Giving up on dating is an act of self-preservation

[Mardelis]

I'm talking about most successful relationship that lead to marriage or any kind of long-term commitment are ones that met organically.

 

 

How do you know that most long term committed relationships are not from online dating? I've read otherwise, and I met my girlfriend of 8 years on OK Cupid.

[JuneL]

I'm talking about most successful relationship that lead to marriage or any kind of long-term commitment are ones that met organically.

 

I'm not talking about generic dating.

 

 

 

Yah exactly. No matter how interesting the hobby, it's gonna get old if that's all he/she talks about and obsesses about. The great thing is that you're out there doing something productive with your time, you're probably interacting with like-minded people, and it gives you something to talk about with other people including prospective dates other than work. Most of us unfortunately don't have the most interesting jobs. I guess some people do but most of us don't so if all you have to talk about with people is your work, then that gets old fast.

 

Also, when you're busy with other stuff in your life, time passes more quickly and sometimes good things just happen while you're busy with other things. I'm not saying some girl is just not gonna pop into your life unexpectedly but other good things might happen. That's my experience at least. When I'm ruminating about stuff I can't fix, it tends to make the problem even worse.

 

I am genuinely puzzled by this post. I thought you’re the one who has been ruminating about your dating failures. TFY simply pointed out that you don’t need to change your hobbies for the sake of dating; you just pursue the hobbies you have the passion for. Indeed I wouldn’t be as attracted to my past and current boyfriends if they didn’t have some of the guys hobbies.

 

I also know many Asian families want their kids to pursue a practical career; going for their true passion is an alien concept to many of them.

[JuneL]

Did you not just state that you get along with people in marketing (you even called them creative). A dating coach is nothing more than someone who helps you market yourself to your potential dates.

 

None, actually though I do every few years or so come across one who does but they aren't single.

 

 

Well I suppose the answer is why? Cant recall my friends doing things they didn't like in order to get people to bond with them?

 

 

I believe dating coaches are the equivalent of snake oil sales people. Why simply because its a load of theoretical BS. Its a lovely profession I am sure, dispensing theoretical advice one can read on a multitude of platforms and charging for it. Me, I'd actually want to see the dating CV of said dating coach...

 

 

For years I have tried to work out what binds people together and mostly it seems to be some sort of common interest BUT many times the people apparently have nothing in common at all so I cant really work that out.

 

 

I just don't think I connect with people on any level whatsoever apart from perhaps work on some of my hobbies but they aren't exactly hobbies where I am going to meet single people. Despite my best attempts I think I still come across as very awkward most of the time but when I do things I enjoy doing I feel less awkward and less of a misfit and less lonely.

 

 

I do think Elaine is right about not experiencing things earlier on in life, its a big impediment and seems to be the one common thing almost all guys who struggle share. When I think back I never really was able to make girl "friends" when I was growing up and that hasn't helped either.

 

 

Few know how I struggle with dating, I sort of put that aside and somehow present a different face day to day, years ago they used to ask now they don't anymore my standard excuse of "I am focussed on work" seems to do the trick at preventing further questions.

[EthanBlack]

 

I also know many Asian families want their kids to pursue a practical career; going for their true passion is an alien concept to many of them.

 

I'm also baffled by your post, not to mention your ignorance on Asian families.

 

Hobbies are hobbies. Career is your career. Yes Asian parents tend to frown upon mixing the two. But they aren't against you pursuing your hobbies/interests. In fact, they're super supportive. Asian parents are known to invest a lot of money in sending their kids to learn the arts like playing an instrument, dance, learning new languages, or any assortment of extracurricular activities.

 

And if your hobby happens to also be your passion, then they aren't against it either. How do you explain people like Michelle Kwan, Patrick Chan, Paul Kariya, and other Asian athletes? I wouldn't say figure skating or dance or anything of sort is practical yet there exists Asian athletes.

 

I frankly find your generalization ignorant.

 

As for TFY's post, he said women don't care about a man's hobbies. Only his looks, personality and his demeanor matters. I was disagreeing with that.

 

Yes, looks matter. Personality matters. How well you vibe together matters. But you a lot of your "personality" and your general "vibe" is an extension of what you're doing with your life. A guy who just goes to work and then goes home to play video games isn't gonna have the kinda personality that is gonna vibe well with a woman. I'm not against guys playing video games. I'm just using it as an example.

 

When your horizons and life experience is limited, then so is your personality and your confidence.

 

I personally know this guy who has pretty much no career but he's this world traveller. He's able to backpack all over the place in foreign countries on a shoestring budget and experiencing adventures. He's extremely strong, both mentally and physically and is street smart and knows how to overcome challenges. He's got a beautiful girlfriend who is also kinda supporting him financially (or at least letting him live with her). They go on vacations together where she pays for most of it but they have a lot of fun and have a lot of adventures together cause he knows how to pretty much go anywhere and get anywhere and is super street smart and he speaks like 4 languages.

 

A lot of people say she can do better and find a more responsible guy. But wtf, they're probably boring whereas this guy is interesting cause he's well-travelled, has lots to talk about and has loads of confidence.

 

Yeah you could say maybe that's his natural personality but then it's a chicken or egg first situation. Is it because he's confident/interesting that he went travelling in the first place? Or did all that travel/adventure help make him confident/interesting?

[EthanBlack]

Some women like their man to have loads of outside interests, some women do not, as a guy with loads of outside interests will not have a lot of time left for her and that can cause conflict and upset.

Some are well aware of the obsession some men can develop as regards hobbies, sports, collecting... etc. and so want nothing to do with them, and will avoid such men.

So whilst some will be impressed by the passionate pursuance of a hobby/interest/pastime, others will be turned right off...

 

Anything obsessive or taken to the extreme is unattractive. Everything in moderation.

 

But I have yet to meet any women who think a guy who has NO hobbies/interests is cool or attractive. He has to enjoy something. It's understandable if he's currently in a stressful situation in his life like maybe he's finishing school and trying to get his career started or somethign else. But generally, a guy needs to do something other than just go to work. Otherwise, he's gonna be in your face the whole ****ing day everyday. A lot of girls get sick of that real fast.

[ZA Dater]

Well it seems to me based on these last posts its quite apparent as always that ladies have the choice and men do not, well at least struggling men don't, if you are some model sure you might then have a better choice but the average athletic guy simply has to

 

 

1: Approach and look like a fool

2: Get rejected because she isn't single

 

 

My question to those experts here....how many times have you been approached and how many times did you reject guys out of hand? To the guys what are your ratio of approached to success? 1 in 5, 1 in 10 or worse?

 

 

Yesterday I took this forums advice and went out and smiled and tried to catch the eye of ladies I thought were attractive, this did not work with one. NOT ONE. And this is a very busy public place.

 

 

As for interests, I'd wager these are irrelevant, just so long as you fit in with her interests and her friends, that's all that seems to matter.

 

 

Bottom line

 

 

1: No experience= no date

2: Different from the rest= no date

3: Non conformist= no date

4: Dare have an opinion contrary to the sheep= no date

 

 

The answer seems clear, you want to date, the conform with everyone else and become a sheep.

[ZA Dater]

Anything obsessive or taken to the extreme is unattractive. Everything in moderation.

 

But I have yet to meet any women who think a guy who has NO hobbies/interests is cool or attractive. He has to enjoy something. It's understandable if he's currently in a stressful situation in his life like maybe he's finishing school and trying to get his career started or somethign else. But generally, a guy needs to do something other than just go to work. Otherwise, he's gonna be in your face the whole ****ing day everyday. A lot of girls get sick of that real fast.

 

 

 

Yes usually he needs to have something which will advance her interests in some sort of way or make her have some prestige as a result. Something for her to boast about.

[Chilli]

Well it seems to me based on these last posts its quite apparent as always that ladies have the choice and men do not, well at least struggling men don't, if you are some model sure you might then have a better choice but the average athletic guy simply has to

 

 

1: Approach and look like a fool

2: Get rejected because she isn't single

 

 

My question to those experts here....how many times have you been approached and how many times did you reject guys out of hand? To the guys what are your ratio of approached to success? 1 in 5, 1 in 10 or worse?

 

 

Yesterday I took this forums advice and went out and smiled and tried to catch the eye of ladies I thought were attractive, this did not work with one. NOT ONE. And this is a very busy public place.

 

 

As for interests, I'd wager these are irrelevant, just so long as you fit in with her interests and her friends, that's all that seems to matter.

 

 

Bottom line

 

 

1: No experience= no date

2: Different from the rest= no date

3: Non conformist= no date

4: Dare have an opinion contrary to the sheep= no date

 

 

The answer seems clear, you want to date, the conform with everyone else and become a sheep.

 

 

l really dunno where you guys get your ideas from , l'm 3 of those 4,,, loud and clear and proud of it but that's always been an advantage if anything.

And any gf or ex w have been the same.

But eh , if your a black sheep you simply need another black sheep, that's the key and what l've always been attracted too.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Chilli

[brigit87]

Anything obsessive or taken to the extreme is unattractive. Everything in moderation.

 

But I have yet to meet any women who think a guy who has NO hobbies/interests is cool or attractive. He has to enjoy something. It's understandable if he's currently in a stressful situation in his life like maybe he's finishing school and trying to get his career started or somethign else. But generally, a guy needs to do something other than just go to work. Otherwise, he's gonna be in your face the whole ****ing day everyday. A lot of girls get sick of that real fast.

 

It's important to have some interests that you enjoy doing together. Like hiking or watching similar movies. But if a guy is really into stuff that the girl has no interest in then why would she care? Or even better that could be a red flag.

 

If your weekends are spent alone because your husband is doing softball, football or golf you're going to be very lonely.

[thefooloftheyear]

I'm also baffled by your post, not to mention your ignorance on Asian families.

 

Hobbies are hobbies. Career is your career. Yes Asian parents tend to frown upon mixing the two. But they aren't against you pursuing your hobbies/interests. In fact, they're super supportive. Asian parents are known to invest a lot of money in sending their kids to learn the arts like playing an instrument, dance, learning new languages, or any assortment of extracurricular activities.

 

And if your hobby happens to also be your passion, then they aren't against it either. How do you explain people like Michelle Kwan, Patrick Chan, Paul Kariya, and other Asian athletes? I wouldn't say figure skating or dance or anything of sort is practical yet there exists Asian athletes.

 

I frankly find your generalization ignorant.

 

As for TFY's post, he said women don't care about a man's hobbies. Only his looks, personality and his demeanor matters. I was disagreeing with that.

 

?

 

You can disagree all you want, but I am not the one whining about my failures with attracting women...Never in my life have I ever struggled in this area and have never been with any woman who any guy would consider less than an 8.5...

 

I have the oddest hobbies as well...You would think most women would find a guy that kept a variety of what many women would find the most frightening of animals in his house and run as far away as possible...Nope...They may not have shared in my passions, but they respected it, and it had absolutely no bearing on what they thought of me, personally....

 

Your struggles are easy to detect, bud....But keep telling everyone how they are wrong and you deserve what you want...

 

TFY

[EthanBlack]

It's important to have some interests that you enjoy doing together. Like hiking or watching similar movies. But if a guy is really into stuff that the girl has no interest in then why would she care? Or even better that could be a red flag.

 

If your weekends are spent alone because your husband is doing softball, football or golf you're going to be very lonely.

 

Yah I agree with that. But contrast this with a guy who has NO hobbies and does nothing with his time except go to work and come home. If he's happy like that and it doesn't impact his zest for life, then that's fine but most people aren't happy doing that. And girls want a guy who is happy and fun to be around.

[EthanBlack]

You can disagree all you want, but I am not the one whining about my failures with attracting women...Never in my life have I ever struggled in this area and have never been with any woman who any guy would consider less than an 8.5...

 

I have the oddest hobbies as well...You would think most women would find a guy that kept a variety of what many women would find the most frightening of animals in his house and run as far away as possible...Nope...They may not have shared in my passions, but they respected it, and it had absolutely no bearing on what they thought of me, personally....

 

Your struggles are easy to detect, bud....But keep telling everyone how they are wrong and you deserve what you want...

 

TFY

 

So you DO have hobbies. And it doesn't matter if they're strange. It only matters that you enjoy doing them. And I think you underestimate how much o an impact having these things in your life impact your love life.

 

Women don't want a guy who has nothing in his life except her.

[brigit87]

So you DO have hobbies. And it doesn't matter if they're strange. It only matters that you enjoy doing them. And I think you underestimate how much o an impact having these things in your life impact your love life.

 

Women don't want a guy who has nothing in his life except her.

 

I'd be OK with that.

[EthanBlack]

I'd be OK with that.

 

Hmm, I'd be careful stating that. Often these guys who have nothing in their life except his SO tend to be scary. They get clingy and needy and get jealous easily.

 

I know because I used to be one of these guys a long time ago. I scared off every woman I attempted to date. It took me a long time to build myself up and create a life for myself that didn't revolve around the woman of my affections. My relationships with women improved greatly after that.

 

Women want to feel valued by their SO but they don't want to be the sole source of his happiness. That's a lot of pressure to put on a person.

 

Later on, as in like if you've been with a person for over 10 years, it's natural that you are the most important person in each other's life. But that's much later. I guess I'm talking about the first couple years of a relationship.

 

Couples that been together for decades and shared everything together, yah I get it, they're the most important thing in each other's life and their happiness is joined together. That's why often when a spouse dies, the other dies soon after.

[elaine567]

I'd be OK with that.

 

 

I think a lot of women would. Most guy's hobbies bring nothing to her party, if we are being honest, apart from erode time that could be spent together, or time that could be spent doing something more interesting or productive...

[EthanBlack]

I think a lot of women would. Most guy's hobbies bring nothing to her party, if we are being honest, apart from erode time that could be spent together, or time that could be spent doing something more interesting or productive...

 

What if she shares in that hobby? For example, many girls like to dance. A lot of guys go learn to dance for the main motivation to meet more women. So he learns to dance, goes to dance events, starts socializing and dancing with the women there and he hits it off with one of the women. He sees her regularly at these dance events and he works up the courage to ask her out. They start dating and they discover other things about each other. But dance is a starting foundation that they can base their relationship on. Something in common. Something they connect with. Later on, they may discover a new hobby together they enjoy more. Maybe they'll even stop dancing together. Or maybe dance is something they'll continue doing together.

 

This is just an example. I met my last girlfriend via dance. And the girl I'm going on dates with now, she's not a dancer but she's the athletic type and she enjoys going with me to dance events and it's something to do on dates rather than the dinner/movie stuff. She doesn't drink so she doesn't like anything really connected with that. For her, physical activity is her high. She's not gonna be satisfied with just staying at home and eating or going to a bar and having drinks. People are different.

 

I'm not saying having hobbies is some sureproof way of finding someone but it's something to do and it gets you out there to meet people. I'm not in a position to meet women at my workplace because I don't work in an area where there's lots of female colleagues. A lot of guys on this forum seem to have met their SO through workplace but not all guys work in those kinda environments.

 

If you're a guy and you just like to stay home and play video games, I suppose you can go onto video game forums and there's the odd chick or two who may live somewhat near you who you can start pursuing but chances are, she's probably being pursued by 9 other guys at the same time.

[elaine567]

I am a tad confused.

You flood the forum with threads and posts about how you are useless at dating never get dates and how you are giving up... and now you casually mention the girl you are dating and past gfs...

[Chilli]

I think a lot of women would. Most guy's hobbies bring nothing to her party, if we are being honest, apart from erode time that could be spent together, or time that could be spent doing something more interesting or productive...

 

Yeah true , actually l've always found hobbies very hard to juggle because they really need a Saturday or Sunday or a few nights a week whatever. But after awhile between that and other stuff it all really starts robbing your free time together even if just being around the house together and she starts getting pissed, l start feeling guilty and it all starts getting awkward.

[EthanBlack]

I am a tad confused.

You flood the forum with threads and posts about how you are useless at dating never get dates and how you are giving up... and now you casually mention the girl you are dating and past gfs...

 

I am not an INCEL or a MGTOW if that's what people are assuming about me. Cause on the internet world, it's very easy to label people with things like that. There's a huge difference between a normal guy who has trouble dating and interacting with women and a hate-filled mysognist who hates women but desires them at the same time.

 

I'm 35 years old. I've had four major relationships in my life. In between these relationships, I've had dates that didn't develop into a relationship. My last major relationship ended 2 years ago.

 

It was also 2 years ago that I had an "identity crisis." I don't want to get into the details because it's a long story but I basically wasn't happy with who I was and who I was projecting out into the world and I think the failure of my last relationship had A LOT to do with that. I basically had an early 30's crisis and I heard it's actually quite common when guys hit their 30's.

 

I've been slowly working through these issues and I've made a ton of progress. I also have a better idea of who I am but there is still a ton of work to do. I've examined my flaws and also what I'm putting out there into hte world and figuring out why some of my past relationships failed. I'm just a guy who is trying to figure himself out. A lot of my issues stem from childhood and are deep-rooted.

 

That being said, yes I DO have trouble dating. For instance, I don't like doing online dating because I don't get enough replies compared to the messages I have to send out and it just gets tedious.

 

With women I meet in real life, I go on a couple dates and it just fizzles out. Not just on her side but my side too. A large part of it is stems from my personal issues in that I don't really know what I want or who I am and so I have trouble putting my personality out there.

 

My past ex-gfs have all said this, especially my last one. She said I'm a hard guy to get to know despite the fact that we were together for 2 years. She always complained she didn't really know me. I think this is largely because I don't really know myself.

 

Things are getting better though. I have a lot more self-knowledge and higher sense of self now. But a lot of that came through pursuing my passions in life. Which is what I was recommending to people but seems like all of you disagree with me. I think maybe I should NOT have assumed that what works for me should work for everyone else. Maybe a lot of guys are just well-adjusted already and are fine the way they are. In my specific case, I had to do what I had to do to get my issues together and that's the route I chose.

Edited November 4, 2018 by EthanBlack

[EthanBlack]

Yeah true , actually l've always found hobbies very hard to juggle because they really need a Saturday or Sunday or a few nights a week whatever. But after awhile between that and other stuff it all really starts robbing your free time together even if just being around the house together and she starts getting pissed, l start feeling guilty and it all starts getting awkward.

 

My last relationship was like that. She didn't want to do anything except lounge around the house. Maybe it was cause she had a stressful job.

 

As for me, I wanted to go out there and try out and do stuff.

 

Having a SO isn't the end-all and be-all for me. It's not like, great I found someone who I can come home to and who sleeps with me every night and we eat together.

 

There's gotta be something more. Like a shared goal. And maybe that was the issue. I think she wanted to be a domestic housewife type and build a home and have kids. I wasn't ready for that. And actually, I'm still not ready for that.

 

All this stuff I'm spewing out about finding hobbies/passions, it kinda stems from that. I realize now it's not a universal advice for everyone. It's really specific to me.

[Chilli]

l dunno , no offense but she sounds like she wanted it all a bit easy and boring, you can't really know someone in just 2 yrs.

20 years married and your still getting surprises, "hopefully"

Anyway , if you've had 4 major relationships at 35 l dunno what your griping about. You've met women, you've had real relationships, you just haven't met the right one yet.

[elaine567]

I am not an INCEL or a MGTOW if that's what people are assuming about me.

No I did not think you were an INCEL or a MGTOW.

With women I meet in real life, I go on a couple dates and it just fizzles out.

Sounds like your barriers are up and I guess that is because you do not want to get hurt. It may fizzle out on your part as the next step is vulnerability, and if you do not try, you do not fail...

That way you protect yourself from harm.

[EthanBlack]

l dunno , no offense but she sounds like she wanted it all a bit easy and boring, you can't really know someone in just 2 yrs.

20 years married and your still getting surprises, "hopefully"

Anyway , if you've had 4 major relationships at 35 l dunno what your griping about. You've met women, you've had real relationships, you just haven't met the right one yet.

 

Well it's four from over a decade. My first ever relationship with a girl was at the late age of 23. First sex. First kiss. First everything. I never dated before 23 which is late as **** in teh western world. A lot of white guys seem to just to get dates left and right out of tinder or whatever and get girlfriends easily and they change girlfriends once a year. By the time they settle down, they've probably been with 50 women and have had about 11 ex-gfs.

 

I notice also largely it's not about meeting the right "one." A lot of people get together because they have clear goals of what they want in the future and they happen to meet someone who aligns with those goals.

 

For me, and this is my own fault, I've never had clear goals. I never had plans to settle down and build a home and have kids. I still don't although I think I'm getting nearer to it. These are people who are comfortable with themselves and have a clearer idea of who they are.

 

I'm getting closer though into finding what makes me tick and who I really am.

[EthanBlack]

No I did not think you were an INCEL or a MGTOW.

 

Sounds like your barriers are up and I guess that is because you do not want to get hurt. It may fizzle out on your part as the next step is vulnerability, and if you do not try, you do not fail...

That way you protect yourself from harm.

 

The barriers are unintentional. It's more that I don't know who I am or what I want and so it seems like to others that I'm putting up a barrier. But it's unintentional. My last ex complained about that. But I wasn't trying to hide anything from her or trying to protect myself. I was genuinely at a loss with myself. I was indecisive, confused, and just not totally "there."

 

As for the MGTOW and INCEL thing, because of the horrendous nature of the crimes committed in the name of INCEL, it's so easy to label guys as that. It's like the "terrorist" label. We humans like to apply labels and categorize things.

 

Men in particular seem to enjoy applying the incel label to other men who are lonely and struggling with dating. I don't know why. Through my posts, I've been labelled a mgtow and incel by others. If it can happen to me, it means it can happen to a lot of guys as I think my situation is by no means unique. A lot of guys out there struggle with dating, finding romantic connections, etc. But when they express these frustrations online, there's always someone ready to put the apply the label MGTOW or INCEL to them.

[brigit87]

I think a lot of women would. Most guy's hobbies bring nothing to her party, if we are being honest, apart from erode time that could be spent together, or time that could be spent doing something more interesting or productive...

 

Yep. When I was dating guys got massive points for Not being into sports. If it was a hobby I could share in or interested me that would be fine. But guys who were into hanging out with other guys doing guy stuff I stayed away from