BaileyB Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 And that's why this is so upsetting. Because even though he has confirmed for himself that the ship has sunk, he still may not abandon it. He may try, as he did in September but end up staying because of "guilt and obligation " - his words, not tonight, but in the past. Words mean nothing. He I said currently on holiday with his wife, taking a picture of the two of them in each other’s arms... that is all that matters. You continue to cling to the fantasy you have created. Not ready to let him go, despite what you have said... words mean nothing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 Of course he can't wait to see you, you are going to fall into his arms sobbing with relief, covering him with kisses and he is going to get a huge ego boost. But that means absolutely nothing as regards the situation with his wife... That merely confirms to him, that despite disrespecting you so badly by blatantly going on a "love" trip with his wife, you will still be there waiting patiently for him... I went on 2 to 3 vacations with my ex every year, including several month long cruises over the years but they were anything but love vacations. We enjoyed the trips and truthfully, it was the one time our marriage was actually bearable. He behaved while on vacation but there was still nothing there. No real conversation, no connection and definitely no sex. Then when we got home, back to separate bedrooms, limited conversation and his antics. All that to say, people behave one way when others are around but it's what happens behind closed doors that matters. I won't ever know if they really did keep to their sides of the bed. Maybe they had mad passionate sex every night for all I know. I will say, he can resist sex if he wants to. Week before he left we had a major disagreement. I won't say fight because we don't ever raise our voices to one another, name call or do any of the other nasty things I consider fighting. He showed up to talk. I was really angry but very restrained and I decided to "test" him. To see if it really was all about the sex. I did everything but put on a sexy negligee. Over the course of a couple of hours I could not seduce him. He actually said he was more interested in sorting us out than spending time in bed which wouldn't solve anything. We all make assumptions based on the little that is written in a post, but we don't know everything. Sometimes things can be taken at face value, sometimes they can't. Maybe I give the benefit if the doubt too much. All I know is I am at the end of my rope. There is more pain than pleasure. Will I see him? Yes. Will I fall into his arms, thankful and relieved he's back? No. Since mid December I've been telling him I'm nearing the end of the line. I'm pretty sure he knows I am. I've told him I consider Hawaii a crossroad, a make or break and that's what it is. He either starts putting it in motion or he doesn't. I either stay or leave. My decision is dependant on his. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 Words mean nothing. He I said currently on holiday with his wife, taking a picture of the two of them in each other’s arms... that is all that matters. You continue to cling to the fantasy you have created. Not ready to let him go, despite what you have said... words mean nothing. Think what you will Bailey. He had one arm on her shoulder. He wasn't leaning into her in the least. It's a snap shot in a tiny fraction of time. Maybe Jane did insist on taking a picture. I don't know, I wasn't there. But make no mistake, I am clinging to nothing. That's why this is so hard. I know I am nearing my breaking point. I have told him our shelf life is limited and Hawaii was a crossroad for me. My daughter is moving back home in 2 weeks. Having her with me will give me strength and support. I can't do this forever. It's too painful. I'm not going to waste years like I did in a dead marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) I don’t really see him abandoning you completely. I think he does minimal effort to make sure you don’t go completely away but also so you don’t expect much from him.<snip> I know he won't abandon me. My angst is the result of my dealing with MY walking away. As for the comments about shelves and toys and lack of play, I have no clue what that means. The LC was initiated by me, not him. Edited February 10, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Truncate quote Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) Posting and analyzing and getting helpful and not so helpful comments has been my way of processing what I need to do. I know what the answer is and that's why this weekend has been so difficult. Edited February 10, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator reply to deleted post Link to post Share on other sites
Aloha123 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Wow - I just had an amazing insight, at least for my own situation. The obsessive thinking, the ruminating, the exclusive focus on something outside of ourselves (and on somebody who is literally not even physically present), THAT is the illness. That is as much of the problem as the person we are so fixated on. And it's what keeps us stuck. And maybe that's why this thread has seemed slightly "enabling" to me at times, because we are actually allowing you to indulge in what is the very problem to begin with -- the obsession with the married man, the pre-occupation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bittersweetie Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) Posting and analyzing and getting helpful and not so helpful comments has been my way of processing what I need to do. Kat, I think Aloha has a point regarding your over-analysis regarding MM. But I don't think that's unusual...I did it (the time I spent on a one paragraph email...good grief) and I've seen it on these boards over and over again. So here's my story...I had a best girlfriend, who was like a sister to me, and my roommate. Just after college she suddenly ended our friendship in a very painful way, and ghosted me. For 15+ years I tried to figure her out...why did she do it? What did I do to deserve that? Why why why? After xMM ghosted me twice, and then having a d-day, I was thinking about xMM and the WHYs and I realized: was I going to waste another 15 years of mental energy on this guy? On my old girlfriend? The answer was NO. I decided to let the WHYs go. I was never going to know why either of them did what they did, and that WAS OKAY. The reality was, I thought if I knew WHY, if I understood their actions, it would make the pain go away. But it didn't...it just made me hold on to the pain longer. Is it easy to let the whys go? Heck no. But in the rebuilding of my own self respect and rebuilding of my marriage I knew if I wanted to move forward in a healthy way I had to let go. So I did it, and it was like weight off my shoulders, especially the whys with my old girlfriend. I held on to that pain much longer than necessary, at a detriment to myself. Analyzing can be helpful, but maybe you should turn the focus of it onto yourself rather than xMM. I know it's not easy but using your mental energy on yourself is much more productive than wasting it on MM and what he does. You are the priority here, you and your healing and your future. Hope this helps in some way...sorry for the rambling post. Edited February 10, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator reply to deleted post 1 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 I know he won't abandon me. My angst is the result of my dealing with MY walking away. As for the comments about shelves and toys and lack of play, I have no clue what that means. The LC was initiated by me, not him. But why hand all of YOUR power over to him? To what he does or doesn’t do? Why not take all of YOUR power back and begin to live? The toys/shelf comparison was that you are sidelined now - while he goes on living his life with his family as he does (while you’re waiting and waiting)...and taking the toy down to play was referencing him spending very little time paying you attention. He texts - that takes all of a few seconds - calls take a few minutes. I know you initiated it... but I think it was to acknowledge that he hadn’t taken any action to end the marriage, am I correct? Have a boundary and stick to it KitKat... decide when the final day will be - IF he doesn’t file for divorce by ____ date I am never contacting him again and I will begin this NEW life knowing that he’s never leaving her. That boundary is a decision you make for YOUR own well being. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 Wow - I just had an amazing insight, at least for my own situation. The obsessive thinking, the ruminating, the exclusive focus on something outside of ourselves (and on somebody who is literally not even physically present), THAT is the illness. That is as much of the problem as the person we are so fixated on. And it's what keeps us stuck. And maybe that's why this thread has seemed slightly "enabling" to me at times, because we are actually allowing you to indulge in what is the very problem to begin with -- the obsession with the married man, the pre-occupation. You are correct. It is a realization I came to earlier this week. After a call on Wednesday I texted him to say I have spent far too much time trying to figure out what is going on in his mind that I've neglected me. I also said I am now going to focus on me and what is in my mind and I will let him know when I figure that out. It's the reason this weekend has been so difficult. I've come to realize that I've felt myself to be not in control of my life waiting for him to decide where I go. Truth is, I abdicated that control. I can control my own life but that also means giving up most likely. I've never been a quitter. It's served me well in my professional life. It has also almost destroyed me personally as I stayed in my marriage far longer than I should have. I don't have another 10 or more years to waste. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 Analyzing can be helpful, but maybe you should turn the focus of it onto yourself rather than xMM. I know it's not easy but using your mental energy on yourself is much more productive than wasting it on MM and what he does. You are the priority here, you and your healing and your future. Hope this helps in some way...sorry for the rambling post. Yes you are correct. See my post to Aloha. I've already said as much to him. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 Why not take all of YOUR power back and begin to live? I know you initiated it... but I think it was to acknowledge that he hadn’t taken any action to end the marriage, am I correct? Have a boundary and stick to it KitKat... decide when the final day will be - IF he doesn’t file for divorce by ____ date I am never contacting him again and I will begin this NEW life knowing that he’s never leaving her. That boundary is a decision you make for YOUR own well being. I have acknowledged this week that I have given up the power to him and told him I am taking it back. When you say I initiated it, I'm not sure what you are referring to. I have decided what the final day is and unless he has taken action that will be it. I can't continue to neglect everything else, particularly myself. My daughter moving back in 2 weeks will be a huge relief and support. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 I’m glad if you have decided to make yourself your priority instead of him. Getting some balance back is key - that pendulum has swung way too far in HIS favor... Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 But why hand all of YOUR power over to him? To what he does or doesn’t do? . I just reread your post. Did you think I was trying deal with him walking away? When I said MY walking away, that was not a typo. I meant ME. I know he won't walk away. He's unable to make a decision on which woman he wants so he keeps the status quo and both of us, by our acquiescence allow him to do so. She tolerates his changed behaviour and put up with his overnight disappearances and I put up with his indecisiveness. He has no incentive to decide. BS isn't going to rock the boat. He will do nothing because he doesn't have to. There's only one other person who can change the dynamic and that's me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 I just reread your post. Did you think I was trying deal with him walking away? When I said MY walking away, that was not a typo. I meant ME. I know he won't walk away. He's unable to make a decision on which woman he wants so he keeps the status quo and both of us, by our acquiescence allow him to do so. She tolerates his changed behaviour and put up with his overnight disappearances and I put up with his indecisiveness. He has no incentive to decide. BS isn't going to rock the boat. He will do nothing because he doesn't have to. There's only one other person who can change the dynamic and that's me. No, I thought you were trying to deal with him NOT walking away... A lot of men avoid changing their married life. A lot of men will never truly walk away... even when they leave they still stay tied to that family unit that’s familiar. A lot of men avoid conflict... to keep that status quo. A lot of men have no strength and courage to do better/ to build the life they want - they simply go along with the life they already have. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 A lot of men avoid conflict... to keep that status quo. A lot of men have no strength and courage to do better/ to build the life they want - they simply go along with the life they already have. well who knew? I didn't. I used to be conflict avoidant but now I will create conflict to solve a problem, if there's no other way. I've poked and prodded him over the last 3 months, to the point of him being on the verge of tears. I've pushed him away hoping he'd either decide he couldn't stay with me or be without me. In the end, he just avoids. He says he now is ready to do what he needs to. Who knows what that means. If he's gone more than 10 minutes, she's texting to know where he is. Our call yesterday was exactly 10 minutes and she was texting. She's keeping him on a short leash. Since she's the one with doggie license I guess he'll likely stay on the leash. As he says, time will tell. But not a lot of time will pass. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Do what he needs to do? Why not ask for him to be specific about what that means exactly? And while you’re at it - ask him to be specific about exactly what action HE is taking to get to that goal. Write it down as he says it... if it’s not clear and concise - there is no plan. Without a plan of ACTION - nothing ever changes. He’s still being hugely evasive. Hugely! Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 Do what he needs to do? Why not ask for him to be specific about what that means exactly? And while you’re at it - ask him to be specific about exactly what action HE is taking to get to that goal. Write it down as he says it... if it’s not clear and concise - there is no plan. Without a plan of ACTION - nothing ever changes. He’s still being hugely evasive. Hugely! That's a conversation to be had when he's back. As I said, between BS and Dick and Jane, they stick to him like glue. Mornings are bike rides with Dick, then lunch, then the gang at the pool, then dinner. That's the way it goes. It's surprising he's actually managed half a dozen calls. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 I've poked and prodded him over the last 3 months, to the point of him being on the verge of tears. I've pushed him away hoping he'd either decide he couldn't stay with me or be without me. In the end, he just avoids. He says he now is ready to do what he needs to. Who knows what that means. I have never had to prod and push any man to be with me and I guess that would do little for my self esteem, if I had had to. I am not sure how I would feel about such a man either. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 I have never had to prod and push any man to be with me and I guess that would do little for my self esteem, if I had had to. I am not sure how I would feel about such a man either. I haven't poked and prodded him to be with me. I've pushed him to deal with his indecision. Call it free counselling. Link to post Share on other sites
BTDT2012 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 LKK, I feel badly for you. It's in your power to simply tell him to come back to you when he has filed for divorce. While you are over-analyzing his actions, he is living his life. I think that somewhere deep down, you are afraid to be alone. Whether or not you acknowledge it, you have put your life on hold waiting for him to make a decision. And why would he make a decision, knowing that despite your words, your actions say you are still there waiting. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) LKK, I feel badly for you. It's in your power to simply tell him to come back to you when he has filed for divorce. While you are over-analyzing his actions, he is living his life. I think that somewhere deep down, you are afraid to be alone. Whether or not you acknowledge it, you have put your life on hold waiting for him to make a decision. And why would he make a decision, knowing that despite your words, your actions say you are still there waiting. Hence why this weekend has been so difficult. Since December I have been trying to detach in the event HE walks away. I have recently realized that it will have to be me. It would have been easier if he had ended it but he really doesn't want to recommit to his marriage it seems. Then I would have no choice but to move on. Two things about me: I'm not a quitter and I've never lost a man to another woman, but then we weren't talking about married people. The married dynamic is a lot different from the single one. He isn't mine to lose. Edited February 10, 2019 by LilKatKat Link to post Share on other sites
Aloha123 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Hence why this weekend has been so difficult. Since December I have been t Two things about me: I'm not a quitter and I've never lost a man to another woman, but then we weren't talking about married people. The married dynamic is a lot different from the single one. He isn't mine to lose. Well the good news is that since you have a lot of resolve in your personality, you can now use that to your advantage to resolve to move on from him, and "not quit" on that. Also, you are 100% right that he isn't your to lose. We OW have such egos don't we though. It's such a competition for his affection, which is great for those fleeting times that we get it from him and horrible for all those times we don't . You are right to try to detach your ego from the situation. It's more about him than it is about you (Although, you still should also stop trying to figure him out!) Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Hence why this weekend has been so difficult. Since December I have been trying to detach in the event HE walks away. I have recently realized that it will have to be me. It would have been easier if he had ended it but he really doesn't want to recommit to his marriage it seems. Then I would have no choice but to move on. Two things about me: I'm not a quitter and I've never lost a man to another woman, but then we weren't talking about married people. The married dynamic is a lot different from the single one. He isn't mine to lose. But he has recommitted to his marriage. His actions prove that. His vacation proves that. His inaction to leave her proves that. He just likes knowing you are there... waiting and waiting... The main thing you would be quitting in this situation is - being used and helping a MM cheat on his wife. In this case it great to quit! Kind of like when someone quits smoking... they are better off without it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 But he has recommitted to his marriage. His actions prove that. His vacation proves that. His inaction to leave her proves that. He just likes knowing you are there... waiting and waiting... The main thing you would be quitting in this situation is - being used and helping a MM cheat on his wife. In this case it great to quit! Kind of like when someone quits smoking... they are better off without it. My definition of recommitting means no third party. He has refused to do this so I guess I have to. I went on plenty of vacations with the ex and it meant nothing. I had a vacation planned for September with the ex but it was only his actions with our daughter that put an end to that plan. Likewise this Hawaii plan was in the works before we even met. Just the flights hadn’t been confirmed. I’m not saying he hasn’t recommitted, just that it’s pretty shallow while he still is involved in an affair. Link to post Share on other sites
Vivir Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I can control my own life but that also means giving up most likely. I've never been a quitter. It's served me well in my professional life. It has also almost destroyed me personally as I stayed in my marriage far longer than I should have. I don't have another 10 or more years to waste. LilKat, you have already clarified what you meant by what you wrote here, but it got me to thinking... I also had this problem, thinking that I had given up on xMM. I had to re-frame my thoughts. Thinking of what I decided to do (stop responding) not as quitting or giving up but as instead correcting a wrong action is the way I began to re-frame my thought on this matter. well who knew? I didn't. I used to be conflict avoidant but now I will create conflict to solve a problem, if there's no other way. I didn't know either, but I do now. And so do you! Creating conflict to solve this problem seems to me to be a great way to start your journey back to SELF! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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