Up down push pull unable to compartmentalise

[metamorphasing]

I've been reading these forums for so long.. trying to get insight and understand.. to help define or maybe compartmentalise my situation.

 

Before I am cast down.. yes I think about the BW.. I have also been betrayed.. many times. No I didnt cheat on my xH.. we had an open marriage at the time this started. Yes, I knew MM was indeed married.. I didn't pursue or initiate, but I did accept his initial terms and engaged. Yes I feel guilt at times, but I did not make those vows to her. We are not friends.

 

10 months ago, I opened the marriage to try something to save it (amongst many other things we had tried) When I didn't care my xH slept with other woman, and when he didn't care I slept with a man (MM) I knew it was over. We are now separated and will divorce next year.

 

MM said the usual things from what all the internet tells me.. limited sex life.. love but not in love. Not appreciated. Frustrated he works to support her, but she doesn't help around the house/business etc (not as medieval as it reads)

 

MM knew I was in an open marriage. He was intrigued. He caught my attention months before, when during a work discussion (we are colleagues) he told me mid sentence I was beautiful. I hadn't been told that in years, and I was shocked. But still, as attractive as I found him.. he was to my knowledge at that time, happily married. So maybe a month into my open marriage.. he drops a line when I ask if he is ok.. i night out with me for dinner and drinks will make it better. Ok I say. I am up for that - sounds like fun! A couple of days later.. he actually states it.. him and I NSA.. I should've known based on his constant curiosity about my situation; had I found anyone to 'play' with yet - no...

 

And so it began.. locked down email addresses.. terms and conditions set. Fight club rule 1 & 2. And a week later, we meet in a car park and there you have it.. but it wasn't what either one expected. It blew our minds.. he was immediately hooked.

 

Since, we text most every day.. most days first thing and last thing at night.. meeting initially once a week Sun night.. then twice.. then 2-3 week. Then it felt like feelings crept in from him and I don't know.. this is the bit I don't understand because it deviated from the original T&C.. or has it?? This is when I'd like (empathetic and welcome) advice please..

 

the I miss you's.. the your so beautiful, you take my breath away, your amazing, always the naughtier emails sure.. but then more contact during the day and night.. he went away for work.. he saw me right before he flew out and on the way home from the airport.. I went away for work.. endless messages.. missing me, wanting to lay next to me holding me.. but...

 

back to no intimacy.. only s*xual messages and activity.. no emotion, no sweet messages.. and then we go back again to the emotion, the sweetness.. back forth,

 

he went on vacation.. I know he slept with his BW the first night (found out after he was back). I was beside myself while he was away.. he ended up messaging everyday.. even sending a pic of the pool saying me and him there.. how much he really missed me. we had a night interstate planned the weekend he returned.. our first trip away.. he made his flights earlier.. it was amazing. We had an easy relaxing amazing time.. we still talk about it..

 

I know he still has dates with his wife.. I don't know if this makes him happier at home? He has a very established life.. Im not after that either.. would I want to be with him in another life before all this - of course.. but that hasn't been our reality.. I never instigate that talk. I don't even want to know about what he does or what annoys him about his wife.. it mindf$#ks with me.

 

I asked him once if he felt guilty.. he said no - no hesitation. He is type A personality.. no PDAs kind of man.. very successful but also high EQ (yes, believe it or not) I have struggled when we had a work dinner, and he told me she would be there.. her and I would've been the only two woman, so we would've ended up having to converse. I said I wasn't going.. he tried to talk me into going.. I said it would be too awkward.. he said it wouldn't.. I couldn't believe it! He also invited me to their home for a sunday lunch with a group of colleagues.. I said no, he asked again and I said absolutely not.. this messes with my mind so so much - why would he want us in the same room!?!?!!?

 

Since I have moved, which he helped set up furniture, and bought an expensive coffee machine knowing how much I love coffee.. and visits.. Hasn't stayed over.. can't.. but now calls me.. even calls my on the weekend.. on his way home from work.. grabs me for a coffee at work now throughout the day.. he is always making sure I am ok.. esp with the separation..

 

He has said before.. a couple of times, if he could have another time, he would want it with me.. we never have said I love you but that we both care a lot about each other.. I know he isn't leaving.. he's even said off the cuff I should be treated to a hot date (by someone else) or talked lightly with me about online dating now I am single.. Im not ready for that world yet (not even a FT relationship in any case), but if he knows I am out, even just with girlfriends, he will message most of the night..

 

I know this is his affair.. but I am trying to understand the above..

 

When it was NSA.. no emotion or extra contact.. I understood it.. I knew those rules.. I got it.. I can't reconcile the other stuff outside a pure sexual NSA agreement? Why would he say and do all that, knowing I agreed to the NSA in the first place? He never needed that to lure me in.. never needed that to hook me.. it was never what we were about, or going to be about.. this was a sexual transaction account? But then its all changed.. him, me..

 

I don't know what this is.. is this how EMRs and A evolve? Do they change? Is this when catching feelings and falling in love happens? Doesn't it end if its just s##? If its pure physical then why would he say and do these things? Why would he call? Why does it move in between states from s#$Xtinf to emotional texts, emails, to coffees, to lunches together, to calling on weekends and after work after he's already seen me.. to making sure I am ok.. worrying..

 

Just trying to work through what this is, having never been in this context before..

 

Oh and sorry its long.. its the first time I've blurted all this out!

Edited October 15, 2018 by metamorphasing

[AutumnMoon]

Men love the feeling of falling in love as well. It’s an aspect to any chase mo St give, whether they need to hook you or not, lots do it.

 

It doesn’t mean his feelings are not genuine, but it’s the push and pull that keeps lots of us hooked to, if you were content and sure of anything you would not contstantly have him on your mind.

 

It’s working in his favour.

 

If you meet his wife he might get turned on by the two of you in a room, he may have no concern at all or he thinks if you become friendly it’s covering his tracks even more. She wouldn’t suspect you

[imsosad]

I can see why you're confused.

You are obviously very much in love with him.

It doesn't matter what you decided in the begining, it evolved in to something unexpected.

Some affairs remain very limited, purely sexual and some turn in to emotional involvement and even love.

You seem to be a little bit in awe of him, maybe a bit intimidated? Why don't you ask him everything you've asked yourself and us?

It's a legitimate topic fir discussion.

My guess is, you're hesitant to appear as if you want "more", especially given your initial agreement.

Talk to him.

I think affairs are very confusing because there's a lot of contradicting going on. You say one thing, do another. You want A, but only B is possible, so you deny wanting it. You act like a couple, but you're not. Reality and fantasy mix.

The relationship feels stronger than it appears in the real world one second, and the next you're left wondering if it's even real.

Mental cartwheels, all the time.

Figure out what you want in this A, then ask him where he stands.

Trying to figure him out on your own will waste months and years of your life and lead you nowhere.

[carhill]

Welcome to LS....

 

Since you have an open M, simply find another lover. There's tons of guys out there who enjoy women in and out of bed and they can teach you a lot about compartmentalizing. It practice it boils down to focusing on the moment. That could be a conversation, a shared meal or activity, some sex, whatever. Focus on that to the exclusion of other considerations.

 

If you want to have any interaction with this MM, do that and leave it where it is. Compartmentalizing takes practice. I learned much of what I know from MW's, especially the serial pros who used many men in their M's. It opened up a whole new realm of processing and managing emotions, one I'd had no concept of as a young man.

 

Of course, you don't have to play MM's game. You can easily mate and date single guys within the parameters of your open M. However, you'll need to find the right sort, a single guy who's practiced with compartmentalizing and dating/mating with MW's, including those in open M's. Billions of guys around, there's always bound to be some.

[MidnightBlue1980]

He has said before.. a couple of times, if he could have another time, he would want it with me..

 

This is a classic line by MM. Right up there with my wife doesn't appreciate me, want sex, love me.

 

I don't know what this is.. is this how EMRs and A evolve? Do they change? Is this when catching feelings and falling in love happens? Doesn't it end if its just s##? If its pure physical then why would he say and do these things? Why would he call? Why does it move in between states from s#$Xtinf to emotional texts, emails, to coffees, to lunches together, to calling on weekends and after work after he's already seen me.. to making sure I am ok.. worrying..

 

What happened was that you fell in love whereas he is just enjoying the ride. He obviously likes the newness of a relationship, that in love feeling. It's fun to him. He pulls back if you get too close because he does not actually want you to disrupt his life but then he keeps you close because he also does not want you to go away. You are fun to him and it is a lot of work to find a new OW.

 

The mere fact he is encouraging you to date shows he truly is not serious about you. Granted if you did, he would pull you back in. He does not want to lose his favorite toy.

 

Do you want to be his toy?

[norudder]

Exmm invited me to a holiday party in his home with several coworkers of his and his wife's. I think his thought was a secret in plain sight is the easiest kept. So true. The only other female coworker he invited, turns out he was putting moves on her too in plain sight of myself.

 

These guys just do what they want to do "in the moment" with no real thought of anything further in the future or regard to the feelings of others that their momentary actions may impact.

 

I asked if he'd meant all the things he said, promises he'd made, feelings professed, and his answer was exactly that: "in the moment, yes".

 

Mr. Lucky said it eloquently in another post that paraphrased, it comes down to character. Cheating spouses are lacking it, they act out of their feelings rather than values.

Immature and selfish imo. And that applied to me at the time as well as a ww.

 

In regards to compartmentalizing, kind of ironic that he wants to have you in the same physical compartment but still very separate emotional compartment. Maybe he struggles with it and that's a subconscious attempt to deconflict.

 

Compartmentalizing is a psychological tool that is necessary at times to deal with stress, etc but I don't think it's a healthy way to live consistently. There's a difference between compartmentalizing a situation vs compartmentalizing who we are. The duality, secrecy and deception takes a toll on the self. Think about how deeply and in what ways you really want to be involved with someone of that mindset. It seems almost fractured or broken. The words integrity, integer and integration are related for a reason.

 

Being with single men or other men in open M can mix with your open M status. Single men who don't want a relationship of course, and with awareness of what behaviors lead to attachments and feelings so they can be kept in check to limit the amount of compartmentalizing necessary. But without those "feels" how enjoyable is it really?

[norudder]

Sorry just saw you're actually moving towards divorce.

Forget mm and focus on that. Dating single vs dating married is totally different.

 

Plus, think about what you said. You yourself realized when you didn't care your H was with other women it was over for you. So what do you think it means that the shoe is basically in the other foot with MM being ok with you being with other guys? Midnight is right, he's not serious about you. He may get upset, but again only "in the moment", and its mostly just his ego anyway being territorial.

 

It's sex and ego for him, whether he knows it concsiously or not or says it or not.

 

Be very sure you want the divorce on it's own merits and that you'd rather be alone than with stbxh because there's not a happy ending to count on with this guy.

[metamorphasing]

Sorry, I am separated - the open marriage was before.. and while MM came on the scene after the open marriage agreement came into place.. and MM has been a brilliant distraction, I have to admit, MM has really been supportive and said really lovely things and made sure I am ok through the whole process (not just sex, but out for coffee or lunch, or checking in during harder times during the separation from my husband), the A has been completely separate.. I haven't left my husband for my MM.. I was leaving in any event.. that journey has been years and years in the making..

 

I can see why you're confused.

You are obviously very much in love with him.

 

You seem to be a little bit in awe of him, maybe a bit intimidated?

 

My guess is, you're hesitant to appear as if you want "more", especially given your initial agreement..

 

Thanks for your reply.. I have asked myself a lot if I am in love.. sometimes I think maybe, other times. no. It doesn't feel like the way I have felt the way I do when I am in love.. I think you're right on the hesitant piece.. I haven't really spoken about these things with him.. Yes, I am afraid to bring up the topic.. yes, because it sits outside our initial T&Cs.. I know that sounds contradictory.. and I should probably assess that in itself. But yes, I am afraid. I have asked him if he thought it would be like this, but thats as far as I have explored.. he answers its way beyond that..

 

He seems invested in my wellbeing.. offered today to cover my out of pocket expenses for the vet/pet costs.. i was surprised and politely declined. He has checked in often regarding some medical testing I have had to have, making sure I am ok.. but then apologises for prying.. always wanting to help where he can.. was insistent on helping set up furniture in my new apartment when I separated... very vocally supportive of me at work.. commending my work often.. that never happened prior to the A.

 

Re the toy, and the sexual satisfaction only.. yes, I agree with you all.. and ego, definitely.. he always talks about how is isn't appreciated by his wife. I know I please him very much in that regard.. I believe this to be part of a freudian "madonna/whore complex". He once told me he doesn't really see his wife sexually like that.. he is prudish when it comes to sex and her.. I believe he has even seen a counsellor about it.. I nearly fell over, given how far from that he is with me.. guess I know my part in that complex.. Don't get me wrong.. I enjoy the sex.. its brilliant.. But I also know I am confused with the other behaviour, and emails, and perceived investment..

 

I do need to speak to him about his behaviour at work.. I think people are starting to suspect.. the way his eyes light up and he smiles when I arrive, constantly coming over to my desk for talks, or to have coffees in the staff cafe..

 

A friend I have confided in believes he wants to get caught.. I know this not to be true, as one evening his wife randomly asked him if he would do anything with anyone at work.. he answered with when would he have the time (well, at that point, he was working back, or we would go out for dinner and drinks - and while not knowing his behaviour at home, I can see why she would ask that though) He reminded me to keep my emails secure.. I said it wasn't coming from me...

 

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply.. I understand what I am in this.. well, what this is/was... just trying to understand the other parts..

[metamorphasing]

And do 'toys' get gifts of donuts left on their work desks in gift packaging (knowing how much I love them) and messages about when I do something specific to help another person he knows about, about "thats what he likes so much about me"? Surely someone that just wants sex only doesn't do these things? Why would you?

[Starswillshine]

And do 'toys' get gifts of donuts left on their work desks in gift packaging (knowing how much I love them) and messages about when I do something specific to help another person he knows about, about "thats what he likes so much about me"? Surely someone that just wants sex only doesn't do these things? Why would you?

 

 

YES!

 

Because most women aren't going to stick around when it's strictly and obviously just to be used for HIS sexual pleausure.

 

Also, giving you those gifts.... that is strictly ego boosts for him. How do you respond to those gifts? Plus, what true effort did he make? He stopped at a donut shop and had someone wrap them up? So he slid his card in the machine. No effort.

[Starswillshine]

Also, he must keep you happy so you don't blow up his world. Don't forget how much power you have here. And he has to keep you interested and invested. Don't ever underestimate this.

[metamorphasing]

Also, he must keep you happy so you don't blow up his world. Don't forget how much power you have here. And he has to keep you interested and invested. Don't ever underestimate this.

 

Thanks Starswillshine

 

Its interesting you know.. somedays I have fleeting realisations of this power you write about.. that he also needs me to fulfil his needs.. without it.. well, everyone is replaceable.. but I was an opportunity he couldn't resist and seemingly can't be without now.. well, he could, but cake is delicious isn't it..

 

Today I don't feel powerful.. today I feel sad, low, lonely, down.. Ive realised how I have fallen.. and how the only heart broken in this story will end up being mine.. its just when I (or he) decides to pull the pin and end it now..

 

Oh the webs we weave...