Never thought I'd be an OW (long post)

[PhoenixRising8]

LKK, gently...he DOES still have you on the hook. You may not be physical with him but as long as he keeps the door one tiny crack open, you won’t be able to truly move on. Just one phone call and a few song lyrics and he’s got rent-free space in your head once again. Pretty slick.

 

And speaking of which...can we talk about his lame romantic shtick? This married, middle-aged guy with his cheesy song lyrics and his “between now and forever” BS...don’t you sort of want to laugh? Who actually believes or enjoys this sh*t? Especially when all these flowery words are backed up with...um, a whole lot of nothing. I can’t for the life of me imagine how any woman could be turned on by this guy! Frankly my vibrator is more reliable and has a better personality than your Don Juan Tom.

 

This made me laugh!

 

The song lyric was from one of "our songs". Sorry but I'm just as lame because I relate songs to situations and people. I write poetry. Some people really are that cheesy.

[Starswillshine]

Kat, you are in charge of your life and none of us have to live it. If you want to be continued to be use, knock yourself out. I, personally, couldnt stay in that vicious cycle and took control of my life. You'll get there one day but in the meantime you'll waste precious days of your life.

 

And yes, he is still using you. And you are still allowing it. You are just too deep to see it or understand it..

[PhoenixRising8]

How is he using me? A call here or there? I've already said I've renewed my gym membership, set up personal training, signed up for hiking and cycling. Heck, I'm even doing the church thing and I'm not religious! I'm doing my own thing. Keeping busy. Not focusing exclusively on him. I think I'm doing better than many. Is it perfect? No. But expecting perfection is begging for failure.

 

And why does no one even considered I've used him along the way? Women get used but men don't? I've definitely had my use of him, emotionally and physically. Just saying.

[S2B]

Ok, have at it...

 

But he isn’t who you thought he WAS.

[PhoenixRising8]

Have at what? I'm doing things for me, by myself. I'm building my life without him, not around him.

[anika99]

Good Lord, this is all so predictable. His tears and your reaction.

 

Listen to yourself. Your dramatic post... "I could barely understand him through the tears." Give me a break.

 

You arent done and you are showing you arent..you are still holding out hope. It is sad because even if this guy leaves he is no prize. He is the exact opposite and you'll find yourself in his wife's position if he ever does let you be #1. But my guess if the divorce ever comes, it will be he needs space to clear his mind.

 

lol...he just needs a fainting couch and some smelling salts.

 

He says he needs to do those renos before he leave because they are needed before the house is sold and he doesn’t think she’ll let him do them after.

 

Good Lord, here we go again. He's not going to get those renovations done by July, He can drag the reno's out for a long time with varied excuses. Bad weather, don't have the right tools, too busy, etc. You will keep buying the excuses and then when July comes he is going to that wedding. You will freak out, tear him a new one, come here and vow that you are REALLY DONE THIS TIME! He'll come home, you will ignore some of his calls and play hard to get. He will cry and beg and find new ridiculous ways to get your attention. Once he has it then it will be off to the races again. "oh I'm really going to leave, in September, as soon as this or that happens" "Well you better! I swear to God If you spend Thankgiving with your wife then I'm really never going to talk to you again"

 

You are on his hook. Doesn't matter that you go to the gym an church. What does that have to do with anything? You still talk to him, you're still holding out hope. You won't be done with him until you stop talking to him. As long as you are in contact with him and listening to his lies you will never be able to grieve and heal. You are just delaying the inevitable. He lies so much he can't even make sense in a single conversation. He says he's going to look for a place to live but then he says he can't leave because he has to renovate the house first. So is looking for a place to live or is he renovating the house. Landlords don't hold rental units for people who don't even know when they can move.

Edited March 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[S2B]

Have at what? I'm doing things for me, by myself. I'm building my life without him, not around him.

 

Have at it = you are holding out hope. You answered his call. You moved YOUR boundary AGAIN.

 

He’s still got you in a holding pattern!

 

It’s no different that last fall - except now you’re not having sex with him.

 

You may have placed a few trivial things on your calendar - but you haven’t gotten so disgusted with his antics that you get done with him.

 

He’s a farce! When you start realizing what he really is - you stop allowing him to waste MORE of your time and energy.

 

You are certainly still handing him all your power - or you would never have answered his call.

[BaileyB]

Ah Kat, after all these pages and all the tears you have shed... I just can’t believe that you don’t see it. You are back to the very stubborn, defensive, “I know better than everyone here and I’m not going to listen to a word you all say...” woman that we met on page 1. I honestly thought you had moved past this...

[Abetterme]

Everyone doubted my approach. That I would succeed in ending the affair but I did. I did it my way. It's working for me. I have set boundaries and he's prepared to live by them. I'm trying to regain respect, from myself and from him. Without that, there's nothing.

 

Now go ahead, let me have it ...

 

@Kat - I say this with kindness, but it is sad to read this update. I think the reason folks are being so harsh is because you are “back in this”. Just because you’re keeping a little distance and not sleeping with him, doesn’t mean you aren’t engaging in an EA. When you say above you’ve ended this, you simply haven’t.

 

Everyone is just concerned because they’ve been there and know, you can’t move forward until you’ve truly separated yourself. He has you engaging, which is all he needs at the moment. You again defend him when the last 10 pages you did nothing but bash him. The other posters are only drawing from your own words to make their evaluations of Tom.

 

I know feelings don’t dissipate overnight, but you have to be more honest with yourself about what you really can expect from him. I find it extremely implausible that this man will be leaving his family in the midst of a child’s wedding. You are only delaying the inevitable. I am sorry, it hurts and it’s hard to back away, but he doesn’t deserve you.

 

As always, wishing you the best...

Edited March 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[PhoenixRising8]

I'm not saying I know better. Sadly, every time I thought everyone was wrong, I was the one proven wrong. Which is precisely why I have no great expectations with his latest pronouncements. Just because we've had a couple of conversations doesn't mean I'm back on the roller coaster, contrary to what seems to be consensus on this thread. It's why I've started to look at what I need to do for my own well being. But I can say that til I'm blue in the face and you'll all just conclude I'm back in.

[PhoenixRising8]

The wedding isn't his kid's wedding. It's Dick and Jane's. If it were his kids, yeah no way.

[S2B]

It doesn’t really matter who’s wedding it is... he felt obligated to go with his wife more than prioritizing you. There will always be a new excuse/stall tactic. These are the friends they went to Hawaii with. He feels obligated to them too.

 

 

Ya know, I think of it like this: would I wish this for myself? My sister? My daughter?

 

If the answer is no... then I wouldn’t wish it for you either.

 

The guy has offered you nothing. Nothing but future faking and broken promises - that’s never a good combo from ANY man.

 

I wish you would start dating many available men. Find one worthy of your company. I’m sure tons of men would treat you better than this dude has treated you. I think you’re waiting for nothing.

[assertives]

It's honestly sad to see this update. But I was kinda of expecting it. Not the he'll reach out part, but that you would respond part. He emailed you, which means you haven't blocked him. He asked you if he could call you and you said yes. Now you may think it's nothing and that you got it all under control. But this little crack is all he needs to weasel back into your life. He's now come back with a new excuse with the reno projects. He's creative, I'll give him that.

 

Need to renovate the home ---- so that it can be sold (??)

Need to go on a trip to Hawaii ---- so that BS can see how dead the marriage is

Need to stay because adult son/daughter/dog <insert family/friend here> unwell/needs therapy

Need to attend wedding as a couple with BS ---- because? so that Jane and Dick can see how dead the marriage is?

 

You have relayed so many of his lies on here that I have honestly lost track of the story, but none of them make any sense to me. Also, if there so much wrong going on in his family, his focus ought to have been actively working on them and not going out to look for an affair! And now that you've pushed him to leave, he SUDDENLY he feels he needs to be there for his sick daughter/son/wife? Before you start saying who are you to judge since you met him when looking for an affair --- this isn't about the history of how you guys started. It's about his *****ty problem solving/tackling skills or lack thereof. He was spending all day all night with you while the family was collapsing at home.

 

And the fact is that you have started defending and speaking up him on here all over again and lashing out at posters here. Just like you were in the earlier pages. You are back where you were before whether you realise it or not. Nevermind you aren't sleeping with him, nevermind you aren't "officially" back in an affair with him. He's got you thinking about him, about the wedding, about July. You are back in the details of his life and you even updated him on yours.

 

You don't owe us an explanation because it's your life, your choice after all. But perhaps you really need to be honest with yourself on this. Even if he emails you a copy of the divorce papers, it does not change the fact that he has been abusive, disrespectful and manipulative to his wife and kids and Dick and Jane. He is still satan 2.0. Say if your ex comes back and puts in the effort to prove himself and earn whatever he needs to earn from you, and asks for another chance, would you honestly have given him the time of the day? This is exactly why others are saying you are still on his hook.

[PhoenixRising8]

I see what you're saying because no I wouldn't let Satan back in. Then again I've had 30X more of Satan.

 

We've been apart now for almost a month. He didn't have to reach out. I was firm that I wasn't going to be the other woman so what's the point? Don't they generally high tail it when the OW dares not to stay in her place, which clearly I'm not. I'm more high maintenance than I'm worth, especially since sex isn't part of the equation. And I doubt my barrage was ego stroking, respectful or adoring. I didn't apologize for any of it. And I'm not going to. So what exactly am I giving him that he would want? I even hinted that I would go to BS. What's the point of continuing the charade of he's leaving under those circumstances? Surely he can find someone more malleable because I have become a bit of a loose cannon.

 

He has said he is leaving, even given I'm not a sure thing. The month without me has shown him that he really doesn't want to be with her to which I responded "why is this time any different than the previous several months? He said he realizes I made the marriage tolerable. I filled all the empty spaces. I told him I will not fulfill that role again so he might as well go back to hearth and home or AM again. He says it's because he realized he gave up the best thing he's ever had and he's realized he fears that more than leaving. What he has isn't what he wants for his life. He admits he's been selfish and hasn't thought about how he's impacted others. My texts made him face that and that isn't how he wants to live his life.

 

Do I believe him? Why should I? I guess I don't see how a couple of calls mean I've back tracked.

[BaileyB]

I'm stuck no longer. I spoke to my daughter tonight and told her the one thing that never made sense was why he would tell them he wanted to divorce. She looked at me like I had two heads. "Really mom? Because dad didn't say that all the time to both of us?" Occam's razor ... can't see forest for the trees. So many things make sense now. How did I miss this?!?! So obvious now.

 

Like how he was so charming and always had the right thing to say ... this from the guy who was inexperienced with women. The guy who was shy once upon a time. Yeah, he's done this before.

 

Guess you can say the fog has truly lifted.

 

I went from Satan to Satan 2.0 :-(

 

It's wondering how I ever open up to and trust someone else again after the 2 exes, H & MM who turned out to be little better than xH.

 

 

These are your words from a week ago Kat. What has changed, such that you are now talking with him again and possibly considering taking him back, if/when he files for divorce?

[Snipercatt]

I don’t think it is so much that you have back tracked. I think it is more that you are treading water rather than leaving the pool. To move forward you have to leave the pool. Cut all contact. Block him. He will find you when/if he has separated - which doesn’t mean he isn’t still a cad (so he may still have deep work to do following separation before he is good partner material.

[lolita888]

I have watched this sometime ago, about some people who ended up having an A and staying with the MM/MW despite the pain they caused them.

 

 

It seems that most of the time, these people who ended up falling for MP actually has problems of not feeling "loved". They spent their life, feeling unloved, unwanted and all - no matter how much their family, spouse or friends makes them feel loved they still don't feel it. It wasn't enough and will never be enough. So they go on look for that loved.

 

 

 

Unfortunately the MM/MW is someone that makes them feel loved - mostly because of the effort they do to be with them. It doesn't matter if they can only spend a few hours with them. It doesn't matter matter if they have to be kept as a secret. But the fact that this person is taking the risk of losing everything just to be with them is what makes them feel loved.

 

It doesn't matter if he couldn't live his wife yet, because that is the "right" thing to do.

 

But that is also one of the things that makes them feel loved. That person choose to stay with their BS because it's the right thing to do but he/she choose to spend time with the OP even if it's wrong.

 

 

After reading this thread. Seeing how many lies your MM created over the years. Seeing how you get pulled back again and again. And how you still can't completely let go of your MM. Makes me think that maybe you need to find that love - yourself. If you already went to IC but still don't feel that all healed and still can't completely let go of your MM and still can't see the truth with his lies, then the only one that can fix yourself is you alone.

[BaileyB]

He will find you when/if he has separated - which doesn’t mean he isn’t still a cad.

 

Exactly my post above. Whether he is married or single, he is still a cad.

[assertives]

All you know is those pieces that you parse in this thread, and it's always the most negative aspects. But there is a lot of good in him. We've had a lot of positives and one negative, albeit a big one. Few people are all bad, or all good. He's no exception. It is possible he has just been human and confused and afraid, thereby making bad decisions. Or he is nothing more than a lying, cheating cad. The next couple of months will tell the story.

 

I think the scary thing is that it is very subtle. So subtle that sometimes you don't realise until you are in the thick of it. Looking at what you said above, you have already started to convince us or maybe yourself that there is a good side to satan 2.0 and that maybe satan 2.0 isn't that bad after all. As for the threatening to tell his BS, you have already threatened to do that if he contacts you again the last time you met. Well, now he's contacted you again, and even got your permission to call you. You are not going to rat on him to his BS. He knows that. Maybe he knows you better than you know yourself.

 

I forgot to add in my earlier post. Not only has he manipulated you, his wife, kids, extended family, Jane and Dick... He has also manipulated his entire community since you said he's known to be a respectable person. Which respectable person goes out and have affairs and treat his wife like the annoying gum under his shoe?

 

I understand we are all humans and we make mistakes too. If starting an affair and catching feelings was a mistake, then he should have done what is right by his family. Coming clean, asking for forgiveness, or telling them I've met someone, let's discuss how to end this amicably.

 

Instead of blowing hot and cold with them and rubbing it in their faces by being blatantly out all day and all night and skipping birthdays, anniversaries and mothers' day. The mothers' day shenanigans was the most cruel I feel. It was not just a disregard/invalidating her as his wife, but also disregard/invalidating his children's feelings and her as the mother of his children. He must really loathe and detest her as a human being. Again, what respectable man does that?

 

Married or not, I wouldn't touch someone like that with a ten foot pole.

[S2B]

Do I believe him? Why should I? I guess I don't see how a couple of calls mean I've back tracked.

 

All this drivel from a lying guy who will always lay it on thick to keep you waiting in the wings.

 

Don’t think he’s not getting anything out of your contact = he needs the ego feed. It doesn’t matter that he’s not hearing what he wants to hear!

 

YOU are providing him ego strokes just by answering his emails and the phone.

 

Do you not get that? He wants your attention. And he got it.

 

And now he’s got you thinking again... oh maybe this will work - maybe he’s not so bad.

 

The guy is a common turd. Stop trying to dress it up like he’s half way decent - he’s not!

Edited March 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Starswillshine]

Any sort of reaction from you gives this man something. Anger... it means you still care... ego boost.

 

Kat, I know what you are reading into. You are thinking... I have been so cruel to hin and havent given up the goods, and yet he still sticks around, he must really love me. Kat, no, it does not mean that.

[BaileyB]

Any sort of reaction from you gives this man something. Anger... it means you still care... ego boost.

 

Kat, I know what you are reading into. You are thinking... I have been so cruel to hin and havent given up the goods, and yet he still sticks around, he must really love me. Kat, no, it does not mean that.

 

This is exactly what you are thinking.

 

He has said he is leaving, even given I'm not a sure thing. The month without me has shown him that he really doesn't want to be with her to which I responded "why is this time any different than the previous several months? He said he realizes I made the marriage tolerable. I filled all the empty spaces. He says it's because he realized he gave up the best thing he's ever had and he's realized he fears that more than leaving. What he has isn't what he wants for his life. My texts made him face that and that isn't how he wants to live his life.

 

And this, is exactly why you think that. This is your ego boost. He knows just what to say to get you to open the door a little bit wider... appeal to your ego. It’s music to your ears...

[elaine567]

Whilst we are on the subject of music... I wonder if he plays this to his wife too?

 

"I'm never gonna let you go

I'm gonna hold you in my arms forever

Gonna try and make up for all the times

I hurt you so

Gonna hold your body close to mine

From this day on we're gonna be together

Oh I swear this time

I'm never gonna let you go

Looking back now

It seems so clear

I had it all when you were here

Oh you gave it all

And I took it for granted

But if there's some feeling left in you

Some flickers of love

That still shines through

Let's talk it out

Let's talk about second chances

Wait and see

It's gonna be sweeter than it was before

I gave some then but now I intend

To dedicate myself to giving more

This time you can be sure

I'm never gonna let you go

I'm gonna hold you in my arms forever

Gonna try and make up for all the times

I hurt you so

Oh, so if you'll just say"

You want me too...

[Starswillshine]

Adding also... you told him you went on dates or looking for dates.

 

"But wait, my sweet goddess Kat, I'm going to leave. Just after I do these reno." Then it will be when the sick dog dies. Or when his neighbor can let go. Or some other crap.

 

You're too close to this all to see what is so obvious to everyone else. This is why you need to stop ALL contact with him. Block him, dont look at his social. Give yourself that for at least a couple of weeks to clear your head so you can see things more clearer.

[sagamore]

The affair is not over until he can no longer use you to prop himself up emotionally.

 

Until then, you’re still in a relationship with a man your daughter has already told you she can’t respect.