Never thought I'd be an OW (long post)

[BaileyB]

You need a little time on your own, without your husband, without this MM.

 

Absolutely, completely, 100% agree.

 

My biggest concern for you OP - you have admitted that you have had several men in your life with whom you have shared challenging relationships - your father and your ex-husband. I fear that you have not taken the time that you need to do some self-reflection - to really understand how these relationships have impacted your expectations, your decisions, and your relationships.

 

And now, you have made a rather impulsive decision. This relationship has not developed in the way that a "normal" healthy relationship would develop and grow. And you have not taken the time to evaluate this man, and this relationship, as you would if you were not in the heightened state of an affair. This MM may well be another dishonest, selfish, and nacissistic man (I would argue, given the fact that he is living with his wife and engaging in an affair with another woman that is likely the case - although, I'm sure you will disagree). My fear for you is that you are essentially jumping from the fire into the frying pan.

 

It's that old saying "act in haste, repent at leisure..." I would strongly encourage you to take some time apart - some time for him to deal with his issues at home and make a decision, and some time for you to gather yourself and perhaps, gain some more perspective. If the decision is - he will leave his wife and you want to be together, you will both be the better for taking that time apart.

[S2B]

This guy is busy busy busy...

 

He's on the defensive with keeping his wife and kids happy.

 

He's on the offense trying to keep you on the playing field.

 

And he likely hasn't even slowed down enough to think hard about what he genuinely wants. He's a mouse on that circular wheel that never stops!

 

 

Being busy is an easy excuse for accomplishing NOTHING when the demands are coming from all angles.

 

He needs a vacation alone! No wife no mistress no kids no communication with anyone!

 

Just time to clear the mind and decide what ACTION he is to take without anyone swaying him.

 

Maybe he loves being in high demand by everyone? Still, when you're harming people by doing it that way - it's not right.

 

The longer he goes without deciding = the MORE harm to the ones he claims to love!

 

He loves mainly himself. I think he's enjoying this little game he's acquired with you, his wife, his kids.

[What_Did_I_Do]

And, OP, if he does get the courage to move out, chances are he will return to the M for a myriad of reasons: kids are a mess, wife is suicidal, finances, too far of a drive to work now. Waffling, back and forth. Round and round. That's what mine did. He left and then went back for 'financial reasons'. Claims he's living in the basement until the house sells this spring. Sending me pictures of his basement living. I don't buy his cr*p for one second.

 

It all comes down to how long are you willing to wait. Don't be me. If I could turn back time I would have bolted after the first excuse as to why he couldn't leave.

 

I had a long overseas vacation booked too but postponed it to next summer so I wasn't grieving the entire time and having HIM occupy my thoughts. No way. I'm so looking forward to that trip now.

 

Your MM is probably conflicted but he's not doing anything about it except shedding tears to you about his dreadful situation. Don't fall for it OP. He's a grown man and if he was serious about leaving, he'd be taking the necessary steps to do so.

 

Walk away now so you can enjoy yourself on this vacation. It's so hard...I know.

[PhoenixRising8]

Well by the way you describe your husband and how you feel about him isn't it a good thing that you left him, regardless of what the MM does? Even if the MM doesn't leave the affair motivated you to get out of a terrible marriage so why do feel that it has made a mess of your life?

 

Yes, leaving was the one positive. Too bad it took the devastation of my daughter for me to finally pull the trigger. That guilt will stay with me a long time to come when I think of how I might have spared her had I had the guts to leave him sooner.

[PhoenixRising8]

Do your adult children know you're seeing this MM?

 

Have they met him? What do they say about your situation?

 

Yes my daughter has met him and likes him. Thinks he's generally a nice guy. But like everyone here, she doubts he will leave.

[PhoenixRising8]

So yesterday was my birthday and it was the most unforgettable one I've ever had, no doubt about it.

 

Jim came over in the evening and the plan was to go out to dinner and a movie, except we didn't. He came over in a "mood". He had gone out with his son and they talked so of course the guilt kicked in again. As he was leaving, the wife was sad and asked him to come home, which of course he didn't. We talked a fair bit and he said he realized he would never be truly happy with her and somehow he has to find the courage to let her know. She made several unanswered calls to him last night, the last one resulting in a message which he retrieved in the middle of the night. In it she said he's been lying to her and being disrespectful. Same things I said to him.

 

This morning he woke up to say we feel so right and this is where he should be. With me. Nonetheless, in the space of a couple of hours he went back and forth several times. He can't walk away from me, he doesn't know if he can devastate his family.

 

I read the Affair Megafecta on Friday and I've been thinking about it. As conflict avoidant as I have been in earlier years, I now will create it if it means solving a problem. So I told him that he really has a massive ego if he thinks everyone will fall apart if he isn't there. I told him he is selfish and self-entitled if he thinks he can takes us all on this roller coaster ride while he has the benefits of home and a mistress. I told him that I wonder if the sweet, kind gentle man I am in love with truly exists or if he isn't some illusion conjured up in the throes of the initial romance. He said I might be right. Maybe he has been a selfish, self centred asshat.

 

When he finally left, he didn't know what he would say to his wife but he had to either end it with her or with me but he couldn't go on this way, for anyone's sake. If he does stay in the marriage, he says he's pretty sure he will regret it but it may come to that anyway. I'm pretty sure we are done. He sways according to the wind it seems so I'm fairly confident since she is the one he is with this afternoon he will bend towards her.

 

I've been thinking of all the negatives in the last 7 hours since we parted and I know that even if he leaves, it will be an uphill climb. He may leave her and then go back as soon as the guilt kicks in. I'm not sure the roller coaster ride would come to an end. It would just be a different one. So why do I still want him? Why is my heart in pieces? Why do I hope he calls to say he was honest with her, even though I know that isn't likely?

[PhoenixRising8]

And, OP, if he does get the courage to move out, chances are he will return to the M for a myriad of reasons: kids are a mess, wife is suicidal, finances, too far of a drive to work now. Waffling, back and forth. Round and round. That's what mine did. He left and then went back for 'financial reasons'. Claims he's living in the basement until the house sells this spring. Sending me pictures of his basement living. I don't buy his cr*p for one second. <SNIP>

 

Yes, there will be the suicidal wife, the kids who can't cope, the dog who's dying and a myriad of other challenges, of that I have no doubt.

Edited November 19, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[S2B]

Dang, that sucks...I'm sorry for your pain.

 

Looks like he's all talk and no action to change things - on both sides =his home life and his life with you.

 

 

It certainly does look like a roller coaster ride.

 

And it REALLY looks like he's also playing his wife for a fool.

 

Ya know... that's not a nice man... not one bit.

 

 

You really deserve better than what you're allowing him to do to you.

 

 

YOU are in charge of YOUR future.

[PhoenixRising8]

Looks like he's all talk and no action to change things - on both sides =his home life and his life with you.

 

<SNIP>

 

No, I think he really is on the brink of tossing one of us aside and I fully expect it to be me. If he were going to leave her, he would have done it and I would have heard from him that he was in the last 8 hours. His last message to me 4 hours ago said "I truly love you darling, always have and always will. This morning may possibly be our last memory of each other - time will tell. I promise not to drag this out much longer - for everyone involved".

 

Even if we are done at this point, I have a feeling he may be back sooner than later. I just pray I have the wherewithal to say no thank you.

Guess it's time for the I told you so's.

Edited November 19, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Veronica73]

God the drama. I don’t know how you can stand it.

[S2B]

No, I think he really is on the brink of tossing one of us aside and I fully expect it to be me. If he were going to leave her, he would have done it and I would have heard from him that he was in the last 8 hours. His last message to me 4 hours ago said "I truly love you darling, always have and always will. This morning may possibly be our last memory of each other - time will tell. I promise not to drag this out much longer - for everyone involved".

 

Even if we are done at this point, I have a feeling he may be back sooner than later. I just pray I have the wherewithal to say no thank you.

Guess it's time for the I told you so's.

 

I just hope if he does leave her you stay away from him until he gets the divorce finalized.

 

Too many MM file but go back and forth... hurting both women even MORE!

 

But if you started again AFTER he's divorced - you would start again knowing he is an available man at that point.

 

He should be seeing a counselor - to sift through all his crap -and so that he doesn't bring it all into the relationship if he ends up with you.

 

 

What's HE doing to make himself a better man?

[elaine567]

No, I think he really is on the brink of tossing one of us aside and I fully expect it to be me. If he were going to leave her, he would have done it and I would have heard from him that he was in the last 8 hours. His last message to me 4 hours ago said "I truly love you darling, always have and always will. This morning may possibly be our last memory of each other - time will tell. I promise not to drag this out much longer - for everyone involved".

 

Yes I agree "I truly love you darling, always have and always will" sounds pretty final, but "time will tell" and "I promise not to drag this out much longer" keeps a chink open, which is really unfair to you.

I guess he is keeping his options open, in case she chucks him out, sorry to say.

[BaileyB]

He stayed over night with you on the night of your birthday?

 

Where did his wife think he was? And, if she knew he was with you - why would she ever take him back in the morning? What kind of a self respecting woman would do that...

[anika99]

I've been thinking of all the negatives in the last 7 hours since we parted and I know that even if he leaves, it will be an uphill climb. He may leave her and then go back as soon as the guilt kicks in. I'm not sure the roller coaster ride would come to an end. It would just be a different one. So why do I still want him? Why is my heart in pieces? Why do I hope he calls to say he was honest with her, even though I know that isn't likely?

 

Unfortunately this is very true. Right now just thinking of leaving is causing him guilt, just imagining how his life will change is causing him anxiety. If he ever actually does screw up enough courage to leave his guilt and anxiety will be 10 fold. He sounds like one of these MM who leave and then have a total break down within a few days or weeks when the reality of what they have done hits them. Then they go back home, tell the OW its' just for the kids or just until the house sells or whatever and the back and forth starts all over again. It's a nightmare for the OW.

[S2B]

Unfortunately this is very true. Right now just thinking of leaving is causing him guilt, just imagining how his life will change is causing him anxiety. If he ever actually does screw up enough courage to leave his guilt and anxiety will be 10 fold. He sounds like one of these MM who leave and then have a total break down within a few days or weeks when the reality of what they have done hits them. Then they go back home, tell the OW its' just for the kids or just until the house sells or whatever and the back and forth starts all over again. It's a nightmare for the OW.

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

That waffling just causes a whole new level of pain for both women... as if this "doing nothing" isn't causing enough pain now.

 

Ugh, just decide and take action already Dude... it doesn't get easier on anyone the longer you wait.

 

What does he think - that some magic ball is going to change it for him? That he's not going to hurt someone no matter what he chooses?

[PhoenixRising8]

He stayed over night with you on the night of your birthday?

 

Where did his wife think he was? And, if she knew he was with you - why would she ever take him back in the morning? What kind of a self respecting woman would do that...

 

He has stayed overnight the last 7 Saturdays and 4 weekday nights since the beginning of October, so 2 weeks after he dropped the separation bomb the first time. He goes to a friend's house to watch hockey or basketball is his story. Otherwise, when it's just dinner during the week, he's working late. She has asked on numerous occasions that he invite his friend "John" over for dinner, that he take the son with him and that he give her John's phone number and last name, which of course he refuses to do. She has asked numerous times if John is really Joanne but he denies of course. Wonder what she will think when he stops going to John's after last night.

[PhoenixRising8]

God the drama. I don’t know how you can stand it.

 

I have no idea. The anxiety has been so bad I've dropped 20 lbs. I've only just started eating somewhat regularly again the last week or so.

[BaileyB]

Unfortunately this is very true. Right now just thinking of leaving is causing him guilt, just imagining how his life will change is causing him anxiety. If he ever actually does screw up enough courage to leave his guilt and anxiety will be 10 fold. He sounds like one of these MM who leave and then have a total break down within a few days or weeks when the reality of what they have done hits them. Then they go back home, tell the OW its' just for the kids or just until the house sells or whatever and the back and forth starts all over again. It's a nightmare for the OW.

 

Agree. Be advised OP, there are women on this site who get their man, live together, get a dog, and then as time goes by and they start talking about buying a house, or getting married, or whatever other reason... the man decides that he can’t leave his family... the OW thought she had “won” her man, she thought they were moving forward and building a life together, only to find the rug has been pulled out from underneath them. This guy may well be one of those men. Be careful.

[S2B]

He has stayed overnight the last 7 Saturdays and 4 weekday nights since the beginning of October, so 2 weeks after he dropped the separation bomb the first time. He goes to a friend's house to watch hockey or basketball is his story. Otherwise, when it's just dinner during the week, he's working late. She has asked on numerous occasions that he invite his friend "John" over for dinner, that he take the son with him and that he give her John's phone number and last name, which of course he refuses to do. She has asked numerous times if John is really Joanne but he denies of course. Wonder what she will think when he stops going to John's after last night.

 

Ugh... more lies.

 

That's who he is at this point.

[PhoenixRising8]

Ugh... more lies.

 

That's who he is at this point.

 

I guess it is.

 

I don't get it. How does a man tell his wife he wants to separate and do everything possible in actions that he apparently has not done before, like stay out all night, including the night of her birthday, and not mean that he really and truly is not happy and wants out? Why tell both your kids you want to separate? What the hell is the point? If he were just trying to get the wife's attention, he got it 9 weeks ago. If he wanted his cake and to eat it, he would be more discreet and less overt. I wasn't making demands until he dropped the separation discussion. I just don't get it.

[PhoenixRising8]

Agree. Be advised OP, there are women on this site who get their man, live together, get a dog, and then as time goes by and they start talking about buying a house, or getting married, or whatever other reason... the man decides that he can’t leave his family... the OW thought she had “won” her man, she thought they were moving forward and building a life together, only to find the rug has been pulled out from underneath them. This guy may well be one of those men. Be careful.

 

Yes, I agree. The more I am thinking about it, the more I wonder how I can tolerate a lifetime of this indecisive behaviour. He has NO backbone. We are both senior level professionals who have to make decisions every day, sometimes tough ones. I have no idea how he makes any decisions at work.

[S2B]

Well - you may not want to hear this suggestion - but:

 

Start making LOADS of demands! Seriously!

 

You will find out if he REALLY intends to change his marital status when you start making demands aplenty!

 

He will either get in it or he will retreat back to her.

 

If nothing else - it will allow you to take charge of your future IF he's just intending to waste your time spewing empty promises.

 

 

FWIW - I still don't think his wife has any idea he wants to divorce.

 

 

I just don't think he's clean clear with her - especially if he's lying to her about where he's been going when he's with you.

 

If he intends to divorce - why doesn't he get completely honest?

 

"I'm staying with Joanne because I don't want to continue this marriage" is all it would take...but he hasn't been honest ENOUGH.

 

He may tell you he is - but obviously he's not since she thinks he's over at his friend's house.

[PhoenixRising8]

<snip<

FWIW - I still don't think his wife has any idea he wants to divorce.

I just don't think he's clean clear with her - especially if he's lying to her about where he's been going when he's with you.

If he intends to divorce - why doesn't he get completely honest?

"I'm staying with Joanne because I don't want to continue this marriage" is all it would take...but he hasn't been honest ENOUGH.

He may tell you he is - but obviously he's not since she thinks he's over at his friend's house.

 

I'm pretty sure she has a clue - no one can be THAT dense. The fact she has asked about someone else repeatedly says she knows. She even told him that her father had an affair and her parents worked through it.

 

He has told his kids and best friends (just 2 weeks ago) that he wants a separation - conversations I personally heard him have. I don't get what the point of those conversations was if he had no intent and hadn't discussed it with her. He actually told people close to her.

 

As for demands, no I'm not making anymore. I have made some demands and he's complied with all except the last and most important one. I've told him he is being cruel to everyone and he needs to make a choice. I'm not making anymore. The fact I haven't heard from him in over 6 hours says a lot IMO. He didn't have the wherewithal to tell her.

 

And no, no demands because I am angry. We saw each other Friday evening also and he didn't get home til midnight (at John's again). We got into it then. We got into it Saturday and this morning. He ruined the evening before my birthday, my birthday and the day after. He ruined my entire weekend. It's bad enough I am alone in this city, my daughter moved hundreds of miles away, my ex still gives me grief every so often, including today, Jim ruins my entire birthday weekend. It is an unforgettable birthday and not in a good way.

Edited November 19, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote

[S2B]

I'm curious why he has told her he wants a separation?

 

Why wouldn't he state he wants a divorce?

 

A separation puts all this in a holding pattern - that won't accomplish anything much different than it is now.

 

What was his reason for that baby step?

[PhoenixRising8]

I'm curious why he has told her he wants a separation?

 

Why wouldn't he state he wants a divorce?

 

A separation puts all this in a holding pattern - that won't accomplish anything much different than it is now.

 

What was his reason for that baby step?

 

Because you can't get a divorce without being separated for at least 1 year and have an agreement for division of assets in place.