Never thought I'd be an OW (long post)

[BaileyB]

I spoke to MM about this last week and it will surprise no one that he didn’t like the idea one bit. When I asked why what’s good for the gander isn’t good for the goose he said in all seriousness that he is being faithful to me and isn’t intimate with his spouse. I’m still shaking my head with that one.

 

This is ripe. I’m sorry, but this man has an excuse for everything. He is now attempting to manipulate you into not dating/having sex with other men because he is “faithful” to you by not sleeping with his WIFE.

 

Does he think you just fell off the turnip truck yesterday?

[BTDT2012]

Or he no longer finds her body appealing since the liposuction and breast reduction, a surgery gone bad as he characterizes it. Also, he is very fitness conscious and she is quite unfit and overweight whereas I’m not.

The fact that he would speak so disparagingly about his wife's physical attributes speaks volumes about his character. Attractive and fit people also get neglected sexually.

[PhoenixRising8]

This is ripe. I’m sorry, but this man has an excuse for everything. He is now attempting to manipulate you into not dating/having sex with other men because he is “faithful” to you by not sleeping with his WIFE.

 

Does he think you just fell off the turnip truck yesterday?

 

Maybe he does.

[PhoenixRising8]

Kat, how old were you when you were last single? You went from marriage to MM... and it sounds that either it was an affair or you went from a relationship straight into your marriage due to the paternity issue.

 

I am sensing some major co-dependcy issues. You are holding onto MM because you are scared to be alone. You say you may be able to do it when your daughter comes home.... because you are going to depend on her to bring you joy and/or distractions.

 

You are going to keep wallowing in this hell and just get deeper still. Making it harder and harder.

 

I was with my ex for 30 years and MM for almost a year so it’s been a long time. And no, my ex wasn’t an affair. He actually was separated with his own apartment.

[Starswillshine]

I was with my ex for 30 years and MM for almost a year so it’s been a long time. And no, my ex wasn’t an affair. He actually was separated with his own apartment.

 

I didnt know the details of previousrelationship, only knowing your xH was not your daughter 's father. So didnt know if you had an affair which led to your daughter or your husband came in while pregnant. Sorry if you took it that way.

 

I was in a 20 year marriage. We had been together since I was 18. It is so hard to go from being a couple to not being one. Maybe you are putting so much into this because you really have never been alone. And I do, understand. Trust me, I get that. It IS hard.

 

But Kat think about how much energy you are spending worrying about him, trying to figure out when he is thinking, what he means, what his motives are, what is true, etc. Imagine what good you could do for yourself if you could focus that energy on something positive.

 

I had something horrible come up recently that left me extremely hurt and angry, but after realizing that I am just wasting so much time and energy and mental well being on it.... I just stopped. I just focus somewhere else.

 

Reinvest in your girlfriends. Take a solo trip to a wonderful destination (but if you do this, prepare for the down moments because they hit and they hit hard but it is good ultimately), learn a new skill or hobby.

 

Tell this man you are taking your power back. Dont allow him any access to you until you have seen the papers signed and filed with the courts. That he has at least taken a step towards divorce. And moved out of the house. If he loves you like he claims, he'll find you. And you will be in a much better place to have a healthier relationship with him... or anyone else. Of course, he really will need to do the same. He has a whole host of issues as well.

 

Go live your life Kat. Stopping wasting your energy on a man who isnt making you a priority.

[PhoenixRising8]

What has your counselor suggested you do/implement since October?

 

How many suggestions from the counselor have you done and how quickly did you do those suggestions?

 

Which suggestions have you put on the back burner?

 

First of all let me say I have seen this psychologist on and off for years and he has helped me each time which is why I go back to him. He knows my history and we have a relationship established.

 

So here’s what he said in October/November. With everything I told him, he thought there was a good probability that MM was genuine in his desire to leave based on his behaviour and the actions he took in telling BS and the kids he wanted to leave. He acknowledged that guilt and obligation could result much confusion and in one or more false starts with respect to leaving. He has counseled many men and seen this play out time and time again. He did it himself when he left his wife many years ago. He cautioned me it could take 6 months or longer. Once it got to 6 months, if he hasn’t followed through it becomes less likely he will. He will likely wait until one of either the BS or I take action. Since January we have been discussing timelines and why I am struggling to pull the trigger. He is encouraging me to set a firm date and stick with it. We are also discussing my attachment, abandonment and dependency issues.

[PhoenixRising8]

I didnt know the details of previousrelationship, only knowing your xH was not your daughter 's father. So didnt know if you had an affair which led to your daughter or your husband came in while pregnant. Sorry if you took it that way.

 

Reinvest in your girlfriends.

 

The ex had a vasectomy and tried to have it reversed unsuccessfully twice (he’s 18 years older). I didn’t intend to have kids but when my grandparents died I decided I wanted a family as I had none. He suggested artificial insemination and that’s the route we took. No affair. Joint decision. Unknown donor. She was his in every way but biologically.

 

Girlfriends? None. I’ve never had many friends being quite shy and introverted. The few I had he effectively isolated me from years ago. So here I am, maybe mid 50s and only my daughter. That’s it. I have extended family in Europe but that’s it.

[Starswillshine]

The ex had a vasectomy and tried to have it reversed unsuccessfully twice (he’s 18 years older). I didn’t intend to have kids but when my grandparents died I decided I wanted a family as I had none. He suggested artificial insemination and that’s the route we took. No affair. Joint decision. Unknown donor. She was his in every way but biologically.

 

Girlfriends? None. I’ve never had many friends being quite shy and introverted. The few I had he effectively isolated me from years ago. So here I am, maybe mid 50s and only my daughter. That’s it. I have extended family in Europe but that’s it.

 

Gotcha! Understood now!

 

You can meet new people. Look up divorce support groups in your area. There are some websites that arrange meet ups for various groups at various age groups. I did this after my divorce since all my friends are married. It was a great way to meet people. I'm a bit introverted and shy myself, especially in groups. But it was a good way to get beyond that. To get out of comfort zone. If I made a fool of myself, I never had to see those people again. It was easy. I'm in a town 12 hours away from any family, so I get how hard that is. But I think you could take this opportunity and do something amazing vs waiting on this weak man.

[S2B]

First of all let me say I have seen this psychologist on and off for years and he has helped me each time which is why I go back to him. He knows my history and we have a relationship established.

 

So here’s what he said in October/November. With everything I told him, he thought there was a good probability that MM was genuine in his desire to leave based on his behaviour and the actions he took in telling BS and the kids he wanted to leave. He acknowledged that guilt and obligation could result much confusion and in one or more false starts with respect to leaving. He has counseled many men and seen this play out time and time again. He did it himself when he left his wife many years ago. He cautioned me it could take 6 months or longer. Once it got to 6 months, if he hasn’t followed through it becomes less likely he will. He will likely wait until one of either the BS or I take action. Since January we have been discussing timelines and why I am struggling to pull the trigger. He is encouraging me to set a firm date and stick with it. We are also discussing my attachment, abandonment and dependency issues.

 

I see. Thanks for the info. That clarifies some things... and I can see you have an attachment to the MM for a variety of reasons - your reasons... based on your assigned meaning ( the meaning you assigned to certain behaviors).

 

How do you view your attachments, abandonment and dependency issues? Have you read the book “Codependant no more”? By Melody Beattie?

 

What was time timeline suggested for the end date? How do you feel about that now?

Edited February 21, 2019 by S2B

[PhoenixRising8]

I see. Thanks for the info. That clarifies some things... and I can see you have an attachment to the MM for a variety of reasons - your reasons... based on your assigned meaning ( the meaning you assigned to certain behaviors).

 

How do you view your attachments, abandonment and dependency issues? Have you read the book “Codependant no more”? By Melody Beattie?

 

What was time timeline suggested for the end date? How do you feel about that now?

 

MM and I will have been together a year end of March and the 6 month mark of the drama is coming up so that’s what I’m trying to figure out.

 

Today is not a good day. I feel like such an abject failure on a personal level. Professionally I’ve been very successful; personally, not so much. I’ve started to read this thread from the beginning and I doubt it’s helping.

 

And no I haven’t read the book.

Edited February 21, 2019 by LilKatKat

[Starswillshine]

MM and I will have been together a year end of March and the 6 month mark of the drama is coming up so that’s what I’m trying to figure out.

 

Today is not a good day. I feel like such an abject failure on a personal level. Professionally I’ve been very successful; personally, not so much. I’ve started to read this thread from the beginning and I doubt it’s helping.

 

And no I haven’t read the book.

 

You are NOT a failure. You are at a point of change. This can be good. And this can be a positive thing. Getting to the other side of this will be so incredibly empowering. Staying with a man who treats you like a side piece will continue to make you feel worthless and like a failure. He isnt good for your self esteem. Get your power back. All of it. Trust me.... being able to survive it is one of the most empowering things. You'll feel like you can overcome anything.

[S2B]

You are NOT a failure. You are at a point of change. This can be good. And this can be a positive thing. Getting to the other side of this will be so incredibly empowering. Staying with a man who treats you like a side piece will continue to make you feel worthless and like a failure. He isnt good for your self esteem. Get your power back. All of it. Trust me.... being able to survive it is one of the most empowering things. You'll feel like you can overcome anything.

 

YES ^^^^ I agree completely!!

 

It’s only after time passes will you see clearly how much he has had you at a standstill.

 

And only in moving FORWARD - can you understand how you handed him all your power - by being complacent in your ACTIONS to take charge of YOUR future... instead of leaving those decisions up to him and what he will or won’t DO.

 

He’s not changing a thing! He likes it this way!

 

You think if he really told you the real truth you’d stay? Noooo. He’s got to have you believing his lies so you stay ready all his requests.

 

 

If nothing else, he got you out of a bad marriage...

 

Now it’s time you can find a healthy available man who will make ONLY you his top priority.

 

Stop being available to him, his calls, his visits.

 

Just decide your worth has higher value than what he has offered.

 

 

When you open up that vacancy - it provides room for a man who will treat you with respect and honor. As long as you settle for this low priority position - that’s all you’ll get - likely even less and less as time moves along.

 

 

He’s lazy, he’s weak, he’s conflict avoid and he’s very selfish and self serving. He doesn’t intend what he’s worked hard to build and he doesn’t want to risk his “image” to his kids and family. He’s broken promises to you and to his wife. He has no honor or integrity.

 

Nothing about that list shows a man to be attracted to. Nothing... not one thing.

 

You will only find a worthy man when you eliminate the one holding the space.

 

You make this decision for YOUR best interest/ for YOUR future!

[S2B]

When I think about what has transpired - I feel like you have missed your “opportunities to require him to treat you better.

 

We TRAIN people how to treat us... by what we do and don’t DO.

 

For example...

 

When he was in hawaii and communicating with you when it was convenient for HIM - he knew you were upset. Upset about the trip and the photo etc. even for just going on that trip.

 

Then, when he returned you rewarded his bad behavior by seeing him right away and having sex with him and reconnecting. It doesn’t matter that you may have had an argument - he got what he wanted after a luxury trip with his wife = to know for sure that he could live his life with his wife however he chooses yet you are still there when he returns. Having you believing his lies is a top priority he has.

 

So... a better and more effective approach would have looked like:

 

You cut him completely off and don’t see him at all when he returns... then and ONLY then does he get the clear idea that there are consequences for his choices he’s made!

 

And then stick to no contact until he files for divorce AND moves out - getting his own personal space while he waits for the divorce to be finalized!

 

You see? There’s not one single reason he has that shows him that he should change anything!

 

He does whatever HE wants and has two women that don’t impose ANY consequences for his choices (bad behavior).

 

 

In fact, you have rewarded his bad behavior... and now he knows he can ultimately get you to keep expecting more of the same or less and less from him - and when he does show up he ignores the fight and backlash (a small price to pay for him getting what he wants)... yet he gets your time, energy and devotion and, of course, sex.

 

Then off to home... and a few calls and texts and he KNOWS you’ll stay in that same crappy position he put you in.

 

He gets all he wants. There’s no reason to leave. Anyone leaving has got to have the bad WAY outweigh the good... and his just isn’t bad enough to leave her... that’s obvious because he never would have taken ANY trip with her!

 

 

So he can tell you anything he wants - but it doesn’t make it real.

 

Real is his actions. And he hasn’t made ANY move to change anything - except to lower your position...and expectations.

 

That man isn’t divorcing. All evidence points to him never divorcing. His wife doesn’t impose consequences either.

 

 

IF you want to be the OW forever just tell us. I will respect your decision. But the title of your thread showed me that wasn’t your intention - so all of my posts have been targeted to you not being in this position, thus getting your self respect back.

 

Would I like for you to gain self respect by honoring yourself - yes! I wish you would gather your strength and courage to move forward... past this year of your life that served its purpose but is no longer useful for you.

 

I hope you will get to that place soon... very soon.

[sandylee1]

Your Ex was very nasty to reveal he wasn't your daughters biological father, given that you went the A.I route to conceive and it was a joint decision.

 

He's 18 years older than you (he should have been joyous he got a younger wife) and has lost the relationship he had with your daughter now.

 

Perhaps his only saving grace is other children he may have from his previous marriage, otherwise being old with no family can be a miserable existence.

 

Many couples who conceive this way, never tell their child.

[anika99]

First of all let me say I have seen this psychologist on and off for years and he has helped me each time which is why I go back to him. He knows my history and we have a relationship established.

 

So here’s what he said in October/November. With everything I told him, he thought there was a good probability that MM was genuine in his desire to leave based on his behaviour and the actions he took in telling BS and the kids he wanted to leave. He acknowledged that guilt and obligation could result much confusion and in one or more false starts with respect to leaving. He has counseled many men and seen this play out time and time again. He did it himself when he left his wife many years ago. He cautioned me it could take 6 months or longer. Once it got to 6 months, if he hasn’t followed through it becomes less likely he will. He will likely wait until one of either the BS or I take action. Since January we have been discussing timelines and why I am struggling to pull the trigger. He is encouraging me to set a firm date and stick with it. We are also discussing my attachment, abandonment and dependency issues.

 

I see this as problematic. First of all you shouldn't even know that your therapist left his own wife. That's unprofessional. Secondly it seems that your therapist is biased and empathizes more with the MM than he does you. By telling you it would take 6 months he basically led you to believe that waiting 6 months was acceptable which is all well and good for your MM but horrible for you because every month this goes on the more painful it becomes. I feel like if your therapist had your best interests at heart he would have counseled you differently. Yes I know therapists can't tell their patients what to do but that doesn't mean they can't be honest and give the advice that best serves their patient.

[S2B]

What did the therapist advise you do after six months was up and he hadn’t left his wife?

[PhoenixRising8]

Your Ex was very nasty to reveal he wasn't your daughters biological father, given that you went the A.I route to conceive and it was a joint decision.

 

He's 18 years older than you (he should have been joyous he got a younger wife) and has lost the relationship he had with your daughter now.

 

Perhaps his only saving grace is other children he may have from his previous marriage, otherwise being old with no family can be a miserable existence.

 

Many couples who conceive this way, never tell their child.

 

We could never agree on whether to tell her so we didn't. He only ever alluded to it when he was angry with me. Even now he denies he told her which I suppose technically he didn't. He dropped enough hints to her during our fight when she came in and told him to stop being verbally abusive to me. That's when he started his hint dropping and told her to ask me. I told him I didn't know what was in his head so I'm not going to say anything. He'd done this before. She first asked if she was adopted and I said no and I have the pictures to prove it. Then she asked me if she is a "sperm bank baby". No idea how that sprung to her mind. I could lie and give him another way to hurt me and her by telling her I lied to her or tell her the truth. I chose the truth in that moment. It was not our finest hour. I will always regret and feel responsible and guilty for what this did to her. I will always regret not leaving him before he caused major emotional damage. That's something I have to live with forever.

[PhoenixRising8]

What did the therapist advise you do after six months was up and he hadn’t left his wife?

 

I have to decide if I stay or leave because if he hasn't left, he either isn't going to or is waiting for one of us to make it easy for him.

[elaine567]

Like giving birth, progress is important in a relationship.

The time scale can be fast or slow, there can be a bit of back and forth but as long as progress forward is seen, then all is fine.

What progress has their been in your relationship with this man?

[S2B]

I have to decide if I stay or leave because if he hasn't left, he either isn't going to or is waiting for one of us to make it easy for him.

 

People mainly change things when they are uncomfortable.

 

He is WAY too comfortable to do anything different.

 

Time to stop making him so comfy/making it so easy for him to use you to stay comfy.

[S2B]

I have to decide if I stay or leave because if he hasn't left, he either isn't going to or is waiting for one of us to make it easy for him.

 

Looks like you decided several months ago.

 

You can always decide something new...something that brings a new result.

 

Leaving things the same gives you the same result.

 

In order to invoke changes you must change things yourself.

[PhoenixRising8]

Looks like you decided several months ago.

 

You can always decide something new...something that brings a new result.

 

Leaving things the same gives you the same result.

 

In order to invoke changes you must change things yourself.

 

I did decide. I decided I was not going to wait around forever. I've been telling him that since December 27. March 22 is one year. My daughter is returning April so I'm thinking April is my drop dead. I've been slowly coming to terms with ending it but it hasn't been easy. The truth is that it's harder to end it than I can explain so I have been talking myself into it.

 

I know what he is doing to both BS and me is not good. I know everyone says he's a terrible person for doing what he's doing. But I have spent a lot of time with him the last 11 months so I actually know him. The person I know is sweet and gentle. Too much so. And conflict avoidant. So in trying to be gentle and not upset the apple cart he's going about things the wrong way. Yeah, I know ... maybe I'm being naive.

 

He actually said tonight that he now thinks that Hawaii may not have been such a good idea. He really believed she would come to the conclusion that there was nothing left between them. He knows if this goes on too much longer, given she tried to break into his phone, she's looking for evidence and if and when she finds it, he will be the bad guy and he doesn't want to be the bad guy. He would rather just deal with it without putting me In the position of being the home wrecker because if they had been solid, there would not have been an "us". Maybe I'm projecting but that's how I felt when I sought out an affair. There was no home to wreck because it already was. 10 years without a connection or intimacy. That's not a marriage... it's a platonic roommate situation called a marriage by virtue of a piece of paper only.

 

Apparently Dick and Jane's daughter is getting married in June and they're supposed to fly out for the wedding. I told him if they go to the wedding together, they will be staying together and I will be gone. I was very clear I don't have a lot left in me in terms of time. A month, maybe two if he's taken steps. No ultimatums, just a promise that I will walk away in the not too distant future because I am done enabling him to stay while she enables him from her end. He was adamant that he wants me and us, not as affair partners but as life partners. I told him I would believe it when I see it but I won't be holding my breathe.

 

So there's my timeline. As I said, it will be easier when my daughter is back so that falls in line with the one year anniversary. That will also have given him about 6 months to poop or get off the pot.

[darkbloom]

I would advise to stop talking to him until he decides. Giving him a deadline is like slowly ripping the bandaid off. You’re also going to try to talk yourself out of it and find reasons to stay.

[PhoenixRising8]

I would advise to stop talking to him until he decides. Giving him a deadline is like slowly ripping the bandaid off. You’re also going to try to talk yourself out of it and find reasons to stay.

 

I'm not trying to find reasons to stay. If anything, I am looking at all the reasons to go. That has been my focus since my trip in late December and continues to this very moment. As I said in a previous post, I went through the sadness, then the anger, analysis and now I'm becoming more apathetic. That is my pattern when I'm just about done. Happened with the ex, happening again. Only thing that stops that train is if he were to actually take action. Besides, there's something somewhat ironic and satisfying about waiting for the one year anniversary.

[S2B]

He’s essentially told you he’s not going to be the bad guy. You know what that means.

 

He’s telling you to expect another trip away in June - he’s prepping you. You know what that means.

 

You stated your deadline for April but then stated expecting to be around in June (when he’s expected to travel again)... I’m confused - which deadline is it?

 

He obviously expects you to be around in June when he takes off again with his wife - otherwise he wouldn’t have the need for you to know about his trip.

 

 

And... of course you think he’s sweet and gentle... that’s why you’re putting up with him yanking your chain. But his actions prove he’s a first class a-hole. You can’t see it clearly because he has to WOO you SO much so you stay in your awful position. That isn’t kind. That’s mean! He’s using you and you keep allowing it. He will do anything so he doesn’t have to make a move but keep you standing still in the position you’re in. And also what he’s been doing to his wife to keep her in the position she is in... it’s all very mean and cruel!!! All because he is SELFISH.

 

Be careful what you wish for... you could some day be in the position his wife is in - and have him doing this to you while married to him.

 

You know what they say... when the vacancy is there it gets filled with a new player.

 

I’m sure you aren’t his first OW. The last one probably got sick of his lies and inability to change anything. Don’t expect he will leave that marriage. It’s not so bad that he HAS to get out. People don’t change while they are comfortable.

 

He is nice and comfortable with all of this crap.

 

Why don’t YOU stop having sex with him? That is something you CAN do.

 

 

Does your daughter know you’re seeing a married man?