Never thought I'd be an OW (long post)

[BaileyB]

it’s hard to believe he would be so blatant and careless if he had done this before with no intention of leaving. You’d think he would be more careful and discreet.

 

You would think, wouldn’t you? The fact that he isn’t being discrete or respectful to his wife and he mother of his children - what does that tell you about this man... try to step outside of yourself right now and consider, what does that tell you about his character?

 

My daughter actually likes MM. she isn’t thrilled he hasn’t left but understands there may be reasons at the moment. She’s back home April so I believe I will be in a better frame of mind, having her support.

 

With kindness, is it really fair to you to expect your daughter to provide emotional support to you IN YOUR AFFAIR with a married man? What are you teaching your daughter about healthy relationships, respecting boundaries, what she should expect from a man, and how she should be in a relationship and still keep her self respect? I know, she is a young woman... but, she is watching you and learning from you. At this point, I would say she is learning what NOT to do, by your example.

Edited February 20, 2019 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

Yes, why is it you keep wondering why his wife is staying? When you are sticking around for a good bit less?

 

You met the man on a dating website. Yeah, this isnt some great wonderful man. He deliberately set out for an affair.

 

And that’s the thing - all this drama over a man who is by all accounts, not a good man. He deliberately set out to meet a woman and have an extramarital affair. What he is doing to his wife is cruel. He is staying in his marriage and sneaking around with another woman because he doesn’t have the courage to end it - lest he be perceived as “the bad guy.” So, to appease his guilt, he seeks comfort and affection in the arms of another woman... A woman who he strings along, future faking and offering little more than a few “I love you’s” and a series of broken promises...

 

I mean, this is not a cardiologist who saves lives everyday, supports his mother, and travels to third world countries caring for children who don’t have access to medical care... This is not a man who cares for his wife through her illness, and is now supporting their children after her passing... This is a proven adulterer, who has lied and broken every promise he ever made to his wife and children, and is now lying and breaking every promise he has made to you Kat.

Edited February 20, 2019 by BaileyB

[S2B]

He is not discreet.

 

Any man on a website to cheat is not discreet.

 

He wanted a hook up... not a divorce.

 

If he was interested in a divorce he would have gotten it finalized before going on that website.

 

He may have figured he needed to lie to you more as the affair progressed... to keep you around...and it has worked. So he will keep making it work (for HIM) as long as you believe those lies he keeps telling you.

[anika99]

I think when he came over to see you right after his Hawaii trip - that was his way of making sure you’re sticking around after treating you terribly.

 

Then you slept with him on top of that...

 

He thinks you don’t have the requirements to leave him that you’ve stated.

 

 

He set that bar even lower and you have stayed for now.

 

Do you see the game he is good at?

 

Yep. All that has happened over the last 5 months is that you have lowered your expectations. You think you are getting stronger but I actually think you sounded stronger a couple of months ago. At least then it sounded like you had a line in the sand. If he dared go to Hawaii you would walk. Now it's all 'oh we'll just see what happens. Maybe I will walk, maybe when I have my daughter's support in April my frame of mind will improve. I'm just going along for whatever' You don't sound stronger, you sound weaker. I bet if we asked you back in October if you would still be waiting in April for your MM to leave after a 2 week getaway to Hawaii with his wife you're answer would have been "Oh Hell No!!" Now it's just "well we'll see what happens, sigh" You sound so resigned and apathetic compared to a couple of months ago.

[elaine567]

I also think you sound a whole lot weaker.

Your "fixed" deadlines have been pushed back one by one, until it is now April...???

April like all the rest, is YOUR deadline, not his.

He doesn't care, why would he?

You are a pushover, he tested you to the max and you fell back into line...

I guess long years of living with a certified narcissist, has shaped you into the perfect OW.

He gives you some dried up breadcrumbs and you tie yourself into knots trying to believe it is cake.

[BaileyB]

I agree, your words say that you are working through the situation with your counsellor and figuring out what you want to do, but your actions say that you have lowered your expectations and accepted the role of OW. And because of that, you most definitely appear weaker.

 

You used to be so firm in your conviction that this was a great love affair and that it was only a matter of time... Now, you appear to be resigned to the fact that it’s going to be a long haul...

 

A woman who shares her relationship struggles and seeks emotional support from her daughter during her affair is a very weak woman indeed. With all that your daughter has suffered from your ex-husband, why would you want to involve her in your current drama? As I’ve said before, is that really fair to her?

 

I’m not saying these things to be hurtful. I would urge you to step outside yourself and consider this from someone else’s perspective. You are losing yourself here... in fact, I would suggest that you were not in a healthy and strong position when this whole affair started. The only way you will get your strength back is to take it back, for yourself. It does not come from this other man. You will not find it from your daughter. You need to find it, within yourself. And, you can not do that when you are over-involved with this other man and his marriage. To use the addiction analogy, it’s like an individual suggesting that they are working on their self control and trying to be a better person, while they continue to drink... it’s just not going to work.

Edited February 20, 2019 by BaileyB

[S2B]

I thought your deadline was January (although you weren’t clear).

 

What is your deadline now?

 

Spell it out here so we can help you to stick to a boundary if he doesn’t file for divorce.

 

A boundary is there to help YOU. That’s why it’s important to honor it. It helps so people aren’t allowed to treat you like trash. But you gotta stick to that agreement you make with yourself!

[georgia girl]

LKK,

 

Perhaps what we are all saying is that sometimes outsiders can see/identify something that is wrong for us even when we - the person in the situation - firmly believes we are doing alright.

 

I actually feel so badly for you. Your relationship with MM isn’t to me at all what a loving, affirming relationship looks like. You say you can’t count on him, it can you really? A real partner would be there for you, not promising to be there for you and explaining again and again why he “can’t.” A real partner would make sure you were never put in second place. Instead, he would be introducing you to friends and colleagues. If you wanted, you’d be having people over for dinner on a Friday night or going out for a quiet, romantic dinner on Saturday.

 

A real partner builds a future with you. You have to compromise over wall colors, when to get a pet and where to go on vacation, but he’s there, right alongside you everyday. When times get tough, he is still there. When times are easy and fun, he’s still there. He becomes your constant... the guy you build a life with, a shared history, family and friends.

 

With the experience of your parents and your husband, you sound like you have never had anyone really treat you well. So MM may very well be treating you the best you have been treated. But you sound like an amazing and strong woman and I know you deserve better. I so wish you could see what we see and could kick this guy to the curb so that you would be free to find a really good partner - the kind you deserve.

 

Remember that love is kind, patient, honest, generous and not angry or jealous. That love makes you feel whole and safe. And if anyone in your life isn’t bringing that to the table, please, please be strong enough to walk away. The hurt you will experience now will be well worth the future that awaits.

 

We only get one life. Thank this guy for being in your life and giving you the strength to move on from your marriage but then let him go. He has served his purpose. You have a new life to build.

 

Hugs to you!

Gg

[PhoenixRising8]

You are not going to get a clear head as long as you remain in contact with the MM and remain in this affair. You said yourself that your thinking cleared a little while he was on vacation. Thats because of limited contact and no physical contact. Now that the affair is full fledged back on all your level headed thinking has flown out the window. He and his lies are seriously clouding your judgement.

 

I’m not sure I agree with this. I’m still of the same mindset I was during my and his absence: I know that this is going nowhere fast. I know what I don’t like about him or the affair. I just don’t know why I seem to not be able to pull the trigger yet.

[PhoenixRising8]

Yes, why is it you keep wondering why his wife is staying? When you are sticking around for a good bit less?

 

Look at what he has done. Promised he is leaving yet went on a romantic trip. Yet you are believing his lies he is slinging your way that are SO obvious. You have so much less skin in the game. The lies he tells you that you buy, imagine what sort of lies he is telling his wife. And she has much more reason to want to believe him. She has a family with him, a life with him, her financial security depends on him. What exactly you have that keeps you holding on? A hope that maybe you'll be together?

 

You met the man on a dating website. Yeah, this isnt some great wonderful man. He deliberately set out for an affair. To make his life more enjoyable. For some extra. Yeah, you decided you wanted more, he certainly hasn't proven that.

 

Why stick around for a good bit less? Very good question. Until mid November I was his priority over BS and home. He was always with me, always calling and texting when at work or at home. Then we started to see each other less because he was so busy at work, same excuse he gave her for not being around. It’s what made me believe he actress leaving. But a lot has changed and increasingly I am feeling like the OW who gets the crumbs. I used to feel like the only woman.

 

Yes he promised to leave in October, then November, then after the holidays, end of February/March and now another 3-6 months when the kids are finished their school year and he gets her financially sorted out. Will likely find some other reason after that. I have started to wonder even IF he did leave how long before a hangnail sends him running back?

 

And yes we did meet through a dating website but I never held it against him. How could I unless I were being a hypocrite. We both said we had no intention of changing our home situation. But I now believe he really meant that and I was just kidding myself. I wanted out, I just didn’t have the guts.

 

And yes, he lies to her daily. Mostly I think he does tell me the truth because I do verify wherever possible. Like where he is. Two things he has told me I see now are lies: that he’s leaving and when. Even if he lied about nothing else, those are huge.

[PhoenixRising8]

With kindness, is it really fair to you to expect your daughter to provide emotional support to you IN YOUR AFFAIR with a married man? What are you teaching your daughter about healthy relationships, respecting boundaries, what she should expect from a man, and how she should be in a relationship and still keep her self respect? I know, she is a young woman... but, she is watching you and learning from you. At this point, I would say she is learning what NOT to do, by your example.

 

When I say support, I don’t mean discussing things with her or making her privy to details. I can tell you that it feels much different when she comes home to visit. I feel much more at peace and myself. It’s very difficult coming home to a very empty big house. When she’s around I have smiles and hugs and conversation. Makes it easier to go through the day. That’s all I want from her. Just her presence. It’s all the support I need.

[PhoenixRising8]

I also think you sound a whole lot weaker.

Your "fixed" deadlines have been pushed back one by one, until it is now April...???

April like all the rest, is YOUR deadline, not his.

He doesn't care, why would he?

You are a pushover, he tested you to the max and you fell back into line...

I guess long years of living with a certified narcissist, has shaped you into the perfect OW.

He gives you some dried up breadcrumbs and you tie yourself into knots trying to believe it is cake.

 

There may be some truth to that. But I also know that I ultimately found the courage to leave the narcissist. I left him; he didn’t leave me. And I resent like heck that I now have to support him for the rest of his god forsaken life. So I am getting there with MM because I know I have to, despite any love I may feel for him.

[PhoenixRising8]

I agree, your words say that you are working through the situation with your counsellor and figuring out what you want to do, but your actions say that you have lowered your expectations and accepted the role of OW. And because of that, you most definitely appear weaker.

 

You used to be so firm in your conviction that this was a great love affair and that it was only a matter of time... Now, you appear to be resigned to the fact that it’s going to be a long haul...

 

A woman who shares her relationship struggles and seeks emotional support from her daughter during her affair is a very weak woman indeed. With all that your daughter has suffered from your ex-husband, why would you want to involve her in your current drama? As I’ve said before, is that really fair to her?

 

Maybe my seeming conviction was false bravado. Me trying to convince myself. Someone mentioned I seem more resigned and apathetic. Resigned, no definitely not. Apathetic? Yes. But not in the way that I don’t care about what he does to me. Apathetic in the sense that I am slowly detaching. I go through phases to get to the end. Sadness, anger, analysis, apathy and finally detachment. It’s how it’s gone with every relationship with me.

 

As for my daughter, yes she has gone through a lot thanks to Satan the x. I already explained what I meant by support and it isn’t discussing details. It’s just her presence that is comforting.

[PhoenixRising8]

LKK,

 

I actually feel so badly for you. Your relationship with MM isn’t to me at all what a loving, affirming relationship looks like. You say you can’t count on him, it can you really? A real partner would be there for you, not promising to be there for you and explaining again and again why he “can’t.” A real partner would make sure you were never put in second place. Instead, he would be introducing you to friends and colleagues.

 

Thank you so much for your kind words and hugs GG. You post actually made me cry.

 

The relationship isn’t loving and affirming. Not now. It went from being the relationship I always only dreamed of to this daily hell i am living. We do go out every Saturday night (and other nights during the week) to dinner, the movies, theatre and so on. We don’t hide. But it’s different now. Successive broken timelines have changed things a lot. I used to believe in him and us but now I find it hard to see that future we planned. It’s why I cancelled the cruise. Because I know in both my heart and mind that it will never happen.

 

I’ve had people treat me well for brief periods but then in the end despite my love, loyalty and sacrifices for them they ultimately hurt me. Without exception. The only ones I could ever count on were my grandparents and they’ve been gone for 25 years. MM treated me better than anyone ever had and true to form like everyone else in my life, he is now hurting me, probably just as much as the x did, but in different ways.

 

They say people come into your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime. I believed it was a lifetime but clearly I am wrong. He has served his purpose in getting me through the worst year of my life. But now things are different. Even last night he was talking about seeing us retired and traveling the world in 10 years. Later on another call he said “I love you” when we were ending the call and when I returned the sentiment I guess it didn’t sound genuine because he asked me if I was sure. That really angered me and I responded that he has his nerve because I should be the one to question his love since he has moved the goalpost numerous times. I actually wonder sometimes why he bothers because since December barely a day goes by I don’t pick fights with him.

Edited February 22, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Aloha123]

Have you thought about starting to date online again? I realize you’re in no state to meet your next soulmate while you are so consumed with your affair, and even that online dating in and of itself can be somewhat demoralizing, but maybe it will give you something else to focus on?

The reason I ask is, if I were not married, i would do this in a heartbeat in order to try to move on and/or distract myself from the mm.

You’ve really got very little to lose by giving it another try.

[elaine567]

I actually wonder sometimes why he bothers because since December barely a day goes by I don’t pick fights with him.

 

 

Preraph wrote this on another thread, it may be apt here.

 

"All guys act like they're in love during sex. that's because most of them are more in love with sex than they are with people."

 

It may be worth all the bother to get the sex, however infrequent...

[PhoenixRising8]

Have you thought about starting to date online again? I realize you’re in no state to meet your next soulmate while you are so consumed with your affair, and even that online dating in and of itself can be somewhat demoralizing, but maybe it will give you something else to focus on?

The reason I ask is, if I were not married, i would do this in a heartbeat in order to try to move on and/or distract myself from the mm.

You’ve really got very little to lose by giving it another try.

 

I have actually thought about it but have refrained thus far as I wonder how fair it would be given my messy situation with both the x and MM. I am technically not single and likely won’t be until the day the ex dies as we have agreed for financial reasons not to divorce but to stay married in perpetuity. He owes me and our daughter the financial security (and I have to support him in any case) after everything he’s done to us. MM knows this and accepts this. Why would he not given the current situation?

 

I spoke to MM about this last week and it will surprise no one that he didn’t like the idea one bit. When I asked why what’s good for the gander isn’t good for the goose he said in all seriousness that he is being faithful to me and isn’t intimate with his spouse. I know everyone will say I’m naive but based on when we have our calls, it isn’t likely he is sleeping with BS. He doubts my dating would have the same outcome. I’m still shaking my head with that one.

[PhoenixRising8]

Preraph wrote this on another thread, it may be apt here.

 

"All guys act like they're in love during sex. that's because most of them are more in love with sex than they are with people."

 

It may be worth all the bother to get the sex, however infrequent...

 

Interesting view. And it is easier to have sex with the one you’re already with than to find a new one. I still wonder why not just have sex with the BS.

[elaine567]

Interesting view. And it is easier to have sex with the one you’re already with than to find a new one. I still wonder why not just have sex with the BS.

She probably doesn't want to have sex with him, or he may just like some variety...

[PhoenixRising8]

She probably doesn't want to have sex with him, or he may just like some variety...

 

Or he no longer finds her body appealing since the liposuction and breast reduction, a surgery gone bad as he characterizes it. Also, he is very fitness conscious and she is quite unfit and overweight whereas I’m not.

Edited February 21, 2019 by LilKatKat

[Starswillshine]

Or he no longer finds her body appealing since the liposuction and breast reduction, a surgery gone bad as he characterizes it. Also, he is very fitness conscious and she is quite unfit and overweight whereas I’m not.

 

Just stop. This is why you won't let go.

 

Abd yoy keep reiterating that he told you this or told you that. ...... HE LIES. You can NOT prove he is NOT having sex with his wife. You have NO idea what goes on in his home. Just what he tells you and allows you to have access to.

[PhoenixRising8]

Just stop. This is why you won't let go.

 

Abd yoy keep reiterating that he told you this or told you that. ...... HE LIES. You can NOT prove he is NOT having sex with his wife. You have NO idea what goes on in his home. Just what he tells you and allows you to have access to.

 

I’m merely repeating his words. Maybe he is having sex with her, maybe he isn’t. Obviously I only have his word.

[Starswillshine]

Kat, how old were you when you were last single? You went from marriage to MM... and it sounds that either it was an affair or you went from a relationship straight into your marriage due to the paternity issue.

 

I am sensing some major co-dependcy issues. You are holding onto MM because you are scared to be alone. You say you may be able to do it when your daughter comes home.... because you are going to depend on her to bring you joy and/or distractions.

 

You are going to keep wallowing in this hell and just get deeper still. Making it harder and harder.

[S2B]

What has your counselor suggested you do/implement since October?

 

How many suggestions from the counselor have you done and how quickly did you do those suggestions?

 

Which suggestions have you put on the back burner?

[BaileyB]

Kat, how old were you when you were last single?

 

I am sensing some major co-dependcy issues. You are holding onto MM because you are scared to be alone. You say you may be able to do it when your daughter comes home.... because you are going to depend on her to bring you joy and/or distractions.

 

And this is why I don’t think dating now is a good idea. Let’s jump from a bad marriage, to a MM, to another relationship...

 

You need to learn to stand on your own two feet. You need to learn that you don’t need a man in your life to be happy. You need to learn what it is to live a peaceful life, without all this drama... because, if it doesn’t find you, you seem to find it!

Edited February 22, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator