She's no longer in love with me

[TurningPoint23]

My wife and I have been together for 20 years, since we were 16, now 36. We've been each other's everything for our entire adult lives.

 

A few years into our relationship, my wife developed some emotional/psychological issues. These were very difficult for both of us, and I struggled to help her through. We made it through, and although those difficulties reduced in severity, they were never gone completely.

 

A few years after that we had a child. This was a very difficult time in our lives. The birth itself nearly killed the child and could have potentially killed her. In the months after, she was depressed and I was extremely stressed. I was working insane hours, always exhausted, and felt alone with her having withdrawn into herself. She snapped out of it eventually, as our child got a bit older, and the stress level reduced. We still struggled and faced conflicts, including some serious ones.

 

Then came our biggest conflict. She wanted to have another kid. She had always envisioned having 2 kids growing up, and felt being a mom was her destiny, purpose in life, etc. I had believed I wanted two kids at one point too. But by this point, all I could think of was how challenging having our first kid was.. how close we had come to having our marriage fail. I'm an extremely responsible man, with my sense of responsibility sometimes being 'paralyzing', due to my bad childhood (growing up very poor). I had to weigh out the risk/reward of having a 2nd child, and I just couldn't see it being a good idea. I admit that I also need a lot from my partner... I need her time, energy, love... to feel she is there for me. With our first child, this need went excruciatingly unfulfilled. A 2nd child, I feared, would lead to her detachment to a level I couldn't handle.

 

This conflict came to a head, and ultimately I put my foot down on the subject. Doing so was devastating to my wife. Later, perhaps related in some way, she had new bouts of mental illness. Once again I found myself feeling alone and unfulfilled, but I stayed with her and did all I could to help her through it. After a couple years, she seems to gradually come out of it. Her getting a job, I think, really helped with this (she had been stay at home for the previous 7-8 years mostly).

 

But even though she wasn't suffering the mental and emotional challenges anymore, there remained a disconnect between us. I ignored this. I suppose I did so mostly because everything is always in transition, always changing, and I figured it was just a leftover symptom of her psychological troubles and she just needed more time. But deep down, I think I knew the truth.

 

Recently I've been having my own issues. Work has been very bad, and I've been getting close to having a break-down. In my despair, I decided I would open up with my wife... I wanted us to be close and wanted her to feel that I am willing to be emotionally open to her. Her response was not what I needed or expected. Instead of showing compassion and support, she spoke of her fear of how this might affect her. She didn't touch me or kiss me or anything. This was 2 days ago.

 

Yesterday I was very upset and angry about how she handled that conversation. I thought all day about what it means, and something clicked. I realized this distance from her has been the case for years. I knew the truth. So last night I confronted her about it.

 

I explained what had happened, from my point of view, and why I was upset. I basically said that this revealed what I had suspected for a long time. That she may love and care about me, but she is no longer in love with me... no longer feeling that deep desire for me that I need from a partner. She cried, and did not deny it. After a long time, she said it was because of the 2nd child conflict all those years before. That when I put my foot down, I sent her the message that I didn't love her the way she needed. She talked about how she looks around at all these other marriages where the couples are worse off, or the wife is less attractive or not as good of a wife/mother, yet the husbands still have 2 or more kids with them. So for me to deny her this need must mean I don't love her as much. Obviously I don't agree, but I can't change how she feels or what she believes.

 

So this is where we are now. She communicated that she would be happy just continuing on as we are indefinitely. She even talked about how she would welcome me seeking out that love that I need with another woman. She just doesn't want to lose me, to break our family, to hurt me or our child.

 

I don't know what to do. Obviously I'm still in early stages of grief: denial and bargaining. I want her to say she will find a way to love me, or that there is something I can do to fix things. Having another child is out of the question, in case anyone is wondering (for one thing I've had a vasectomy, but regardless, I know another child would plunge her back into depression and destroy us eventually anyway).

 

Financially and with respect to living conditions, I can't imagine how we could even separate. We have decent equity in our house, but after splitting it wouldn't make a dent in the housing market in our area now... we just can't afford to live in this area separately. But this is where we work! So this means we would have to move somewhere else, which means we both need to find jobs again. Plus this means uprooting our child from everything he knows - his friends, school, family, home.

 

On the one hand, I vowed to myself long ago to do anything i needed to to keep my child from suffering some of the things I did as a kid. To keep him in a stable and loving home, never hungry or cold the way I was. If we separate, I feel I will have broken this vow. On the other hand, I am so lonely... I need to feel loved by someone, fully, unreservedly. I don't know how much longer I can live this way.

 

And then there is the option to do as she says. To keep our family together, and pursue love with someone else. Realistically I just don't see this happening. For one thing, what woman will want to date and fall in love with a man that still lives with his wife? For another, I don't want other women... I want her. She is the one I've been desperate for since I was a kid - the only woman I've been with and want to be with. I imagine trying to be with someone else, and I picture myself measuring them against her... how this woman isn't my wife. I can't imagine loving someone else. Plus, if we stay together, how would that really work? Would we just put up more and more walls, resenting each other with each new step along the way, feeling agony as the other person slips further away?

[Mr. Lucky]

And then there is the option to do as she says. To keep our family together, and pursue love with someone else. Realistically I just don't see this happening. For one thing, what woman will want to date and fall in love with a man that still lives with his wife? For another, I don't want other women... I want her. She is the one I've been desperate for since I was a kid - the only woman I've been with and want to be with. I imagine trying to be with someone else, and I picture myself measuring them against her... how this woman isn't my wife. I can't imagine loving someone else. Plus, if we stay together, how would that really work? Would we just put up more and more walls, resenting each other with each new step along the way, feeling agony as the other person slips further away?

 

You are beyond being the prime candidates for marriage counseling, you may in fact be the poster children. Poor communication, long-held resentments and self-imposed disconnects - all fertile ground for a skilled therapist...

 

Mr. Lucky

[TurningPoint23]

You are beyond being the prime candidates for marriage counseling, you may in fact be the poster children. Poor communication, long-held resentments and self-imposed disconnects - all fertile ground for a skilled therapist...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I mentioned my willingness to seek out a marriage counselor, and she shut it down. She is a very, very private person. After many years of me pushing her regarding her mental illnesses, she finally went to a therapist and feels it was a complete failure and waste of time and money.

 

I don't know that we have bad communication, however. I think we are both capable of being open and I believe our honesty is very good. I haven't seen any signs of us holding back honesty, even when we know it may hurt the other.

[carhill]

Welcome to LS....

 

She even talked about how she would welcome me seeking out that love that I need with another woman. She just doesn't want to lose me, to break our family, to hurt me or our child.

 

She's got an exit plan worked out and this is a social hack. Don't fall for it. Women don't make statements like that, or that they're 'no longer in love with me' unless they have a plan. Forget all that protect/serve programming.

 

Long down the road and over a generation your senior, I'd call it 20 and good, thanks for the memories, we're both young, lots of life left to live. Your son is a teenager, no shortage of other kids his age with co-parents, no biggie.

 

The fear of lifestyle change and 'what will others think?' can loom large. If your wife is the calculating type, MC probably won't help but worth a try if not too expensive. I'd float the MC balloon just to see what happens.

[Mr. Lucky]

I don't know that we have bad communication, however. I think we are both capable of being open and I believe our honesty is very good. I haven't seen any signs of us holding back honesty, even when we know it may hurt the other.

 

Here is but one of many examples:

 

After a long time, she said it was because of the 2nd child conflict all those years before. That when I put my foot down, I sent her the message that I didn't love her the way she needed. She talked about how she looks around at all these other marriages where the couples are worse off, or the wife is less attractive or not as good of a wife/mother, yet the husbands still have 2 or more kids with them. So for me to deny her this need must mean I don't love her as much. Obviously I don't agree, but I can't change how she feels or what she believes.

 

Given the current situation, the fact you think have good communication is probably a sign of ... bad communication.

 

Don't know if MC is your only chance but certainly think it's your best one...

 

Mr. Lucky

[carhill]

Go to MC without her. Make sure she knows that's what you're doing.

[TurningPoint23]

Here is but one of many examples:

 

 

 

Given the current situation, the fact you think have good communication is probably a sign of ... bad communication.

 

Don't know if MC is your only chance but certainly think it's your best one...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

That's what I meant when I said that deep down, I knew. We had had many fights about the 2nd child thing. I knew how bad I hurt her, I just pretended I didn't. We had communicated about it until we were merely talking in circles, and then we kept doing so, many times, over the course of a few years. We communicated the hell out of the topic. It was an impossible situation - Her primary interest in life was 2 or more kids, my primary interest was her and having a successful family. I couldn't accomplish what I needed if I gave her what she needed. This is and was all known. This is what went around in circles over and over. We essentially called a truce, pretended everything was fine, and a cold war ensued. You can't pretend to love someone, and you can't pretend to be loved by someone indefinitely.

[carhill]

You'd be surprised how good women are at letting men love them. It goes along with passive manipulation. Less likely to happen in a dating situation where sunk costs are low but in a high sunk cost long marriage, oh yeah. If your spouse is 'private', she pushes stuff down, buries it.

 

I remember one MW who kinda laughed about making the next days grocery list out in her mind while her H was banging away. He had a profitable group of ranches and provided for a nice lifestyle for her and the kids so the sunk costs were valuable. Could she have lied? Sure! She had enough affairs, could've been lying to everyone. Still, women who admit to affairs and other ugly stuff does lend some cred to discourteous acts. I tended to believe her.

 

Whatever your spouse doesn't want to discuss with a counselor is going to be hanging out there forever. That's not your responsibility, it's hers. A MC can help you clarify the value and direction of your M. The M can still be the client even if she doesn't want to participate. You can make decisions that are healthy for the marriage as a result of your work.

 

Or, just go with how things are now. Sun continues to rise and set, status quo is fairly comfortable. People do it every day.

[Mr. Lucky]

That's what I meant when I said that deep down, I knew. We had had many fights about the 2nd child thing. I knew how bad I hurt her, I just pretended I didn't. We had communicated about it until we were merely talking in circles, and then we kept doing so, many times, over the course of a few years. We communicated the hell out of the topic.

 

Feels like you're missing the point.

 

Communication isn't a process standing alone, it's a means to an end. You have good communication when it embodies the tools that aid in successful conflict resolution - clarity, listening skills, respect, consideration and adaptability. Happy couples don't have less disputes than everyone else, they're just better at resolving them.

 

Here's three issues from your first post:

 

- second child

- emotional disconnect between you

- job/lifestyle situation

 

Carhill's advice is good, go yourself if she won't. There's a process here akin to loosening a rusted bolt. Time to start applying some WD-40...

 

Mr. Lucky

[BaileyB]

I mentioned my willingness to seek out a marriage counselor, and she shut it down. She is a very, very private person. After many years of me pushing her regarding her mental illnesses, she finally went to a therapist and feels it was a complete failure and waste of time and money.

 

If my choice was go to marriage counselling, or have my marriage fall apart... I would go to marriage counselling.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Turning, I think you killed your marriage when you put your foot down on a second child. If you knew that your wife wanted to have a second child so much you should have discussed it with her and when you found that she was fixated on it you should have allowed her that choice. By putting down your foot you effectively told her in so many words that you did not care what she thought or needed and it had to be a 'My way or the Highway' kind of thing.

 

Now so many years later there is not much use in crying over spilt milk. Also as someone said , she may have someone up her sleeve now as she is working and may have had the opportunity to hook up with someone at the work place. I do not know if it will rectify matters but you can offer to have a second child with her if she still wants one. After all 36 years of age is not too old. If she is agreeable then I would say go ahead and let her be happy. It may still retrieve the situation for your marriage. I know it does not seem like a good idea but as they say 'Desperate times desperate measures'! Think about it.