Never thought I'd be an OW (long post)

[BaileyB]

We were both good to our spouses for a very long time. Neither of us are liars by nature which just makes this even more stressful. But thanks for the understanding.

 

An affair wasn’t the answer but that’s hindsight isn’t it? Yes we lied and cheated and we are now paying the price. It’s not something either of us are going to repeat. Once a cheater always a cheater paints broad strokes over all cheaters. Not everyone who cheats repeats their mistakes. Something to think about.

 

Sure. I hear you.

 

This reminds me of a friend, who's father had an affair and left her mother for another woman. My friend was an adult, and she cut her father out of her life after the affair.

 

And yet, she had an affair and ended her marriage many years later. She felt such guilt, was so destraught by her actions, that she was actually suicidal. But, she was honest with her husband and children, she took responsibility for her decision, and ended her marriage. It was absolutely awful for many years... and it is still awful at times. It has absolutely changed her relationship with her husband, her children, friends, and family. But, she is still together with her AP and they seem to be happy.

 

Will it work out for you too? Only time will tell. It's just so sad - to see someone make a decision when they know exactly the hurt it will cause others. And then, the need to spin the situation in an attempt to justify the decision and make it more acceptable, both to themselves and others.

[elaine567]

We were both good to our spouses for a very long time. Neither of us are liars by nature which just makes this even more stressful. But thanks for the understanding.

 

An affair wasn’t the answer but that’s hindsight isn’t it? Yes we lied and cheated and we are now paying the price. It’s not something either of us are going to repeat. Once a cheater always a cheater paints broad strokes over all cheaters. Not everyone who cheats repeats their mistakes. Something to think about.

 

 

Yes, you can speak for yourself, but you cannot speak for him.

This is a married guy you met 7 months ago on a dating app, who knows what he has been really up to?

This was a guy totally up for having a affair with you.

 

You are actually projecting your thoughts and feelings onto him, and you have come to the conclusion that he and you are exactly the same, but are you?

Time will tell.

[Artdeco]

But to do that he has to sell the house, and his wife and both kids will have to move out of the family home, as she cannot afford to pay him off.

He will not have a mortgage and can pay off his debts with the equity, but he will then be effectively your lodger.

(I hope you are not thinking of putting him on your mortgage or on the title deeds...)

 

I can see why he is stalling, he will be starting almost from scratch and will be relying on you to provide a roof over his head.

As soon as he makes his kids homeless, and moves in with you, he will have a tough job persuading them he is the good guy here.

If this relationship with you turns sour, which it very well might do (it is a new relationship and both of you have a load of baggage), he will be in no man's land.

 

Homeless children? Jesus.

 

Listen, he will either divorce, or he won’t. No reason to beat a dead horse. We all know that D is hard, for most people anyways.

 

If he does D, he won’t be the first; he won’t even be the first to divorce after a very long-term M, and after having met somebody new that he thinks is a better match. Jesus, it happens every day, and no, it’s not always the WS’s “fault”, or anybody’s fault for that matter. We can paint worst case scenarios all we want, but it’s a fact that around 50% of Ms end in divorce, and people either stay single or end up with somebody else post-D.

 

Do you really think that those who happily remarry or get into another serious R that lasts a lifetime have NOT known their next partner already while they were still M? And that only those who divorce for “all the right reasons” (whatever those are, provided they even exist in your world; or do you believe in staying M no matter what?) will not struggle financially or otherwise? D is hard for everyone, it needs to be thought through properly. Nobody I personally know has taken D lightly. Not even those sans kids, or those who used to fight non-stop. It is usually a back-and-forth struggle that takes a long time, even if both spouses are on the same page. Yes, even those who have amicably decided to end their M, after having done and tried everything (MC, self help books, IC, and whatnot), and have come to the conclusion together that their M is dead, have struggled with the decision. So I don’t think it’s an indicator of reluctance that OPs BF didn’t move out of his home the weekend after he met OP. That’s just unrealistic and not how things work. And I’m sure you know that. It’s been less than a year for them! What would people say if he had moved out after a few months? Wouldn’t you then question why he has moved out that quickly?

 

New relationships after getting divorced are hard. People are older. People have more experience, people have different expectations, they are set in their ways, but it’s got nothing to do with how people met. It has everything to do with how people have developed over time and the fact that they’re more mature. If two single people in their 50s meet online, they’ll go through the exact same struggle. It’s just not easy to find compatibility in that age group. Much different than dating in college etc. It’s an age-thing. It’s about life experience and maturity. TBH, I believe OP will actually have more of a success rate than two long-term singles meeting online or at a bar or wherever. She appears like someone who knows what she wants and what she doesn’t want.

 

Her MM seems to know as well. Just bc he’s not lined up all his ducks yet doesn’t mean he is “stringing her along”, and enjoys “two women fawning upon him”, and [enter more stereotypes here], because I really don’t see that when OP describes him as a person, and his behavior towards her. Do such (“bad”) MM exist? Probably. However, every situation is different, and it helps nobody if we respond to different questions/problems/scenarios by throwing out the same old stereotypical answers.

 

I would like to repeat: every situation is different, but I believe wholeheartedly that almost every D is hard, financially and emotionally, and if it’s not - that’s the exception. I (we all) would be shocked if OP’s MM had acted too hastily .... It would make him look like an immature prick who doesn’t plan ahead, and who decides too spontaneously, someone who’s not dependable and immature with rose-colored glasses on. Not a good choice for a partner.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Artdeco

[overtherainbow1]

You're specifically including the night he told her he wanted a separation as one of your red flags of him being a horrible person. In your estimation, is separation and divorce always mental cruelty?

 

Separation is going to involve abandoning your spouse and having plans on what would have been their birthday/anniversary/otherholidays.

 

A fair point, but OP's AP is not separated. And separation is really a joke anyways. It's for people who can't decide if they want to be married or not but want to absolve themselves of their commitments while still having the benefits or marriage.

[overtherainbow1]

We were both good to our spouses for a very long time. Neither of us are liars by nature which just makes this even more stressful. But thanks for the understanding.

 

An affair wasn’t the answer but that’s hindsight isn’t it? Yes we lied and cheated and we are now paying the price. It’s not something either of us are going to repeat. Once a cheater always a cheater paints broad strokes over all cheaters. Not everyone who cheats repeats their mistakes. Something to think about.

 

Past behavior is the best predictor of future actions. He cheated with you, but he won't cheat on you? I think you believe that b/c you want to believe that.

[Amethyst68]

So how many times have you been in her house to personally judge her housekeeping skills?

 

 

Look I know nothing we say is going to change your mind that he's the good guy, this is a man who's got extremely comfortable lying to his wife and family in a short period of time. I would recommend keeping the NC plan you had formed but somehow I don't think you will, I suspect he will need you to support him though his birthday and you'll be there.

[Artdeco]

A fair point, but OP's AP is not separated. And separation is really a joke anyways. It's for people who can't decide if they want to be married or not but want to absolve themselves of their commitments while still having the benefits or marriage.

 

In most cases separation precedes the actual D. Few people live together while divorce is in progress.

[overtherainbow1]

I don't hate her but I do feel sorry for her because by all accounts she had a good husband for 28 years and obviously didn't value that by her actions, as even their close friends acknowledged. He is being passive aggressive, which is not unusual for conflict avoidant types. Is there a better way to handle this on his part? Yes, absolutely. I guess I've seen desperate people do things that are out of character. Maybe that's how I've interpreted his behaviour.

 

Yes, there are two sides to every story. His part in all of this is he kept quiet when he should have spoken up. And then he removed himself physically by spending more time on physical activity, work and left the bedroom, all classic signs of a failing marriage. Both should have made an effort years ago but it appears there isn't much to salvage any longer. He should have spoken up; she should have pressed for answers. There was talk of marriage counselling 7 weeks ago but neither pursued that option. Doesn't appear either has any real interest in putting in the work.

You say "even their close friends say....(insert quote here)". Well the wayward spouse always has a story similar to this. Do you think you are getting the whole story?

 

Why would your AP tell you the good parts of his marriage?

 

Does that seem manipulative?

 

Is he open and looking for the god's honest truth, or just looking for someone to tell him he's fine?

[Starswillshine]

I went back to re-read OP.

 

So you both were in such horrible marriages. And instead of divorcing, you both chose to SEEK out an affair. Not a case of knowing someone and falling in love at a vulnerable time. You both actively were online dating. And now... instead of fixing your own personal crap.... you are choosing to move in together after he actually decides to separate from his wife?

 

[] I suggest you get some counseling to fix your own issues.

Edited November 5, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Topical content

[elaine567]

I would like to repeat: every situation is different, but I believe wholeheartedly that almost every D is hard, financially and emotionally, and if it’s not - that’s the exception. I (we all) would be shocked if OP’s MM had acted too hastily .... It would make him look like an immature prick who doesn’t plan ahead, and who decides too spontaneously, someone who’s not dependable and immature with rose-colored glasses on. Not a good choice for a partner.

 

No-one has suggested that the MM move out within a week(ridiculous) or that divorce isn't hard, but the OP has now been 7 and a half weeks of a 7 and a half month relationship in limbo, with him promising to leave and to be with her, and yet nothing essentially has happened, apart from him playing passive aggressive "games" with his wife... That is where the "stringing along" has come from.

Now it seems he will do something about it this week, we will await developments...

[Bittersweetie]

An affair wasn’t the answer but that’s hindsight isn’t it? Yes we lied and cheated and we are now paying the price. It’s not something either of us are going to repeat. Once a cheater always a cheater paints broad strokes over all cheaters. Not everyone who cheats repeats their mistakes. Something to think about.

 

I was a MOW and I agree that not everyone who cheats repeats their mistakes hurtful and selfish choices. However, you are only 7 months into this affair. You both were actively looking for people outside your marriage when you met. You made the choice to look elsewhere instead of addressing the issues of your marriage and yourself. Now, you're like, yeah, we're paying the price, hindsight, etc.

 

I suggest actually looking deeper in order to find out why you decided to seek someone outside your marriage rather than address the issues. Yes, you are divorcing your husband. But if you don't address the underlying issue here, then yes, you may cheat again. Does that make sense?

 

If you end up with this guy, and he starts acting poorly, are you going to cope the same way? How do you know? I'm just trying to say, don't shrug this kind of criticism off so easily...you ARE a cheater (and so am I). So what specific steps, for yourself, are you taking to ensure it does not happen again?

[overtherainbow1]

In most cases separation precedes the actual D. Few people live together while divorce is in progress.

 

I understand separation precedes the D. Sounds kinda funny to type that out!!!

 

But in the case of affairs, it's always (or almost always) a way of wayward spouse to justify their actions while they eat cake and manipulate everyone.

[Amethyst68]

Not to mention this a man who has supposedly already told his wife he is leaving but I'd making no actual move to do so. MM just continues to play head games with his BS.

 

 

 

Quite frankly I'm all for the MM moving out, I think his current behaviour is appalling and the fact he is supposedly doing it to be "kind" just takes the cruelty to a higher level.

[elaine567]

If your husband is indeed a narcissist as you say, then people take a long long time to get over narcissistic abuse, years even.

You can't just monkey branch onto the first guy who shows interest without consequences.

 

Also people who have been the victims of narcissists often end up as victims of another "abuser" as they are often ripe for the picking.

Be careful.

I was married to a narcissist, thanks to several people who knew him, including a surgeon and psychologist.

[brigit87]

I went back to re-read OP.

 

So you both were in such horrible marriages. And instead of divorcing, you both chose to SEEK out an affair. Not a case of knowing someone and falling in love at a vulnerable time. You both actively were online dating. And now... instead of fixing your own personal crap.... you are choosing to move in together after he actually decides to separate from his wife?

 

[] I suggest you get some counseling to fix your own issues.

 

I could understand wanting to have some relief from a bad situation. Nobody knows how HORRIBLE these marriages were maybe they were abusive or just unsatisfying.

 

But meeting on a dating app is bad. Nobody is perfect. I've done some not so wonderful things during my marriage. I guess time will tell if this works out or not.

[PhoenixRising8]

I was a MOW and I agree that not everyone who cheats repeats their mistakes hurtful and selfish choices. However, you are only 7 months into this affair. You both were actively looking for people outside your marriage when you met. You made the choice to look elsewhere instead of addressing the issues of your marriage and yourself. Now, you're like, yeah, we're paying the price, hindsight, etc.

 

I suggest actually looking deeper in order to find out why you decided to seek someone outside your marriage rather than address the issues. Yes, you are divorcing your husband. But if you don't address the underlying issue here, then yes, you may cheat again. Does that make sense?

 

If you end up with this guy, and he starts acting poorly, are you going to cope the same way? How do you know? I'm just trying to say, don't shrug this kind of criticism off so easily...you ARE a cheater (and so am I). So what specific steps, for yourself, are you taking to ensure it does not happen again?

 

We both DID try to address the issues in our marriages. I know I certainly did. I knew finally that the marriage was in name only but I didn't have the courage to leave, primarily for financial reasons as I had put my inheritance into our home so he walks off with half of it. When he finally blew our daughter's world up in an effort to get to me, I knew I had no choice but to leave. Before that, I had sunk into an abyss. I was dead inside. I knew I couldn't leave and I thought an affair would help me survive my marriage. It did help, until he threw our daughter under the bus. I know now that finances are not worth my sanity, and I know what the downsides of an affair are, so no, never again.

[PhoenixRising8]

She could file for adultry and mental cruelty!

 

You realize that right?

 

And why is this a man you want? This IS who he IS!

 

I don't think you're admitting to yourself what a schmuck he really is.

 

I'm getting close ...

[PhoenixRising8]

If your husband is indeed a narcissist as you say, then people take a long long time to get over narcissistic abuse, years even.

You can't just monkey branch onto the first guy who shows interest without consequences.

 

Also people who have been the victims of narcissists often end up as victims of another "abuser" as they are often ripe for the picking.

Be careful.

 

I'm pretty resilient and I was in therapy because of my father, also a narcissist. Didn't recognize it in the ex for a while as he only displayed that behaviour sporadically. It got worse as he got older until it was intolerable. But no, not putting up with abuse again. I'm self sufficient and independent. I don't need someone to take care of me. I would like some companionship. MM and are are really good together but this inertia is becoming intolerable. I doubt he will succeed this week, despite his stated best intentions.

[BaileyB]

I'm pretty resilient and I was in therapy because of my father, also a narcissist. Didn't recognize it in the ex for a while as he only displayed that behaviour sporadically.

 

Indeed. And now there is a very good chance that your MM is a also narcissist (as most MM - they would almost have to be to feel so entitled to stay with the wife, and have another woman on the side).

 

I would say, be carful because there appears to be a pattern developing here...

[PhoenixRising8]

Last week came and went and now there's another valid reason not to leave just yet. The 27 year old son has had serious health problems since he was 9. He was hospitalized for more than a week this past April. He has been babied and coddled resulting in the most dependant 27 year old I am aware of. He is currently taking a technical course but with his fragile temperament may not succeed if MM leaves at the moment. Not sure why MM didn't think about that when he said he was ready to leave last week, but apparently he didn't. I guess his birthday celebration brought on some more guilt.

 

BS really brought out the heavy artillery for the birthday, right down to inviting the in laws to the celebration. Afterwards, she gave him a card, a two and a half page letter and a gift certificate for a weekend get away for two at a spa, despite the fact he told her he didn't want to go away with her.

 

The day after the birthday, there was an hour or two of guilt with me as we spoke on the phone but when I told him he should go try to make it work, he said no and showed up on my doorstep, with said letter in tow. He wanted me to read it and I did. She wrote about how she knew she wanted to marry him the moment she laid eyes on him, that he is the love of her life and she hopes he will give her the chance to spend the rest of their lives together. She also said how she reminisces about his parents all the time for their wisdom and love that resulted in such a moral, principled man. She talked about how her parents adored him and thought he was one in a million; how her siblings think he does for her and tolerates from her what most men wouldn't. She talks about what an amazing father and role model he is for their kids. She then talks about how she hasn't shown him her love and appreciation for years, hasn't said "I love you" or that he's important to her, that she's neglected him and taken him for granted. The one thing she did not draw attention to was any special moments or memories between the two of them, something I found very odd. In essence, she confirmed everything he's ever said about the state of their marriage in the last 3-5 years. Truthfully, I have not caught him in a lie to date.

 

I asked him why he shared a private letter from his wife with me and he said it's because being honest with me and not keeping any secrets from me was very important to him. When I said he was being dishonest and keeping secrets from her, he acknowledged that was true but that only shows how dead the marriage is. Leaving the marriage is about timing and the son makes the immediate timing not so great. She also asked again if he was having an emotional and/or physical affair which he again denied.

 

I want to believe him and believe in him but it's getting harder as time goes on. He is killing both of us in his attempt to "let her down gently". My January trip will be either the beginning or the end.

Edited November 13, 2018 by LilKatKat

[Amethyst68]

So what happened to NC? Just given up the idea completely?

 

The sheer disrespect of him giving you wife's letter to read was appalling, as was yours to read such a private document! You should have refused. That poor woman....

 

I think you know he's not going to leave on your timetable and you'll still be here bemoaning the fact this time next year!

[elaine567]

OMG that is just genius on his part.

The "dependent" adult son can be used for literally years as an excuse not to leave.

 

The sharing of the letter with you, his "one and only", was to keep you from hitting the roof... Now you feel included, warm and fuzzy... you have a common enemy. Job done.

NO wonder he feels so guilty, she loves the bones of him.

It is typical MM game playing. Did we all think you would have good news to report this week? Um... no...

 

I suggest enough is enough, stop waiting for him right now and by the time January comes around you will be a new refreshed and free woman going on holiday.

[BaileyB]

I can't imagine sharing my thoughts and feelings like that... and then, for my husband to share my words with another woman. That is so disrespectful.

 

As to letting her down gently, there is no such thing when you have shared your life with someone and you have children together.

 

This is brutal.

Edited November 13, 2018 by BaileyB

[PhoenixRising8]

Re read my post #163

 

He's a liar and a jerk.

 

The sooner you look at that evidencethe better off your future will bee...instead of listening to all his future faking - you might be able to move forward and actually have a fun future with a man that's available.

 

This guy is using you AND his wife.

 

He's never leaving her - she's figuring out how to be sure he stays home - which is working for her.

 

You may very well be right ...

[PhoenixRising8]

So what happened to NC? Just given up the idea completely?

 

The sheer disrespect of him giving you wife's letter to read was appalling, as was yours to read such a private document! You should have refused. That poor woman....

 

I think you know he's not going to leave on your timetable and you'll still be here bemoaning the fact this time next year!

 

Based on what I’m seeing on this board, I’m not the first to break NC at first try but thanks for your kind words and support. And no, I won’t be here a year from now bemoaning my fate but again thanks for your concern.

 

As for being given the letter to read and reading it, I guess I didn’t stop to think about it in the moment. I was more thinking he wanted to be open and honest which is why he was sharing. I guess some of us make imperfect decisions while some of us always make the right choices. Maybe being an OW, and never having been a BS results in this type of imperfection. But I reiterate, thanks for your words of encouragement.