Never thought I'd be an OW (long post)

[PhoenixRising8]

@ Stars. Well remind me to run from cyclists because guess what? Tom is a cyclist. And triathlete. Rides with a club. Tuesday and Thursday evenings, Saturday and Sunday mornings. Last year mostly he didn't ride except once a week. The rest he spent with me. Then there was working late. Then when cycling season ended, hockey season started and that was the excuse. Watching hockey with a friend ... EVERY Saturday night for months, some nights during the week also. And of course he'd be too tired to go home because of all the long hours at work by the time the game ended. So he'd stay out all night. He spent almost no time at home between work (6am to 6 pm generally), the gym or with me. These overnights started after he told her he wanted a separation. I'd be willing to bet he was trying to get chucked out at that point.

 

I know you think she likely didn't know but she started to talk about infidelity a lot. He'd come over and talk about this friend or that one that was having an affair or separated. She asked him numerous times if he was having an affair and even talked to him about how her father had an affair and her parents managed to move past that. If she didn't know and that wasn't a clear message, I don't what was.

 

Here's the thing, OWs are vilified for being selfish and not thinking about the BS I can tell you that wasn't the case with me. I will admit before he started talking to her about separation, I didn't think about her. After that, when I saw how he was starting to act out and do things that were frankly cruel, I would talk to him about it. And increasingly feeling guilty about what he was doing, not just to me but also to his life partner and mother of his children. There was nothing I could do or say to get it through to him that it was all just wrong. That he had two women on the hook and both were suffering. After a month or two, I started to do things to detach (like planning a holiday season trip), created a playlist of songs that reinforced the message we were ultimately breaking up and self talk about how and why it had to end. I'd look at her profile picture of the two of them and tell myself that I'm getting in the middle. And yet, letting him go was the hardest thing ever.

 

This weekend is especially difficult because the first "I love you" was exchanged a year ago. It's also the first beautiful weekend and he would be cycling. And last year it would have been picnic lunches after the Saturday ride and breakfast, hiking and lunch on Sunday when he would forgo the ride. I've been mentally preparing myself for the end for months and yet, here I am, just in bits even though I don't want to pick up where we left off ... ever.

Edited June 9, 2019 by LilKatKat

[Starswillshine]

LKK, she probably suspected that MAYBE something was up, but that does not mean she knows.

 

When my xWH was in his affair, he didnt really act different towards me, but he started acting weird with his phone. It all of a sudden never left his side. Whereas before, he would come home, put it down on the counter, and that would be that. And once he got really frantic when I was on his phone trying to figure out something. I wrote to my friend about it. Saying, "something feels off." I even spoke to him about it. I went to him and asked if if there was something going on. He swore up and down there was absolutely nothing going on, that he loved me and each and every day, he loves me more and more. I even sat there crying saying, maybe I should see someone because I am feeling a little insecure all of a sudden. He said he would support me in whatever I needed to do to make myself feel better.

 

You have to understand... a man who is able to conduct an affair is easily able to manipulate everything and they come off so darn believable. They can put the emotion into their words. I know written on a screen, you'll probably not understand how I could just brush it off and make it out as something was wrong with me. But this is what MM do. And we (OW and BW alike) dont even see how they have manipulated us to make us feel like we are the problem. This is why I encourage you often to forget about BW and how he was able to do what he did. Because just like he fooled you and was so convincing, he does the same to BW.

[elaine567]

Here's the thing, OWs are vilified for being selfish and not thinking about the BS I can tell you that wasn't the case with me. I will admit before he started talking to her about separation, I didn't think about her.

 

No, because it was one long romantic love fest for you.

Only when he didn't actually leave, did you start to wake up.

Had he left at that particular juncture would you have given her a second thought?

[PhoenixRising8]

LKK, we were just talking about this on another thread. The way the BS is set up to be seen as the problem. The OW on that thread actually quite resents the amount of times the BW contacts her MM. She accuses the BW of "using" her problems and their son as "tools" to get his attention. She "faked" a crisis once to get her husband to come home. That MM travels away from home for more than 250 days a year and works 16 hour days when he is home and still the OW sees his wife as overly demanding and apparently thinks the BW should just handle her own damn problems and leave her poor husband alone. But when a BW is independent and gives her husband trust and freedom then she gets judged for not caring.

 

Yes, I've posted a lot on that thread. (Thanks for the shout out there lol) It's frustrating though because I can see that high speed train rushing towards her and despite how specific I've been with examples of similarities (and differences) it's one rationalization after another. How or why she thinks 2 people with kids living 5,000 miles apart, even IF he actually intended to leave, will ever work out is beyond me. That alone would put him over the "not" line. But it's a lot easier to see all of this when you aren't emotionally invested. I spent a lot of time analyzing my own situation and although at times I'm sure everyone was frustrated with me, I did actually see that any action could be given a different and sometimes entirely different spin. From November onwards, I spent the time validating different theories and priming myself for the end. I wanted to make sure so I would have no regrets and wonder if it might have worked if only I had waited longer or done this, that or the other. This will keep me from falling back in possibly if he ever came back, which I doubt he will.

 

I'm still absolutely dumbstruck by how similar the stories and excuses are. It's like there's a manual out there and these guys buy it and memorize it before they set out SMH

[PhoenixRising8]

No, because it was one long romantic love fest for you.

Only when he didn't actually leave, did you start to wake up.

Had he left at that particular juncture would you have given her a second thought?

 

Had he left, it would have meant his marriage was truly intolerable (for whatever reason) and he was doing the honourable thing in walking away from one and not stringing two along. I think I've said many times in this thread that because of the discussions we had, I truly believed he was as miserable as I was and that he wanted more out of life than living a miserable existence. Marriage isn't a prison on a deserted island with only the BS around as the warden. But even if he had left, I'm not a heartless beotch. You'd have to be pretty cold and calculating not to feel empathy for someone who is going through a separation/divorce.

[DKT3]

No, because it was one long romantic love fest for you.

Only when he didn't actually leave, did you start to wake up.

Had he left at that particular juncture would you have given her a second thought?

 

This is a really great point.

 

I believe that most MW/OW see the wife as in the way. This dynamic only solidifies the "love" and connection with MM. You know, like when you were 15-16 and your parents prevented you from dating the 19 year old with the cool car. It creates an us against them type of bond. The problem is US is really just you because he is loyal to her in the sense of where he actually wants to be.

[elaine567]

You'd have to be pretty cold and calculating not to feel empathy for someone who is going through a separation/divorce.

 

But no empathy for her when you were monopolising her husband behind her back in those first 6 months?

[BaileyB]

But no empathy for her when you were monopolising her husband behind her back in those first 6 months?

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but it felt more like she was an obstacle to be overcome...

 

It’s easy to be benevolent and have empathy when you are the “victor.”

[PhoenixRising8]

I was going through my own drama with xH. The separation, the harassment from him, the stuff with my daughter. Combine that with the fact that he portrayed his situation to be the same as mine, although not quite as bad, because mine was horrible. And he was leaving her, he convinced me. We first discussed it after I returned from my trip end of May. He and I 24/7/365. So no, not the first 6 months. If that makes me a horrible person, so be it. What is the point of this anyway? I feel crappy enough as it is. Is this really necessary Elaine?

[Starswillshine]

Another thing not often discussed... the OW sometimes blame the BW for manipulation, trying to up the game so the MM picks her, etc, etc..... meanwhile, OW is doing the exact same thing. Except OW knows. BW doesnt.

[PhoenixRising8]

If asking him to consider whether the affair is a way to get her attention, suggesting strongly MC (she suggested it, he declined), talking to him endlessly about how he isn't treating her well, he should do the honourable thing and leave if he doesn't want the marriage or end the affair if he does is being manipulative then I guess I was a miserable,selfish, self serving cow. There you go. I'm just as worthless and depraved as he is and deserve every ounce of misery I now have.

[heartwhole2]

I'm sure there are lots of instances where I hear about something hurting someone else and I don't have as much empathy as I could. I also don't think anyone expects two people who met on AM to spend a whole lot of time worrying about each other's spouses. In the grand scheme of the destructive choices you are trying to unravel, I don't think this particular point tips the scale all that much.

 

But it does sound like having empathy for others is important to you, and you may still be giving more weight to intentions and feelings than to choices and actions. And by that measure, if intentions are what matters and not whether our choices cause harm to others, then your xMM hasn't done wrong by you either. This could be something to explore further at a time when you are not otherwise overwhelmed by anniversaries and grief.

 

It may be easier to swallow your guilt when you frame it as "I'm still a good person because I cared about BW" or "I'm still a good person because I only did it because MM misled me." True self-acceptance is scary but in the end it will serve you better than minimization.

[PhoenixRising8]

If I were still in the midst of the affair I could understand. But I’m not and never will be again. There is zero chance. At the time I had hit rock bottom (or so I thought) and I met quite a few that I immediately discounted because they were in it just because. He seemed to be different. Genuinely unhappy and wondering if he should stay in the marriage. We bonded over our miserable existence. Did I find the wrong solution? Absolutely. Would I do it again? No way! I let him into my marriage and he did the same. But he also knew how vulnerable I was but that didn’t stop him. Yes I made bad choices, I wasn’t thinking clearly, I ignored my own morals and values, something I will never do again. But is it really necessary to beat me up anymore? I’m beating myself up enough as it is. So thanks for the support.

 

I know what my motivation and trigger was. I know it was wrong and I’m paying the price while he goes on his merry way as though nothing happened. Not fair but that’s life. And I’m on here trying to help someone else to see things more clearly. I can’t change what happened and getting on me about BS no when it’s well and truly done and I’m having a hard time already well if that makes people feel better to kick someone when they’re down, have at it I guess and thanks. Shouldn’t expect anything different I suppose as I get this from people in real life all the time anyway. Just don’t deserve anything better. Didn’t get it from parents, xH, why expect anything different from random strangers on the net.

[DKT3]

My Male mind finds it difficult to understand how these things are so complicated for women to get. Many, many men out there have affairs not just affairs but "normal" relationships as well where they simply take what the woman is offering. He then wants it to continue so they lie, they tell you what you want to hear or need to hear to ease your conscience so you continue to give. With married men, they want to hear the marriage is bad, the wife is horrible and they want out...is that true? Not likely, in cases that it is, MM will leave quickly. Dont believe me, look at the several MW/OW that ended up with MM it happened quickly.

 

My point is katkat, there is not likely a deeper meaning for him. I'm not saying he didn't care about you, I not even saying he hadn't thought or considered leaving. I saying it wasn't that deep, his intentions were likely to simply maintain a relationship with you and stay married. The reason behind why is irrelevant.

 

I think it's why you feel stuck, you need for it to have meant as much to him as it did to you. After all he took the same risks, right? He was/is in a equally horrible marriage, like you he should want out, right? with that being said, ask yourself which is more likely given the information you have now?

 

Bottom line is this, if he was as involved as you, once you cut him off it would have spurred him into action to make the two of you legitimate, don't you think?

[PhoenixRising8]

Well I’m not a man, never been a cheater and had been loyal for 30 years. Naive? Yup. Not like I’ve had lots of experience with men beyond my husband. Guess I should have done my research before not after the fact.

Edited June 9, 2019 by LilKatKat

[heartwhole2]

Trying to kick you when you are down is not the same thing as asking questions that may help you gain further insight. When your answer holds up to scrutiny it won't result in a "Make this bad feeling stop!" reflex for you because you'll be at peace in your truth. The goal is to develop the insight and resilience to handle those big feelings.

 

Of course, this is a time when you are struggling with grief so trying to dig deeper and gain further insights can wait a little while. Learning more about yourself and how to be the person you want to be is a life-long journey.

 

I don't know what comments or questions might make you spiral. I can only suggest that when you feel the urge to say, "See! You're right! I'm worthless!" that is a faulty coping mechanism designed to protect you from things that make you feel bad. But employing this faulty mechanism just results in further dysfunction for you. Either the person gives up on you, or they stop being truthful with you (like when a MM plays the pity card so the OW will stop making demands or asking questions).

 

Find ways to root yourself in your worth. Meditation, music, deep breathing, talking to yourself as a child. You are the one who needs to soothe and heal this wound; no one else can do it for you.

[PhoenixRising8]

YeAh I’m digging deep but going on about what my thoughts about the BS were in the beginning serves no purpose now. Maybe later but not now

[SpiceCat]

I was going through my own drama with xH. The separation, the harassment from him, the stuff with my daughter. Combine that with the fact that he portrayed his situation to be the same as mine, although not quite as bad, because mine was horrible. And he was leaving her, he convinced me. We first discussed it after I returned from my trip end of May. He and I 24/7/365. So no, not the first 6 months. If that makes me a horrible person, so be it. What is the point of this anyway? I feel crappy enough as it is. Is this really necessary Elaine?

 

You're not a horrible person. Not from what I can see. But you made some horrible choices and you hurt other people with them. Naivete is not an excuse for this, nor is dealing with your own drama.

 

Until you own this, you will not heal. I learned this the very, very hard way..my lesson included an intentional prescription pill overdose and a trip to a psych ward. PLEASE DO NOT let yourself get to that point. I assure you, it is like being in literal hell.

[elaine567]

SpiceCat is correct.

Instead of romanticising the "I love yous" and wallowing in grief on this "anniversary", maybe it would be better and do you more good in the long run if you started seeing it for what it really was...

Otherwise you will be stuck in a loop.

[PhoenixRising8]

It ended like 5 or 6 weeks ago ... sorry I'm not quite over it yet.

 

And yes spicecat, I own it. Maybe that's why I'm beating myself up so much ... because I knew better.

[PhoenixRising8]

SpiceCat is correct.

Instead of romanticising the "I love yous" and wallowing in grief on this "anniversary", maybe it would be better and do you more good in the long run if you started seeing it for what it really was...

Otherwise you will be stuck in a loop.

 

It was a significant occurrence I thought and it made me sad. Sorry I didn't forget the first significant milestone after the break up. I mean, I had a whole five weeks to get over it right?

[SpiceCat]

It ended like 5 or 6 weeks ago ... sorry I'm not quite over it yet.

 

And yes spicecat, I own it. Maybe that's why I'm beating myself up so much ... because I knew better.

 

Nobody, including me, is asking you to be over it. Relax. You WILL come out of this and you WILL be fine.

[Buffer]

It ended like 5 or 6 weeks ago ... sorry I'm not quite over it yet.

 

And yes spicecat, I own it. Maybe that's why I'm beating myself up so much ... because I knew better.

Hi LiKatKat

 

I have looked at you post, I feel you have had a hard trot, near the end of your relationship. Never hang in a toxic relationship with emotional abuse. No matter what the assets invested are.

 

I am a bit on the slow side but did you use this to start a PA whilst still in a marriage (paper only) but why does that excuse the AP he is a pig of a man!

He will never leave his wife and child. You were a piece of fluff for him not being crude. You I am sure are a beautiful person, who has had a rough few years.

 

Move on from both, your abusive partner as well as the pig of AP

 

You need to surround yourself with supportive people, not enabling ones. Reach out to your children establish a good rapport with them. Then once clear in mind hit the dating sights for you!

 

Set boundaries like No married men, no engaged men, no current girlfriend status. Regardless of how the rock your Sox. I would always wonder if they cheated to be with me would she do it to me once the honeymoon phase is over and it is back to life mode.

 

Good luck in love I am sending you like love from abroad.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Buffer
Spelling

[heartwhole2]

That is a good point about the difference between supportive people and enabling people.

 

I support you in making good choices for yourself. I understand that you were in love and you are experiencing real heartbreak. I know that it will take time to get over, and that no one flips a switch and says, "Well, that affair was a bad idea, now I have zero feelings about it whatsoever." I have always been someone who finds the anniversaries of sad events bring up a lot of emotions. You find yourself transported back to what you were thinking and feeling a year earlier.

 

Have you tried any tools for grieving? Write letters to xMM, lead yourself through a tapping (EFT) session . . . Your broken heart will heal, and the more you can face your pain, the more quickly this will happen.

[PhoenixRising8]

This past week since the anniversary was the lowest point for me in the last 6 weeks. I can't even remember how many times I wanted to text or call. Thankfully I didn't. What would be the point? He would either ignore my call/text which would make me feel terrible. Or if we talked I'd risk a re-start or rejection, which would be worse still. There is no go outcome to contact. Not for me in any case.

 

I've thought a lot about the good, the bad and the ugly. The first 7 months he made me feel alive, loved, cherished, respected. I felt like the only woman, not the other woman. That feeling is what I miss. I was his priority and he showed it, choosing me and my needs over the BS time and time again. But that was a double edged sword. If he could be so cruel to his partner of 30 years and mother of his children, why did I think I would not be given the same treatment? And ultimately I was treated the same cruel way. He left that last Saturday night saying 'I love you more' after I responded 'I love you' to his and the next day, he said he was having doubts again. We talked over the next week and on our last call he said he hadn't given up on us then ghosted me until I contacted him. He gave me a cold and callous 'yes, it is' when I asked if it's time to end it. That was it. So much for loving me more and not giving up on us. It was like he turned the switch to the off position. And I was left wondering what the hell just happened. Full throttle to full stop literally over night. No warning. No precipitating event.

 

But it isn't all that complicated. Men really aren't. That last Saturday night, he picked a fight prior to our date and suggested maybe he shouldn't come over, but he did. Nice evening complete with a long massage because his back was sore from a long bike ride in the cold and rain. Then nothing. Couldn't get in the mood which has NEVER happened before. And that Sunday, we didn't see each other, instead he went to a movie with the family, something he hadn't done since last summer. The only thing that makes sense is that after 7 months of just about every Saturday night out (and a lot of Friday nights this year plus Sunday afternoons and at least 1 other night), BS finally said no more if you want to continue this marriage. So he threw me under the bus. I'm 99% sure this is what happened, not that he would be man enough, honest enough, respect me enough to give me the truth. It's the only thing that makes sense. That's the only way you go from full throttle to full stop. You don't just wake up and decide, 'Hey, Kat deserves better so I'm going to agree to end it in the coldest, most callous way possible'. Occam's razor; law of parsimony. He went from wanting to leave to not because I guess in the end, it's too messy and painful. And why leave for the woman who cheat with you when you have the faithful, long suffering wife willing to put up with your shenanigans waiting patiently at home?

 

In the final analysis I love the way he made me feel. I love the man I was with the first 7 months ... the illusion he portrayed. He has shown me who he is time and time again and I finally believe him. He showed disrespect in the end by not being open and honest. He suddenly shut down. And of course he is a proven liar and cheater who is not worthy of being trusted. I deserve better. We all do. He isn't worthy of my love or angst and likely never was. Nonetheless, I hope he is happy because I don't wish ill or harm to anyone. Good luck to them ... they're going to need it.

 

As for me, I am feeling much better today. I have just joined a number of meet up groups and am going to comedy night on Friday and a singles dance on Saturday. I have a Wednesday evening support group meeting I'm starting as well as a meditation group. Do I feel like doing these things? No, not at all but I realize that doing nothing isn't getting me anywhere I want to be so I'm going to fake it til I make it. I've always been a fighter and I'm not going to let someone as undeserving as he is change the essence of who I am, who I've always been.

 

On the job front, I have 3 active opportunities on the go. Maybe I'll get lucky - I could use a bit of that. I sure could use the distraction.