True or false: Men prefer average women because less work and competition?

[Hopeful30]

People in general are affected by looks. Good looking people are treated better, and have more opportunities.

 

^^ Very strong misconception.

 

Just reading through this thread, there are a lot of harsh judgements towards good looking people who apparently "have it easier". High maintenance being the most obvious example.

 

I've worked all my life in a business known for good looking people (not me ) of both sexes. Many of them have a uniquely distorted view of the world.

 

As smackie9 stated, the better treatment tends to build entitlement and diminish problem-solving skills. There are exceptions, but they tend to look at relationships, whether romantic, friendship or professional, from a transactional basis, a tiring perspective if you're on the other end.

 

We cannot blame these people for having this kind of outlook on life. We ourselves condition them to act like their looks can be a form of transaction. It's how people are raised these days. We cannot blame beautiful people for using their looks as a transaction if we've built society to treat it like a currency.

 

Do they really?

 

 

Back in college it wasn't rare for me to come across georgeous girls who had everything going for them in terms of raw genetic beauty: 5'7''+ 110-120lbs, with that being all curves and boobs, flat stomach, wide hips, clear skin, without any blemishes, straight white teeth, high cheekbones, thick, full, long hair, and overall absolutely stunning.

 

 

...and these were the girls who were more often than not, single.

 

Men go after what they can get.

 

So much truth to this. But if the most beautiful women are usually single, does that mean most men can't get her? Are there more pretty women than competent men?

 

 

So now. you(not you personally) are the average woman with the good looking guy...Every time you go someplace, there are women sizing up your man and wondering what the hell he sees in you..You go to dinner and the waitress is staring at his biceps and not even hearing what you say....And she's better looking and younger than you, even if the guy shows no intention to want to be with any of these women, a lot of women wont want to deal with that, and have that constant feeling of insecurity...So they grudgingly bail...

 

This depends on the guy. If he only has eyes for the woman, it honestly wouldn't matter. If he likes the attention, that's a different story.

 

Only one way to find out...

[Hopeful30]

Hopeful30, why do you ask? Is this just curiosity? Where do you fit into it all?

 

It's curiousity mixed with the fact that I see the greatest women always single.

 

I always thought that to meet the right person, you need to be whole and complete within yourself first, so I spent my twenties doing just that. I've travelled the world, worked through my childhood issues, got into shape, worked up the corporate ladder, started dancing, got my own place, etc. And yet, everything I did to better myself seems to diminish love prospects. Men approach me less now than they did before, and I don't understand, I'm a better version...

 

I know mean women who sit at home and do nothing but spend their man's money, yet they have loving, loyal boyfriends who are perfect husband material (and good looking too).

 

I'm just trying to understand the dynamic of men in the west so I can finally share my life with someone. I've spent my entire life (literally) gaining experience and trying to become a better person, yet love continues to be elusive...

 

I've been on tons of blind dates, but nothing even remotely close to the years of growth and development that a person needs to truly be ready for an authentic relationship...

 

And if the beautiful and magnetic women in my social circle are perpetually single, makes me question wtf is going on with men.

[Woggle]

Men approach women less in general these days. It's not just you.

[Hopeful30]

Men approach women less in general these days. It's not just you.

 

What advice would you give a traditional woman who is looking for an old-souled gentleman in the west?

[Woggle]

What advice would you give a traditional woman who is looking for an old-souled gentleman in the west?

 

Do the approaching yourself. It might not be what you want to year but men these days are afraid to even look at a woman.

[snowboy91]

What makes someone look high maintenance? Is it if they're dressed well? They look clean? When does regular maintenance turn into *high* maintenance?

 

Besides, why do men assume that high maintenance is a bad thing? Women who are high maintenance are like that because they are maintaining themselves to that standard. How is this related to men? Why is it unattractive?

 

it's not like a high maintenance woman will start dating a guy and then expect him to do her nails, hair, makeup, and buy her expensive clothes just because she's "high maintenance" She's already doing this herself...

 

 

I think when guys refer to a girl as "high maintenance" she's usually someone who expects a lot of his time and affection, expects expensive gifts, has to behave in exactly the right way to avoid upsetting her, etc, as opposed to a girl that simply puts a lot of effort into her appearance. And yes this is a bad thing - it's really draining and therefore the relationship often doesn't last as the guy gets tired of expending so much energy for relatively little in return. Sure, from his perspective he at first enjoys being able to bang a "10" (I hate the use of the scale, but it fits my point here) but when the novelty wears off he's stuck with someone who is taking all his time and energy (and possibly money).

 

I think what is meant by a "look" of "high maintenance" is that there is an assumption that girls who put a lot of effort into their appearance are often the ones that expect a lot from a partner. It's not always true but it's true often enough that the assumption is there.

[alphamale]

I think when guys refer to a girl as "high maintenance" she's usually someone who expects a lot of his time and affection, expects expensive gifts, has to behave in exactly the right way to avoid upsetting her, etc, as opposed to a girl that simply puts a lot of effort into her appearance. And yes this is a bad thing - it's really draining and therefore the relationship often doesn't last as the guy gets tired of expending so much energy for relatively little in return. Sure, from his perspective he at first enjoys being able to bang a "10" (I hate the use of the scale, but it fits my point here) but when the novelty wears off he's stuck with someone who is taking all his time and energy (and possibly money).

 

I think what is meant by a "look" of "high maintenance" is that there is an assumption that girls who put a lot of effort into their appearance are often the ones that expect a lot from a partner. It's not always true but it's true often enough that the assumption is there.

 

a woman with long fingernails is usually high maintenance

[thefooloftheyear]

It's curiousity mixed with the fact that I see the greatest women always single.

 

I always thought that to meet the right person, you need to be whole and complete within yourself first, so I spent my twenties doing just that. I've travelled the world, worked through my childhood issues, got into shape, worked up the corporate ladder, started dancing, got my own place, etc. And yet, everything I did to better myself seems to diminish love prospects. Men approach me less now than they did before, and I don't understand, I'm a better version...

 

I know mean women who sit at home and do nothing but spend their man's money, yet they have loving, loyal boyfriends who are perfect husband material (and good looking too).

 

I'm just trying to understand the dynamic of men in the west so I can finally share my life with someone. I've spent my entire life (literally) gaining experience and trying to become a better person, yet love continues to be elusive...

 

I've been on tons of blind dates, but nothing even remotely close to the years of growth and development that a person needs to truly be ready for an authentic relationship...

 

And if the beautiful and magnetic women in my social circle are perpetually single, makes me question wtf is going on with men.

 

It's not "wtf" is going on with men...

 

There is a saying ….

 

"A poor craftsman blames his tools"

 

What you perceive as the ideal woman to enter into a romantic relationship with a man...well....obviously isn't.....or these women wouldn't be constantly on the outside looking in...Its not the guys, its the women here...Its no different than the whining guys that think just because they say they are nice guys(when they don't even know what nice really is) that women should be lined up out their doors...Even the comment about the "mean women" reeks of the same stuff those struggling guys moan about the "bad boys">..Its the same crap..

 

For many, this game isn't easy....But sitting around and blaming the refs, or whatever wont be helpful...At the end of the day the buck stops with the person..

 

TFY

[PRW]

It's curiousity mixed with the fact that I see the greatest women always single.

 

I always thought that to meet the right person, you need to be whole and complete within yourself first, so I spent my twenties doing just that. I've travelled the world, worked through my childhood issues, got into shape, worked up the corporate ladder, started dancing, got my own place, etc. And yet, everything I did to better myself seems to diminish love prospects. Men approach me less now than they did before, and I don't understand, I'm a better version....

 

You've outran them. They are either intimidated or they look at it in a more practical sense that they view themselves as not being able to "keep up". Yes, the whole High Maintenance idea definitely applies to you. What you think is true of yourself really doesn't mean anything,....it is their perception of you that really matters, that is what they make their decisions on and you can't force them to decide the way you want them to decide.

 

Climbing the "corporate ladder" would definitely make me run the other way.

"Traveling the world" would be a negative,...if nothing else it would say "excessively independent".

Owning you own home can be a negative,...it gets in the way. If you get married then something has to be done with it and selling it is a problem if you haven't built enough equity,...it also means "debt".

In the end men want to go where they are needed,...clearly they are not needed by you.

 

The idea of a "Power Couple" paints a picture of a loveless sexless marriage where the two are focused only on aquiring wealth and material things.

 

I'll repeat what I said above: What you think is true of yourself really doesn't mean anything,....it is their perception of you that really matters, that is what they make their decisions on and you can't force them to decide the way you want them to decide.

[elaine567]

I always thought that to meet the right person, you need to be whole and complete within yourself first, so I spent my twenties doing just that. I've travelled the world, worked through my childhood issues, got into shape, worked up the corporate ladder, started dancing, got my own place, etc. And yet, everything I did to better myself seems to diminish love prospects. Men approach me less now than they did before, and I don't understand, I'm a better version...

 

I know mean women who sit at home and do nothing but spend their man's money, yet they have loving, loyal boyfriends who are perfect husband material (and good looking too).

 

I'm just trying to understand the dynamic of men in the west so I can finally share my life with someone. I've spent my entire life (literally) gaining experience and trying to become a better person, yet love continues to be elusive...

 

I've been on tons of blind dates, but nothing even remotely close to the years of growth and development that a person needs to truly be ready for an authentic relationship...

 

And if the beautiful and magnetic women in my social circle are perpetually single, makes me question wtf is going on with men.

 

 

Because "most" men still even in 2018, want to be #1 in the relationship.

 

They want to be the clever one, the wordly one, the one making a lot of money, the one with the "important" hobby, the one with the experience, the teacher, the leader... they get upset and frustrated and annoyed by being upstaged.

They are happier with ditsy, submissive, loser women than they are with intelligent, assertive, successful women who may show them up to be lacking.

Few men can now match you, never mind surpass you, so I guess they don't bother trying.

Annie the pretty server at the burger joint is a better bet for them...

[Mysterio]

What is a 10 or a 7 or a 5 in looks? What is average looking. I think most of us have to define what that is. My friend JC is a 10 in my head and she is slightly heavy set. My friend AG is a 10 as well and she is slender.

 

For me I guess a 10 should almost be a woman that is in Olympic athletic shape body wise. Looks are all over the place for me. I think I tend to look for softness and an easy going nature. If it's not there. I find that I am not as attracted to her as much.

 

I love women that are able to turn on the sweet nature. Foul-mouthed sailor need not apply.

 

What am I in looks? I see myself as a combo of being Cute and handsome. I have straight white teeth. I am 5'9/Black male/197 lbs. Striving to get to be about 170 lbs. Shaved head. If I was going to use a Super stars body frame. Maybe I would say singer-Seals body frame with maybe a little more muscle. Or Chadwick Boseman.

 

Looks is subjective at best. I think that my 67 yr old female friend is a beauty. I think that most of us males. It really depends on how a woman reacts to us and treats us as we grow older. I really can't get too excited over a woman that I don't know or see in person.

[Hopeful30]

You've outran them. They are either intimidated or they look at it in a more practical sense that they view themselves as not being able to "keep up". Yes, the whole High Maintenance idea definitely applies to you. What you think is true of yourself really doesn't mean anything,....it is their perception of you that really matters, that is what they make their decisions on and you can't force them to decide the way you want them to decide.

 

Climbing the "corporate ladder" would definitely make me run the other way.

"Traveling the world" would be a negative,...if nothing else it would say "excessively independent".

Owning you own home can be a negative,...it gets in the way. If you get married then something has to be done with it and selling it is a problem if you haven't built enough equity,...it also means "debt".

In the end men want to go where they are needed,...clearly they are not needed by you.

 

The fact that you say "clearly they're not needed by you" is the reason women like me are single. And you're right, it's their perception of me. I guess perception in the west is very distorted if well put-together people suddenly don't need sex, affection or relationship because they know how to be an independent adult...

[elaine567]

No. Annie at the burger joint is likely more fun and down to Earth than any woman who feels she has surpassed most men, upstaged them, or showed them to be lacking. Once women start acting in such a way that it becomes obvious they feel this about most men, most men will stay away from them. Annie would be a better partner for anyone. A better attitude>a better job, any day.

I rest my case.

[NuevoYorko]

The fact that you say "clearly they're not needed by you" is the reason women like me are single. And you're right, it's their perception of me. I guess perception in the west is very distorted if well put-together people suddenly don't need sex, affection or relationship because they know how to be an independent adult...

 

I almost think you aren't being serious.

 

A woman who has attained many of their goals in life is only a problem to one type of man: an insecure one.

 

I don't know any man who would shy away from a woman because she has traveled the world, has attained a good position in work and/or owns a home. Not a single one.

 

My advice is to forget about alphabets and hang around with guys who don't need a woman they feel is beneath them in order to feel like a man.

[NuevoYorko]

No. Annie at the burger joint is likely more fun and down to Earth than any woman who feels she has surpassed most men, upstaged them, or showed them to be lacking. Once women start acting in such a way that it becomes obvious they feel this about most men,

 

Where did you find anything about how successful women feel about the men, positive or negative?

 

The point in all of this is that there are men who can't handle being around successful women because of ego. Sure, they are going to be more compatible with a McDonald's employee. That's fine, McDonald's employees need love too. It doesn't mean in any sense that a woman who has achieved a successful career is somehow in the wrong because there are men who feel less than a man around her; it simply means that she won't be dating such men. Win/win. But there is a great deal of projecting going on here.

[thefooloftheyear]

I almost think you aren't being serious.

 

A woman who has attained many of their goals in life is only a problem to one type of man: an insecure one.

 

I don't know any man who would shy away from a woman because she has traveled the world, has attained a good position in work and/or owns a home. Not a single one.

 

My advice is to forget about alphabets and hang around with guys who don't need a woman they feel is beneath them in order to feel like a man.

 

While I agree with all of this I will add one footnote...

 

Some successful and accomplished women sometimes lose that part of themselves that men find sexy and attractive...They may have forgotten what its like to act or dress sexy..To have a certain softness and warmth to their character....They seem to have a certain "coldness" to them, and this type of stuff winds up being a boner killer for most guys...

 

The one's that know how to balance it, have it made...I agree with you in the sense that I don't buy the theory these women bang on about saying now guys are intimidated by them...Intimidated? ,,,,Nope.,,,Just turned off,,

 

So it has nothing to do with their accomplishments, job, W2 or anything else related....Its something else...

 

TFY

[littleblackheart]

Random 'good' guy = don't care about a woman's education or paycheck or job as long as she's fun and pretty and thinks I'm awesome.

 

Also random 'good' guy = so tired of these shallow, entitled women who expect us to pay for everything!

 

What I'm hearing under the 'keep it real' narrative = a ton of insecurities and super low standards (other than looks, naturally). Not particularly attractive.

 

OP, maybe your single friends like it that way?

[elaine567]

This is not about condescension in women this is about male insecurity in the face of quality women.

Hopeful30 does surpass many men, that is fact just like some men surpass some women.

Are all those successful men then "condescending" and have bad attitudes that look down on women and need avoided?

NO, because that is seen as the "norm".

It is fine for men to be intelligent, assertive and successful but God help any woman who purports to be the same...

Hopeful30 needs to get herself away from "normal" and average guys as they will not accept her.

Successful, educated, quality women tend not to be too worried about dating average Joes, it is the average Joes that have the problem.

[alphamale]

Successful, educated, quality women tend not to be too worried about dating average Joes, it is the average Joes that have the problem.

 

most of the successful, educated, quality women I know are sitting at home alone on Saturday night watching Hallmark channel and eating bon bons

[littleblackheart]

most of the successful, educated, quality women I know are sitting at home alone on Saturday night watching Hallmark channel and eating bon bons

 

Where do you live??

 

Most of those I know are happily married with equally successful, educated, quality men. The single ones (I won't put myself in that category as I wouldn't specifically describe myself as 'successful', mainly because I'm not sure what that means) are either single by choice or by default (career first, they don't have time) - they never seem to be at home, either. They are out meeting friends or going on holidays in high end locations.

[Woggle]

Success is a good trait but a bitter and negative attitude towards men will good any other positive trait. Women with that attitude are nothing but stress.

[littleblackheart]

Hopeful30, don't worry. It's nothing to do with gender or how educated or successful you are.

 

There are men out there for you - don't guage your dating potential by what others like or by your dating history so far.

 

You simply haven't met someone compatible enough with you just yet. Keep your standards high and your expectations low, and it will work out for you whether single or in a couple.

[alphamale]

Where do you live??

 

Oakland County, Michigan...it's a top 10 most wealthiest county in the US. Lots of successful and independent single women here.

[littleblackheart]

Oakland County, Michigan...it's a top 10 most wealthiest county in the US. Lots of successful and independent single women here.

 

I'm not really sure how 'success' is measured for the purpose of this thread (is it based on personal achievements or the bank balance or the social status?) and I guess it's all relative anyway, but either way, if most of the educated, sucessful, quality women you know are sat at home eating bon bons, maybe that's just down to logistics (age, number of single 'quality' men) rather than some sort of gender war?

 

Maybe it's just a question of all of us needing to adjust our definitions for 'success' and 'quality'?

 

On the whole, I think men and women are out to get the best partner for them (which means different things to different people) and I can't see anyone deliberately going for an 'average person' unless they have some deep rooted insecurities.

[alphamale]

I'm not really sure how 'success' is measured for the purpose of this thread (is it based on personal achievements or the bank balance or the social status?) and I guess it's all relative anyway, but either way, if most of the educated, sucessful, quality women you know are sat at home eating bon bons, maybe that's just down to logistics (age, number of single 'quality' men) rather than some sort of gender war?

 

Maybe it's just a question of all of us needing to adjust our definitions for 'success' and 'quality'?

 

On the whole, I think men and women are out to get the best partner for them (which means different things to different people) and I can't see anyone deliberately going for an 'average person' unless they have some deep rooted insecurities.

 

indeed lbh...