Never thought I'd be an OW (long post)

[Mrs._December]

Your post literally brought me to tears. It’s hard to believe someone you love so deeply can knowingly hurt you so badly and keep on doing it.

I think sometimes you get too far into the forest and can no longer see the trees.

 

You have to reconcile with the fact that this isn't all about you.

 

My point is, this is how YOU feel after only a small amount of time having believed his lies and manipulation and thinking a lying, cheating, deceiving, selfish, self-absorbed man was actually a decent human being.

 

How do you think his wife feels? She has believed him to be the same "wonderful" man you thought he was for many more years than you've known him. How devastating do you think it was for HER to have to learn that he's one of the most vile and repugnant men she's ever met and that he's NOT the man she thought she'd married? If it's devastating for YOU to have to face, how do you think it is for her?

 

Why on earth she'd want to stay with this so-called man is simply beyond me because all he really deserves is to be kicked square in the ass right out the front door and let her lawyer pick his worthless carcass clean in divorce court. I still hope his wife comes to her senses.

[elaine567]

Why on earth she'd want to stay with this so-called man is simply beyond me because all he really deserves is to be kicked square in the ass right out the front door and let her lawyer pick his worthless carcass clean in divorce court. I still hope his wife comes to her senses.

 

 

I guess she stays "for the kids".

Two adults in their twenties who can't seem to fly the nest is probably a bit of a burden and a worry. She no doubt feels they NEED her to provide a stable home for them.

I guess a trip to Hawaii helped too...

[PhoenixRising8]

He’s called several times from Hawaii, while on vacation with his wife to tell me how much he loves me, misses me, is thinking of me and wants a future with me!!!

 

The vacation is going OK. They are cordial with one another but there’s nothing there. He sees that. He hopes she will also. She hasn’t tried to seduce him. He’s spending a lot of time with his friend Dick cycling while she spends time with Jane, their best friends they’re on vacation with. He’s been going to sleep early as he’s been so sleep deprived the last few months between work and personal. Poor baby? I just couldn’t take it anymore and told him he is exactly where he wants to be and it was his choice. No one put a gun to his head and forced him to go. Then I said enjoy your vacation and your wife. Goodbye. I was pretty annoyed. After calming down I texted him to say no more drama from me and that I’ve spent far too much time focusing on him and his needs. Being patient and understanding. Now it’s time for me to love me and focus on me. I can’t deal with being told he wants to be with me while his actions speak otherwise. It’s a obvious he wants to be with his wife. We aren’t the real deal.

 

Well doesn’t he just text back saying we are the real deal. All he wants is to just talk and he loves me and misses me so much!

 

Seriously, I’ve been pushing him away since my trip. It isn’t him that’s pushing. I know everyone says I should go completely NC but that isn’t what would work for me. I need to detach and build immunity and that’s what I’m doing. If I went totally NC I know I would wonder if I gave up too soon. I’m getting to see who he is. It still hurts but less than it would if I just stopped cold turkey. I’m building my library of negative personality traits to focus on and it is working. Not seeing him or talking every day isn’t as difficult as it was 6 months ago. I don’t think about him every minute. And his profession of love is really pi$$ing me off now.

 

I don’t get him. I thought when the OW pushes and becomes a liability in terms of nagging, pressure and demands, it’s the MM that pulls away. Not in this case. The more I pull away, the more he comes after me. SMH

[Artdeco]

Seriously, I’ve been pushing him away since my trip. It isn’t him that’s pushing. I know everyone says I should go completely NC but that isn’t what would work for me. I need to detach and build immunity and that’s what I’m doing.

 

 

Whether you’re aware of it or not, there’s still a glimmer of hope in you. That’s why you’re unable to go full NC. And I totally get it. It’s easier to detach slowly, knowing that the MM is still thinking of you and missing you. Him reaching out, while you’re more passive, gives you a certain sense of power. While I totally understand (from a logical point of view, and based on how the brain works (limbic system and such)) the benefits of full-on NC, full NC brings more pain short-term. A slow-fade / slow detachment approach is definitely the softer landing, and sometimes this works just as well, if not better, because it allows people to focus on other options and priorities without dealing with the acute pain.

[anika99]

I don’t get him. I thought when the OW pushes and becomes a liability in terms of nagging, pressure and demands, it’s the MM that pulls away. Not in this case. The more I pull away, the more he comes after me. SMH

 

I've seen plenty of OW here talk about how they tried to leave their MM but everytime they attempted to walk away the MM pursued them harder, promised them the sun and the moon, yet still would not leave their wife.

 

From seeing some of the stories from MM who can't/won't leave their wife I have gathered that they feel nothing but anxiety and confusion when it comes to making a decision. The thought of losing their OW gives them anxiety so if she tries to walk away he tries even harder to make her stay, begging her to wait just a little longer. It's not so much about being in love with the OW, it's being addicted to the affair and not being able to bear the anxiety he feels at seeing his addiction walk away.

 

Similarly he feels great anxiety at the thought of divorce and losing his wife and married life forever. It sounds like a great idea when he's playing lovey dovey with the OW but as soon as he goes home after spending time with the OW and sees his family then reality sets in and leaving doesn't sound like a good idea at all.

 

What these MM want more than anything is for everything to remain exactly as it is. Their fantasy is not to run away with the OW forever, nor is it to recommit to their wife and build a stronger marriage. In their dreamworld they get to have both the OW and their marriage and everyone is happy just getting a piece of him. They will never make a choice so someone else has to make the choice for him. Either the OW has to end the affair or the wife has to end the marriage otherwise this could go on forever and the MM would be perfectly fine with that.

[S2B]

{snip} I don’t get him. I thought when the OW pushes and becomes a liability in terms of nagging, pressure and demands, it’s the MM that pulls away. Not in this case. The more I pull away, the more he comes after me. SMH

 

Because you still haven’t fully stopped feeding his ego.

 

You still take his calls and text him while he’s on a romantic vacation with his wife.

 

And you really haven’t demanded anything.

 

So he still get his ego feed but he isn’t really required to change anything in his life.

 

Besides, it’s a lot of trouble to groom a new OW... why do all that when he can just check in and see if you’ll still take his calls that are full of lies?

Edited February 6, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[S2B]

He called today from Hawaii and I ended up hanging up on him. Don’t know if he’ll call or message again.

 

Why don’t you just block him completely?

 

He’s not adding ANY beauty to your life at this point.

 

He’s keeping you from moving forward.

[elaine567]

I don’t get him. I thought when the OW pushes and becomes a liability in terms of nagging, pressure and demands, it’s the MM that pulls away. Not in this case. The more I pull away, the more he comes after me. SMH

Because atm you are the only OW he has got and starting from scratch will be difficult and time consuming.

He is thus holding on like grim death.

[PhoenixRising8]

Because you still haven’t fully stopped feeding his ego.

 

You still take his calls and text him while he’s on a romantic vacation with his wife.

 

And you really haven’t demanded anything.

 

So he still get his ego feed but he isn’t really required to change anything in his life.

 

Besides, it’s a lot of trouble to groom a new OW... why do all that when he can just check in and see if you’ll still take his calls that are full of lies?

 

He says there’s nothing romantic about it. It’s just where they’ve always gone with their friends. They’ve now had a week together in romantic Hawaii. Here’s what’s missing: no posts or pictures by her on Facebook. She posted pictures of her birthday, his birthday, New Year’s Eve, airport pictures and vacation pictures from her 3 weeks with the daughter in August. But this trip .... nothing. The only posts are random animal videos and games. Who goes to Hawaii and spends time watching videos and playing dumb Facebook games?

 

Anyway, not my issue or concern. My only focus now is mastering the art of letting go. I won’t lie and say it’s easy but it is easier because since before Christmas we’ve only been in the same location for 2 weeks making communication and seeing each other difficult. That has been a blessing. It’s why I planned to be away from the holidays to mid January. I’ve been coming to terms with this and planning it since our birthdays in November. May not be everyone’s approach but I’m getting there.

[PhoenixRising8]

{snip} What these MM want more than anything is for everything to remain exactly as it is. Their fantasy is not to run away with the OW forever, nor is it to recommit to their wife and build a stronger marriage. In their dreamworld they get to have both the OW and their marriage and everyone is happy just getting a piece of him. They will never make a choice so someone else has to make the choice for him. Either the OW has to end the affair or the wife has to end the marriage otherwise this could go on forever and the MM would be perfectly fine with that.

 

Thanks for that explanation. It actually makes a lot of sense and gives me understanding I didn’t previously have. Very helpful.

Edited February 6, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[S2B]

He says there’s nothing romantic about it. It’s just where they’ve always gone with their friends. They’ve now had a week together in romantic Hawaii. Here’s what’s missing: no posts or pictures by her on Facebook. She posted pictures of her birthday, his birthday, New Year’s Eve, airport pictures and vacation pictures from her 3 weeks with the daughter in August. But this trip .... nothing. The only posts are random animal videos and games. Who goes to Hawaii and spends time watching videos and playing dumb Facebook games?

 

Anyway, not my issue or concern. My only focus now is mastering the art of letting go. I won’t lie and say it’s easy but it is easier because since before Christmas we’ve only been in the same location for 2 weeks making communication and seeing each other difficult. That has been a blessing. It’s why I planned to be away from the holidays to mid January. I’ve been coming to terms with this and planning it since our birthdays in November. May not be everyone’s approach but I’m getting there.

 

My hope is that YOU get strong enough to end it for yourself...for YOUR future!

 

No photos doesn’t signify much. In fact I had a really nice dinner last night with my kids for a birthday - I fully intended ahead of time to take photos while we were all together - I was enjoying it so much I forgot to get my phone out! When I got home I was kicking myself!

 

Do it for YOU KitKat.

 

You deserve better than anyone yanking your chain.

[mark clemson]

My personal opinion, FWIW:

 

Seriously, I’ve been pushing him away since my trip. ... I’m getting to see who he is. It still hurts but less than it would if I just stopped cold turkey. I’m building my library of negative personality traits to focus on and it is working. Not seeing him or talking every day isn’t as difficult as it was 6 months ago. I don’t think about him every minute. And his profession of love is really pi$$ing me off now.

 

It sounds like the limerence is fading. That's good - hopefully soon you'll be fully clear headed. Once you feel fully ready, total NC will probably become a good idea so you don't re-trigger it. Think keeping a list of negative traits is a great idea - I did it as well and it helped a lot.

 

 

I wish there were a pain pill that would make this go away.

 

Google "Tylenol to relieve emotional pain" or similar. May help a little. Be a bit careful if you start with it, though as acetominophen is one of the easiest OTC meds to overdose on.

 

Best of luck!

[PhoenixRising8]

My hope is that YOU get strong enough to end it for yourself...for YOUR future!

 

No photos doesn’t signify much. In fact I had a really nice dinner last night with my kids for a birthday - I fully intended ahead of time to take photos while we were all together - I was enjoying it so much I forgot to get my phone out! When I got home I was kicking myself!

 

Do it for YOU KitKat.

 

You deserve better than anyone yanking your chain.

 

May be no significance to no posts but it does seem odd given she posts vacations and special occasions regularly. Her vacation in August was full of posts and pictures. She posted pictures of their last trip to Hawaii more than 3 years ago (after which he moved out of the bedroom apparently) so it just seems odd that this time there is nothing.

 

I am working on closing this chapter. Yesterday I cancelled the cruise we had booked for later this year. Yes, we had a 2 week cruise booked. He doesn’t know I cancelled it. I see that as a step towards ending it. And I did it.

[Starswillshine]

May be no significance to no posts but it does seem odd given she posts vacations and special occasions regularly. Her vacation in August was full of posts and pictures. She posted pictures of their last trip to Hawaii more than 3 years ago (after which he moved out of the bedroom apparently) so it just seems odd that this time there is nothing.

 

I am working on closing this chapter. Yesterday I cancelled the cruise we had booked for later this year. Yes, we had a 2 week cruise booked. He doesn’t know I cancelled it. I see that as a step towards ending it. And I did it.

 

The fact that you are checking her Facebook tells you are still hoping. That you are reading into it is showing that you are still hoping.

 

You want to verify what he says. To see if he is a liar. Except... except.... he IS a liar and you know it. So ok, he FINALLY gets the balls to leave his wife. What then? How will you feel? 5 years down the road? Trust me... you will spend your life wondering if he is now lying to you.

 

So be careful with that.

 

Who knows why she has or hasn't posted anything. You never could know. You can only speculate. And it may or may not be truth. We all do it. I've done it, too. Trying to read into every detail.trying to figure out what is going on. No relationship should ever be like this.

[S2B]

May be no significance to no posts but it does seem odd given she posts vacations and special occasions regularly. Her vacation in August was full of posts and pictures. She posted pictures of their last trip to Hawaii more than 3 years ago (after which he moved out of the bedroom apparently) so it just seems odd that this time there is nothing.

 

I am working on closing this chapter. Yesterday I cancelled the cruise we had booked for later this year. Yes, we had a 2 week cruise booked. He doesn’t know I cancelled it. I see that as a step towards ending it. And I did it.

 

That’s a great way to take action!

 

Good job! Keep moving forward... don’t look back. :-)

[BaileyB]

Oh, I agree... you are still hoping...

 

You are still hoping because if you weren’t, you wouldn’t be answering his calls. You wouldn’t be an interested listener when he tells you that he has not had any physical contact with his wife during their holiday. You also wouldn’t be stalking is wife’s social media.

 

I mean, who takes a call from their “(ex)boyfriend” when he is on holiday with his wife? Who even has the audacity to make that call...

 

I think you keep contact in part because of your ego. I think a part of you enjoys hearing him tell you that he misses you and that he wants you... You do have the upper hand now, you have the control when previously he has had all the control, and that feels good.

 

I think you are also still in contact because you want to know what is happening between these two... you want to know how things are going, you want to know if life is not good for him, and you want to know if/when they start to wind down because you potentially want to be available to swoop in if/when they do decide to separate.

 

I say this because I have a friend who leads a very interesting life filled with drama. It’s not healthy for me, to be dragged into her drama... but, it took me a while to go NC. I didn’t want to completely walk away and end all contact because - then I wouldn’t know what was happening in her life! There is a part of me that is interested in seeing how this never ending drama turns out...

 

You say that you don’t want to go NC because you will always wonder what might have happened. Well, as starswillshine says, imagine that he does leave his wife and you win your man — are you ready to wonder every day for the rest of your life if he will go back to his wife, or if he has another woman on the side when he is a little late getting home...

 

You need to cut contact with this man - he is NOT WORTH IT! But, you are not ready to do that yet... so, you will continue to pick at the scab, again and again, for as long as you need...

Edited February 6, 2019 by BaileyB

[elaine567]

I think you keep contact in part because of your ego. I think a part of you enjoys hearing him tell you that he misses you and that he wants you... You do have the upper hand now, you have the control when previously he has had all the control, and that feels good.

Yes it is ego and the competitive spirit. Winning is important. The wife cannot be seen to win.

 

But control I do not think so.

What is really different here than any of the other OWs sitting at home alone whilst their MM wines and dines, celebrates and parties and goes on holiday with his wife?

His life continues on regardless whilst the OW ties herself in knots trying to be understanding, trying not to mind, trying to keep up the hope that it is all worth it...

It is par for the course.

It is still fairly new for Lilkat so he still needs to wrap it up in fancy words and promises, 2 years down the line he won't bother... he will go on holiday and Lilkat will just be expected to be happy about it...

 

There has been a shift here.

I believe Lilkat despite the protestations is starting to accept the role of the OW.

[PhoenixRising8]

Bailey and Elaine:

 

Thank you for your perspective. Please allow me to enlighten you on what I am actually thinking and feeling.

 

Taking his calls has nothing to do with stroking my own ego. In fact, it is bringing me to the realization that in the last few months, something has changed. I am fairly confident he didn’t tell his wife and kids he wanted to leave the marriage just to be a prick. At that time, I believe he did want to. But over time he realized she would put up with his shenanigans and obviously I did also, in the hope he would finally summon the courage. Now when he’s with me it’s great and when he’s with her, she’s more attentive and it obviously isn’t so bad so why change anything. I had to come to this conclusion to be able to detach and let go. Had I not gone through this process, I would have always wondered “what if?”

 

I am not stalking her Facebook to see how things are. I am trying to determine what he’s lying about. In the almost year we’ve known each other, I haven’t caught him in one single lie. He is either being really honest or he is extremely accomplished but lies eventually are outed so he may have been more honest than I give him credit for.

 

I am not trying to win anything at this point. I don’t even know if I did win that I would win anything worthwhile. Ive acknowledged before that I can’t compete against 30 years of history, marriage certificate, finances, kids and the optics of upstanding family man, although I think the latter is not what it was as she has told many friends about his behaviour and her suspicions. She has to do nothing to keep him when he isn’t making a move. So I’m not stupid and I haven’t buried my head in the sand. I know the score.

 

As for accepting my role as the OW, no I am not. In the first 7 or 8 months I did not feel like the OW, unless the O stood for only. That isn’t the case since mid November. I don’t want and won’t accept holidays, special occasions and vacation alone. But I loved him like no one ever, I still do. So I had to come to the acceptance phase of reality so that I didn’t regret and wonder if I pulled the plug without giving him a chance. And that’s where I am. I gave it a chance.

 

When he returns I will tell him we are over. One of 3 things will happen. He will return home and accept his marriage as is or maybe he will recommit, who knows. Or he will go back and eventually seek out a new AP. Or he will realize he made a mistake letting us go. I’m not anticipating the third possibility, not in the least.

 

So thanks for your analysis but you’ve drawn the wrong conclusions.

[Starswillshine]

Kat, you have actually reconfirmed the analysis. You just packaged it differently.

[Starswillshine]

Also to add...

 

You said you havent found one lie? Are you kidding? Does he tell his wife when he visits you? Or that he called you on their vacation and tells you that he loves you? Wait... that he is on this vacation in itself is a lie as he told you he was leaving. He lies, you just justify them. One day you'll be completely free of this situation and you'll realize all the mental gymnastics you have done.

 

It isnt a judgement. I have done the same. And it isnt about morality or anything else... it should be about self preservation.

[PhoenixRising8]

Kat, you have actually reconfirmed the analysis. You just packaged it differently.

 

The implication was that I am trying to find ways and rationale to stay and that isn’t the case.

[Aloha123]

Wow I had been following this thread for the past month or so but never went back and read it from the beginning.

Having just done so, I do feel compelled to commend you for the great progress you have made over the past 6 months, particularly since January. And you had quite a lot of progress to make seeing as you literally thought that you would end up together as recently as when you started this thread. I think the progress you have made is actually a great testament to how powerful this forum is in snapping us OW out of our delusional thinking.

I also am in the minority here in being of the opinion that LC (and engaging in heightened "awareness" and critical thinking) is certainly better than the alternative if you don't feel you have it in you to do NC yet, and may be an important first step. Two steps up one step back, progress not perfection, those are all a normal part of trying to break an addiction.

That being said, I can't help but think that you are still too invested in trying to figure out where his head is at, how the vacation is going, what signs indicate that he is still into you, what he's doing, what his WIFE is doing etc. Ultimately, you will not heal until you step away from that, and realize that even under a best case scenario all he is trying to do is maintain or get things back to the status quo (as one of the prior posters so brilliantly pointed out).

Man, if there is one thing my MM ever did right, it is in not misleading me to ever think that he would leave his wife. It's painful enough as it is! I honestly can't even imagine how much more despondent I would be at this point if that had been the case. For instance, by this point I have lived through (and followed closely along on facebook) at least a dozen vacations he has happily taken with his wife, and have, for better or worse, developed a thicker skin (at a heavy price to my self-esteem). So I do give you credit for not accepting the crumbs and playing second fiddle to a happy marriage, not tolerating being put on the backburner, etc., nearly as much as I have.

[BaileyB]

The implication was that I am trying to find ways and rationale to stay and that isn’t the case.

 

If that wasn’t the case, you would end all contact.

 

As Aloha says, you are still way too invested in this man and what’s happening with his marriage. When you are really done with this affair and ready to let him go, you will get to a place of indifference. You are not there yet. You will continue to answer his calls and check the social media until you get there... I do believe you will get there, but you are not done yet.

[PhoenixRising8]

I know my heart is invested still which is why my head is constantly looking for affirmation it is right hence the LC vs NC. I'd rather do LC than threaten NC and not follow through. That would be worse. I am slowly working through it. My head is slowly winning but it is a process. It isn't that he's pulling away. Far from it. It's me looking for reasons to do so.

 

I will admit he isn't making it easy calling from Hawaii. Today he said he wants us to go out for dinner on the 14th. Yes, the 14th! No idea how he expects to accomplish that but I suppose if he can ditch her on her birthday, anything is possible.

 

I really don't know which of us is the bigger fool: the BS for putting up with his shenanigans or me for not getting over him given his seeming indecision. There is a part of me that wonders still why you tell your wife and kids you want out of your marriage if you don't. Then you don't because of guilt and obligation and let's face it, it's easier to stay, even if you are unhappy. My head says it doesn't matter the reason because if he hasn't, the reason doesn't matter and in the process he is being cruel to 2 women. So yes, this is what I am trying to focus on. All the negatives. It's the only way I will convince my heart and create a softer landing. I don't want to be in pain so I'm trying to detach using every piece of information I can get. It's working, maybe not as fast as I'd like but I am getting there. This vacation is definitely accelerating the process.

[BaileyB]

I know my heart is invested still which is why my head is constantly looking for affirmation it is right hence the LC vs NC. I'd rather do LC than threaten NC and not follow through.

 

I understand it’s a process. I also understand that this is just more justification for why you maintain contact... even if you are not ready to accept and admit that fully.

 

This guy has balls - he leaves to go on a vacation with his family and expects to get together with you upon his return, on Valentine’s Day. That takes nerve.

 

I wonder when I read your posts, where is your anger? I know you say that you have been angry with him, but seriously... if a man did this to me, I don’t care who he is or how much I once loved him, I would be tempted to do serious bodily injury... (metaphorically speaking, of course).

 

You still put up with such crap from this man, and I wonder why you allow this. The only possible answer is that you are still hanging on, hoping that he will come to his senses and pick you. The thing is, I don’t know that there is any such thing as a “soft landing” in this kind of situation... at a certain point, you will need to quit fooling yourself and just rip the bandaid off...