton of reasons why that's needed.

 

 

My question is, how do we grow from this? I came out of my shutdown feeling really good about myself and what I had to offer. I thought I could take what I learned and no longer have a need to protect myself, but boy was I wrong. I'm wondering, maybe we just invest too much of ourselves. I don't like to think like that because we are who we are. Maybe people that are prone to shutting down tend to let things go for too long, build up resentments, or whatever, and maybe it builds up so much it becomes too much to deal with at one time?

 

 

I for one did have issues with my wife here and there like anyone, sometimes I would bring them up and she wouldn't really help matters, she herself would shutdown on me and it left me feeling lonely. My thought was though, I trust her completely, I know she loves me, everything is normally great, so maybe I just need to deal with this issue for a day and forget about it. Me personally, I have a hard time translating what's in my head and it can be taken wrong.

 

 

My wife mentioned me being controlling, and she might have been partially right a few times, but to me, I'm just putting issues out there to be discussed and resolved somehow. My intention or what's in my head is not about forcing anything. When there is an issue, I think it becomes too easy to label someone controlling just because it seems they don't want you to do something that you don't care to listen about. Speaking only to my personal situation, I know there's real controlling people with only their self interests at heart. I know what I ask, complain about and what's in my heart, I'm very conscience that I want my wife to be herself and happy, but I also know there has to be a balance, maybe a compromise or just time to get over something if we hit a wall. In the end, I'm happy if she just understands where I'm coming from and makes an effort. The only time it may turn into something more is when the opposite sex is involved.

 

 

One example, my wife had a co worker, she was his boss and he was married. Well, my wife became really close to him and a couple others in her office and I was fine with it. My one issue, and it won't be popular, was I came into the office to visit her. She was at her desk as normal and we were talking. Then I noticed, I could see clearly down her shirt to her stomach. I made the comment, no wonder so and so likes talking to you. Sounds insulting, but she knows I didn't mean it as such and she just adjusted her top. I just nicely asked, can you be more careful of the tops you wear or how things get exposed. I know that will sound controlling, but I think I had a legitimate argument as she is in a professional office that deals with the public. That was all that was ever said by me though, I never monitored it again or worried about, I figured I trust her, she knows to be somewhat conscience of it, and whatever.

Fast forward to my issue with her today and working a 2nd job at a construction site, that issue was discussed again. It was a new environment with nothing but construction guys and now it had become an issue. I really didn't like the low cut, loose fitting tops because she never was conscience of it. She would bend over and not hold her top as I've seen so many other woman do. In the past, I truly didn't like it, but I let the issue drop after we discussed it for all of a couple minutes. It wasn't something on my mind until I noticed how loose those tops were and where she was going. I made a much bigger deal about it, but dropped it in the end because it wasn't worth it.

So anyways, I always try talking to my wife about certain things she may find boring or have her watch something with me that may seem boring but if you give it half a chance, it's really interesting. At times I watch the history channel, and know it sucks for most girls, so whatever. One time though, she had interest in the Da Vinci Code and they aired something, but she wouldn't watch it still. I bought her the Da Vinci Code book as she was wanting it, but then she never read it. I never read books then but I ended up reading it and I'm like you gotta read this book, it's actually good. She never did.

Then one day she comes home from work and starts talking about all the things in the Da Vinci Code and how that coworker was saying all kinds of interesting things. Seriously, I was hurt. I told her I had been trying to go over this stuff but she wouldn't listen and now I don't want to hear about it.

The issue at hand wasn't all that big of a deal, but the underlying issue that she could be so interested when someone else wants to talk about the same thing she ignored me on, was a major issue. Right then I identified that it's like she lives two separate lives. I mentioned before, that once it hit 10 at night, she's done and laying on the sofa no matter what plans I have. Yet, if the girls from the PTA called, she would be out until 3am working on things for a school event. Which in itself is fine, but anytime I wanted to do anything, she was too tired. It seemed to always go that way, she wouldn't have time for me, but she did for her friends or co workers.

That coworker of hers quit and moved out of state. She found out he was coming to visit on the 4th of July last year.Well, she knows I always try to get our family, 3 kids, to go do something, especially with vacation or free time away from sports. Instead, she got together with another girl at work and visited him, his wife and kids. Ditched our family.

It doesn't paint a good picture of her, but that's the other life she lived. May not sound like it but we really did have a great marriage, and those issues were minor though a couple of the under lying ones were major.

She didn't understand that giving herself away too much to friends affects our family and marriage negatively. In the end, while it seems controlling to worry about friends, it was a real issue that hurt our family, not just me. I tried explaining what boundaries were and gave her some links to read recently, little late but it's not over yet.

 

Sometimes being shutdown is a way to protect others around you as well. I think my shutdown was about both and depression. That's why I was down and out for 3 years, it was a compounding issue. It took a good while to figure out, while dealing with emotions that I didn't understand and feelings that weren't mine. If she tried to ask what was going on, which usually was followed by how hurt she was, I would yell at her to give me space and quit asking. It was for more than a single reason. I felt she was crashing my safe zone and I had to defend myself, I didn't like the mess in my head and didn't want her to deal with it because it wasn't me at the time, I just didn't have an answer as I didn't even know myself and I resented the loneliness in the past she made me feel and when she said how hurt she was it felt more like she only cared what I was doing to her and not what was going on inside me. At the time, that's the place I was in. As I said, it was not me. So it was all part of my shutdown.

 

 

In my case, I asked for faith and that she take care of herself in the meantime and stop trying to get in my head. She heard what she wanted to though, and took it as worry about yourself because I'm leaving. She couldn't have been more wrong.

I understand though, it was rough on her because she did care so much. What I don't get however, is the possible affair and the not being able to reconcile once I started to explain everything, which came at a time I was still in my fog, and didn't know exactly what happened, only that I was ready to heal and make an amends and start living life together. So, I still wasn't very nice, or I should say, still said stupid things that wasn't really who I was. Even now, I think about it and make realizations about what happened to me and why.

In my head, I didn't cheat or do anything directly to her, so reconciling should have been absolutely desirable having 3 kids and almost 30 years together.

 

 

Sorry I rambled on.

 

 

Things happen slow enough that the disconnect isn't really noticed until it's too late.

 

 

In my case, there may have been a slow disconnect, but it wasn't threatening. My shutdown came all at once for different reasons.

My wife came home for lunch, started talking to me, and it felt as though I was watching myself from the outside. I ignored her, didn't say a word, and at first, she let it go, but after some time, she learned it was too late and I was closed off. As I said, she tried talking to me, but in that state, I just wasn't there to be reached.

I'm not saying there was a right way to try and reach me, but the fact it seemed she made it about herself, made my resentment build up even more.

Of course now looking back, I feel so much disgust at myself. It doesn't matter my excuse, I feel I let my wife and family down. I understand what I went through somewhat, but it doesn't change that feeling and being on the verge of divorce and having my family break apart. Especially now that I feel things were going to become so much better.

 

 

I try explaining now, that what I needed was faith from her. She became fearful that I was having an affair, and while I was not, she had reasons to believe that. Problem is, she focused on the negative instead of the positive signs.

I made friends with a girl at work, as there are girls all over and we talk, no big deal, honestly. I never flirt or anything like that. Well, this girl was in charge of our group and at Christmas, she gave everyone in her group a card and some candy or something. I brought the card home, set it on the table and she yelled at me about leaving it laying around for the kids to read. I was like what are you talking about?

The girl signed it and said: Love so and so. I told her that's just who she is, all the cards said the same thing and I would show her someone elses to prove it. I'm almost sure when my wife gives out stuff herself at work, it says love so and so. Big deal.

Well, knowing how she takes things, I made the mistake of deleting texts. Yes, I deleted it because we were too nice, but that's all it was. I just knew at the time how my wife would take it the wrong way. What I didn't know was how bad deleting texts was, I always trusted my wife and issues of other people was never a real concern. I never even checked her texts even though I knew she had guys from work on there, and before my shutdown and her change, that trust was absolutely positive, even now I see no reason I should have checked them.

Anyways, I was wrong for deleting, but I wasn't doing anything wrong other than that.

In fact, I caught her deleting texts from her boss at the 2nd job and brought it up, she ignored me, and I still believe her. Because I wasn't truly hiding anything in my deletes. Now, I'm not so sure about her.

 

 

Anyways, today, I do question why she didn't put more faith into me and instead of running away with no proof or word of anything, she didn't stay and work on herself like I asked. Three years to be shut down seems long, but it wasn't total. Any time off I had, we cam back together, as long as she didn't bring anything up, and she didn't in those times. We didn't see each other all week anyways. Even while working steady, it wasn't a constant shut down, it came in cycles. My depression did affect me at work and people would ask me all the time about what was wrong. Someone out of the blue just recommended taking vitamin D pills and I was kind of floored she even noticed as she worked a different shift.

The difference between work and home though, was that I didn't feel pressure from people at work, if I said I was fine, they dropped it. At home I felt my wife was drowning me at a time I could barely stay afloat because I didn't know what was going on in me and was protecting myself, Which is why looking up the strength and courage from being emotionally vulnerable, it helped ease me out of my shut down.

Though I helped create some hurt and pain by being shut down, I also at the same time feel betrayed because my wife didn't stand by me. Instead of giving me faith that I was dealing with something, she let fear take hold. After almost 30 years of being together, is a phrase I said a lot in my head, she should have believed in me more.

That too is a lesson I learned though, but A feeling I can't stop thinking however. The lesson is that you yourself have to make the changes, it's ok to be the one to put yourself out there and expect nothing in return. If you love someone, live like it, don't add conditions to it.

 

 

Sorry again, I know I go on.

[GinON]

Thanks for all the details,

It sounds like you took turns being absent and when one gave up, the other tries to save things. You're both on again off again but not at the same time which kinda sounds like you can't meet each others needs and are only married to the idea of a being married. To me you sound like you are riddled by anxiety of being alone. It sounds like you have been sharing a house with someone for 6 years and are hanging on to something you wish you could have but haven't lost anything real.

 

Thanks for the specific examples, I have a reaction to the controlling one:

You might not see the controlling behavior as an issue but it was enough of one to make her not feel free, which is super important to women. You can say things like, "You look hot in that outfit, your co workers are lucky to see you wear that all day, maybe I can help you out of when you get home!" with a big smile...That way you compliment her, let her know whats happening at work and make her feel good, while giving her the freedom to decide what she does about it. If she asks if its too revealing, you can then say, "That"s really gorgeous on you, and I love that I can see your **** when you bend over, so yes, probably is!"

 

Three years of shutdown and not hearing her cries for help regardless of how you justify it is not a sign of a mentally healthy adult. (it sounds to me like she did this to you as well) It was a form of manipulation, control and avoidance that could be seen as ultimate in passive aggressive. Its good your out of it, but it would be hard to blame anyone for being upset by that.

 

I think I would face the situation as it is, do my best improve everything I could and if she becomes interested again see if things have changed for both parties to where there is a real spark and a place for real attraction. That's gonna require couples therapy and a lot of it after what you have been through.

 

I dont know what you have read, but you might try David Deida's Superior Man book, its a cheesy book at times, but has some great insights on sexual polarity, femininity, and masculinity. You can listen on soundcloud for free although his voice is kinda weird. Lotsa vids on youtube from corey wayne for that 3% man fix, and the Craig Kenneth videos are great for understanding attachment styles and separation anxiety. All worth reading and watching for sure. I also like the book How to Improve your Marraige Without Talking About It.

 

You can become an awesome, happy person on your own! You don't need anyone else! You need that for any relationshio you have next, no matter who its with.

Edited October 16, 2018 by GinON

[Sparta]

OP dude what’s wrong with you.! this can’t be real no way.! You can’t be that naïve did your wife is been cheating on you the whole time of your marriage. Dude there’s no coming back from this. Please get this Monster out of your life. She’s been cheating on you since day one she is a POS.!!! If I were you I would have your kids DNA tested should be no big surprise if they’re not yours.! Buddy I feel for you because you don’t even have a clue how bad your situation is.!

[Arris]

Sparta, I'm struggling enough that you make sense.

Would it surprise me at this point that she's cheated on me in the past?

A couple years ago I would have said not a chance, now I'm not so sure.

In all honesty though, I don't think that's the case.

After my shut down though? If not physical, I'm damn well certain it's been emotional and probably the main reason for the divorce.

The kids are mine, no doubt.

As much as I'm struggling, I am pretty tough inside. I'm choosing to stand here and fight for the kids sake, and because I do love my wife.

If the divorce goes through, and it's looking like it will, I have adapted myself on that front to detach and go for what I deserve. Mainly a good chance to get back on my feet and hopefully some schooling.

After the divorce, my life will be all about making it work on my own, my kids, a career and friends. Whatever my wife has done, or is in the middle of doing will not be any of my concern, so long as it doesn't affect my kids. That is the hardest part.

 

 

Sparta, I absolutely appreciate the support. While I always used to think that cheating would be such a marriage ender, I have to say, thinking about what happens to my kids in breaking up our family dynamics is way more important to me that I would forgive.

[S2B]

Stop blaming yourself!!!

 

You didn't make her cheat! She cheated because she can/and wants to cheat!

 

You really want to stay with a wife like that? I hope not!

[Sparta]

OP please just ask yourself if you’re hanging out with a woman do you wanna just kiss of the emotional no grownups have sex that’s what we do so she’s been having sex with everybody you ever thought about.! you should read your post act like it’s someone else’s post and then you have to give that guy advice and what do you think happened if the lightbulb doesn’t go off then.?! When you finally realize what a real piece of s.hit your wife has been through your whole marriage. I cannot believe that you are that gullible and naïve, I don’t get it.?! Be advised she is your enemy do not think of her ever in a loving way those days are over.? Seriously I really do feel so bad for you... she so far ahead of you.! she’s running circles around you.! Until you realize what you really dealing with you don’t have a chance in hell. God bless buddy

Edited October 18, 2018 by Sparta
Too much to list

[Marc878]

A lot of betrayed spouses in your situation stay in deep denial ignoring the obvious.

 

If you don't acknowledge the obvious you don't have to address it.

 

This mindset won't help you but it seems to have gone so far now it's a moot point.