Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 I really love the fact that he has been carrying on an affair behind his wife’s back for almost a year now and he still doesn’t see himself as “the bad guy.” There is absolutely no guilt, remorse, responsibility, or accountability in that statement. The fact that he waits for her to make a decision about the marriage and will not speak his truth because he doesn’t want to be perceived as the bad guy shows just how conflict avoidant and spineless he really is... The other thing his comment makes me think, if he does not want to be perceived as “the bad guy,” that means when this all comes out somebody will have to take the blame - and it’s going to have to be you Kat. Sagamore gave you some good advice earlier. Read it again, and take it. If there is guilt or remorse, it's fleeting at best. And yes, I will likely end up the bad guy, no doubt. Should make for a happy life together ... not. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 He doesn’t want to be the bad guy. Finally, an honest statement! But guess what? If he leaves, he’s the bad guy. And what happens WHEN she finds out about you after he leaves? You don’t think she can put two and two together? She will barrage him with calls and texts and unhappiness. And do you REALLY think this weak-a** man-child can withstand that? He’ll take it out on YOU and return home. For a smart woman, LKK, you don’t seem to have given a moment’s thought to what happens after he leaves and how implausible it is that it all works out. Here’s what you should do between now and April (your next fake deadline, because after January I refuse to believe you - sorry for the tough love but it’s true): 1. Get a new, professional therapist who doesn’t cross boundaries by telling YOU about his love life (yes, yes, I know you like him and you’re used to him - but I think we’ve proven that your “picker” is seriously off). This idiot is enabling your bad decisions. Dump him. Next: 2. Get on meetup.com or go to some local events and MAKE SOME FRIENDS. Doesn’t matter if it feels forced or they aren’t best friends for the long term. Just make some friends you can actually go out with so that your WHOLE SOCIAL LIFE doesn’t revolve around this man. And then: 3. Spend some time thinking - really thinking - about what kind of example you are setting for your daughter. And what kind of man she deserves in her life as a surrogate father-figure. Honestly, you are failing her as well as yourself right now with your low self-esteem and lack of boundaries. She just had her world blown up. She should not be Mommy’s support system for getting out of an affair. There aren’t enough head-smacking smilies in the world for this! Toughen up, LKK. You have work in front of you. But you can do it. I've read your post a few times since you sent it. Man-child really is an apt description. I am truly beginning to understand why their marriage failed/is failing. He avoids being open then when he decides HE needs to do something, he does it. No explanation, no discussion, no mutual decision making. It's not how I operate. I explain my thoughts and concerns, ask for the other person's point of view and then ask for their support if my view differs, making sure they understand the rationale for the difference. It's what I want from my partner. It's what I didn't get from the ex either. You are correct about my daughter. Her world has been blown up and she does deserve a worthy male figure. She has already told me that while she likes him, she doesn't respect him for his lack of spine. This too gives me huge concern as she can be quite direct and cutting when she doesn't respect someone. That doesn't bode well for our future. As for getting out and doing things, this week I started to do research on area hiking and cycling clubs as these are things I enjoy. I am starting to take things into my own hands. They may be small steps, but they are steps in the right direction nonetheless. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 As for getting out and doing things, this week I started to do research on area hiking and cycling clubs as these are things I enjoy. I am starting to take things into my own hands. They may be small steps, but they are steps in the right direction nonetheless. Good for you Kat. This is very positive. Nothing clears the mind and gives you the opportunity to think things through like walking and cycling outside. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 What do you mean by “dictating to you”? Since the phone incident I have been thinking how it may not be in anyone's best interest that he spend every weekend staying over as he has to date. He was oblivious to the fact she tried to break in until I pointed it out. I was enabling him to keep the status quo by being more careful about his phone. And I didn't want him to be thrown out because he is cheating. I prefer he leave on his own, if he is so inclined. We didn't talk about it but he assumed I thought he was coming over and staying the night. So this morning he said he'd love to see a movie with me tonight but he will go home. She has been texting him when he stays that she can't sleep and then is disrupted the next day or two. No poop Sherlock! I would be too. He never told me about those texts but I did actually see one of them, unbeknownst to him so I wasn't surprised. What I would expect from someone who is planning a future with me is to have told me about the texts. If he started to think he needed to be discreet for the time being, I would have expected him to then discuss with me and get my thoughts on best way forward. I might have said something like "son is just finishing his program in next few weeks. I want to keep the peace until then. I know we spend the weekends together but can you bear with me for a few weeks until that's done so he can finish without having to deal with his mother's angst. What are you thinking? Do you understand where I'm coming from?" Instead, he stays closed then just tells me what will happen. If this is how his marriage played out, small wonder he is where he is. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) Kat, both you and his wife are on a “need to know” basis. And the person who decides what you “need to know,” is your MM. This is not an equal partnership. Affairs are by their very nature an unbalanced power dynamic. He holds all the cards... the wife and the OW are both players in the game, but he is holding all the cards... Edited February 23, 2019 by BaileyB Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) I'm starting to get that. I'm also realizing that if I were the one he wanted as a life partner, and knowing our circumstance, he would want to give me a sense of comfort by sharing information and discussing what affects us all. Obviously neither BS nor I matter enough for him to do this. Call it a lightbulb moment. Edited February 23, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator quote removed Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 There is the error in your thought process Kat. You are trying to have an equal partnership with a man when he is not capable of doing that - for two reasons. For obvious reasons, he can’t be an equal partner to you because he is obligated to another woman. Furthermore, he doesn’t have a fair and equitable partnership with his wife (how can he, when he is carrying on doing all kinds of inappropriate things behind her back). What makes you think he would be any diffeeent with you. I think you are starting to appreciate what it feels like to be his wife... you are starting to see why they have difficulties in their marriage and that perhaps, there is more to consider than the fact that he is no longer physically attracted her and they have simply grown apart... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Seems to me he thought he had it all covered, but the phone thing shocked him and now he is wanting to play safer, or Hawaii did in fact bring them closer and now he trying to be nicer to her by going home. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Timshel Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 You just mad at the moment...lol, you'll get over it, as usual. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 That’s helpful and supportive and useful. Thanks. Have a nice day. Link to post Share on other sites
Timshel Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 It's the truth, katKat. You have traded one a** for another, you are extremely lonely. Prove us wrong, I would love nothing better. You are in a terrible place and do not know how to get out. Posting here has almost enabled you with the perpetual drama that is your life as mistress...the highs and lows and 'support' are transfixed on your dysfunctional relationship with this man. You are using him to avoid yourself. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BTDT2012 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 He would rather just deal with it without putting me In the position of being the home wrecker because if they had been solid, there would not have been an "us". Marriages don't cheat. People cheat. You got the strength to leave. His interest is maintaining the status quo. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 It's the truth, katKat. You have traded one a** for another, you are extremely lonely. Prove us wrong, I would love nothing better. You are in a terrible place and do not know how to get out. Posting here has almost enabled you with the perpetual drama that is your life as mistress...the highs and lows and 'support' are transfixed on your dysfunctional relationship with this man. You are using him to avoid yourself. Yes I am in a terrible place of my own making. And contrary to what you think I don’t find this thread enabling. Far from. It’s been a splash of ice cold water in many respects. If not for some of the harsh truths that played out as predicted I might still be buying the koolaid. Instead I’m making headway, maybe slowly but surely. Link to post Share on other sites
Timshel Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Ok, you are taking the long painful road. There is a big, vivid whole world outside of all the angst (of your own making.) One day you will look back and cringe at the time and worry for this 'relationship.' Even if you are able to 'win' this no-prize man away from his wife, you'll still cringe woman, because at the end of the day, he is not what you need. Best LilKatKat. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Snipercatt Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 As for the dating site while married, I felt it was hypocritical of me to hold that against him given i did the exact same thing. Now I realize our motivation was likely very different. No doubt, your motivations were different. He was looking for “conflict avoidant” entertainment, and distraction, and you were/are looking for companionship and partnership. I don’t think that changes regardless with whom he is married (or single, for that matter). It is is astonishing that he repeatedly, with her, and with you, does a wrong thing and expects a right result. It is smack your forehead confounding to anyone of average, or better, intelligence. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
sagamore Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 LKK, I’m glad you were able to “hear” my post and have been mulling it over. Hiking and cycling clubs sound like a great step! I’m not much of a cyclist but I love hiking. Great exercise and great way to connect with people. Keep us updated. Let me give you one more piece of food for thought. Don’t wait until April, when your daughter is home. Why? Because she doesn’t deserve to see you go through the worst of it and have to be your support system. She may not be a minor still, but she needs a mom, not a girlfriend to cry on her shoulder. Be her mom. Get your own support system and start actively detaching from this man. If you can’t do this for yourself, do it for her. She basically has one parent now. You’re it. Be the parent she needs and commit to placing only healthy role models in her life from now on. You’ll look back and be proud you did. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 Did you allow him to come see you this weekend? I saw him last night. I'm out of town now but it doesn't matter where I am because I think we are done and I feel like crap ? Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 I was thinking you could have a calm discussion with him that allows him to understand that you feel you have crossed your healthy boundary by participating on an OW level. And that you need to end all communication unles his divorce is finalized you don’t plan to communicate any further. This helps him understand you’ve made a stance - based on your principles/value system. It really maps out what you will and won’t tolerate moving forward. Can you consider being that honest with him in order to gain your self respect back? I was very honest with him last night. I told him I believed him whe he said he was leaving and I kept believing. I told him I couldn't keep going on like this. It always another month or two and now we are past 5 months. It's always something that comes up. Timing isn't right. Someone has a hangnail he has to fix. If he's waiting for a good time when all the stars align and everyone calmly accepts the split, it will never happen. We got into it this morning and our messaging while I was on the train deteriorated. His silence to my last 2 messages seems to tell me he doesn't care. Guess deep down A part of me thought he did. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I’m sorry. I truly am sorry for your pain. If anything, this past month tells you that he will probably be back. When he cools down, he will come crawling back. Be prepared. The question is, will you pick up the phone? Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 I won’t be contacting him and I doubt he will contact me. I told him he was a lying cheater and a user. I also told him my daughter and I deserve better in our lives. I wondered how he sleeps at night or lives with himself. How he can take someone at their most vulnerable and use them for his own purposes is despicable. Yes I said all this and more. No one believed me I was reaching the end of the road. Well I was. And when I’m done, I’m done. And I am well and truly done. Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Wow, good for you! Link to post Share on other sites
assertives Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Yes. You and your daughter both deserve better in your lives! I hope you will resist contacting him or entertaining him again when he tries to make contact in future. For what it's worth, if he had really intended to divorce, he would have at least taken steps to make preparations, such as removing his name from joint accounts, packing his stuff, seeing a lawyer, etc. But other than telling his wife he wants to separate and throwing tantrums, he hasn't done squat. He doesn't even have a time line to when he was going to start ****. There was no plan no execution no nothing. He was trying to be a complete a$$ to his wife hoping to force her to file for a divorce instead of having to say it himself. I would say even if he does gets a divorce down the road, think twice if this is the man you want to spend the rest of your life with. He has shown you how he treated his wife in bad times and continued to lie to her. He might get a little more respect if he had handled the situation a little more maturely and honorably. But all he did was disrespect his wife, lie to her, share her private intimate letters to him with you, and talk disparagingly about her looks and everything about her to someone else. Some things that are shared within a relationship should be kept that way even after the relationship has ended. Please take some time to heal and get to know yourself better and love yourself more. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) I seriously doubt he will make any effort to contact me. I told him he was no prize and she's welcome to him. I told him he showed unmitigated gall in telling me he didn't want me to date while he stayed married. I told him despite what he says, I probably wasn't his first and I doubt I would be the last. I counselled him not to tell the next one he is leaving. I wished him a miserable life because that's all he deserves. I also told him I deserve better than an epic lying cheater who would likely end up treating me the same way he is treating his wife. I doubt after all of that he will have the guts to contact me again and if he does, maybe he really loves me Honestly, he could be the last man on earth and I wouldn't look at him again. I was alone in a marriage and it's lonelier than actually being alone. If the only men I can chose are so vile, I'd rather be alone. I traded in a narcissistic ********* for a spineless man-child who did everything possible to disrupt his family but didn't want to leave so he wouldn't disrupt them!!! I am in awe of his lack of self awareness, his selfishness and his unmitigated gall. And yes, I believe he was trying to get her to throw him out but she didn't. Now he's trying to appease her. I guess because I finally found my backbone again and started pushing. They're both conflict avoidant and I guess he doesn't know how to deal with someone who confronts conflict in the end. I myself will bend over backwards to please and appease until I've had enough, and I have. Edited February 25, 2019 by LilKatKat Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I'm glad you took a stand Kat. I'm really sorry you have to hurt. This sucks. Hugs. And no, if he contacts you again, it does not mean he really loves you. Unless he is separated and filed for divorce. It just means he has zero respect for you and certainly doesnt believe the words you say as you have told him before you say one thing but mean another. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I doubt after all of that he will have the guts to contact me again and if he does, maybe he really loves me Most MM it seems to me do not want to let go of their OW, no matter what happens. Some have such a big ego that they refuse to believe she will ever leave, so even if she says "I am done", he will keep pounding on her door until she lets him in again... Your man had an nice little "arrangement" set up there, so he will not want to let go of that easily. Is that "love"? Who knows? (((Hugs))) Link to post Share on other sites
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