Giving up on dating is an act of self-preservation

[EthanBlack]

Society, your friends, keep telling you this myth that looks/height don't matter.

 

But time and time again, I've witnessed that it does, whether it's my own experience or me being a 3rd party observer to someone else's experience.

 

There has to be a physical attraction to spark something. I agree there is a wide variety of taste out there. One guy will not be attractive to a girl and another guy will. But there are universal traits of attractiveness that go beyond one's ethnicity, skin color, etc. And if you don't have any of those characteristics such as in my case, you're **** outta luck.

 

You can be successful, accomplished, have the most interesting hobbies and be doing great for yourself but it wouldn't matter. Because you just don't have the right look. And she's not attracted to you. She may respect you and like you a lot but she's not attracted and so it'll never be anything more.

 

I'm not trying to brag but I consider myself a very accomplished person. I'm successful in my career. I'm a ballroom dancer. I play music. I have a full and interesting life. Dating gurus out there keep saying that if you create a good life for yourself, women will follow. But none of that helps with the women I'm attracted to. They always end up dating some guy who is lesser than me but who is taller and more conventionally attractive. And in some cases, they're dating downright losers and they'll justify it by saying, "oh they're so X and Y" when in fact, it's simply because they're drawn to them physically and they have that physical spark of attraction. Not because the guy has such amazing qualities.

 

I've been told by countless people that I have great qualities and that I deserve someone but I never find anyone because every woman I've been interested in is never interested back and instead ends up with some guy who isn't half the person I am but he's usually taller and better looking or has some sort of mysterious GREAT quality that supposedly no other guy has.

 

For me, the thought of even just going out there and "trying again" is enough to send me into a tailspin of depression because all the humiliating episodes of failures just flood back. I've shut down all social media so I don't have to keep being bombarded from someone who has found new love.

 

For me, giving up on dating is an act of self-preservation. I'm much happier when I can just focus on my hobbies/interests without the thought of any sort of dating outcomes.

Edited October 12, 2018 by EthanBlack

[ZA Dater]

Society, your friends, keep telling you this myth that looks/height don't matter.

 

But time and time again, I've witnessed that it does, whether it's my own experience or me being a 3rd party observer to someone else's experience.

 

There has to be a physical attraction to spark something. I agree there is a wide variety of taste out there. One guy will not be attractive to a girl and another guy will. But there are universal traits of attractiveness that go beyond one's ethnicity, skin color, etc. And if you don't have any of those characteristics such as in my case, you're **** outta luck.

 

You can be successful, accomplished, have the most interesting hobbies and be doing great for yourself but it wouldn't matter. Because you just don't have the right look. And she's not attracted to you. She may respect you and like you a lot but she's not attracted and so it'll never be anything more.

 

I'm not trying to brag but I consider myself a very accomplished person. I'm successful in my career. I'm a ballroom dancer. I play music. I have a full and interesting life. Dating gurus out there keep saying that if you create a good life for yourself, women will follow. But none of that helps with the women I'm attracted to. They always end up dating some guy who is lesser than me but who is taller and more conventionally attractive. And in some cases, they're dating downright losers and they'll justify it by saying, "oh they're so X and Y" when in fact, it's simply because they're drawn to them physically and they have that physical spark of attraction. Not because the guy has such amazing qualities.

 

I've been told by countless people that I have great qualities and that I deserve someone but I never find anyone because every woman I've been interested in is never interested back and instead ends up with some guy who isn't half the person I am but he's usually taller and better looking or has some sort of mysterious GREAT quality that supposedly no other guy has.

 

For me, the thought of even just going out there and "trying again" is enough to send me into a tailspin of depression because all the humiliating episodes of failures just flood back. I've shut down all social media so I don't have to keep being bombarded from someone who has found new love.

 

For me, giving up on dating is an act of self-preservation. I'm much happier when I can just focus on my hobbies/interests without the thought of any sort of dating outcomes.

 

 

 

I can relate to most of what you mention and I agree with all of it. Beware though, you will be called bitter for having those views.

 

 

I honestly think past 35 as a guy you are not marketable, someone will be along shortly to say "if you have resources and used your time effectively ladies will find you attractive", that's not true. You can throw as much $ at the issue as you want but then you will be liked for $ only which for me is no different to simply paying for a date.

 

 

More and more I believe there is nothing you can do to improve prospects, people talk about self improvement, actually that doesn't matter, most functioning people are decent enough.

 

 

The problem is if you want A, inevitably A doesn't want you but B does but B doesn't appeal. For me its the same as people who show no ambition, who wants to settle for something they don't want?

 

 

My advice, do things you enjoy and find happiness doing those things because endless dating disappointment doesn't help ones life much.

[EthanBlack]

I can relate to most of what you mention and I agree with all of it. Beware though, you will be called bitter for having those views.

 

 

I honestly think past 35 as a guy you are not marketable, someone will be along shortly to say "if you have resources and used your time effectively ladies will find you attractive", that's not true. You can throw as much $ at the issue as you want but then you will be liked for $ only which for me is no different to simply paying for a date.

 

 

More and more I believe there is nothing you can do to improve prospects, people talk about self improvement, actually that doesn't matter, most functioning people are decent enough.

 

 

The problem is if you want A, inevitably A doesn't want you but B does but B doesn't appeal. For me its the same as people who show no ambition, who wants to settle for something they don't want?

 

 

My advice, do things you enjoy and find happiness doing those things because endless dating disappointment doesn't help ones life much.

 

I agree with everything you said and the sad part is, I can't even get with someone who wants to be with me cause of the financial perks. There have been times in my life where I've been so lonely that I would have been willing to settle for that for image's sake and so I would stop being judged for being a loser bachelor. But most women don't want to be dependent on a guy financially but not attracted to him.

 

I don't want that anymore thank god because I have the money now to devote to my passions. And thank god I have found hobbies/passions to fill my life with.

 

I actually don't find it that shameful now to be single. I find a lot of average looking, ordinary guys settled for the sake of wanting to start a family and not to grow old alone. And they're not attracted to or even that much interested in their wives' and they mainly stick together for the sake of the children and for just companionship because both know they'll have a hard time finding someone else. I'm not that afraid to be alone because I've always been alone and I've been in bad, deteriorating relationships and it's not pretty.

 

I've always been independent because I've had to be and have found ways to move forward in life despite not having a partner.

 

I'm just sick and tired of all the societal messages telling me to "not give up" and to "keep trying" when I've seen time and time and have had enough evidence from real-life interactions that I'm just not appealing to the women I want to date. I've had endless humiliations and disappointments as a result of it and I just don't see the purpose of subjecting myself to this repeated pain.

[outwithpeterpan]

First of all OP, I'm sorry you're struggling so much. You're not alone. I've been there, and a lot of other people have too, so you're in good company.

 

Second, and I don't know how to put this gently.... unless there's a bigger looks gap than you're letting on between you and the women you're trying to impress, there's got to be something off about how you present in person.

 

I dabble in ballroom (specifically hustle!) and I hang out mostly with guys who dance. Non-dancers are mindblown by the most rudimentary partner dancing skills. Of the 6 guys in our dancing group, I'd say 1 is "hot", but none of the others are starved for female attention. Dips (and aerials) have a way of making you look a lot better.

 

Throw that on top of being evidently a smart guy (it comes through in your writing) and having a good career.... as far as "on paper" goes that's all you need to get a girl.

 

Anyone who tells you looks don't matter, point blank, is obviously full of it. Obviously looks matter. I'm a goofy looking dude and my dating pool reflects that. But the world is full of plain to above-average women, to be swept off their feet by average looking charming men. The fact that they do matter, in itself isn't enough for you to have no options.

 

IMO you're not going to find the "answer" you seek on a message board. Needs to come in person. Best of luck!

[EthanBlack]

First of all OP, I'm sorry you're struggling so much. You're not alone. I've been there, and a lot of other people have too, so you're in good company.

 

Second, and I don't know how to put this gently.... unless there's a bigger looks gap than you're letting on between you and the women you're trying to impress, there's got to be something off about how you present in person.

 

I dabble in ballroom (specifically hustle!) and I hang out mostly with guys who dance. Non-dancers are mindblown by the most rudimentary partner dancing skills. Of the 6 guys in our dancing group, I'd say 1 is "hot", but none of the others are starved for female attention. Dips (and aerials) have a way of making you look a lot better.

 

Throw that on top of being evidently a smart guy (it comes through in your writing) and having a good career.... as far as "on paper" goes that's all you need to get a girl.

 

Anyone who tells you looks don't matter, point blank, is obviously full of it. Obviously looks matter. I'm a goofy looking dude and my dating pool reflects that. But the world is full of plain to above-average women, to be swept off their feet by average looking charming men. The fact that they do matter, in itself isn't enough for you to have no options.

 

IMO you're not going to find the "answer" you seek on a message board. Needs to come in person. Best of luck!

 

Yah that's the thing. When you've been disappointed so many times, how does one NOT be bitter? But if you're bitter, people will just think you're even less attractive cause bitterness is unattractive. So it's like a vicious cycle.

 

You have no idea how many times I've come empty-handed and lost out to some guy who is less intelligent, less successful but he's better looking and maybe taller and has a better attitude (again hard to have a good attitude when you're constantly rejected).

 

At some point, one just loses hope.

[JJ15818]

Everybody needs a little rest. If you feel better alone than be alone! Good luck!

[Chilli]

above 35 not marketable as you call it you kidding.

Man l can tell you l'm way above 35 and it's just as sweet as ever out there , very surprised.

But the sweetest of all was between early 30s to mid 40s absolute prime time of life for the ladies from my experience but alas , l was married through all that so l was still a good boy, not complaining just sayin.

[Morello]

I'm sorry but your theory goes down as soon as you go out there and see how many couples are 'unmatched' for looks. And in most of these cases, the woman is more good-looking than the guy.

 

Whether in these cases the woman is interested because of the guy's confidence, money, personality or anything else, I don't know. Could be any, could be none, could be all. But it happens more than you'd like to admit. Also, if you're average looking, and have all the other things 'on paper' you should be having no problem in attracting at least average looking woman. Not that I like this kind of labelling but it seems as that's how you define women, based on their looks.

 

Maybe is that very attitude of yours towards dating that is putting women off. They can smell insecurity and bitterness like you suggested yourself from far.

 

Trust me, the unknown part of this equation that needs addressing lies in you, not in them. Unless there is something really wrong with your appearance, I'd bet that it's your 'vibe' that is what's working against you. You can work on that and improve it.

[Chilli]

ln anything genuine she's interested in the person of course. And she probably loves everything he is even if he might not be the the handsomest guy out there, 90% or males or females , aren't.

As l've pointed out 50 times to people banging on about attractiveness.

l just can't for the life of me figure out what world they must be living in , Hollywood or something.

Once again , just go sit in any shopping center or mall and watch the 100s of couples out there in the real world.

l mean how do you guys miss this , it's all around you , it's life, the real world out there.

tall short fat skinny average not so hot it's everywhere in any combo but only about 10% of most populations are actually really attractive people, the rest , are just people.

[elaine567]

Trouble I see with some of the "stragglers" who find dating difficult is that they usually have bypassed the formative years of dating as teenagers and thus are not actually aware of where they stand in the dating game and thus have never accepted where they personally stand in the dating pecking order. They tend to persist with a high degree of entitlement. I am X, Y and Z, I therefore NEED a woman who is A, B and C. I will not "settle".

 

If at 15 you quickly realised a few girls were out of your league but you had the pick of girls further down the league, then you become more realistic in your choices. You learn it is a waste of time hankering after "10"s, it is more fun and you are more successful when you lower your sights. Who wants to be beaten down again again and again? That is the road to misery and madness.

10s are very rare people but they are not necessarily the "best" people, that is the other lesson most with experience learn very early on too.

 

Seems to me, without this formative learning process, such guys in their 20s, 30s, 40s even, emerge into a world where they think they are entitled to the best, they have no clue which level of women they should be pitching at due to their own value to women, but they have decided it is well above what is actually achievable or even available to them. A catalogue of disasters ensues and it all results in bitterness, anger and frustration towards the world, women and good looking men...

They are often too old, too set in their ways to adapt to "the market", but unless they do, they will always be miserable and alone.

[elaine567]

tall short fat skinny average not so hot it's everywhere in any combo but only about 10% of most populations are actually really attractive people, the rest , are just people.

 

 

I don't actually believe it is even 10%, I believe, it is a lot lower.

[Garcon1986]

I will share my Asian guy frustration. I'm Asian brought up in the UK, and am proud of both of my cultures. I relate a lot more to the British culture because that's what I grew up on.

 

I come to Florida, and now Mississippi, and there are tons of beautiful women around me, except the catch is, none of them want me as a date. They all want the nice military boy with a great physique and the dreamy eyes. The surgeon bro is a great second choice in their eyes. Asian guy, no thanks. I'm a rather nice looking bloke by Asian standards but not by their standards, it just bloody makes them uncomfortable. I actually got kicked out of my favorite Irish dance student club by asking people out. I thought it was a great place to meet women since it's all women, but I made all the wrong moves.

 

In Florida I was able to date the stereotypical amazing Caucasian woman, and it lasted for about 9 months, and ended in emotional tragedy. I found out she would never truly forgive anything regardless of if I apologized, she would gaslight to get her way, she was very hard to reason with, and would keep me up in the middle of the night questioning my love when she full well knew I needed my mental capacities about me for the next day's work. I was able to make it happen, but at a terrible emotional cost. By the end I was so fatigued in the relationship that I started forgetting stuff, not realizing it, and subjected myself to more emotional gaslighting and emotional doormat stuff. You are buying a product that will last you only 10 years or so. Is it really worth it?

 

 

I'm now focusing on the woman who has achieved self actualization, and who is truly happy about herself. I am already seeing results in having more women comfortable being around me. I try to make one additional woman comfortable being around me each week. I have accepted that the classical beautiful Southern lady will likely never be comfortable alone with me. But guess what, I'm not a beautiful classical Southern gentleman, but I outmatch her accomplishments in almost every other way. I have substantive proof that I am a killer whale and she is a wee tilapia on the accomplishments and personal growth scale. God grant me the peace to accept the things I cannot change, and God grant me the strength to effing kick walls down to improve the things I can improve.

[Garcon1986]

If you get locked into the "I must get the hot girl" mindset, that's no different than falling into a black hole. You will get emotionally obliterated if that's your goal. You will always meet a hotter girl than your girlfriend in your life, same goes with girls who meet hotter guys. Will you give up on your GF because somebody else is hotter? Maybe consider starting with two criteria. Physical attraction and simultaneous self actualization/ girl who is really happy about her life and accomplishments.

[Chilli]

I don't actually believe it is even 10%, I believe, it is a lot lower.

 

 

Shyt yeah l agree , more like 2 or 3 or 4 l'd be guessing.

 

But tell ya what l think your probably really onto something in your other post.

l mean they just don't seem to be thinking reality,

l never get it.

[Rotn'roses]

Blame biology if you want something to blame it on, or socialism, or polite society, but I am sure many people feel the way you do. I know I have, before, as well, but my exclusions were based on social class and not so much the physical. I had some of the hottest young men in high school ask me out or like me as a crush, but I was very, very shy despite my apparent attractive physical qualities. I never let anyone know I was autistic and I viewed the world through my own eyes which is an intensely private and closed off view from the rest of the worlds. I saw the inside of people and did not notice their looks until a friend of mine pointed out that I dated a quasimoto looking fellow who was not in our school and a skinny, dorky, surfer who wrote poetry and strummed a guitar to his shrill singing. I didnt care about looks. I saw how happy they were with themselves and it was not based on their looks or outward appearance. Their happiness and laughter was infectuous and appealing. I enjoy a good looking man nowadays but I could ultimately care less what the person looks like on the outside if I am taken in by their inner charm and lightheartedness.

[Mysterio]

I am thinking about going back to on-lin dating and doing it for 3 months. Then cutting if off. I don't need to be on it for 2 yrs. I think I will just pick 7 or so and then let them respond to me.

[sabaton]

I don't actually believe it is even 10%, I believe, it is a lot lower.

 

 

Most people are here are about 5'7'' to 5'10'' for both men and women, and they're mostly for the most part under 160 lbs for the men, while having 10% body fat without working out or caring much about physical activity,

 

they just mind what they eat, and most of the girls are 5'5'' to 5'9'' and are 110lbs to 130lbs at most, with pretty faces, but then again this is Portimão. About 60% of the population of the Country is obese, so I suppose these people are considered to be hot, even if they consider themselves to be average, which when most people look like you, that's what average is lol.

[Mike800]

Trouble I see with some of the "stragglers" who find dating difficult is that they usually have bypassed the formative years of dating as teenagers and thus are not actually aware of where they stand in the dating game and thus have never accepted where they personally stand in the dating pecking order. They tend to persist with a high degree of entitlement. I am X, Y and Z, I therefore NEED a woman who is A, B and C. I will not "settle".

 

If at 15 you quickly realised a few girls were out of your league but you had the pick of girls further down the league, then you become more realistic in your choices. You learn it is a waste of time hankering after "10"s, it is more fun and you are more successful when you lower your sights. Who wants to be beaten down again again and again? That is the road to misery and madness.

10s are very rare people but they are not necessarily the "best" people, that is the other lesson most with experience learn very early on too.

 

Seems to me, without this formative learning process, such guys in their 20s, 30s, 40s even, emerge into a world where they think they are entitled to the best, they have no clue which level of women they should be pitching at due to their own value to women, but they have decided it is well above what is actually achievable or even available to them. A catalogue of disasters ensues and it all results in bitterness, anger and frustration towards the world, women and good looking men...

They are often too old, too set in their ways to adapt to "the market", but unless they do, they will always be miserable and alone.

 

Why do women always assume if a man wants a women he’s attracted to but is struggling he’s going after 10’s? Lol. Average or cute women can be shallow too.

 

Women overrate men’s shallowness..Most men are attracted to a very wide variety of women at first sight..Imo women are attracted to way less men physically then vice versa.

[Mardelis]

For me, giving up on dating is an act of self-preservation. I'm much happier when I can just focus on my hobbies/interests without the thought of any sort of dating outcomes.

 

 

I don't think I could be happy (if I was single) knowing I'd never meet another woman in my life. Giving up because of failure and fear of rejection and depression is not an option for me. Until and unless I could figure out how to give myself a blowjob.

[elaine567]

Why do women always assume if a man wants a women he’s attracted to but is struggling he’s going after 10’s? Lol. Average or cute women can be shallow too.

 

Women overrate men’s shallowness..Most men are attracted to a very wide variety of women at first sight..Imo women are attracted to way less men physically then vice versa.

This was about "some of the stragglers who find dating difficult" not ALL men...

[ZA Dater]

Trouble I see with some of the "stragglers" who find dating difficult is that they usually have bypassed the formative years of dating as teenagers and thus are not actually aware of where they stand in the dating game and thus have never accepted where they personally stand in the dating pecking order. They tend to persist with a high degree of entitlement. I am X, Y and Z, I therefore NEED a woman who is A, B and C. I will not "settle".

 

If at 15 you quickly realised a few girls were out of your league but you had the pick of girls further down the league, then you become more realistic in your choices. You learn it is a waste of time hankering after "10"s, it is more fun and you are more successful when you lower your sights. Who wants to be beaten down again again and again? That is the road to misery and madness.

10s are very rare people but they are not necessarily the "best" people, that is the other lesson most with experience learn very early on too.

 

Seems to me, without this formative learning process, such guys in their 20s, 30s, 40s even, emerge into a world where they think they are entitled to the best, they have no clue which level of women they should be pitching at due to their own value to women, but they have decided it is well above what is actually achievable or even available to them. A catalogue of disasters ensues and it all results in bitterness, anger and frustration towards the world, women and good looking men...

They are often too old, too set in their ways to adapt to "the market", but unless they do, they will always be miserable and alone.

 

 

 

I suppose it was inevitable I would challenge this....

 

 

I agree with the bold to an extent but I don't believe those years give you any idea or any real value either. Believe it or not I had a LOT of interest in high school, yet I ignore it all because I wanted to focus on the bigger picture, being studies because I had certain objectives in mind. Dating value during those years has meant nothing to me, certainly hasn't helped me now.

 

 

Settling is pathetic as far as I am concerned, its like saying I will have an apple instead of an orange because I can afford an apple. What one should be saying is "ok let me try be better so I can get that orange".

 

 

Likewise to me the market is nonsense too. Explain to me why it is one can go an drop $ and suddenly have endless choice if this market is as rigid as you make it out to be? That would be admitting that actually the criteria ladies use is completely superficial, despite men being accused of being so superficial!

 

 

Why must people pitch to what they don want? Have you pitched to people you didn't want, honest question?

 

 

I have zero respect for guys who manipulate ladies, likewise I have zero respect of ladies who see guys as meal tickets because they are too unmotivated to make anything of their lives.

 

 

I can sit at a dinner and command the table intellectually and I suspect the OP can too, yet I have never found this of any use, the loud mouth with the least value to add seems to be the ladies choice of guy.

 

 

Never give up on anything but never allow perceived failure to put you off trying, that's my view. Nobody is lesser or more, some have subjectively more appealing qualities to each of us but fundamentally everyone is the same.

[Mike800]

This was about "some of the stragglers who find dating difficult" not ALL men...

 

Regardless the fact you’re putting people on levels strictly in terms of looks and being a higher value/league then someone else solely on looks is pretty vain and shallow.

 

You act like someone shouldn’t even been in the same airspace and think of trying to get with someone who you deem is more attractive because that person has more value in the dating market.

 

You have a very shallow and robotic view of how people should get together. Sometimes two people just click and *gasp* maybe one person is more attractive then the other. I guess that person didn’t get the memo that their higher or lower the that person because of looks.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Mike800

[Mardelis]

I can sit at a dinner and command the table intellectually

 

 

From what you've written elsewhere, when you speak during a date you get nothing but confused looks and misunderstood comments.

 

 

 

You might be commanding the table but the only one who has a clue what you're trying to say, is you.

[brigit87]

From what you've written elsewhere, when you speak during a date you get nothing but confused looks and misunderstood comments.

 

 

 

You might be commanding the table but the only one who has a clue what you're trying to say, is you.

 

That's kinda mean.

 

He doesn't seem to date well but it seems he has a good job and career. He probably could talk to ppl he works with OK.

 

What is even more sad as I read all this stuff is that online dating and social media have really made a mess at out romantic relationships. Tinder is the most vile thing I've ever heard of: The next generation might go back to old values because this stuff is getting out of hand.

[ZA Dater]

From what you've written elsewhere, when you speak during a date you get nothing but confused looks and misunderstood comments.

 

 

 

You might be commanding the table but the only one who has a clue what you're trying to say, is you.

 

 

 

Well no, not my problem most people are apathetic.