Giving up on dating is an act of self-preservation

[elaine567]

...lets be honest it rarely happens where the great looking extroverted lady ever so much as gives the shy introverted guy the time of day.

Why would she?

Extrovert/introvert couples do exist but it needs a lot of work and compromise to not rub each other up the wrong way.

One is happiest at home having quiet time alone, the other wants to be out and about surrounding themselves with as many people as possible.

One eventually gets fed up of all the socialising they are expected to do, the other gets fed up of attending social events always on their own or with an unwilling partner.

It does not make for happy times usually.

It is a basic compatibility issue and is often one of the first filters.

Are our preferable lifestyles similar?

[Garcon1986]

I am having lackluster success in dating as well, and by my job, I got thrown into the worst possible dating scene for Asian men - Mississippi. I'm not grumbling about it quite as much as you are, even though I have been rejected the same number of times. I accept that women have the right to reject me on the front end, and I have the right to reject them on the back end (I'm the one buying the ring). I'm a grad student and I am firm that I am only staying here for two years unless I find an excellent woman.

 

My philosophy is to constantly create environments where women are comfortable being around me. I am also working out to get as swole as I can be. If I totally fail in dating these two years, at least I will come out with a nice six pack and great arms. My legs are already pretty swole from years of biking. Women here have strong dating biases against Asians so I know I am fighting a very hard battle, but I can always drive across state lines. First rule of dating is to always create an environment where women are comfortable being around you. I know you feel defeated but my bru, there are always more women who haven't met you yet, and those women have an eagle eye for rejecting negativity at 500 yards. They may like you if you approach them with positivity. I'm a well do to grad student finishing up medicine post grad training, living in a nice apartment, my colleagues love me, and the only thing missing in my life is that I'm single without a lady. I'm happy and the women in my professional life really enjoy being around me. I have a specific type that I want, and I am willing to settle with looks, but I'm looking for top notch intellect and deep insights into life as my number one priority. Very few women in Mississippi can fit that bill so I keep on looking as soon as I pass my exam here in a few weeks. Women here literally reject me because I'm not the hot policeman or sexy Marine who is the stereotypical breadwinner. In their eyes I'm just an outsider Asian who just is a bookworm. When a particle physicist gets up on stage and talks to me about quantum entanglement, that gets me really hot and bothered in a really nice way. That's my girl.

 

I hear what you are thinking, loud and clear. It's depressing for anybody to experience.

 

I realize South Africa is a relatively poor country and Capetown is in the middle of a water crisis. I realize you have a certain type of lady that you want. Your situation is something that many guys have felt. I was going through your situation at the beginning of graduate school. I took it upon myself to change my attitude towards life even though I felt as defeated as yourself. You think you are awkward? Get in situations where you can work on public speaking. You think hugs are hard? Get friendgirls where you don't have to worry about rejection. In a tough place for dating? South Africa is a very big place. It doesn't have only one big city. You've experienced either hot girls who aren't available, or girls who are your type who you aren't attracted to? Why don't you join some activities where girls are mostly your type? A real ominous struggle would be Nelson Mandela fighting apartheid, or Churchill having to think about his country being overrun by Nazis. That stuff is a real struggle. The rest of us have it pretty nice despite female rejection.

 

Again I hear you loud and clear, dating life is unfair, the sexy types get easy sex and easy mates. I'm adapting. Is it so hard for you to change your approach to this?

[ZA Dater]

 

I realize South Africa is a relatively poor country and Capetown is in the middle of a water crisis. I realize you have a certain type of lady that you want. Your situation is something that many guys have felt. I was going through your situation at the beginning of graduate school. I took it upon myself to change my attitude towards life even though I felt as defeated as yourself. You think you are awkward? Get in situations where you can work on public speaking. You think hugs are hard? Get friendgirls where you don't have to worry about rejection. In a tough place for dating? South Africa is a very big place. It doesn't have only one big city. You've experienced either hot girls who aren't available, or girls who are your type who you aren't attracted to? Why don't you join some activities where girls are mostly your type? A real ominous struggle would be Nelson Mandela fighting apartheid, or Churchill having to think about his country being overrun by Nazis. That stuff is a real struggle. The rest of us have it pretty nice despite female rejection.

 

Again I hear you loud and clear, dating life is unfair, the sexy types get easy sex and easy mates. I'm adapting. Is it so hard for you to change your approach to this?

 

 

Here is the thing I agree on adapting but I don't agree on settling and lowering ones standard. Thankfully we have more water now, kudos for knowing about the water crisis.

 

 

You illustrated something that lacks in almost ever date I have been on, worldly knowledge, you know about my city miles away and I basically expect dates to have some knowledge. Though fingers will be pointed at me "but the first date is supposed to be fun" well honestly of the person is poorly informed they done become better informed on date 2 or date 20 do they?

 

 

I am great at public speaking when I am speaking to an informed audience and generally I relish any sort of debate or challenge. Do I ever find this on dates, perhaps 1 in 20, then again "the first date is supposed to be fun" again if there is no challenge on dates 1 there wont be on date 10.

 

 

Don't get me wrong I enjoy each day and am very thankful for each day I am given. There is a heck of a lot good about life, lots of positive to see, positive to create but its a bit of a bitter pill to swallow to just go through it on my own all the time. So I latch onto people I can work with, they give me some sort of interaction, some sort of caring to some extent and its really nice. Its my compromise.

 

 

 

I am thankful for many things, some of them even dating related, I have had coffee with some astonishingly beautiful people, personality, looks, intelligence, everything is good about them. They play in a league I cannot play in but once I experienced that, its all I really want, anything else is just underwhelming, that's the problem with me really.

 

 

However I live with an inordinate amount of dating regret, things I could have fixed back then but I cant now, opportunities I should have taken but didn't, I pay for those things most days in some way or other.

 

 

But I have lots to be thankful for and if I have to live dating vicariously though others then so be it. At least then I can create what I want, even if its far removed from reality.

[ZA Dater]

Why would she?

Extrovert/introvert couples do exist but it needs a lot of work and compromise to not rub each other up the wrong way.

One is happiest at home having quiet time alone, the other wants to be out and about surrounding themselves with as many people as possible.

One eventually gets fed up of all the socialising they are expected to do, the other gets fed up of attending social events always on their own or with an unwilling partner.

It does not make for happy times usually.

It is a basic compatibility issue and is often one of the first filters.

Are our preferable lifestyles similar?

 

 

 

Why wouldn't she? You forget some people bring the best out of other, extroverts bring the best out of me because I am forced to actually up my game, forced to show more of who I am versus just being quiet and reserved. I always look for that sort of person or at the very least someone who has supreme confidence.

[JuneL]

OP: Where have you been?

 

You can see in this thread two other guys who have to struggle a lot with dating. One has a positive attitude and is trying to work hard toward finding a partner as much as he can. The other is willowing in self pity; not only that, he would hijack any of such threads, after having started a large number himself.

 

If you were a woman, which of the two would you be attracted to?

[Garcon1986]

ZA Dater it sounds like you are realistic in the sense that you can't jump into Robert De Niro's social circle immediately, but you want to reach for the social circles that are a lot higher than yours at the moment. Why not put lots of effort into finding social events that both meet your standards and elevate your social status?

[elaine567]

Why wouldn't she? You forget some people bring the best out of other, extroverts bring the best out of me because I am forced to actually up my game, forced to show more of who I am versus just being quiet and reserved. I always look for that sort of person or at the very least someone who has supreme confidence.

 

Ok, I get that, but it is not exactly a successful strategy, is it?

Because what does she get out of it, that she couldn't get out of dating a more extrovert guy in the first place?

[Normm]

What I mean is people settle for people they don't find attractive but they don't have any other choice so they just make themselves like the person. Or justify the greatness of the person because they don't have any other option.

 

 

You clearly make this stuff up as you go along. I guess if it helps you sleep better at night then it's all good.

 

 

You can see in this thread two other guys who have to struggle a lot with dating. One has a positive attitude and is trying to work hard toward finding a partner as much as he can. The other is willowing in self pity; not only that, he would hijack any of such threads, after having started a large number himself.

 

If you were a woman, which of the two would you be attracted to?

 

 

Great post right here. Although you left out the part about how he makes stuff up as he goes along.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Normm

[5x5]

It's easy enough to tell. Say, a guy who is short. His match would be usually someone who is shorter than him.

 

My matches are attractive, capable and accomplished women.

 

I'm 5'3" my first wife is 5'6", while my current (2nd) wife is 5'7". The tallest woman I've been with is circa 6'2". All three of those before mentioned very attractive women, expressed their desire and want for me first.

 

I've also been with other taller women and a small number of women who were my height as well. I have never lacked for attractive female suitors. While there have even been some men, that have expressed their desire for me in the past, as well (despite my not batting in that direction).

 

I've always been outgoing, talented, capable, articulate, confident, charming, assertive and self assured. Plus having a pretty face didn't hurt either.

 

Dating, having sex with women and having long term sexual relationships. Has always come easily to me.

 

I was a at a graduation party at a pub once, where a guy I knew and his mates, crashed and burned with the women who were there. While I had a few different women approach me through the evening. Asking me to dance, asking me to talk and asking me to have sex with them.

 

I've also turned down plenty of women as well, because I wasn't attracted to them or was not available at that time.

 

I don't think a lack of height is an impediment to mating success for a man.

 

What is an impediment to mating success for men of any height, is having an inflated and unwarranted sense of entitlement. Having a poor attitude and poor perspective, plus being socially inept as well.

[ZA Dater]

My matches are attractive, capable and accomplished women.

 

I'm 5'3" my first wife is 5'6", while my current (2nd) wife is 5'7". The tallest woman I've been with is circa 6'2". All three of those before mentioned very attractive women, expressed their desire and want for me first.

 

I've also been with other taller women and a small number of women who were my height as well. I have never lacked for attractive female suitors. While there have even been some men, that have expressed their desire for me in the past, as well (despite my not batting in that direction).

 

I've always been outgoing, talented, capable, articulate, confident, charming, assertive and self assured. Plus having a pretty face didn't hurt either.

Dating, having sex with women and having long term sexual relationships. Has always come easily to me.

 

I was a at a graduation party at a pub once, where a guy I knew and his mates, crashed and burned with the women who were there. While I had a few different women approach me through the evening. Asking me to dance, asking me to talk and asking me to have sex with them.

 

I've also turned down plenty of women as well, because I wasn't attracted to them or was not available at that time.

 

I don't think a lack of height is an impediment to mating success for a man.

 

What is an impediment to mating success for men of any height, is having an inflated and unwarranted sense of entitlement. Having a poor attitude and poor perspective, plus being socially inept as well.

 

 

 

Good points and I agree with most of them. I don't think height is that important to be honest, I cant say taller people do better than shorter people and if you are dismissed on height alone I would question why a person would want to go out with such a person.

 

 

Honestly with the attributes you have I am not surprised you have your choice, those are pretty much the attributes of successful dating in my view. Specifically the pretty face. Confident and charming.

 

 

That's the thing though I think some people have personalities which are more complementary of those attributes than others. Not everyone can have those attributes and chances are when you don't them the attributes you do have are the ones mentioned in the last paragraph.

 

 

If I were the OP would just resort to pay dates.

[ZA Dater]

Ok, I get that, but it is not exactly a successful strategy, is it?

Because what does she get out of it, that she couldn't get out of dating a more extrovert guy in the first place?

 

 

 

Probably a guy a heck of a lot less likely to cheat on her and leave when the next best thing arrives.

[brigit87]

I see you're still wallowing and haven't yet made the choice to move in with your life.

 

Dude some of us are born good looking with great bodies, others are born with stumps where our feet should be, others are 6'2 and still others are midgets or dwarfs. Some are born to parents who are rock stars or billionaires and as trust fund babies they travel the world and never work a day in their lives while others risks their lives fleeing the violence in their own countries so they can work almost as slaves in a country where they have freedom. Some live to age 100 while others are stricken with fatal cancer before they reach the age of 12.

 

Do I need to go on? Do you get the point?

 

Stop obsessing what others have that you don't, and work with the cards you're dealt. We don't always get 4 aces. You're probably not the ugliest, least charming guy in the world, there are many who are worse than you but still have girlfriends, what they are doing and you are not is they don't post on forums all day about how unfortunate they are and how crappy everyone in the world happens to be.

 

At this point I'm massively curious as to what ZA looks like. He sounds a bit short but kind of cute.

[elaine567]

Probably a guy a heck of a lot less likely to cheat on her and leave when the next best thing arrives.

 

She doesn't know that, introversion does not equal faithfulness.

If you go on the OW/OM forum, the MM is often described as shy and introverted, it doesn't stop them cheating on their wives though...

[sabaton]

Not at all but what has been advocated here are levels and leagues/standards what if you don't find any of those supposed people in those supposed leagues attractive?

 

 

How can a man not find women attractive? That the women have to be part of a certain league, that is above the one the man is on is folly. How do you think there would 7 billion people in the world, if most men were only to be interested in women who are not only leagues above his own- but several leagues?

 

 

Have you ever been near 18-25 year old men? They find a myriad of different women to be hot. Short women, tall women, skinny women, fit women, overweight women. White, African, Middle-Eastern. It doesn't matter, man.

 

 

 

They have the testosterone levels that causes them to find many, most women attractive. Someone who wants to have sex, someone who is sexually frustrated but claims that he needs a girl to be a 7 or an 8 when he's only a 5 or under that is only doing a disservice to himself. He's sexually frustrated because he wants to be. High expectations, unrealistic standards, low sex drive.

 

 

For example, Kim Kardashian is my ideal type of woman (NSFW) https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/08/17/16/4F2A956E00000578-0-image-a-149_1534520556451.jpg

 

 

But you honestly believe I'm going to reject a cute girl who is so skinny I can see her ribcage pratically? of course not. Because I want sex. And I don't need a woman to be so attractive that she makes billions(Kim) of euros off her body and face for me to want to have sex with her.

 

 

What some here seem to be saying is "oh well tough you must just like them even if you don't because you wont get better".

 

 

You don't realize how good young men have it these days. There used to be a time when for every one girl there were 50 + men and more, with most ending up empty handed and nothing. Check out the existence of the human species.

 

 

 

There were far more men being born, and the top dogs of the tribe got most of the girls with the rest having to fight tooth and nail to get anything, but these days there are so many women and you were lucky enough to not be born in Muslim Asia or in the Middle-East, which means you don't have to make a certain amount of money and to belong to a certain family with family connections, for you to meet girls.

 

 

And never mind that casual sex is unheard of in those places, or sex outside of marriage. I'm sure it happens, but if you are caught you're liable to getting honour killed.

 

 

The point I am trying to make is to me that makes no sense at all. People can wax lyrical about "oh you must give people a chance, perhaps they have other qualities" why should one do this? Does this go both ways? In my opinion it does not which is why most guys who struggle just give up, I am sure every guy who has battled has gone out with at least one person he didn't find attractive yet he hoped they might be in person, YET guys need to give ladies a chance to shine but ladies can dismiss guys in 5 minutes?

 

 

But why not give a girl a chance???? I dated a girl in college who was lukewarm about me, she even asked her female friends if she should date me. Because I am a cool guy they gave her the green light, and she ended up developing a huge crush on me. Don't throw away the eggs and the basket, man.

 

 

 

 

 

For YEARS I tried to date by the "oh give her a chance" mantra but you know what I never met anyone I liked even after giving them a chance, so frankly now if I don't find them physically attractive I don't really bother at all because when the boot is on the other foot I am never given a chance so why should I give anyone else a chance?

 

 

But how many girls do you talk to? How can you have never ever met a girl you liked after giving them a chance? What was wrong about them that kept you from liking them?

 

 

What are you looking for in a woman, in terms of physical characteristics and looks?

 

 

 

I have seen in people, they get defeated, over and over again, in a county with acute poverty and limited skills, give these people one victory, given them a skill and the turn around in unbelievable. I believe the same to be true of dating, ONE great experience can completely change someone's outlook BUT lets be honest it rarely happens where the great looking extroverted lady ever so much as gives the shy introverted guy the time of day. Rejection, rejection, rejection over time that kills a persons spirit and erodes their self belief not to mention robs them of confidence and yet people here seem to think "oh its ok, do this and that and well accept you cannot get that but perhaps you might like that instead" or " well you need to accept that's the best you can do.

 

 

Most men get rejected lots of time, man. Do you really believe guys out there are getting all of the girls they want, or that girls are falling on their laps? They're not giving up. So why should you?

[sabaton]

Honestly with the attributes you have I am not surprised you have your choice, those are pretty much the attributes of successful dating in my view. Specifically the pretty face. Confident and charming.

 

 

 

 

What does that have to do with anything?? don't you understand that girls all have a different taste in men??? And being ''cute'' doesn't mean a man has an easy life when it comes to dating. At 5'7'' and 132lbs I still have the same body frame that I had when I was running track and Cross Country for my High School back when I was a teenager, people still think I'm a teenager even though I'm almost 30.

 

 

I have the ability to grow a full beard, but with the beard also comes the cops thinking that I'm about to rob the place and when I'm clean-shaved I look just like a kid. Most of the girls that notice my existence are either literally teenagers or in their early 20s so dating ain't easy for me. it's not easy for the vast majority of men and women, but I still keep moving forward.

[Normm]

At this point I'm massively curious as to what ZA looks like.

 

 

Check dating profiles in his area based on his stated age and other characteristics. Look for profiles that are written in the same style as his gazillion posts on this thread. Probably won't be all that difficult to find him.

[ZA Dater]

How can a man not find women attractive? That the women have to be part of a certain league, that is above the one the man is on is folly. How do you think there would 7 billion people in the world, if most men were only to be interested in women who are not only leagues above his own- but several leagues?

 

 

Have you ever been near 18-25 year old men? They find a myriad of different women to be hot. Short women, tall women, skinny women, fit women, overweight women. White, African, Middle-Eastern. It doesn't matter, man.

 

 

 

They have the testosterone levels that causes them to find many, most women attractive. Someone who wants to have sex, someone who is sexually frustrated but claims that he needs a girl to be a 7 or an 8 when he's only a 5 or under that is only doing a disservice to himself. He's sexually frustrated because he wants to be. High expectations, unrealistic standards, low sex drive.

 

 

For example, Kim Kardashian is my ideal type of woman (NSFW) https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/08/17/16/4F2A956E00000578-0-image-a-149_1534520556451.jpg

 

 

But you honestly believe I'm going to reject a cute girl who is so skinny I can see her ribcage pratically? of course not. Because I want sex. And I don't need a woman to be so attractive that she makes billions(Kim) of euros off her body and face for me to want to have sex with her.

 

 

 

 

 

You don't realize how good young men have it these days. There used to be a time when for every one girl there were 50 + men and more, with most ending up empty handed and nothing. Check out the existence of the human species.

 

 

 

There were far more men being born, and the top dogs of the tribe got most of the girls with the rest having to fight tooth and nail to get anything, but these days there are so many women and you were lucky enough to not be born in Muslim Asia or in the Middle-East, which means you don't have to make a certain amount of money and to belong to a certain family with family connections, for you to meet girls.

 

 

And never mind that casual sex is unheard of in those places, or sex outside of marriage. I'm sure it happens, but if you are caught you're liable to getting honour killed.

 

 

 

 

 

But why not give a girl a chance???? I dated a girl in college who was lukewarm about me, she even asked her female friends if she should date me. Because I am a cool guy they gave her the green light, and she ended up developing a huge crush on me. Don't throw away the eggs and the basket, man.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But how many girls do you talk to? How can you have never ever met a girl you liked after giving them a chance? What was wrong about them that kept you from liking them?

 

 

What are you looking for in a woman, in terms of physical characteristics and looks?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most men get rejected lots of time, man. Do you really believe guys out there are getting all of the girls they want, or that girls are falling on their laps? They're not giving up. So why should you?

 

 

 

Here is the thing, looks alone don't impress me they need to backed up by something more than that. I guess my philosophy is different, I'd only want to be with people I liked completely overall.

 

 

You say give people a chance, well as has been said here many times by ladies I might add, they decide within 5 minutes whether they want you, so why even bother if they don't? Likewise I decide within 5 minutes if I like the person or not.

 

 

I don't talk to random girls ever, I simply don't. I just come off awkward when I do because barring work there is nothing relatable I can talk about and even with work its a stretch.

 

 

Why I wasn't into them, there was no challenge whatsoever. I respect the choices people make in life but apathy is not one I am interested in, I respect people are happy knowing less, I prefer to know more and debate that more. Mostly I just never felt any liking towards them at all, barring perhaps a handful but they weren't interested in me at all.

 

 

I believe some guys have it very easy when it comes to dating, there are examples in this very thread of those who extolled their virtues (never use either of those two words on a date, unless you want blank stares) so good for them. It must be nice to have a personality and look people find attractive but realistically we cant al have that. I believe what I have is value, the dating market disagrees and who am I to argue really?

 

 

Casual relationships, those have never come my way and I know why, simply not fun enough, too serious, not light hearted, no charm, too quiet, too shy. Nobody would want that and when I look I certainly don't want those things either. However for better or worse those things are me so when I get a 30 minute coffee date with someone great (its happened perhaps 10 times ever) I simply enjoy that because I know I have lost before I even started.

[ZA Dater]

At this point I'm massively curious as to what ZA looks like. He sounds a bit short but kind of cute.

 

 

 

PM me, I'll find a way to send you a pic if you are that curious. I don't consider myself good looking but I am definitely not obese or short.

 

 

Who knows people might have liked me but I wouldn't know what to look for so any indications are irrelevant.

[Normm]

PM me, I'll find a way to send you a pic if you are that curious.

 

 

Send her a link to your dating profile. Maybe send it to a few people on here. Who knows maybe you'll get some tips on improving it as well as your photos and increase your capture rate.

[brigit87]

PM me, I'll find a way to send you a pic if you are that curious. I don't consider myself good looking but I am definitely not obese or short.

 

 

Who knows people might have liked me but I wouldn't know what to look for so any indications are irrelevant.

 

Out of respect for my husband I don't PM. I keep that function turned off. But even if I did see a picture of you how would I know it wasn't the photoshopped one?

 

From how you describe yourself you sound "cute." Maybe you have horrible skin or some really weird nose IDK. But you sound at least average regarding looks.

[Normm]

From how you describe yourself you sound "cute." Maybe you have horrible skin or some really weird nose IDK. But you sound at least average regarding looks.

 

 

He's described himself as extremely ugly. How do you get "cute" from extremely ugly? I mean some dogs are so ugly that they're considered cute. Bulldogs are one such breed. But we're talking about a person here.

[brigit87]

Send her a link to your dating profile. Maybe send it to a few people on here. Who knows maybe you'll get some tips on improving it as well as your photos and increase your capture rate.

 

Maybe ZA could post a link on here with pictures that aren't fake?

 

Or, at least post his bio and we could help him collectively. If he wants. But some ppl aren't so nice so he would be at risk for getting cyber bullied.

[brigit87]

He's described himself as extremely ugly. How do you get "cute" from extremely ugly? I mean some dogs are so ugly that they're considered cute. Bulldogs are one such breed. But we're talking about a person here.

 

I guess I missed that one. TBH I don't read everything he writes. He said he was slim and blonde and 5'9 that sounds cute.

[Normm]

some ppl aren't so nice so he would be at risk for getting cyber bullied.

 

 

ZA has gotten more constructive feedback and positive advice on here on his thousands of repetitive posts both on his own threads and those he has hijacked to continue wallowing about his personal failures and how he "doesn't care"- from countless well meaning posters- none of which he will ever use.

 

 

This is from one of his posts: "My issue is my face, its pretty ugly, even I don't like looking at it!

 

From here: Post #5: https://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/530889-pay-date-bad-idea

Edited October 29, 2018 by Normm

[preraph]

But he only wants to date someone with a pretty face who is thin, i.e., someone in the top 10 percent of women. Like my old boss used to tell me, "You can want in one hand and **** in the other and see which one fills up first."