Giving up on dating is an act of self-preservation

[Chilli]

In my experience as a former intelligence professional, and a guy who is and has been friends with some politicians (including a minister) and activists. Plus published authors, artists, legal professionals and academics.

 

I've found that plenty of women who are seriously into politics, world affairs, writing, history, debating, exotic places and all that. Are often quite comfortable drinking alcohol. While they have no problem drinking hard, dancing, partying while frequenting pubs and nightclubs especially in their twenties through thirties while not at work.

 

I know this because I have drunk, danced partied and got with such women, when I worked in the media and was in Intelligence. While I was in my twenties and thirties. I also found that such women were often highly sexed, highly professional and ambitious. Yet they liked to blow off steam hard, when not at the coal face of working on critically important things.

 

They also were not shrinking violets and were loathe to talk shop to people who weren't part of their professional world. So when out they wanted to have fun, laugh and get it on, without talking about the very real world they worked in.

 

So you will find plenty of them in pubs and nightclubs. That said starting off wanting to talk about boring world affairs, politics and the like. Is hardly going to enamour them in the first instance, when looking for a sexual relationship.

 

Generally if one wants a chance with women like that, they would do well to lose the wallflower schtick.

 

 

Yeah right , funny after l said that l thought myself too hold on , my sisters for example , they love getting out and cutting loose, so there ya go ZA.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Chilli

[brigit87]

I have a feeling that maybe ZA DATER is more interested in being a self-percieved victim to his genetics, than he is in dating women. If he's 34 and is still a virgin he's really not going to bother himself that much with losing it.

 

He's "Holden Caulfield" at thirty-something. And probably the most talked about character on Loveshack.

[Garcon1986]

If you, old chap, ZA Dater my bru, never think of doing anything socially pleasing for anyone except yourself, how did you get into your current job?

 

How do you respond to all the zillions of people who made the wrong decision in dating and found out their partner was a gold-digger, which is the kind of date you seem to be resigned to getting?

[ZA Dater]

If you, old chap, ZA Dater my bru, never think of doing anything socially pleasing for anyone except yourself, how did you get into your current job?

 

How do you respond to all the zillions of people who made the wrong decision in dating and found out their partner was a gold-digger, which is the kind of date you seem to be resigned to getting?

 

You don't need to be socially pleasing to do a good job, you just need people with common objectives and complementary skills.

 

A decision is never wrong because the outcome may not be good but the experience will always teach something.

[Garcon1986]

And how do you manage to be socially reachable and congenial with your colleagues?

 

 

Why don't these skills apply to women? You aren't awkward with your colleagues, or are you?

[nospam99]

And how do you manage to be socially reachable and congenial with your colleagues?

 

 

Why don't these skills apply to women? You aren't awkward with your colleagues, or are you?

 

Not my topic, but ....

 

There are certain professions that are 'cold-blooded' in ways that are totally non-applicable to dating situations. I am a Project Manager, along with various other similarly objective responsibilities, lots of STEM stuff. I am VERY limited in terms of being 'socially reachable' or 'congenial' with my colleagues, counterparts, vendors, contractors, and stakeholders. I am not 'awkward' with my colleagues. However my 'no BS', 'take no prisoners', 'git 'er done' skills don't apply to my social interactions with women. With women my 'soft skills' are a WHOLE lot 'softer'.

Edited November 1, 2018 by nospam99

[ZA Dater]

And how do you manage to be socially reachable and congenial with your colleagues?

 

 

Why don't these skills apply to women? You aren't awkward with your colleagues, or are you?

 

 

 

Because the job is objective driven. We are all working towards a common goal an yes I can get along with them very well despite our very different backgrounds. However, we don't socialise outside of the office, the only common ground is the work we do, take that away and there isnt a heck of a lot for us to talk about socially.

[ZA Dater]

Not my topic, but ....

 

There are certain professions that are 'cold-blooded' in ways that are totally non-applicable to dating situations. I am a Project Manager, along with various other similarly objective responsibilities, lots of STEM stuff. I am VERY limited in terms of being 'socially reachable' or 'congenial' with my colleagues, counterparts, vendors, contractors, and stakeholders. I am not 'awkward' with my colleagues. However my 'no BS', 'take no prisoners', 'git 'er done' skills don't apply to my social interactions with women. With women my 'soft skills' are a WHOLE lot 'softer'.

 

 

 

Exactly that.

 

 

Probably the best environment for me to try date in would be the work environment because I comfortable and confident there. Unfortunately there is nobody I would even consider dating, even if there were anyone single which there isn't.

 

 

I actually believe a work dating relationship could work really well for me because I would on the same page most of the time with similarly aligned goals, of course the downside is if anything had to go wrong...the results would destroy any work harmony. High stakes gamble.

[Garcon1986]

In what social situation are you the most natural and in your element?

 

And what was the result of interacting with ladies there?

 

Next, why can’t you meetup with ladies in the same profession as you but a different company? Or, date some physicist/ accountant type?

[preraph]

If you don't drink, you should put in your profile, if you don't already, that you don't drink. You could put, I don't drink, never have. I have a close friend who doesn't drink because one of her family members was a mean jerk who drank and she had to pick up the slack in the family on account of it. But yes, it certainly limits because every single thing you don't do or you must have limits you, but it's still better to just put it there because someone like my friend might see it and say, Finally, a guy who doesn't drink.

[ZA Dater]

In what social situation are you the most natural and in your element?

 

And what was the result of interacting with ladies there?

 

Next, why can’t you meetup with ladies in the same profession as you but a different company? Or, date some physicist/ accountant type?

 

 

Arranging events and my car hobby. Often the one goes with the other and there aren't any single ladies at these events.

 

 

I actually did try he same profession idea a few times but it never really works, funnily enough I find I get on better with people who are creative in some way, marketing and the like.

 

 

All I really need is someone prepared to humour me, I am not the sort of guy people like at first but over time those I am close to now did grow to like me, this is the VERY worst quality for dating because there infamous 5 minute rule applies.

 

 

Conversely the reason I often went on dinner dates was to try and spend the maximum time with the person to see if I liked them or not, coffee dates don't work so well for this I found.

[Chilli]

Yeah l've wondered why the non drinking would really matter too, apart from a shot or two before you go in just to loosen you up a bit being handy.

Known a few people that don't drink there must be plenty out there.

And yeah date site stuff , just write it on your page,

lt might slow the action down but at least when you did meet someone it's not an issue and you'll probably be like minded in other ways too.

[Garcon1986]

And mijn Zuid-Afrikaanse broer,

 

how many women do you know thoroughly enjoy cars? You have your heart set on never doing any other new hobbies that women may be able to bond with you on? You don't believe any dating coach in your country can teach you to be more fluid and more social around women?

[brigit87]

And mijn Zuid-Afrikaanse broer,

 

how many women do you know thoroughly enjoy cars?

 

Exactly. My husband is into cars and my eyes glaze over when he talks about them.

[Normm]

Yeah l've wondered why the non drinking would really matter too

 

Not drinking alcohol does not disqualify a person from dating. I rarely drink, it doesn't really do anything for me and it's counterproductive to the gains I make at the gym- there's a lot of calories in most alcoholic beverages. Also I like to be in control and have a clear head. That much being said, my nondrinking has never limited me in any way. Sure there might be a handful of women who make alcohol some sort of "requirement" but they're few and far between and honestly I'd avoid such women anyway- they're probably alcoholics.

 

It's just another excuse as to why ZA Wallower doesn't get dates.

 

Nothing more.

[preraph]

I love cars. So does my sister. But I think it's probable that it's because we're old and from a car generation. There were lots of cars to like back then and all the interiors weren't gray....

[ZA Dater]

And mijn Zuid-Afrikaanse broer,

 

how many women do you know thoroughly enjoy cars? You have your heart set on never doing any other new hobbies that women may be able to bond with you on? You don't believe any dating coach in your country can teach you to be more fluid and more social around women?

 

 

 

None, actually though I do every few years or so come across one who does but they aren't single.

 

 

Well I suppose the answer is why? Cant recall my friends doing things they didn't like in order to get people to bond with them?

 

 

I believe dating coaches are the equivalent of snake oil sales people. Why simply because its a load of theoretical BS. Its a lovely profession I am sure, dispensing theoretical advice one can read on a multitude of platforms and charging for it. Me, I'd actually want to see the dating CV of said dating coach...

 

 

For years I have tried to work out what binds people together and mostly it seems to be some sort of common interest BUT many times the people apparently have nothing in common at all so I cant really work that out.

 

 

I just don't think I connect with people on any level whatsoever apart from perhaps work on some of my hobbies but they aren't exactly hobbies where I am going to meet single people. Despite my best attempts I think I still come across as very awkward most of the time but when I do things I enjoy doing I feel less awkward and less of a misfit and less lonely.

 

 

I do think Elaine is right about not experiencing things earlier on in life, its a big impediment and seems to be the one common thing almost all guys who struggle share. When I think back I never really was able to make girl "friends" when I was growing up and that hasn't helped either.

 

 

Few know how I struggle with dating, I sort of put that aside and somehow present a different face day to day, years ago they used to ask now they don't anymore my standard excuse of "I am focussed on work" seems to do the trick at preventing further questions.

[Chilli]

None, actually though I do every few years or so come across one who does but they aren't single.

 

 

Well I suppose the answer is why? Cant recall my friends doing things they didn't like in order to get people to bond with them?

 

 

I believe dating coaches are the equivalent of snake oil sales people. Why simply because its a load of theoretical BS. Its a lovely profession I am sure, dispensing theoretical advice one can read on a multitude of platforms and charging for it. Me, I'd actually want to see the dating CV of said dating coach...

 

 

For years I have tried to work out what binds people together and mostly it seems to be some sort of common interest BUT many times the people apparently have nothing in common at all so I cant really work that out.

 

 

.......Ya probably don't see it apart from the obvious because you haven't lived it.

l've noticed that before with long term single people .

But when you've lived it can you pick it in seconds and a lot of other things that they won't understand or see.

But it doesn't even have to be hobbies or things in common in that way.

Those things are really just a bonus on the real stuff.

[Garcon1986]

There are times when I wonder, if you ZA Dater, are arguing with us as some sort of badge of honour? Do you enjoy this Loveshack headbutting stuff? On the other hand, do you relate to high functioning Aspies who are trying their hand at dating?

 

You've refused almost every suggestion on this forum, so how about reading suggestions from science? Sociology or Psychology research on dating?

 

Have you tried the bro sabaton's approach, to purchase an escort experience or two, to see what someone really socially skilled could share with you about dating chemistry (even though said escort would be a really good actor)?

[thefooloftheyear]

When women like you,. they don't care about your hobbies...If you really want to bore a woman, talk about finance, the NFL, or construction.......At least with cars, you have a half a chance of getting an odd woman that actually likes to talk cars..

 

Point is, women like guys for who they are...Their looks, their personality, their physique, etc....the way they carry themselves....I don't think any woman I have ever been with cared a shyt about what I liked as hobbies..>They respected it, yeah, you get the occasional , but it was never a deal breaker...

 

TFY

[EthanBlack]

When women like you,. they don't care about your hobbies...If you really want to bore a woman, talk about finance, the NFL, or construction.......At least with cars, you have a half a chance of getting an odd woman that actually likes to talk cars..

 

Point is, women like guys for who they are...Their looks, their personality, their physique, etc....the way they carry themselves....I don't think any woman I have ever been with cared a shyt about what I liked as hobbies..>They respected it, yeah, you get the occasional , but it was never a deal breaker...

 

TFY

 

That's not entirely true. Yeah women like a guy not for his accomplishments or hobbies but these things provide a context for which a potential relationship could happen.

 

Even couples who have no hobbies in common probably met in some sort of context, whether it was workplace, social or volunteering.

 

Yeah you do get the guys who don't have to do anything except use a dating app and he gets dates and girlfriends but that's because he's genetically blessed and just happens to have the kinda looks that has a wider appeal.

 

But for most guys who are just average looking, you need to DO something with your life. Whether that's focusing on your career/education, developing interests, exercise, travel, whatever floats your boat.

 

The hobby/interest itself doesn't get a woman to like you but it makes you into a more confident/interesting person and it gets you out into the world and out into society and being part of a wider community of REAL people. Most women don't like loner guys who just sit and play video games and surfs the internet.

 

Despite what people think, relationships that occurred out of dating apps are still in the minority. Most people, most of whom are average looking, get dates and relationships by going out into the world and doing stuff with their lives. It's the only way actually if you're average looking. And there are plenty of average looking couples out there who are in relationships and they probably didn't meet through a dating app.

 

Edit:

 

I don't know you personally and what you're doing with your life but I've heard from a lot of guys who have the kind of attitude that you have. It's more like an excuse for laziness or fear out of going out into the world and doing something with your life. You'd rather just sit at home and complain about how some taller and more attractive guy doesn't have to do anything except go on tinder and gets plenty of girlfriends that way. That's not how it works for most guys. These guys you see who are having success in online dating are a small %.

Edited November 3, 2018 by EthanBlack

[Mardelis]

Despite what people think, relationships that occurred out of dating apps are still in the minority. Most people, most of whom are average looking, get dates and relationships by going out into the world and doing stuff with their lives.

 

 

How do you know that?

[preraph]

I think what Ethan may have been saying in the last post, at least in part, is true, that you need to be doing some things. And that's because for someone to be interested in you, you have to be interesting. People like passionate people, so if you're passionate about a couple different things and at least one is something a person can share with you, that's ideal. Now, passionate about cars, I can understand that. My dad loved cars and liked buying wrecked ones and fixing them, but that seemed to be his only interest besides ice cream and sex, and so he did sound like a broken record at times, complaining about getting a part or how some guy didn't show up to help, plus having cars all over the place making the acreage junky. My mother was well fed up with it, because he was that singular. Now, he had a full-time job in a different field, but when he was home, he was in the garage or inside griping about what was going on in the garage.

 

So people need to diversify a little and develop interests in things they can do with other people. I would say to the car nuts, however, that there is a big world of them out there, and there's organized car shows and auctions that are big social events that you can get involved in. If I were a male car nut, I'd go to all those events and see if there were some single ladies and I'd get myself a car to put in the show so any single ladies had an excuse to come talk to me where I was set up.

[EthanBlack]

How do you know that?

 

I'm talking about most successful relationship that lead to marriage or any kind of long-term commitment are ones that met organically.

 

I'm not talking about generic dating.

 

I think what Ethan may have been saying in the last post, at least in part, is true, that you need to be doing some things. And that's because for someone to be interested in you, you have to be interesting. People like passionate people, so if you're passionate about a couple different things and at least one is something a person can share with you, that's ideal. Now, passionate about cars, I can understand that. My dad loved cars and liked buying wrecked ones and fixing them, but that seemed to be his only interest besides ice cream and sex, and so he did sound like a broken record at times, complaining about getting a part or how some guy didn't show up to help, plus having cars all over the place making the acreage junky. My mother was well fed up with it, because he was that singular. Now, he had a full-time job in a different field, but when he was home, he was in the garage or inside griping about what was going on in the garage.

 

So people need to diversify a little and develop interests in things they can do with other people. I would say to the car nuts, however, that there is a big world of them out there, and there's organized car shows and auctions that are big social events that you can get involved in. If I were a male car nut, I'd go to all those events and see if there were some single ladies and I'd get myself a car to put in the show so any single ladies had an excuse to come talk to me where I was set up.

 

Yah exactly. No matter how interesting the hobby, it's gonna get old if that's all he/she talks about and obsesses about. The great thing is that you're out there doing something productive with your time, you're probably interacting with like-minded people, and it gives you something to talk about with other people including prospective dates other than work. Most of us unfortunately don't have the most interesting jobs. I guess some people do but most of us don't so if all you have to talk about with people is your work, then that gets old fast.

 

Also, when you're busy with other stuff in your life, time passes more quickly and sometimes good things just happen while you're busy with other things. I'm not saying some girl is just not gonna pop into your life unexpectedly but other good things might happen. That's my experience at least. When I'm ruminating about stuff I can't fix, it tends to make the problem even worse.

[elaine567]

Some women like their man to have loads of outside interests, some women do not, as a guy with loads of outside interests will not have a lot of time left for her and that can cause conflict and upset.

Some are well aware of the obsession some men can develop as regards hobbies, sports, collecting... etc. and so want nothing to do with them, and will avoid such men.

So whilst some will be impressed by the passionate pursuance of a hobby/interest/pastime, others will be turned right off...