Never thought I'd be an OW (long post)

[anika99]

It isn't finalized but it is still a possibility. Walk away I believe is Hawaii. I don't think I can deal with that. That will be too much to swallow.

 

So if he doesn't go to Hawaii how long are you going to hang on waiting?

[PhoenixRising8]

He still has you on that string, waiting...

 

 

I am confused, he is showing you texts of him refusing to come home to her, yet they are dining and dancing on NYE.

Has he left or is he staying with friends or is he still at home?

 

He's still at home apparently getting some financial things in order. As for NYE apparently he is just trying to keep the peace over the holidays. The kids went also.

 

And no, he doesn't have me on a string waiting. I am in Europe having fun with my girls. The only expectation I have is that he will stay exactly where he is.

[PhoenixRising8]

So if he doesn't go to Hawaii how long are you going to hang on waiting?

 

I'm in Europe until mid January. At the moment I am having major issues with my narcissist ex, who waited till I arrived in Europe to harass and threaten me yet again, so his leaving or staying is not exactly top of mind.

[PhoenixRising8]

Going out for dinner and dancing on New Years is not unreasonable. It may not be their "usual," but I would be careful to make any assumptions.

 

I really hope that you are enjoying your trip. Be sure you are not missing out on a wonderful opportunity because you are focused on a dead-end relationship - that would be such a waste of your time and energy.

 

Having a blast, thanks. More focussed on my ex who's harassing me yet again.

[sagamore]

He took her out to dinner and dancing on NYE while he’s supposedly just staying to get some financial things in order? That sounds an awful lot like going to Hawaii to prove the relationship is dead. Where’s the head-smacking smilie when you need it??

 

None of this makes any sense. And it has to be terribly lonely for you as well as his W. One minute he’s texting her “it may be over” and the next he’s taking her out for a romantic night out? At BEST he is sending her very mixed signals. There’s no way he’s planning for an anti-climactic exit. If anything, he is only heightening the drama.

 

And even if he did exit, what then? He’s really going to move in with you when you’ve been kept a secret? If he’s scared now of how his adult kids and wife and sick dog will react to his leaving - what then? How will they contact him? And he’s going to move super far away from work and commute from your place? None of this has been planned out. Nada. This is a complete dead end.

 

I’m sorry for your pain and the harassment from your ex. You would be much better served sending this MM a breakup text, blocking him everywhere and then focusing on helping your daughter heal from what has happened to her. This MM is just a feckless, useless distraction from what’s really important in your life.

[BaileyB]

I’m sorry for your pain and the harassment from your ex. You would be much better served sending this MM a breakup text, blocking him everywhere. This MM is just a useless distraction from what’s really important in your life.

 

I could not agree more. If you are dealing with problems with your ex-husband... I'm honestly not sure why you would want to sign on with a new man, especially one who brings just as many problems coming in as the man who is on his way out...

 

No, thank you. I think I would be very happy with the single life for a very long time...

[anika99]

I also agree. Your MM sounds just as toxic as your ex. Not sure why you think he is a prize, he's just another unhealthy disturbed man.

 

Also I'm curious about something. From reading this thread I understand that your ex's unpardonable sin was that he told your daughter the truth about him not being her biological father. I mentioned I went through a similar scenario with my ex and my son. It was my ex's idea to raise my son as his own and conceal the truth from him. Then when my son was around 11 my ex just suddenly blurted out the truth and told my son he wasn't his biological father. Yes, my son was terribly upset as was I and I was so pissed at my ex. But only because he told without telling me he was going to do so, because he gave me no say in the matter and he didn't allow me any input into how my son would be told. He was just a kid still and I would have wanted to be there to see that he was told in a careful loving way.

 

However I always knew that my son was going to have to be told the truth at some point. He had right to know and if I had it to do all over again I never would have deceived him in the first place. I was not angry at my ex for telling the truth I just didn't like the way he handled it. By reading the little you have said on the matter I gather that even as an adult your daughter didn't know and you had no plans to tell her. Why is that? The truth can be painful in the short term but it's usually better in the long run. Yes I had to deal with an emotional upset little boy for a while. There were tears for everyone and some anger and confusion for my son. It was no picnic but all in all it was better to have it out in the open.

 

And it wasn't the end of the world for anyone. We all reached a state of acceptance and forgiveness. My son grew up fine and he and my ex are still close. They still view each other as father and son even though my son knows that's not his biological father. I would be miserable if I was still trying to maintain that lie and I would feel horrible at still do deceiving my son. So I guess that's just my long winded way of asking: don't you think it's better that your daughter know the truth?

[elaine567]

I'm in Europe until mid January. At the moment I am having major issues with my narcissist ex, who waited till I arrived in Europe to harass and threaten me yet again, so his leaving or staying is not exactly top of mind.

 

Can't you not just block him?

What is he threatening you with?

[PhoenixRising8]

I also agree. Your MM sounds just as toxic as your ex. Not sure why you think he is a prize, he's just another unhealthy disturbed man.<snip>

 

Rarely is it the what ... it's the how. Every situation is different.

 

He and I were in the middle of discussing separation when he became verbally abusive, to which my daughter was witness. She had just come out of a mentally abusive relationship and after years of siding with him, because he was that manipulative he was able to drive a wedge between us, he allowed her to witness his true behaviour, something he never did before. He was always careful to be kind and loving towards me in front of her and then behind my back he would complain about me. She always thought I was the "bad guy" and her relationship was better with him than me because he convinced her I was the depressed, unstable one with BPD.

 

He didn't actually tell her. He said a couple of sentences which were suggestive but not outright saying anything that told her the truth. Then he stopped. When she asked him to continue, he said "ask your mother" to which I said he should finish what he started, I'm not in his head to know what he was thinking. She looked at me and asked if she was adopted to which I said I have pictures to prove I birthed her. Then she asked if she was a sperm bank baby, not did I have her before him, or whether I had an affair and she was the result. She knew that an affair was not something I would become involved it because of my strong moral compass to that point.

 

I had a choice to make in that instant. I could lie and give him a big lie to hold over my head to use against at some point of his choosing to show what a bad person I am and drive a bigger wedge between us, or I could tell her the truth in the worst circumstances possible. I chose the truth. She initially said she was happy he wasn't her father because of what a mean, psychologically abusive person he is. Then she felt her identity and family was pulled out from under her. Her cousin found out, and through her, others of his family. NONE of them have since reached out to her to reassure her or reaffirm she is every bit a part of his family as she ever was.

 

He had dropped hints to her for years, always during arguments with one of us. I often thought we should tell her but he thought there was no point. He only was ever tempted into spilling when he was angry. Although I didn't agree, I didn't want to tell her without him because I thought it should be a joint discussion where we could reassure her, not during fights.

 

So it is the how that it unforgivable. It was done with malicious intent, to hurt me and he didn't give a damned about the impact to her in that moment. He didn't give a crap about dragging an innocent person into his vendetta with me. He wanted to do maximum damage to me. She saw right through it and hates him, so much she has refused his initial apology to which he got angry with her and said it wasn't the end of the world and she should "get over it". That just further incensed her. She refuses to speak to him since, except to defend me when she is witness to his abusiveness towards me. Then she will defend me, tooth and nail. The ONLY good thing to come out of this is It brought us closer together but he has lost her. After her experience with her ex, she has no tolerance for abusive behaviour. He lost both of us in one instant and he knows it.

 

He has made overtures towards reconciliation with me but I have refused. The fact that a reconciliation would be something my daughter would not forgive me has played a part, I won't lie but the driving factor is I won't be subjected to his emotional abuse the rest of my life. He spent Christmas without his family while I spent it with my daughter and her boyfriend's family. I suppose that is what has precipitated his latest attack. In the last month he has started to track my comings and goings through the credit card. I didn't charge a limo to the airport and I didn't call or text when I arrived in Europe so that brought out the nasty in him in this latest spate of attacks against me. The only thing left for him to hold over me is the settlement. He thinks he has the upper hand but he may be surprised. I'm finished getting upset, I'm getting even.

 

You can say what you will about MM but once again, he has been supportive. He knew instinctively there was something wrong and he called to console me. I don't agree with how he is handling his marriage but I truly do believe he is stuck in a place where he is deciding which will hurt less: leaving the marriage or us. I was there 6 months ago. I might still be there but for my ex's actions. His BS is nowhere near as vile. The physical time we have spent apart has been difficult for him, I believe as much as on me. But it has to be because a PA is not what I want the rest of my life and he gets that. I have no expectations he will suddenly leave. Leaving is difficult and often precipitated by a major event such as the one I experienced and he's not likely to. But he has also been a true friend and source of strength and reason. I honestly don't know how I would have made it through without his shoulder to cry on and selfishly, I'm not ready to give that up just yet.

Edited January 2, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote

[PhoenixRising8]

Can't you not just block him?

What is he threatening you with?

 

Financial ruin is all he is threatening. He has nothing else so he's using what's left. It would be one thing if all he wanted was half the assets (which includes my significant inheritance because I was young and naive enough to put it in the matrimonial home) but he also wants half my pay check. Given the significant age difference, were he to get support, which he doesn't need, he would be in a much better financial position. He could live his current lifestyle off the proceeds of the property division. I would never recover and would have a hard time retiring in 7-10 years. He has already been retired for a decade. He wouldn't need half my pay but he will go after it just to ensure I pay for the rest of his miserable life. He would rather burn money fighting than maturely reach a conclusion just so he can ensure I suffer long term.

Edited January 2, 2019 by LilKatKat

[elaine567]

Financial ruin is all he is threatening. He has nothing else so he's using what's left. It would be one thing if all he wanted was half the assets but he also wants half my pay check. Given the significant age difference, were he to get support, which he doesn't need, he would be in a much better financial position. He could live his current lifestyle off the proceeds of the property division. I would never recover and would have a hard time retiring in 7-10 years. He has already been retired for a decade. He wouldn't need half my pay but he will go after it just to ensure I pay for the rest of his miserable life. He would rather burn money fighting than maturely reach a conclusion just so he can ensure I suffer long term.

What does your lawyer say, is that a realistic possibility?

[PhoenixRising8]

What does your lawyer say, is that a realistic possibility?

 

Yes, unfortunately it is. The only hope I have is that he continues to make me suffer and pulls some stupid moves like cancelling my credit card while I'm abroad or disconnecting utilities while I'm away as he holds all the accounts.

[anika99]

Thanks for explaining the situation with your daughter. I totally understand why you are so angry at your ex. My ex did not tell my son because he was out to get me. My son had asked him why he didn't pay child support for him and my ex couldn't think of an answer that wouldn't make him like an ass other than to tell my son the truth.

 

But I still disagree that your MM is better than your ex. His behaviour is appalling, he is being cruel to both you and his wife. He is playing mind f**k games with both of you. He tells his wife that he doesn't love her but he is still there. He tells you his marriage is over and yet he is going out for dinner with his wife and they might be going to Hawaii together. Nothing he says matches his actions. His intent may not be malicious, just self centered, but you wind up being hurt just the same.

 

This affair and all the games he is playing is very unhealthy for you. The drama alone is majorly dysfunctional and it won't end even if he leaves. You have gone from having one toxic relationship right to another toxic relationship. Spend at least a couple of years being free and single so that you can get to know yourself outside the context of being with a man and so that you can gain some wisdom when it comes to picking a man.

[elaine567]

You have gone from having one toxic relationship right to another toxic relationship.

Which is very common and no coincidence...

 

a) you are starved of affection and love, so you are quickly enamoured with any man who shows the least bit of kindness and care... you are easy prey...

 

b) Users, liars, manipulators, abusers and all sorts of toxic people are on the look out for those who are weak, who are vulnerable, those who are people pleasers, those who are nice people, those who have just left bad marriages and relationships, those whose radar is faulty...

All make great "victims" for the unscrupulous...

[PhoenixRising8]

Thanks for explaining the situation with your daughter. I totally understand why you are so angry at your ex. My ex did not tell my son because he was out to get me. My son had asked him why he didn't pay child support for him and my ex couldn't think of an answer that wouldn't make him like an ass other than to tell my son the truth.

 

But I still disagree that your MM is better than your ex. His behaviour is appalling, he is being cruel to both you and his wife. He is playing mind f**k games with both of you. He tells his wife that he doesn't love her but he is still there. He tells you his marriage is over and yet he is going out for dinner with his wife and they might be going to Hawaii together. Nothing he says matches his actions. His intent may not be malicious, just self centered, but you wind up being hurt just the same.

 

This affair and all the games he is playing is very unhealthy for you. The drama alone is majorly dysfunctional and it won't end even if he leaves. You have gone from having one toxic relationship right to another toxic relationship. Spend at least a couple of years being free and single so that you can get to know yourself outside the context of being with a man and so that you can gain some wisdom when it comes to picking a man.

 

I believe we BOTH made the same wrong choice in how to deal with our dissatisfaction with our marriages. Neither of us intended to leave our spouses. Mine happened as a result of that fateful day the ex decided to hurt my daughter.

 

Maybe MM is self centred but he does have a difficult decision: leave the woman he's been with for 30 years or leave the woman he says he loves. Maybe I'm making excuses for him but I do know that until that fateful day, I couldn't leave even though I wanted to.

 

As for NYE, it wasn't just the two of them. The kids went also so it was a family thing. Hardly what I call romantic. Yes I know they went because the picture is right there on Facebook.

 

As for Hawaii, that one I struggle with. They would be going with their best friends Dick and Jane both of whom understand he has gone through a lot with BS but believe he should stick it out anyway. Doesn't help that MM works for Dick's company so is concerned about his career. He hopes that everyone, including BS, will see its dead and accept it more readily. In his mind, it makes sense.

 

I think he's crazy if he thinks she will just accept it isn't working and just say Ok go ahead dear, you can leave me now, and I told him so. I think he and she will negatively impact the other couple's vacation at best. If BS makes seduction attempts over the course of 10 or 12 days that he rejects, it will not be pretty. If he succumbs, there will be some major hysterical bonding going on. Which is why I fully expect he will stay where he is. I have no illusions. I hold out no hope. I'm not waiting for it. I don't expect it.

 

At the moment maybe I'm being the selfish one using him for comfort as I have during the previous bad episodes.

[Dreamer2017]

Maybe you should ask your husband to post here. I would like to hear his side.

 

Dreamer

[S2B]

He's still at home apparently getting some financial things in order. As for NYE apparently he is just trying to keep the peace over the holidays. The kids went also.

 

And no, he doesn't have me on a string waiting. I am in Europe having fun with my girls. The only expectation I have is that he will stay exactly where he is.

 

Yet his actions show his intent.

 

He is at the house with her. He went out with HER on NYE.

 

No one needs this much time to "get things in order"!

 

I had plenty to organize - and it was ALL doneand finished being "in order" by the end of three days! When any person wants to get things in order they do it! And it gets done right away!

 

After that weekend he cheated - the ONLY thing left to deal with was selling the house.

 

Going ANYWHERE with him would have sent the wrong message - so I didn't go anywhere with him!

 

 

Your MM isn't leaving his wife. Stop thinking he might - he's just a continual liar.

 

He has NO evidence he's leaving her!

[elaine567]

Yes, unfortunately it is. The only hope I have is that he continues to make me suffer and pulls some stupid moves like cancelling my credit card while I'm abroad or disconnecting utilities while I'm away as he holds all the accounts.

 

 

Oh dear, that must be a bit of a worry for you.

 

Do you live somewhere were frost and burst pipes may be an issue? Anyone you know who could pop in and make sure all is well...

[anika99]

I would get the utilities switched into your own name ASAP. When I broke up my last serious relationship my cell phone was on my ex's account. I called the cell company and they said I could take start my own account and take over ownership of my phone services but I needed my ex to consent to it and he wouldn't. So for six months I had to meet with him every month to pay him for my phone. That sucked.

[PhoenixRising8]

Maybe you should ask your husband to post here. I would like to hear his side.

 

Dreamer

 

He would tell you that I was the one that told our daughter about her parentage and leave out all the detail. The fact she refuses to speak to him and holds him responsible should tell you all you need to know.

 

He would tell you I don't know how to communicate with him and that's why our marriage broke down. He'd forget to tell you that he would totally shut down and freeze me out if he didn't like what I had to say.

 

He would tell you I'm a frigid beatch who withheld sex for 10 years and he couldn't take it any more.

 

I could go on but in short, he would take no responsibility because isn't that what narcissists do? And no, I won't invite him, but thanks for the suggestion.

Edited January 2, 2019 by LilKatKat

[PhoenixRising8]

Oh dear, that must be a bit of a worry for you.

 

Do you live somewhere were frost and burst pipes may be an issue? Anyone you know who could pop in and make sure all is well...

 

Yes, it is now cold where I live.

[PhoenixRising8]

I would get the utilities switched into your own name ASAP. When I broke up my last serious relationship my cell phone was on my ex's account. I called the cell company and they said I could take start my own account and take over ownership of my phone services but I needed my ex to consent to it and he wouldn't. So for six months I had to meet with him every month to pay him for my phone. That sucked.

 

I intend to do just that when I return. Not much I can do at the moment.

[PhoenixRising8]

Yet his actions show his intent.

 

He is at the house with her. He went out with HER on NYE.

 

No one needs this much time to "get things in order"!

 

I had plenty to organize - and it was ALL doneand finished being "in order" by the end of three days! When any person wants to get things in order they do it! And it gets done right away!

 

After that weekend he cheated - the ONLY thing left to deal with was selling the house.

 

Going ANYWHERE with him would have sent the wrong message - so I didn't go anywhere with him!

 

 

Your MM isn't leaving his wife. Stop thinking he might - he's just a continual liar.

 

He has NO evidence he's leaving her!

 

Yes. NYE pictures show just how unhappy he is ...

[Starswillshine]

Yes. NYE pictures show just how unhappy he is ...

 

Unless he was crying in the photo, how can you know this? I have had friends tell me that my new BF looks so much happier in his photos with me and looked miserable in the photos with his ex. I look at the photos and he looks exactly the same. I think people project and see what they want to see. Yes, he was miserable. People thought I was happy in my photos with my ex... except I was miserable.

 

A picture of a moment in time doesnt say much. I think you are grasping at anything that can give you hope. You are free to do so, or doesnt affect any of us, but it keeps your anguish going.

 

Best wishes. I hope soon you push this jerk aside. Always waiting for "tomorrow" is awful.

[sagamore]

“Unhappy” and “going to leave” are two totally different states of being, LKK. You know this. This man is unhappy, no doubt. But he’s not going to leave.